Lion King Posted October 5 Posted October 5 On 10/2/2025 at 10:26 AM, GeoBrick said: Still, I'm happy LEGO made the effort. I ended up with 2 copies, a PAB haul of the printed elements that came with the set and a couple extra Blacktron torso's. I would be happy to get some printed elements, Blacktron minifigure parts, nothing else. I don’t Iike that set. Anyways, I am not happy with US tariffs so I don’t think they show up on PAB. Quote
Commander Fenris Posted October 12 Posted October 12 Could anyone kindly summarise what the current rumours are about Space? I was expecting there would be more news on the 2024 Space theme, but have just heard nothing since the release of Modular Galactic Spaceship. Quote
Murdoch17 Posted October 12 Posted October 12 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Commander Fenris said: Could anyone kindly summarise what the current rumours are about Space? I was expecting there would be more news on the 2024 Space theme, but have just heard nothing since the release of Modular Galactic Spaceship. There are no rumors as of yet for any 2026 space sets as far as I know. Everything from 2024 space that is still for sale, including the 2025 modular spaceship, is going away at the end of the year. The also includes the Blacktron set. Edited October 12 by Murdoch17 Quote
Commander Fenris Posted October 12 Posted October 12 52 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said: There are no rumors as of yet for any 2026 space sets as far as I know. Everything from 2024 space that is still for sale, including the 2025 modular spaceship, is going away at the end of the year. The also includes the Blacktron set. Many thanks. I am a little sad that we haven't heard more news. If this was "Futuron 0", a kinda prequel, I was hoping for a "Blacktron 0" bad guy faction. Quote
a_clay_brick Posted October 15 Posted October 15 On 9/20/2025 at 10:28 AM, Black Falcon said: Are there any news or rumours on this? I am wondering if it just turned out to be something else, or if there is a chance we will still get it this year. Personally I still have some some Sets I want to buy that are going to retire this year, but so far there wasn´t really any GWP I was interested in. They didn´t even use the chance and used the existing Wolfpack minifigure to make a Wolfpack Renegades GWP. And so far rumours of future GWP aren´t really promissing either. Sorry for just seeing this. Last year when a source first mentioned the Blacktron Renegade to me, I asked Blacktron I or Blacktron II and he said "yellow/black one first, then black/white/green". I interpreted that as a Blacktron II set coming as well, but as you can tell its been about a year since then and no word, so either I misinterpreted, something changed, or it was just suuuuper advanced info. I'll keep you guys updated if I hear anything more. Quote
Black Falcon Posted October 15 Posted October 15 10 minutes ago, a_clay_brick said: Sorry for just seeing this. Last year when a source first mentioned the Blacktron Renegade to me, I asked Blacktron I or Blacktron II and he said "yellow/black one first, then black/white/green". I interpreted that as a Blacktron II set coming as well, but as you can tell its been about a year since then and no word, so either I misinterpreted, something changed, or it was just suuuuper advanced info. I'll keep you guys updated if I hear anything more. Thanks for answering anyways. So at least there is a chance they will come around with a Blacktron 2 Set for next year. And well, if not, I still think we have good chances that they keep doing this kind of sets, and if it is just one each year from either Castle/Pirates or Space. Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted October 15 Posted October 15 57 minutes ago, Black Falcon said: Thanks for answering anyways. So at least there is a chance they will come around with a Blacktron 2 Set for next year. And well, if not, I still think we have good chances that they keep doing this kind of sets, and if it is just one each year from either Castle/Pirates or Space. I guess the fear is the last two retiring so quickly means the line is cancelled as LEGO doesn't think it has legs Quote
Black Falcon Posted October 15 Posted October 15 49 minutes ago, Renny The Spaceman said: I guess the fear is the last two retiring so quickly means the line is cancelled as LEGO doesn't think it has legs I still like to belive, that they just are selling good when they are released but sales drop after the first months because most AFOLs that want them already bought them. But only Lego will know for sure. But eitherway, I don´t think they are selling that bad that they wouldn´t make any more sets like this. Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted October 15 Posted October 15 5 minutes ago, Black Falcon said: I still like to belive, that they just are selling good when they are released but sales drop after the first months because most AFOLs that want them already bought them. But only Lego will know for sure. But eitherway, I don´t think they are selling that bad that they wouldn´t make any more sets like this. Yeah, I hope it's that too but you're right, only LEGO knows we can only speculate Quote
