Lok24

To me it was new, the document is from 30.6.2023. And new is, that LEGO released something like this ;-)

Never expected this: https://www.lego.com/en-us/service/help/Power_Functions/LEGO-Powered-Up-programming-blocks-kA06N000000g04eSAA?locale=en-us

I have three Android devices, all from 2016. Seven years old. They work . Only 11% in Germany use cell phones older than 3(!) years. And there are lots of alternatives, as discussed.

As far as I know it is now - possible to store data in the hub That means: program is stored in the hub and running, contains a command "store", an data can be recalled after power off/on? For technic hub and city hub? - possible to let two hubs communicate with each other? For technic hub and city hub and mixed? If the answer to both questions is "yes": Run Hub_A with a certain configuration (Maxspeed Port A = 75) stored in the data area Connect with pybricks to HUB_B, in the editor, write a small program containing only config string "Maxspeed Port A = 50" and the send-routine to send to HUB_A Could that work? Did I explain clearly enough? Where do I found examples for Hub-to Hub and store data? I checked docs, but was completely lost ;-) Edit: Ah, found! class LWP3Device(hub_kind, name=None, timeout=10000) and system.storage (128 Byte) This could solve the configuration issues @vascolp ?

Yes , cause @vascolp wrote: "People can´t just use PU as easy as PF was. This is true. " And I cant see a difference in use there. In case of PF the speed control remote was only part or train sets, the servo was never included in a set, as far as I remember. Nevertheless it was used for technic Mocs. (but then widly replcaced by many many users with phone and SBRICK) Indeed, but the idea of @allanp was a remote+ with display, that would solve that. With PU you could the displays for that? I sometimes used an old, separate phone for that . I think everything is better than waiting for LEGO to offer such a extended remote. You get a fully functional controller, all possibilities to control, you need a (separate) phone and a controller, mine is less than 20 €. That's poor, these are the three angular motors? They still dont' work with Powered Up App? You cold then use only the elctronic part of one or two(!) city hubs. Uh, is this a new picture? I had the same mid of 2022 or so, I thought it was because they did not support 32bit OS any more. To my great surprise I could update all my three 2016 Samsung tablet and phone yesterday with the latest version (the one with the new design).

They show that it has nothing to do with programming, just configuration, if you use the smart device as a controller. You could use two, one without battery-box ;-)

Then you could use BrickController 2, this is a major advantage of PU: it's an open system. To your proposal of entering the config via the remote buttons: how should that be save under a specific name for reuse? I Think that would require some kind of display.

it was @vascolp who in point 1 declared PU not being that simple as PF. There had never been proportional joysticks.

There are lots of tutorials which explain Powered Up programming, and as you see: understanding one of the constructs makes the two other clear. And I agree: LEGO should give tutorials and information to their clients, and they don't. They are "biggest" part of the "problem". The central question is: with the proposed device with many buttons and a tiny display: would that make it better? I fear: no.

Hum. Please explain, what is the difference: vs. Agreed. In Germany 95% have one..... And even if so: for programming it's not that funny....here's the comparison, both are 7 years old...and work So go and get and old refurbished tablet or smart device for app. 80€, and you can use it however you want. Just load a public program, start it and use your remotes(!) to control.

