michaelgale

Interesting discussion guys! A few points: I. Feeding Power to Layouts Your train layout is an electrical circuit. Unlike most electrical circuits, the size and shape of your layout circuit changes dynamically as your train moves around the layout. As the train moves, its distance to the electrical energy source changes and therefore the electrical resistance between the source and train also changes. Basically, your layout circuit has one job: deliver as much electrical energy from the source to the motor. Unfortunately, your train motor never receives 100% of the available energy from the source since some of it is lost due to the combined electrical resistance of the wires and rails to the train motor. Under light or modest "loading" of the train, these variances in electrical resistance are not very noticeable. However, when your train is under higher load conditions (e.g. pulling many wagons, climbing an incline, moving around a sharp curve, etc.) it draws more current to maintain torque. This increased current flow causes a proportionally bigger voltage drop between the source and the motor and therefore less energy is available for the motor. We see the result as the train slowing down. Therefore, the most important way to maximize your layout performance (i.e. deliver as much energy from the source to the motor) is to reduce the layout circuit resistance. This can be achieved two ways: 1) Adding more power feed locations The most basic layout circuit often consists of a speed controller (the energy source) connected by a wire to a loop of track. If the train is located at the power feed point, it has maximum available performance since the circuit path length is at its minimum and thus electrical resistance is at its minimum. In the extreme case of the train being at the opposite side of the track loop, the path length is at its maximum with corresponding maximum resistance. A heavy train will run faster near the power feed and slow down when its far away. To improve our track circuit, we can introduce another power feed point to our loop. Ideally, it should be placed on the opposite side, equidistant to the original feed point. It is important to note that this extra feed point should come from the SAME source, not another speed controller source. Connecting two different speed controllers to the same track circuit results is poor unpredictable performance and will likely damage one or both of the controllers. With two feed points, the electrical resistance between the source and the motor is the combined "parallel" resistance of two equal half-length wire and track paths. This parallel resistance is almost always much lower than the single path. Now your heavy train will seem to run with much less variation in speed around the loop. You can continue to add more power feed locations to your layout to smooth out performance even more, but it is a case of diminishing returns. The improvement from 1 to 2 feeds is most noticeable, from 2 to 3 less noticeable, and so on. 2) Balancing circuit path lengths The benefit of adding more power feed locations to your layout track circuit can vary greatly depending on how you do it. To achieve maximum benefit, follow two key principles: i) Position track feeders as equidistant from each other as much as possible. It doesn't have to be perfect, but attempt to keep the spacing as equal as possible. ii) Each track feeder should have its own wire from the source to the track, i.e. not shared or split from another feeder's wire. If the track feeders share wiring for some length, then impact of the wire's resistance will be noticeable since it now has to carry twice the current. It is also desirable (but not strictly necessary) for each feeder wire length to be the same. This isn't always practical in every layout, but do what you can to balance the wire path lengths. There have been requests for guidance on "how many feeders per rail joint etc.". However, I think the number of rail joints is not always the key parameter. You need to think of the track circuit as a whole, starting from the source, including the wires, and the potential paths along the track. The best advice is simply have TWO (or more) feeds per layout circuit spaced as evenly as possible. I would also advise placing feeders near "high load demand" locations on your layout. In particular, at sharp curves where frictional drag losses are highest. II. Thermistors The thermistor fitted to almost all LEGO® brand train motors has one main job. It is a passive resistive device designed to protect the motor windings from burning out under stall conditions (easily achieved by holding the wheels stopped when powered). When a motor is stalled, the full current from the source flows through the relatively low-resistance motor windings causing huge power dissipation and eventual burnout. A thermistor is a passive non-linear resistive device whose electrical resistance varies proportionally with temperature. At lower "normal" temperatures, its resistance is nearly zero and current flows