Time77 Posted October 21 Posted October 21 On 10/15/2025 at 5:01 PM, Black Falcon said: I still like to belive, that they just are selling good when they are released but sales drop after the first months because most AFOLs that want them already bought them. But only Lego will know for sure. But eitherway, I don´t think they are selling that bad that they wouldn´t make any more sets like this. Personally, I bough six galaxy explorers because I thought it was such a good set (price, no stickers, great build, etc) and I've bough zero of the new renegades for the opposite reasons; I suspect I'm not the only one given the massive dip in quality between the two. Lego can take from that what they will. Quote
danth Posted October 21 Posted October 21 32 minutes ago, Time77 said: Personally, I bough six galaxy explorers because I thought it was such a good set (price, no stickers, great build, etc) and I've bough zero of the new renegades for the opposite reasons; I suspect I'm not the only one given the massive dip in quality between the two. Lego can take from that what they will. Similar story here, except I only bought 5 GEs, and bought 1 Renegade. I scooped up extra Renegade printed parts, minifigs, and windscreens on PAB too. I'm not above picking up another Renegade if it goes on sale, but it's just...so bad. Quote
Murdoch17 Posted October 21 Posted October 21 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Time77 said: Personally, I bough six galaxy explorers because I thought it was such a good set (price, no stickers, great build, etc) and I've bough zero of the new renegades for the opposite reasons; I suspect I'm not the only one given the massive dip in quality between the two. Lego can take from that what they will. I'm the opposite way - I preordered the GE, but sold it without building / opening it, whereas the Blacktron set is my favorite set of 2025, and has been modified by me to be even better! Edited October 21 by Murdoch17 Quote
Time77 Posted October 23 Posted October 23 (edited) On 10/21/2025 at 6:07 PM, Murdoch17 said: I'm the opposite way - I preordered the GE, but sold it without building / opening it, whereas the Blacktron set is my favorite set of 2025, and has been modified by me to be even better! I want to like the new-renegade (B-tron is cool and I've even built my own version of the ship), but it just looks like the C build of a 3-in-1 set. You talk about modifying it, but for me, at that point I might as well just start from scratch. Curious about how the GE lost your interest? Was it just the hype of 'spaaaacceship'? On 10/21/2025 at 6:06 PM, danth said: Similar story here, except I only bought 5 GEs, and bought 1 Renegade. I scooped up extra Renegade printed parts, minifigs, and windscreens on PAB too. I'm not above picking up another Renegade if it goes on sale, but it's just...so bad. I picked up a bunch of the figures on PAB after the blacktron GWP, but I had no idea that the renegade actually used prints (appears I'm conflating that part with the "Blacktron Cruiser"). Good to know Edited October 23 by Time77 Quote
danth Posted October 23 Posted October 23 15 minutes ago, Time77 said: I picked up a bunch of the figures on PAB after the blacktron GWP, but I had no idea that the renegade actually used prints (appears I'm conflating that part with the "Blacktron Cruiser"). Good to know Yep, the new Renegade is better as a parts pack than an actual set...other than having too many yellow bricks. The prints are really good, and the new yellow windscreen is a godsend. 17 minutes ago, Time77 said: but it just looks like the C build of a 3-in-1 set An apt description. I've described it as looking like a low-to-mid MOC. Quote
Black Falcon Posted October 23 Posted October 23 17 hours ago, Time77 said: Personally, I bough six galaxy explorers because I thought it was such a good set (price, no stickers, great build, etc) and I've bough zero of the new renegades for the opposite reasons; I suspect I'm not the only one given the massive dip in quality between the two. Lego can take from that what they will. To be fair, the Galaxy Explorer is a way easier build to make a set of - which doesn´t change that it was overall a really great design. The renegade however is quite unique in it´s design and a lot more difficult to make a new version of it IMO. Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted October 23 Posted October 23 3 hours ago, Black Falcon said: To be fair, the Galaxy Explorer is a way easier build to make a set of - which doesn´t change that it was overall a really great design. The renegade however is quite unique in it´s design and a lot more difficult to make a new version of it IMO. Definitely why it was controversial, no way you can do it and please everyone while making a structurally sound build out of modern parts. I never liked how bobbleheaded it looks, ever as it's going for 60 quid around here I just can't justify it, it takes up a lot of shelf space and doesn't look great from any angle IMO. I am biased though, I love ships with interiors, that are livable so the GE was always more up my speed than a 100 pound fighter craft Quote