Hi all, Today I want to show and explain some things regarding “programming” and “configuration” and show some examples, how this can be done and how difficult or simpel it is. Powered Up App / Define a controller Step 1: select desired elements from a list (of dozens of elements) and arrange them on the screen as desired, note the assigned numbers (here: 0 and 1) A Step 2: switch to the program, select the two olive program blocks and assign motor “A” and slider “1” to the steering block(left), motor “B” and slider “0” to the driving motor block (right). This is configuration only, the “program” is hidden in the two blocks. Or use this combined element: And use the same blocks, but different control-Elements: This is a way to configure and control a simple vehicle via the Power Up App and some smart device. Both pictures show the complete “program” Powered Up App / Use a LEGO remote Yes, that’s a little more “complex”, but have a look at it: First we see that all three parts are nearly the same. And if you start the program they all run simultaneously. The yellow one is a trigger that waits for an event. If triggered, the motor block (olive) is executed, the upper left sets speed to -52, the lower to 50, the right to “stop”. The pink blocks define the events. They compare the remote buttons to 1 (=up), -1 (=down) or 127 (=stop) The icon below with two hubs defines, that Hub2 is used for that (which is the remote) and the Button-Set, here “A”. So this a complete mixture between programming and configuration. Pybricks Here is some Pybricks python code to show the difference between “configuration” and “programming “ from pybricks.pupdevices import Motor from pybricks.parameters import Port from pybricks.tools import wait # configure port and speed driving_motor = Motor(Port.A) speed = 500 degrees = 90 pause = 3000 # Make the motor run driving_motor.run(speed) wait(pause) driving_motor.stop() wait (pause) driving_motor.run_angle(speed, degrees) Please note: this is a complete program that can be run via Pybricks Of course, if you don’t know that’s all it is not possible to use. And Lego won't tell you. But if you have minimal knowledge you can handle that, and you’ll find a lot of tutorials and info.

Of course,even train motors with no encoders, also mixed . Each motor type has a special ID and sends it to the hub, then can be determined what kind of control is need (i.E. load control max Speed etc) I once developed the program "Motor control" which does (almost) exactly this, for hub city hub and technic hub. It does (like all the other program already available as substitute for all control+ controlled sets) do not require knowledge of any programming language. It takes a web browser and app. 5 minutes to get that up and running. But if someone is able to understand and change this line dirMotorA = 1 # Direction 1 or -1 or i.e. maxSpeed = 38 # range is 5 to 100 it's can even be configured without "programming" I propose to set up for this very exiting question a new thread, i can there explain the idea behind "motor control", @vascolp could talk about Remote Bla Bla and get some new ideas. Then we could use this set to discuss the input from @gyenesvi and @allanp and all others.....

Thanks for your statement. IMHO the discussion goes the wrong way. It's in a first step necessary to define what's missing, what are the requirements, and then(!) present possible solutions. Two examples: If you buy a train set, everything ist ok. If you use the city hub and connect a remote, everything its fine. What exactly do you mean, what is missing in these two cases? What would you like to configure? Give an example, please, THX. What kind MOC, how many hubs and remotes?

You kow that a link to the actual Device-list on the LEGO-page is printed on the box? And: there a very few PU-Sets that need a smart device. Perhaps I missed your point, but there is no need to update your hub, except there are new sets which are integrated. So if LEGO stopps support, the "old" version still runs, cause there is no change in FW any more. BTW your "CC+" must be updatedas well, if erros in the FW are detected or new sets have to be supported or new motors and sensors will be available. So you have to connect it to BT and the Internet.... It needs a display, battery, storage, porocessor, touch screen... It seems to me like another "smart device", sold by LEGO. I think:no. Please don't mix up configuration and programming. And I doubt that there are many users who want to use 16 Motors in a MOC. What's missing (in my opinion) is just another simple(!) remote. The existing PU system and protocol would allow that. And - of course - extension cables.

No. You don't have to do that all. But you can do it and use it . And I know many people who do that. Looking at exhibtrions and see what is moved by PU is impressive. PF in that area is dead since a long time, cause it doesn't work. It was replaced by SBRICK and a cell phone long ago. It is. Take a remote and a a hub, connnect and run up to two or four motors. You mean most of the people in the world have no cell phone? You know that - from which source? And: do they complain about that? Or do you only mean so called AFOLs ? This seems impossible to me. Configuration yes , programming no. It does not allow feedback, no sensors at all, IIRC. And it is not wireless, an important point. Could you save different / how many "programs"?

Ok, sorry missed that point. Is referred to: Did you ever try the PowerdUp app, the predefined customizable controls and all the other features? I've been around on many exhibitions with boost, powerup Up and EV3 to play and learn with children, they could set up a simple(!) program in less than five minutes.