freely through the device. As temperature increases, specifically the increase of temperature due the "self-heating" effect of increasing current, its corresponding resistance also increases (non-linearly). At some point, the resistance increases so dramatically that it effectively acts like an open circuit, cutting off the load (or the motor in this case). It acts like a circuit breaker protecting a load from excessive current. Like a circuit breaker, it also resettable--in this case it is "self-resetting" since its resistance will return to normal when its internal temperature falls back to its normal operating range. Unlike a circuit breaker, it is a "soft" reset. That is, it does not cutoff instantly. It's cutoff behaviour follows a curve and is somewhat gradual. Thermistors come in a wide range of types, voltage/current ratings, trip/recovery times, temperature derating curves, etc. Choosing one for your particular application can be quite daunting and does require some experimentation (ask me how I know! We surveyed around 20x different devices for our Fx Bricks motor!). I am known to remove the LEGO® 9V train motor thermistor (at my own risk!) simply because LEGO chose a thermistor with on overly safe trip point / derating curve. The thermistor starts to cutoff under modest load conditions, resulting in a very noticeable speed reduction and in some cases coming to a stop. The motor is capable of safely handling more power dissipation than the thermistor allows. I am willing to take the risk of having no stall motor protection in exchange for predictable continuous operation. I am also depending on the short circuit/overload protection capabilities of the speed controllers that I use. They cutoff the track supply under overload conditions and retry until it resumes to normal. For the record, I recommend that enclosed motorized products should include thermistor protection. Its your motor's last line of defence when mechanically stalled. It doesn't take long for motor current to rise dramatically causing damaging power dissipation in the motor windings. III. Motor PWM LEGO® 9V train motors are completely safe to operate with PWM based speed controllers. In general, PWM speed control is suitable for almost all DC brushed motor applications. You still need to be aware of the usual considerations of not exceeding the voltage and current rating of the motor, using a PWM frequency range which balances current ripple, efficiency and noise/vibration. The circumstances under which a motor is damaged with PWM speed control are very nearly the same with DC based control. Motor "burnout" can be one of two things: 1. Motor windings literally burned due to excessive heat / power dissipation from high sustained current. The thermistor in the motor should prevent the catastrophic power dissipation which can destroy the windings. 2. Brush contacts oxidized due to excessive sparking to the point where the oxidized deposits (black soot) form an insulating layer and stop the motor from working. In most cases, motor burnout is a result of 2. Often, excessive sparking on the motor brushes causes sooty deposits to accumulate on the brushes making them electrically resistive and/or isolating. Sparking can be caused by dirty motor brushes causing intermittent/poor contact. Sparking does occur with both DC and PWM based speed control and therefore your motor brushes are equally vulnerable to oxidization effects with either method. Sadly, the excessive sparking itself causes more sparking since it adds more contamination to the brushes which then increases more sparking, and so on. The effects of the sparking can be reduced with fitting a capacitor across the motor terminals to smooth out voltage spikes. Also, it is important for your speed controller (motor driver) to have flyback diodes to clamp very high voltage spikes (caused by back EMF) of the motor during PWM voltage transitions. Most modern modern PWM controllers will incorporate flyback diode protection. The Fx Bricks 9005 speed controller has a sophisticated motor driver controller with diode protection as well as a passive RC filter on the output to smooth voltage spikes on its output. If you're careful and brave, you can take apart the motor and clean / restore the brushes. Clean both the brush contact "shoes" as well as the copper rotor contacts on the motor shaft with 99% isopropyl alcohol (IPA) until all of the sooty deposits are removed. Inspect the surfaces of the brushes and rotor contacts and look for pitting or other visually apparent discontinuities. If you see pitting, use a very fine-grit (1600-4000 grit) sanding paper to burnish the surface of the brushes/contacts so that they are smooth, then re-clean the surfaces with IPA. Given how much I've written above, no doubt we need to put some of this material on our website! We do provide some physical user documentation with the speed controller and the power feeder products; but it is also useful to have more in depth reference material available on our site. One more for the to-do list!