danth Posted October 23 Posted October 23 4 hours ago, Black Falcon said: To be fair, the Galaxy Explorer is a way easier build to make a set of - which doesn´t change that it was overall a really great design. The renegade however is quite unique in it´s design and a lot more difficult to make a new version of it IMO. 1 hour ago, Renny The Spaceman said: Definitely why it was controversial, no way you can do it and please everyone while making a structurally sound build out of modern parts. I don't love reading excuses for why Lego sets aren't good, but I will gladly accept the admissions that the Renegade, in fact, isn't. I think this MOC, while having a different design and color scheme, captures the energy and menace of the original Renegade better than the new set. Especially the cockpit and wing area. I don't think anything about the original Renegade makes it "too unconventional" too update. This MOC has a similar unconventional design and looks amazing in modern bricks. Its wings actually look cool and not like messy afterthoughts. Quote
Black Falcon Posted October 23 Posted October 23 32 minutes ago, danth said: I don't love reading excuses for why Lego sets aren't good, but I will gladly accept the admissions that the Renegade, in fact, isn't. This is no excuse and actually I said the same when first rumours came up that we would get it. And I didn´t say that it is a bad set either. Was the Galaxy Explorer better? Yes it was. But that doesn´t make the Blacktron set bad. I bought both of them (and have yet to build them both) 32 minutes ago, danth said: I think this MOC, while having a different design and color scheme, captures the energy and menace of the original Renegade better than the new set. Especially the cockpit and wing area. I don't think anything about the original Renegade makes it "too unconventional" too update. This MOC has a similar unconventional design and looks amazing in modern bricks. Its wings actually look cool and not like messy afterthoughts. It is not that it was to unconventional to update. But IMO two things would have to be changed for that, first one would be that it would need more parts and the second it should have went further from the original model. While with the Galaxy Explorer keeping the flat parts flat worked, the Renegade would have benefited, if those parts would have been build so it actually looks like (or even better if it would have) an interior. Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted October 23 Posted October 23 1 hour ago, danth said: I don't love reading excuses for why Lego sets aren't good, but I will gladly accept the admissions that the Renegade, in fact, isn't. I think this MOC, while having a different design and color scheme, captures the energy and menace of the original Renegade better than the new set. Especially the cockpit and wing area. I don't think anything about the original Renegade makes it "too unconventional" too update. This MOC has a similar unconventional design and looks amazing in modern bricks. Its wings actually look cool and not like messy afterthoughts. ~snip~ This doesn't look anything like the set we're talking about? Like sure they could have made a symmetrical, completely differently shaped set that looks good but they also could have made a set based off The Nutshack. What is this meant to prove "there's a completely different MOC that captures broadly the same emotion as the ship, therefore there were no roadblocks relative to the Galaxy Explorer in terms of a modern re-release" Also, generally, I don't get why you're being so antagonistic with people who agree with you. We're having fun talking about a hobby here, no-one's "making excuses" some people just think differently to you. Quote