Yes, it has been there: the Boost Set 17101. 7 years+, with more than 60 lession to learn that all. 1.) Buy a set 2.) it is indicated on the box, that smart device and app are needed 3.) Built the model 4.) Install App (only once for city and only once for technic, the PoweredUp App or control+) 5.) start and play

It is. Or: it should be very flexible. 2 hubs are the same size as a PF-Battery Box + 2 receiver

Only if you use Control+, which is just an App. Not if you use Powered Up with all it's other features. One City hub and one PU remote do the same as a PF Remote Control Unit + Battery box + IR-Receiver. But much smaller. And does (and could always) do the same as the PF Speed Control. Only a cable is missing. Or a switch on the remote; thats what the discussion is about. Just load a program into it. Or use an ESP or Aduino. Fell free to chose whatever is suitible for you. This is essential to me, cause I have no cell phone.... BTW.: The fact that you can't connect a remote to a technic hub is not a fault in the "system", but not (yet) designed by LEGO. Or is that available now? For the move hub with 4 motors this is possible.

C+ is a programming language, and "Control+" is only the name of a LEGO APP ;-) The system ist Powered Up. And in my opinion it is designed very well, and it offers things which before could only be built with the very expensive EV3. 1.) You dont' have to use a cell phone, PU is an open system 2.) The possibilties to control the two sets are completely different....

With two city hubs and one remote you can connect the remote with the two hubs at the same time on different channels. Channel selection via green button on remote. Assigning ports: just change A and B on the hub Reverse:just turn the knob on the remote 180° (its the same with the move hub, where you control 4 Motors with one remote) Isn't that similar to what you descibed? Not resolved yet: bang bang mode and proportional control. A new remote would solve - like with PF.

or build your own remote ;-) Can be used with smartdevice, ESP, Arduino, Pybricks and so on....

Yes, and a wide variety in between. I know many users (no AFOL,Mocs etc) wo just have bought the Liebherr (or similar) and play around with it. None of them complains using a smartphone, the opposite is true. Even more: it is expected. Yes. Have a look what's missing. If someone wants to use a smart device to control a car there is no problem, I assume. If someone wants to use a remote to control a car there is a problem, which popped up with the 10277 "Krokodil". The remote only works in bang-bang mode for motors with encoder. Changing this (and allow to pair remote with technic hub) would help a lot. Or a simple new remote with knobs which can be configured (with small switches like the PF Reciever) (Note : PF had two remotes, too) Or a cable which decodes a motor always as a train motor. Thats all there. It's just irrelevant for LEGO how and where the BT commands come from. That's the idea of the PU System. Something that was a sensation with SBrick and BUWIZZ, and now it's declared as "wrong"? If you want to build complex Mocs (If Sensor = red then MotorA = Stop) then there is no way without programming - which can be simple. If you just have a windmill and want to turn it on and or vary speed - train motor . But the idea should be to solve this with simple things and not with a complex box or selling motors without encoders.

Okay, I think I quit. To me it seems rather impossible to "program" on such an RC-device with a small Screen, it's difficult enough on a tablet. (Configuration is ok) The really simplest is an ESP, which holds different progs and can be configured with any device via web-browser. And please note that the idea of PU includes the way to VM.

Yes it's all there. Just use a Smart device, perhaps with the Powerd Up App or BUWIZZ app or BrickController 2, perhaps with Pybricks, perhaps with BAP, perhaps with an ESP or Arduino. It's all there and all possible, foryears. And of course you can use all motors, just need an adpter for the cables. Whatever this "Control center+ " might be, you have to configure witch element (Buttons i.e.) influeces a special port on a special hub. Thats far more than "just pairing" For all LEGO Sets there are programs available. For a MOC it depends on the requirements. Even pretty simple looking things need some kind of "programming", if you want to use any of the features that PU offers. Sure.Exactly what I meant. And the "control center +" would be a special product as replacement existing solutions? There is missing just a cabel converting an encoder motor to a dumb motor.