Great video! Thanks for sharing and we appreciate your analysis and perspective. To clarify, the gapped track segment in the photo is a prototype isolation track. This allows remote control of isolation segments in a layout for either sidings or block configuration. A remotely operated uncoupler would definitely be a cool product--it is on our roadmap. However, it is lower priority compared to remote isolation, remotely operated switches, signals, etc. We would also need to figure out how it would work--e.g. would it be purely mechanical, electromechanical, or both? Can it work with every variant of magnetic coupler (including some impressive 3rd party products with rare-earth magnets)?

We're working on the issues of selling out of key products by taking bigger production commitments with our suppliers. However, we're also recognizing that there is saturation point for production capacity (at least for the level of quality and competence that we require in our injection molding and overall quality control). In any case, we're receiving a steady stream of new P40 switches and are releasing them into our shop as we get them. Stay tuned and sign up for notifications for new stock.

Sorry for the radio silence on our work at Fx Bricks--I just posted a new blog post with some (hopefully) good news! https://shop.fxbricks.com/blogs/news/happy-new-year-新年快乐 Very interesting topics being discussed here--glad to see folks interested in DCC. I'd definitely recommend DCC for more advanced features and operation. Our new motor bogie has an easily accessible 4-pin connector (usually jumpered) to access the wheel pickup and motor terminals separately for easy connection to an external DCC decoder of your choice. We'll likely have a breakout cable to make it plug-and-play to some of standard NEM 8, 21, 9 pin connectors. Also in the roadmap is a "smart" motor bogie with integrated DCC decoder with a PFx Brick core for sound etc. There's a reason why the current motor bogie has so much unused PCB real estate on 2x PCBs! ;)

Sure, we can't expect TLG to make an exhaustive list of practices and scenarios that would constitute a trademark violation. Things like prohibition of TLG logos and brand assets are obvious. However, clear rules for the vast majority of potential use cases can be defined and would be very helpful. Specifically, guidelines for product descriptions, a range of different disclaimer texts for different applications (rather than the typical non-specific "Fairplay" text), acceptable use of TLG elements integrated in another product, etc. The reality is that TLG is a global business with a powerful and valuable brand. Protection of this brand is a major strategic imperative from their perspective. However, I want to believe that this aim can be achieved with more "tools" besides aggressive legal action. A framework of engagement and partnership with other business is surely better. If anything, it would result in far better PR outcomes for TLG and its broader relationship with the fan community...

I must admit, that we (Fx Bricks) were only recently made aware of the result of this action taken against HA Bricks. I have not had time to fully digest the details of this action and what implications it has against not only Fx Bricks, but other members of our fan community. In any case, it is a chilling reminder of the precarious legal landscape in which companies such as ours operate. I take no issue with TLG enforcing trademark and IP rights; but definitely take issue with the way it engages with "friendly" 3rd party commercial entities and with the fan community in general. Specifically, I wish TLG would simply be clear about what behaviours and practices constitute a violation of trademark. Violation of IP rights is more clear-cut, e.g. copying a product. However, what constitutes a violation of trademark is much less clear. We can not only empathize with HA Bricks in more than spirit. In 2021, we (and JB Spielwaren) were subject to a letter from TLG's legal representatives regarding the use of trademark on our Fx Track store listings. Fortunately, we were able to amicably resolve this issue with some modest changes. However, it is not with a sense of looming anxiety and paranoia that other violations are potentially lurking in every product listing, blog post, retail box artwork, product manual, advertisement, video, etc. Having a clear set of guidelines (with examples) would be helpful. In a perfect world, TLG and a vibrant 3rd party product eco-system should be able to co-exist in a mutually beneficial "win-win" way. It would take some clear rules and guidelines and perhaps a semi-formal framework of commercial agreements; but I'm sure it's possible. However, for now, I live in the real world. And in this world, we tread very carefully and remain eternally grateful for the support of an awesome fan community!

EVERYONE: Please consult this latest blog post about a problem affecting some production P40 switches. We are very sorry and are still getting to the bottom of it. Rest assured we'll make it right. https://shop.fxbricks.com/blogs/news/were-sorry @SD100 Thanks! That's great to hear! I shouldn't really reveal it, but we have already tooled the R120, R136, R152 and this is the shocker: the R168! No word on release date yet since we have to get the P40 production and fulfillment sorted out. I've seen production samples from my HK team and didn't realize how BIG these curve elements get! The R152 and R168 are monsters!