danth Posted October 24 Posted October 24 (edited) 8 hours ago, Black Falcon said: It is not that it was to unconventional to update. But IMO two things would have to be changed for that, first one would be that it would need more parts and the second it should have went further from the original model. While with the Galaxy Explorer keeping the flat parts flat worked, the Renegade would have benefited, if those parts would have been build so it actually looks like (or even better if it would have) an interior. Thanks for being specific about what you wanted to be different. Did you want more interior in the main front cockpit, or in the central section? Personally I wanted bigger, less messy wings, and much less blocky sensor/gun unit on the left protrusion, for starters 7 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said: This doesn't look anything like the set we're talking about? Like sure they could have made a symmetrical, completely differently shaped set that looks good but they also could have made a set based off The Nutshack. What is this meant to prove "there's a completely different MOC that captures broadly the same emotion as the ship, therefore there were no roadblocks relative to the Galaxy Explorer in terms of a modern re-release" I think it does look very evocative of the original Renegade, especially the cockpit and wing shape like I said before. Obviously there are also differences. I think it's a good example of how to look menacing and cool in a way the new Renegade set does not. 7 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said: Also, generally, I don't get why you're being so antagonistic with people who agree with you. We're having fun talking about a hobby here, no-one's "making excuses" Sorry, I didn't mean to come off that way. I said I was glad to hear you agree that the set isn't great. But you were both, in fact, making excuses. I literally quoted them. I think it's fine to acknowledge that a set isn't good/as good as another set, without giving Lego a pass. If you had some specific reason why the Renegade is harder to remake in a way that is pleasing with modern parts, I might be more convinced, but I have only heard hand-wavy assertions. Give me specifics! 7 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said: some people just think differently to you. How so? We agree that the set looks bad. Or do you mean that you think it was impossible to make a good Renegade and I don't? Edited October 24 by danth Quote
6180HydroSearchSub Posted October 24 Posted October 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, danth said: If you had some specific reason why the Renegade is harder to remake in a way that is pleasing with modern parts, I might be more convinced, but I have only heard hand-wavy assertions. Give me specifics! I've been thinking about this on and off since the Renegade was revealed, as it had been my most anticipated set of the year following the Galaxy Explorer and then subsequently the most disappointing set of the year (relative to expectations). I think it comes down to a combination of having a more difficult design brief and having been designed on a relatively smaller budget. With regards to the former, based on the designer's statements made during interviews, it sounds like the Renegade had to (1) incorporate the modular play pattern of the original Renegade, and (2) incorporate the family-friendly/group building philosophy LEGO appeared to have been trying to roll out for some of the larger sets. Galaxy Explorer didn't have to do that given its source material, which I would argue must have made designing Renegade harder and must have resulted in its disjointed and, frankly, unfinished final design. Budget must have also been a factor. Whereas Galaxy Explorer was designed and cost out pre-COVID, Renegade was trying to hit the same price point post-COVID-era inflation. If you compare the Renegade to Galaxy Explorer, Renegade does worse on both price per piece and price per [unit of weight]. Surely the fact that amateur MOCers can figure out better designs than some of the lackluster design choices we got out of the box (e.g., the weirdly plain communications array module, the unseemly gap on the back edge of the wings, etc.) suggests that the design was influenced by external forces outside the official designer's control. In short, I think Renegade was trying to do more with its design on a smaller budget. I think if money were no object, we could have gotten a Blacktron Renegade that was every bit as nice as the Galaxy Explorer. However--and just based on my own small attempts at fixing up the Renegade--the retail price for that imaginary set would likely be at least double what the actual set currently retailed for. And I hate to say it, but I don't know if there's a business case for that. Edited October 24 by 6180HydroSearchSub Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted October 24 Posted October 24 2 hours ago, danth said: How so? We agree that the set looks bad. Or do you mean that you think it was impossible to make a good Renegade and I don't? I don't think it was impossible but I think it's notably less simple than the Galaxy Explorer. Not that I don't think the designers made some poor choices. The Cockpit