Sandy

That's a great suggestion, actually! Now for the sylvan ranger. It's somewhat more unique than the other Veteran Classes, with it's ability to tame monsters, but I just couldn't figure out another way to properly buff rangers. Sylvan Ranger – These silent hunters deeply respect their environment, following the teachings of the Fey One. · Additional Health: +15 · Weapons: Sylvan rangers use the same equipment as rangers. · Job Traits: Animal Talk – Sylvan rangers are able to communicate with animals and monsters and gain information from them; Track Down – Sylvan rangers can successfully follow the traces of any person or monster they are after; Fellowship of the Forest – If there are other original rangers in the party, the sylvan ranger is hastened while the other original rangers become able to tame monsters as well. · Battle Style: Sylvan – Besides being great archers, the sylvan rangers can also tame monsters. 1. SHIELD: Ambush – The sylvan ranger shoots the enemy party 3-18 times with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level, ignoring all defenses as well as distance. The shots are divided as equally as possible among the enemy party, starting with the target and working down the list of enemies. 2. CRITICAL HIT/TAME WELL: The sylvan ranger attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, the sylvan ranger can tame one beast-, plant- or vermin –type enemy to fight on the heroes’ side for the next six rounds. If all other enemies are defeated within that time, the monster will give up their drops and leave the battle peacefully. Otherwise the monster will rejoin the enemies. 3. HIT/TAME: The sylvan ranger attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, the sylvan ranger can tame one beast-, plant- or vermin –type enemy to fight on the heroes’ side for the next three rounds. If all other enemies are defeated within that time, the monster will give up their drops and leave the battle peacefully. Otherwise the monster will rejoin the enemies. 4. AIM/TAME POORLY: The sylvan ranger focuses their shot to attack the target with strength equal to their weapon power only. Optionally, the sylvan ranger can tame one beast-, plant- or vermin –type enemy to fight on the heroes’ side for the next round. If all other enemies are defeated within that time, the monster will give up their drops and leave the battle peacefully. Otherwise the monster will rejoin the enemies. 5. DAMAGE/NO TAMING: The sylvan ranger is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, attempting to tame a monster fails. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/NO TAMING: The sylvan ranger is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Optionally, attempting to tame a monster fails. Tamed Monsters: Sylvan Rangers can tame beast-, plant- or vermin-type enemies for six, three or one round, depending on the roll. The tamed enemy will keep its level and health, and fight according to the sylvan ranger’s orders with the following skills: 1. SHIELD: The tamed monster uses their special skill. 2.-4. HIT: The tamed monster deals damage equal to their level to the target. 5. DAMAGE: The tamed monster is struck by the opponent’s attack. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The tamed monster is struck by the opponent’s special skill. If every other enemy is defeated while the monster is being controlled by the sylvan ranger, it will automatically give up its drops and leave the battle peacefully. If the tamed monster is defeated by the enemies, it will also give up its drops to the heroes. Otherwise the tamed monster will rejoin the enemy party after the taming period is over. Sylvan rangers can control multiple tamed enemies at the same time. Through the Fellowship of the Forest –trait, other original rangers can tame enemies as well, as long as they are in the same party with a sylvan ranger.