@UltraViolet @zephyr1934 @Landman Many thanks for your kind comments--much appreciated! @dtomsen Thanks for sharing your ballasting method! I may just have to "borrow" it for future instructions! ;)

@dtomsen That looks fabulous! Well done! Please show us the underside to figure out what you've done!

To be honest, I am not comfortable getting into debates about costs / prices etc. My previous post about pricing was just to put our price into perspective with comparable products. And by comparable, I don't mean compatible or identical. As a basis of comparison, I don't have a lot to choose from. I chose other retail model train products which have injection molded plastic, metal, and other components such as fasteners, electrical connectors, etc. that are about the same size/shape as a P40 switch. I believe that is a fair basis of comparison. When I refer to similar base costs, I'm talking about all the common things Fx Bricks, Piko, LGB, etc. pays for: injection molding, metal stamping, labour, global logistics, etc. And more specifically, incurring these costs in China where we all perform our manufacturing. @aawsum You just have to take my word for it: it is really expensive to develop a product like the P40 switch. Our price is not high because of a $0.50 PCB + $0.50 2mm jumper. It is high because it is almost 6-digits USD to tool a high precision (<0.05 mm tolerance) ABS mold for 320 x 120 mm. And don't forget, you need to make 2x (left + right). The next big ticket item is metal stamping all of the metal rails: count them: 11x unique stampings. We're not done yet: molds for switch rails, covers, tie bars. Still not done: metal stampings for tabs and interconnect. And finally: LABOUR. We have to pay people to assemble 36x components PER SWITCH. Then these folks electrically test each switch and QC the final assembly. Then they have to be packaged and prepared for distribution. Again, I am really not comfortable talking about our cost / prices and hopefully this will not be a recurring discussion every time we release new products. We are very grateful and appreciative to everyone who has demonstrated their support for us in the most meaningful way: purchasing Fx Track. Remember, we've already incurred all the development and capital costs plus all of the risk. Therefore, as a business we are placing our trust and confidence in both our products and customers to make this work. We are prepared to wait for the return on investment and in return, we need folks like you to trust us and recognize that our retail price is based on fundamental realities of manufacturing in 2023.

@UltraViolet We're expecting a small consignment of S32's + S8's in 2-3 weeks. S48's are an interesting idea; however, I suspect the molding costs for this would be steep due to the size and tolerance requirements. Most folks are wanting us to release the S16 ASAP--that will at least allow you to fill an integer multiple of 48 studs. Re: the power feeder, it is dark bluish gray as most folks would expect/prefer. It does maintain a flat 2x2 tile profile either side of the rail head, but has a 1x2 plate protrusion adjacent. This was a necessary engineering requirement to enclose the connector terminals as well as offering a point of "leverage" for insertion/removal. @Duq @Ashi Valkoinen Yes, the R104 can be used in a sub-optimal way as both a return curve as well forming a 90 deg curve off of the diverging route. Obviously, you use at your own risk, but practically speaking it is unlikely to damage the components as long as you try to distribute the stresses equally among all rail joints by letting the track formation "float" above the ground between fastening points to baseplates/etc. @UltraViolet @GoHabsGo @Szubi The motor bogie is still in development, but has taken a back seat to the metal wheelset pickup. The reasons for this are: 1. It lowers the overall technical risk since we confine the risk to the development of the metal wheel component, axle bushings, pickup wipers etc. These elements can then be used with confidence with the motor bogie. 2. The metal wheelset has a bigger receptive market than the motor bogie (at least in the beginning). More folks can use the wheelset "out of the box" to power existing trains using 9V, PF, or PU motor drives. Furthermore, folks who simply want to energize lighting or accessories can use the wheelset too. 3. Lastly, the wheelset will obviously have a lower retail price point than the motor bogie, therefore giving more folks the opportunity to embrace the benefits of metal rails and exploring the 9V rail system incrementally.