is the main one for me as it feels like they chose that piece out of obligation or something as it's way to large for the kinda dinky build the set has. One like the Moc you sent would be better for the cockpit but the bigger issue is structurally the ship is weird and needs to be modular. It could have been done better but it wasn't as easy as the GE. 2 hours ago, danth said: Sorry, I didn't mean to come off that way. I said I was glad to hear you agree that the set isn't great. But you were both, in fact, making excuses. I literally quoted them. I think it's fine to acknowledge that a set isn't good/as good as another set, without giving Lego a pass. Nah, it's fine, tone is hard to convey over text we've all accidentally phrased things in less than ideal ways before. 2 hours ago, danth said: How so? We agree that the set looks bad. Or do you mean that you think it was impossible to make a good Renegade and I don't?Thanks for being specific about what you wanted to be different. Did you want more interior in the main front cockpit, or in the central section? I feel like I would have preferred (personally) if they were gonna use the cockpit they did that the set was upscale more and made the area where the buggy is installed in the original a more fleshed out interior. I think they're obviously locked into a budget but in that case the cockpit and the yellow underlighting is the big unforced error. But In terms of what makes the set harder is it doesn't have the same simple structure of the Galaxy Explorer. That set is just a big triangle with a sloping square. It's easy to upscale but the Renegade brings questions because it's build feels more shaped by the specific big wing pieces they used, as well as this you take things like how the cockpit is connected to the body with a plate deep and wide connection for the "neck" that's another thing to consider, do you keep it spindly or build it up to imply access to the rest of the ship, the additional flyers are admittedly quite awkwardly placed on the original in a way that works because of the CS simplistic aesthetic so translating that to modern day, even with the logo thing they tried looked off and so on. And the one most subjective, I admit, is the original Galaxy Explorer has an interior, I think most people like big vehicle sets to have space beyond the cockpit but I don't think you can really do that with the Renegade the body, to capture the shape at it's price point, has to be plate based and I feel that lends to it not feeling worth it's value to many people because the Galaxy Explorer is so fully featured and slick. It could have been done, but I wonder if it would have changed the ship too much in a way most fans weren't happy. But they're not happy now so maybe it's just me not having enough faith in the medium 1 hour ago, 6180HydroSearchSub said: In short, I think Renegade was trying to do more with its design on a smaller budget. I think if money were no object, we could have gotten a Blacktron Renegade that was every bit as nice as the Galaxy Explorer. However--and just based on my own small attempts at fixing up the Renegade--the retail price for that imaginary set would likely be at least double what the actual set currently retailed for. And I hate to say it, but I don't know if there's a business case for that. In a way the Galaxy Explorer was like the last Chopper out of 'Nam in terms of the 2020s issues with LEGO Quote
6180HydroSearchSub Posted October 24 Posted October 24 4 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said: But In terms of what makes the set harder is it doesn't have the same simple structure of the Galaxy Explorer. That set is just a big triangle with a sloping square. It's easy to upscale but the Renegade brings questions because it's build feels more shaped by the specific big wing pieces they used, as well as this you take things like how the cockpit is connected to the body with a plate deep and wide connection for the "neck" that's another thing to consider, do you keep it spindly or build it up to imply access to the rest of the ship, the additional flyers are admittedly quite awkwardly placed on the original in a way that works because of the CS simplistic aesthetic so translating that to modern day, even with the logo thing they tried looked off and so on. One thing I would add is: I think it's clear based on the final product that fidelity to the original set might not have been as important for Renegade as it was for Galaxy Explorer. Certain upscaled elements on Galaxy Explorer were also present on the original Renegade set--e.g., the triple thrusters, the brick-built arrow--but were not ultimately included in the updated Renegade. As an aside, I also think it's important to note that the modernized "CS simplistic aesthetic" was not a given before Galaxy Explorer was released, and