I changed Barbarian chieftain's Shield-skill to a more powerful version of Frenzy (which is a more boring option, but as you guys wish... ). And here's the archmage. I hope you don't deem his "Arcane Wisdom" trait too "killjoy"-ish... Archmage – These supreme spellcasters can bend the forces of nature to their will, just like the Doomsayer could. · Additional Health: +10 · Additional Ether: +10 · Weapons: Archmages use the same equipment as mages. · Job Traits: Spellcasting – Archmages can use spells to remove obstacles outside of battle at the cost 1 ether; Arcane Wisdom - Archmages can instantly solve any puzzle or riddle that they encounter, at an ether cost determined by the QM; Circle of Mages – All original mages in the party can use any elemental gems and scrolls that at least one of them possesses. · Battle Style: Cataclysmic – Archmages have perfect control over natural elements and ether flows. 1. SHIELD: Magic Cataclysm – The archmage conjures a devastating elemental spell to all enemies at the cost of 1 ether. The damage equals the archmage’s weapon power added to their level, multiplied by four if the enemy is weak against the element, and by two if the enemy is not. If no element was chosen, it will be selected randomly among those available to the archmage. If all ether is depleted, nothing happens. 2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT ARC SPELL: The archmage attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. Instead of attacking, the archmage can cast an elemental spell at all enemies with power equal to their critical hit, at an ether cost equal to the amount of enemies. 3. HIT/ARC SPELL: The archmage attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. Instead of attacking, the archmage can cast an elemental spell at all enemies with power equal to their hit, at an ether cost equal to the amount of enemies. 4. ABSORB ETHER/MEDITATE: The archmage transfers all ether from the target to themselves. If the enemy has no ether, the archmage meditates to regain 1 ether instead. 5. DAMAGE: The archmage is struck by the opponent’s attack. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The archmage is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

I can still work on them, but please look at the classes as a whole, instead of focusing solely on their Shield-skill. The High Cleric is much more effective as a healer, even if they cannot remove effects like the Druid can. Also remember that these Veteran Classes are supposed to be focused on a single function, unlike the advanced and expert classes which are more versatile.

Like Diplomacy and Intimidation, it's a roleplaying trait. Followers of the same faith are more likely to find a common ground on other matters as well, right? Here's one more: Guardian Knight – These stalwart sentinels will not let anything pass them, in the name of the Golden Dragon. · Additional Health: +18 · Additional Defense: +2 · Weapons: Guardian knights use the same equipment as knights. · Job Traits: Diplomacy – Guardian knights invoke trust in others, so they can talk their way out of dire situations; Aura of Honour - If all other party members have less than half of their health left, the guardian knight is bestowed with an aura that doubles their own health and draws in all attacks; Master of the Order – If there are other original knights in the party, the guardian knight is reinforced while the other original knights get +2 additional defense. · Battle Style: Indomitable – The guardian knight does all they can to keep their allies from harm’s way. 1. SHIELD: Invictus – The guardian knight takes a stance that protects the whole party from all attacks and negative effects coming their way for the remainder of the current round and the entire duration of the next round. 2. CRITICAL HIT: The guardian knight attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. 3. HIT: The guardian knight attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. 4. SHIELD BASH: The guardian knight fails to attack the target with their weapon, but instead bashes their shield at the enemy, causing damage equal to the power of their shield and stunning the enemy. 5. WELL DEFLECTED DAMAGE: The guardian knight is struck by the opponent’s attack. The power of the guardian knight’s shield decreases the effect of the attack and has a 1/3 chance of blocking the attack completely. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The guardian knight is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Of course it would work only on NPCs. Do I need to make that clearer?

Maybe I'll make Onslaught deal critical hits instead, but I think it's more useful than Frenzy in general, since it gives all party members an extra hit on their intended target. The B.C. himself might not be suited to attack all enemies, for example because of ill-suited elements in his weapon. I'll make his health +15 and power +5. He shouldn't be more powerful than the Paragon, after all. I liked the idea of Big Chief so much that I've decided to give all Veteran Classes a similar trait. Here's the next one: High Cleric – These marvellous healers defy even death itself, like the Miracleworker used to do. · Additional Health: +15 · Additional Ether: +5 · Weapons: High clerics use the same equipment as clerics. · Job Traits: Healing – High clerics can restore full health to anyone outside of battle, at the cost of 1 ether per person; Convert – The high cleric can turn any allied or neutral individual to their faith, gaining their respect; Your Holiness – If there are other original clerics in the party, the high cleric is transcended while the other original clerics are blessed. · Battle Style: Hallowed – High clerics keep the entire party hale and healthy thanks to their unwavering faith. 1. SHIELD: Hallowed Ascension – The high cleric connects with their deity, reviving all fallen allies and restoring everyone in the party to full health at the cost of 1 ether. If all ether is depleted, nothing happens. 2. CRITICAL HIT/ARCH HEAL MORE: The high cleric attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. Instead of attacking, the high cleric can restore health to all party members equal to the power of their critical hit, at an ether cost equal to the amount of party members. 3. HIT/ARC HEAL: The high cleric attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. Instead of attacking, the high cleric can restore health to all party members equal to the power of their hit, at an ether cost equal to the amount of party members. 4. MEDITATE/ARC HEAL LESS: The high cleric meditates to regain 1 ether. Instead of meditating, the high cleric can restore health to all party members equal to their level, at an ether cost equal to the amount of party members. 5. DAMAGE/NO HEALING: The high cleric is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, attempt to heal fails. 6. SPECIAL GUARD/NO HEALING: The high cleric is struck by the opponent’s special skill, but has a 1/2 chance to be protected from any negative effects caused by it. Optionally, attempt to heal fails.