@Duq Fully understand the dilemma of buying 8x elements when you might only need 1 or 2. If its any consolation, R64P curves can be used to make grid aligned S-bends with any multiple of 8-stud offset? Lastly, I guess one could always split a box with a friend! :) Ahhhh...the double slip! A god-tier track element! Obviously its not on the radar currently, but someday maybe? We would make a 22.62º diamond crossing first--a less risky stepping stone to the summit!

Hello All, Sorry for not checking into this forum in some time -- I have been *busy* as you can tell by the recent release of our P40 switches! 1. First of all : A big thank you to everyone for supporting us and for your patience over the past 18-24 months. We are very much encouraged by the initial support for the pre-orders of the P40 switches and we can't wait to deliver them to you. 2. The "Sold Out" status for the P40 switches on our site was due to a Shopify plugin bug. It's been fixed, so if you got caught out, it should be back to normal. There is an actual risk that we will actually sell out of this first production batch--so if you're keen to get 9V switches this summer, act now! We have scheduled a couple more production runs over the next 12 months, but we don't know when they will occur or what their lead-times will be. 3. THE PRICE! Let me be clear: 150 USD for 2x metal rail switches of this size is 100% reasonable and consistent with global model train industry. I think we in the LEGO train world are so "calibrated" to plastic track pricing and/or LEGO retail product volume pricing for tracks, that we lose sight of what the price / value relationship is. For example, here are some retail unit prices for comparable metal rail model train switches in O gauge and gauge 1: LGB 16040 Right Turnout : €87.99 LGB 18050 Right Manual Turnout 15º : €155.00 Piko Left Switch R7 22.5º 35226 : €132.00 Piko Left Switch R5 30º 35222 : €94.00 Piko Left Switch R3 22.5º 35228 : €90.00 Lionel FasTrack O32 Left Switch 681254 : $129.99 USD Lionel FasTrack O36 Left Switch 612017 : $54.99 USD On average (taking approx. F/X rates) this represents about €98 per switch. One P40 switch retails for €85 (€169.99 for 2x) on JBS. Clearly, our pricing is consistent with the market. Furthermore, all the above manufacturers have their products made in China just like us (I've visited their factories!) -- so our retail prices are based on the same base costs, expenses, margins, etc. We also notice many folks from the EU visit our Canadian shop to compare pricing. Let me assure you JBS pricing virtually the same. Also remember that the JBS price of €169.99 includes approximately 20% VAT whereas the Canadian shop price is EXCLUSIVE of VAT--Canadian customers will pay 5-13% (depending on province) more on checkout and pay roughly the same. The effects of currency conversions and local taxation can make price comparison difficult and misleading. That is why we nominally work in USD inside Fx Bricks since all of our costs are fundamentally incurred in USD. It is also why we've set a nominal MSRP of $150 USD ($75 USD per unit). The bottom line is that $75 USD per switch is very reasonable, this will be especially noticeable when you finally get the real thing! :) 4. Please don't forget that releasing the P40 switch is HALF the story. We also had to offer the R64P curve track and S1.6/S3.2 straight tracks at the same time. Otherwise, the P40 by itself would be much less useful for building layouts. We believe the decision to release these elements as individual products is better for both us and for you. For us, it makes inventory and production planning easier and it makes the logic behind our product system crystal clear, i.e. how each element fits together. The benefit for you is better choice and the ability to target your purchases to what you really need--especially for the highest priced P40 switches. Adding extra elements to every box of P40 switches that most customers won't need just increases the price of every box unnecessarily. If you're building a yard or crossovers, you want to make sure every $75 USD spent is for the switch you need. That is also why we offer the P40 switch as 3x SKUs: (i) 2x P40L Left, (ii) 2x P40R Right, or (iii) 1x P40L + 1x P40R. Folks building crossovers will love the opportunity to buy a pair of the same switches. Once again, thank you everyone for your support over the past few (very challenging) years. Rest assured we're still marching forward on the all other products such as power accessories and wheel/motor drive systems. We should have some good news regarding power feeders and accessory cables very very soon! Stay tuned!

Just saw this now. Its a great idea, look forward to seeing this develop!