unfortunately has been shown to be not a thing post-Renegade. From what I remember of the MOC scene pre-2022, I think the direction most people were taking in LEGO space builds was towards more greebling, texture, and design complexity (e.g., this MOC by Pete Reid published in 2008, or this one by The Brick Artisan in 2021). In that respect, I think 10497 actually cut against most people's expectations of what an "ICONS Galaxy Explorer" would look like. Unfortunately for 10355 Blacktron Renegade, I think the opposite was true--most people, myself included, probably thought it would take after 10497 because that's what we thought a Classic Space ship in the "ICONS" would be going forward. Speaking for myself, that expectation was the source of my disappoint with the set as-released--and maybe instead of making comparisons to 10497, we should have been making a comparison to 70816 Benny's Spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!. It feels kind of silly that I'm only making this realization almost a year after Blacktron Renegade was released, but I'm starting to think the crux of the issue is that LEGO placed Blacktron Renegade in the wrong line. Maybe instead of ICONS, LEGO should have put Blacktron Renegade in the Creator 3-in-1 line. It's not the best fit, but if you think about it, Renegade has much more DNA in common with something like Benny's Spaceship than Galaxy Explorer: emphasis on play patterns, relative simplicity of design and building experience, and the general scale of the ship vis a vis the minifigures. Furthermore, although a Creator 3-in-1 Renegade would have still gotten the inevitable comparisons to 10497, instead of the second part of that sentence being "but it's no 10497," the narrative would have been "but this was intended for kids." I think this hypothetical is analogous to 31168 Medieval Horse Knight Castle. Nobody buys 31168 thinking it's going to be like 10305 Lion Knights Castle; rather, the more appropriate comparison is to 31120 Medieval Castle. In retrospect, if LEGO was able to position 10355 Blacktron Renegade the same way (and maybe they tried but retailers balked) I think everybody would have been a lot happier with the end product. Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted October 24 Posted October 24 7 minutes ago, 6180HydroSearchSub said: One thing I would add is: I think it's clear based on the final product that fidelity to the original set might not have been as important for Renegade as it was for Galaxy Explorer. Certain upscaled elements on Galaxy Explorer were also present on the original Renegade set--e.g., the triple thrusters, the brick-built arrow--but were not ultimately included in the updated Renegade. As an aside, I also think it's important to note that the modernized "CS simplistic aesthetic" was not a given before Galaxy Explorer was released, and unfortunately has been shown to be not a thing post-Renegade. From what I remember of the MOC scene pre-2022, I think the direction most people were taking in LEGO space builds was towards more greebling, texture, and design complexity (e.g., this MOC by Pete Reid published in 2008, or this one by The Brick Artisan in 2021). In that respect, I think 10497 actually cut against most people's expectations of what an "ICONS Galaxy Explorer" would look like. Unfortunately for 10355 Blacktron Renegade, I think the opposite was true--most people, myself included, probably thought it would take after 10497 because that's what we thought a Classic Space ship in the "ICONS" would be going forward. Speaking for myself, that expectation was the source of my disappoint with the set as-released--and maybe instead of making comparisons to 10497, we should have been making a comparison to 70816 Benny's Spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!. It feels kind of silly that I'm only making this realization almost a year after Blacktron Renegade was released, but I'm starting to think the crux of the issue is that LEGO placed Blacktron Renegade in the wrong line. Maybe instead of ICONS, LEGO should have put Blacktron Renegade in the Creator 3-in-1 line. It's not the best fit, but if you think about it, Renegade has much more DNA in common with something like Benny's Spaceship than Galaxy Explorer: emphasis on play patterns, relative simplicity of design and building experience, and the general scale of the ship vis a vis the minifigures. Furthermore, although a Creator 3-in-1 Renegade would have still gotten the inevitable comparisons to 10497, instead of the second part of that sentence being "but it's no 10497," the narrative would have been "but this was intended for kids." I think this hypothetical is analogous to 31168 Medieval Horse Knight Castle. Nobody buys 31168 thinking it's going to be like 10305 Lion Knights Castle; rather, the more appropriate comparison is to 31120 Medieval Castle. In retrospect, if LEGO was able to position 10355 Blacktron Renegade the same way (and maybe they tried but retailers balked) I think everybody would have been a lot happier with the end product. True, I did kinda expect the simplistic aesthetic and was happily proven right but CS is an outlier there as it's whole appeal is in that simple aesthetic. I think if they were gonna translate this one so loosely putting it more in line with Icons castle and letting the designers make their own Ship free from the past was the play Quote