Thanks for the ideas, here's my final take on the Barbarian Chieftain: Barbarian Chieftain – These eminent warriors lead their comrades like a unified tribe, just as the Walking Mountain did in his days. · Additional Health: +18 · Additional Power: +2 · Weapons: Barbarian chieftains use the same equipment as barbarians. · Job Traits: Natural Respite – Barbarian chieftains can rest even in harsh conditions, so they automatically recover health equal to their level after each battle. They don’t need bedrolls to rest, either; Command – The barbarian chieftain can order allied or neutral individuals to do their bidding; Big Chief – If there are other original barbarians in the party, the barbarian chieftain is encouraged while the other original barbarians are inspired. · Battle Style: Relentless – Barbarian chieftains hold nothing back, but attack with all their strength. 1. SHIELD: Onslaught – The barbarian chieftain fearlessly attacks all enemies with strength equal to three times their weapon power added to their level. 2. EXTRA CRITICAL HIT: The barbarian chieftain attacks the target with strength equal to three times their weapon power added to their level. 3. CRITICAL HIT: The barbarian chieftain attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. 4. COUNTER: The barbarian chieftain is struck by the opponent’s attack, but attacks back at the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. 5. DAMAGE: The barbarian chieftain is struck by the opponent’s attack. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The barbarian chieftain is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Any feedback is much appreciated, of course!

No there won't be any concession. You can't possibly feel discriminated by the fact that you can no longer deal automatic damage to an enemy that cannot damage you.

Which means that the battle was impossible to lose to begin with. Which also means the battle was pointless. This changes that. I'm happy now.

It is decided then: From now on, Counterstrike Gloves will deal damage equal to damage taken from a Free Hit back to the enemy. Loophole fixed (I hope)! Thanks to everyone for your contributions to this discussion.

The body of the titan fills the entire canyon so that the party has to climb on top of it to see what lies ahead. Before they can proceed, familiar noises from behind make them halt. "Oink, oink! Oinkity-oink, squeal! [splendid job, all three Threshold monsters are now gone! You guys shall henceforth be known as "Titan Smiters", in addition to your other title.]" "Baaah! Baah... [Now I can finally map out the entire Fields of Glory again! Just a moment...]" Billy the Goat soon returns carrying a map of the Northern Reaches, which seem to be located in the tunnels underneath the mountains. Hard: 25. Caverns of the Dark Dwarves 26. Golden Cave 27. Helvetia’s Cauldron Sanctuaries: N. Northern Sanctuary

Your suggestion would turn every battle into a "kill or be killed" situation, which is not desirable. Even though there are different builds such as tanks, damage-dealers and healers, it doesn't mean every person should only be able to do one single thing throughout the game. That's exactly why I hate playing MMORPGs - they rarely let you fulfill more than one function in a party battle.

No, the wait-out strategy should not be a viable option in any situation. I'm adamant about that.

If there's anything left to heal, that is. But anyway, I agree with you on your point, but it still does not make the loophole go away.