icm Posted October 24 Posted October 24 I pre-ordered four copies of the 10497 Galaxy Explorer the day it was announced and I bought another copy later when it was on clearance for half price. I used three copies to build the A, B, and C models, and I gave one copy to my brother and one copy to my wife. (My wife's copy has been sitting half-built and very dusty on the shelf for over a year and a half now :/ ). But I only bought one copy of the 10355 Blacktron Renegade. There are a few reasons why I only bought one copy of the Renegade for myself, while I bought three copies of the Galaxy Explorer for myself. First off, I've never really been into Blacktron the way I've been into early Classic Space. I bought vintage copies of the original 918, 924, and 928 soon after I graduated from college and I designed my own modern remakes of those spaceships in Studio, though I didn't get them built in physical bricks for several years after that. I also had a project in Studio where I was trying to build digital copies of every 918, 924, or 928 remake I could find on the web, though that petered out after a while. I love the simple, sleek lines of the original 918, 924, and 928 and the way that simplicity lends itself to a wide variety of modern interpretations. In contrast, I only built one Blacktron creation before the Blacktron Cruiser GWP was released, and that was a small, simple, half-hearted interpretation of the Invader that mostly used spare parts I already had. Second, I wasn't as impressed by the rebuildability of the Renegade as I was by the rebuildability of the Galaxy Explorer. The Galex uses almost entirely basic wedge plates, Technic bricks, and other basic plates and bricks and slopes; it doesn't really depend on specialized parts for any of its key features. Even the big tile ramp in the back is a pretty simple part that's easy to use in other places. By contrast, the Renegade relies on very specialized frame parts to build its backbone, very specialized lattice wedges to achieve the look at the front of the wings, and specialized support girders to decorate the top of the frame. Those parts make it rather less versatile for MOCs, although to its credit it still does have a lot of basic bricks. This can be seen on Rebrickable: there are instructions for building just about anything out of the Galex, but the selection of alt builds for the Renegade is much smaller. Third, the official B model of the Renegade is much less impressive than the official B and C models of the Galex. Although the Galex B and C models are basically just downscaled, self-similar versions of the A model, they are still good enough to be A models in their own rights if they were to be sold separately, while the A model itself has no compromises whatsoever to allow for the alt builds. In contrast, the B model of the Renegade is pretty mediocre, and the A model is obviously compromised for its sake. There's no need to have the 1x6 arch bricks in the Renegade except to use in the legs of the Alienator alt-build, but at that size it's a shame to have the Alienator use the same old shuffling motion the little old set had on a much smaller scale. The smaller walker of the B-model is cobbled together from spare parts and doesn't have much identity of its own. Fourth, the self-similarity of the A, B, and C models of the Galex respected the self-similarity of the original 918, 924, and 928, but there isn't that same commonality between the Renegade remake and the Invader remake. The mods to make the Renegade and the Invader compatible are small, but it was still poor planning on TLG's part to not build the Invader with future compatibility in mind, and poor execution to not build the Renegade with backward compatibility and cockpit commonality in mind. To really respect the original sets, commonality and compatibility should have been paramount. I don't mind the simplicity of the Renegade build compared to the greater sophistication of the Galex build, or the higher proportion of yellow compared to the original set. Those are stylistic decisions that don't really affect the merit of the build considered on its own terms. It's the lack of commonality and the compromises for the subpar B-model that bother me. The boring 18+ box art is also a bummer! They absolutely should have done the same kind of homage to the original with the box art as the 10497 did. I agree with @Renny The Spaceman that the Renegade is much harder to modernize and upscale than the Galex. The Galex is primarily defined by its shape, as it has very little functionality. Just an opening top hatch, a back end that splits open, and a rear ramp. As long as those simple features are maintained along with the general outline of the wings and the general color scheme, the ship is still recognizable as a Galaxy Explorer and the designer can have a lot of creative freedom with everything else. The shape is easily upscaled or downscaled without loss of detail or function. By contrast, the Renegade is mostly defined by its functionality. A proper remake should have at least as much modular self-compatibility as the original (which the set does) and also intercompatibility with other contemporary Blacktron remakes (with the set does not). To maintain modularity, an upscaled version needs beefed-up module joints to stay sturdy, but then that changes the proportions and we end up with something that's more chunky than spindly. Also when upscaling it to match the upscaling precedent set by the Galex, you have to choose whether to upscale the cockpit or not. If you do (and the set did), you lose the simple cockpit commonality with the remake Invader that wasn't significantly upscaled from the original; if you don't you lose the proportions of the windscreen compared to the rest of the ship. Although the shape of the Renegade is distinct, it's not nearly as simple, clean, and easy to sketch as the Galex outline, so that means you have to make a lot more stylistic choices in how you're going to do it. If you're going to add retractable landing gear (and I've been of the opinion since 2002 that nearly every Lego spaceship should have retractable landing gear), it's not hard to hide it in the thickened wing of an upscaled Galex or attach it to the portion of a non-upscaled Galex that extends below the wing, but to hide it in the Renegade you either have to change the proportions of the spindly booms to hide it inside (like the set did) or you have to think a lot harder about where it's going to go. At a larger scale, you also have to think harder about how to keep the twin-boom frame stiff and swooshable. The twisting and bending forces in the original were small enough to handle with unreinforced simple bricks and plates, but at a larger scale they need Technic reinforcement and stronger crosslinking between the booms. So that forces another design choice. Do you keep the main engines as close to the center as possible and have them hinge out of the way to unload cargo to the rear, as in the original? The tradeoff is that to maintain rigidity, the cross-members that support the cargo module from underneath are going to have to be significantly bulkier, and they may have to be augmented by cross-members on top, which will change the look of the ship and might look pretty clunky. Or you can move the main engines outboard so their centers line up with the centerlines of the booms and add a thick structural cross-member at the rear ends of the booms, like the set did. That's the simplest way to make the upscaled frame sufficiently stiff and swooshable, but it means the cargo can't be unloaded to the rear anymore, and the cargo loading needs to be rethought. I think the dropship mechanism they came up with is a fairly clever solution to that problem, at the cost of changing the play pattern from a cargo ship to a VTOL dropship. So yes, there are a lot more design challenges in an upscaled, updated Renegade than in an upscaled, updated Galaxy Explorer. I don't agree with all the design choices they made, but I don't think they were all bad choices. It's still disappointing that the two sides of the 10355 Renegade frame are the same length while they're different lengths in the original, but that's easily remedied with an add-in module extension. I should build one. I should also mod my Invader and Renegade to have compatible modules, and build different little flyers for the wings. I really don't like the brick-built Blacktron logo flyers. They don't look good and they don't hold minifigures well and they don't swoosh well either. I'll note that @danth's own Renegade remake is wildly different than the original in most respects. It's a wildly creative build that transforms into a totally awesome mech! But the original doesn't do that. So it seems a bit rich to criticize the 10355 for being too different from the original when your own design is so wildly (and totally awesomely!) different too. Talking about it makes me want to buy a second copy of the Renegade. Maybe if it goes on sale before the end of the year I'll still do that. Quote
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