Here I am, trying to adjust the rules to prevent cheap tactics. And the rules have been in constant state of change for two years to make this experience more enjoyable to everyone. So don't say I'm not willing to adapt and adjust... What are you talking about? Endgame's boss battles have bended and twisted the basic rules near their breaking point! That's even more illogical than the suggested Counterstrike Glove change. How can forcing someone to attack be justified in-game in any meaningful way? Actually, I'm turning towards changing the Counterstrike Gloves. I didn't create the item, but it's really the basis of this loophole.

OoC: You don't have to do that. You can only be chosen to one quest at a time. CURRENT SIGN-UPS TO QUEST#85: 1. Atramor Gibbin, Level 30 Regulator (CallMePie) 2. Sorrow, Level 24 1/3 Assassin (Endgame) 3. Althior Emorith, Level 36 2/4 Necromancer (K-Nut) 4. Nyx, Level 28 1/3 Battle Mage (Pandora) 5. Tarn Valco, Level 24 2/3 Raider (Rumble Strike) 6. Tesni Hightribe, Level 30 3/4 Berserker (Peppermint_M) 7. Johon, Level 26 Raider (Bricksandparts) 8. Dreyrugr, Level 19 1/2 Black Knight (Vash the Stampede) 9. Bartholomew Docken, Level 32 1/4 Warden (Brickdoctor)

I work within the game mechanics I created. What's so wrong with that? Just because they're boss monsters, doesn't mean they have to feature some crazy new game-changing mechanic...

Game Host Note: This White Devil drink was not approved by me. No consumable should give permanent immunities to effects, they should always be tied to equipment. Getting 13 extra stat points is completely unbalanced as well. I do not accept the item.

Like I said earlier, it's impossible to balance enemies to suit all situations. There's usually just one hero with high SP in the party, so it would be totally unfair to the other party members to only make enemies that can hurt that single hero even if he was reinforced and fighting from back row - the others would have to resort to standing around or be OHKO'd. Quest#74 was a perfect example of this: Sarge was doing all the killing while taking hardly no damage at all, while the others got knocked out repeatedly when they got attacked. The heroes were quite evenly leveled, the only big difference being that Sarge had 24 SP. But I can live with this phenomenon. I cannot live with the wait-out loophole in this game. What makes you think I'm angry? Getting a bit frustrated trying to get my point across, sure, but why would I be angry over a discussion about rules?

Smarter enemies pose a greater threat to the heroes, I admit, but the battles in this game have lacked challenge for quite a while now. Just look at what happened to my poor Threshold Monsters... From a QM's point-of-view, I'm all for discouraging heroes to buff their SP too high.

But it's illogical! Counterstriking should be related on the hero's power, not on the enemy's power.

Only if they avoid attacking the enemy and cause it to get a Free Hit on them. It punishes cowardice, nothing else.

How will they become useless?! Like I said, this only applies to situations where someone has overly high SP - and it's unlikely that a party has more than one of those. The squishy mages can be put last in the battle order, so the sturdier heroes absorb the damage then. And the rule about multiple Free Hits grouping against a hero still stands, so if two enemies get a Free Hit on a hero with SP that would be too high for either of them individually, they still get their combined attack through. Listen, heroes can afford to get hurt. That's why there's healing classes and items in this game! You sound like it's unfair that a party cannot get a clean sweep on a boss enemy... Low enough? Are you kidding me?! SP is meant to absorb some damage, not nullify it completely!

How does it devaluate knights? They can still step in and defend the weak, the only exception being if their SP outnumbers the enemy's strength. And remember that this only applies to Free Hits. If a hero with overly high SP targets an enemy and rolls DAMAGE, the enemy's attack will still be futile. That would mean an automatic stale-mate. It's a compromise, but my suggestion would make battles more challenging and strategic, as well as potentially quicker. No, permanent ether boosts don't count either. If the person has no access to ether, it cannot be boosted. Nobody's forcing people to use their buffing consumables right away, you can always wait until you actually have ether.

No, consumables have instant effects. You can't take an aspirin and expect it to cure an headache you might have five days from now.