Deathleech

Ya, that is a fair compromise I think and better than some super distinct looking character in an army builder. I almost wish Lego would just include an alternate head and/or hair or helmet piece and then Eomer or Thranduil would be even less unique looking and more easily serve as a normal soldier.

I would take Ludzik up on this offer. Even after shipping that's still only going to be around MSRP (maybe a little less). That's much better than getting it for 50% over MSRP. You probably aren't going to find a much better deal at this point considering the set has been out over a year and a half and retired for several months now. Personally, I try to buy all my Lego on sale so I understand where you are coming from. Amazon is great for this with their 20-30% discounts that usually happen within a few months after a set's release. I hate waiting for clearances because it's such hit and miss. Sure you can get 40-50% off during them, but stores near me NEVER seem to have anything good or such clearances and I would rather not risk it. I have still managed to get all the LotR and Hobbit sets on deep discount minus the Comic-con exclusives which I don't bother with. I think I only paid full MSRP for a few polybags, Tower of Orthanc, and the Orc Forge. Even then I still got some decent deals. Orthanc I got during double VIP and with the free christmas tree stand set which I ended up selling for around $20 bucks. That made the total basically come down from $200 to 160. Orc Forge I probably got the worst deal on since the Targets around me don't have clearances often and sets often disappear over night never to be restocked. Everything else I have gotten was a minimum of 20% off though.

True, but this doesn't just effect people just buying dozens of each set to army build with. Even if you buy just doubles it effects you.

I am in Illinois, in the United States.

Totally. Especially if they removed all of the vehicles and used the pieces to add more arch ways and such, or just took them out and lowered the price $15-20.

I know this topic has been brought up a lot in other threads, but I figured it would be nice to have a thread to discuss it in greater depth. With that said I am wondering what people's thoughts are on army builders/battle packs that include a unique named character. I know a lot of people defend them because they say the unique character appeals to kids (and AFOLS) who might otherwise not buy the set. I just don't understand that mentality. Obviously if the army builder is the ONLY set to contain a character like Eomer people will get at least one of them if they are a fan of the theme since it's the only way to get him. Lego could easily circumvent this by just offering Eomer in another set like Helm's Deep. Sure it sucks for people who can't afford Helm's Deep, but it's no different for them trying to get Theoden, King of the Dead, Grima, Haldir, etc. who only appear in expensive sets. I think even without a unique character army builders would sell extremely well, and possibly even better without them! Lego just has to be smart about it and put special prints or molds in for the grunts which would be exclusively available in the army builder. That way they still have the appeal of offering something unique, but they don't discourage people from buying multiples because they don't want all the extra Eomers or Thranduils. Do kids honestly look at a set and say "hey, this set only has 4 Uruk-hai and 2 Rohan Soldiers, I'm not buying it cause it doesn't contain any unique characters!" I know when I was a kid I ALWAYS wanted to buy tons of soldiers, even if my funds didn't allow it. I actually HATED when companies would not do the grunts like Storm Troopers, Foot Soldiers, etc. I think Lego might lose out on a FEW sales of army builder sets if they don't include a named character, but I think it would more than be made up for by all the people buying so many extra because they are "true" army builders. What are you guys thoughts for/against named characters in battle packs? How do the children in your life feel about it, or did you feel about it as a kid yourself?

Yes, that would be even better! Like the Fantasy Castle battle packs that had 5 minfigires with just weapons for $15. That would be $3 per minifigure +weapons, not bad at all especially if it was the same price for licensed characters. Of course Lego could NEVER do this with LotR/Hobbit, even if they wanted to since other companies hold the action figure license and those would technically count as action figures. Maybe they could just get the LotR action figure license though since no one currently seems to have it? I think that would be a better seller for them than the current LotR line up of brick built sets, lol.

Ehh, I think his dream is a LITTLE more realistic. Your dream set has the price per piece at less than 1 cent, lol

Right, plus polybags are hit and miss in a lot of countries. Some countries never even get them. If you look at one of last year's polybags it was the Mirkwood Elf, yet we still got a Mirkwood Elf Army set this year which was loaded with elves. Sure they have different prints, but I think they were meant to basically be the same soldier because they share the same hood. Lego just didn't have the proper scout print yet and substituted it with the lime green "servant" torso instead. Lego already has a Lake-town Guard poly with the proper print and helm mold so I could see them re-using it quite easily. The only thing is... will the guards actually be the same combatants as the humans who fight at the Bo5A? deskp posted a pic and it looked more like the rag tag band of survivors fof Lake-town fighting than the actual guards (who I doubt are very large in number anyways). This would be ideal. It would allow people to more easily pick and choose which figures they get instead of being stuck with too many of one faction, or having to turn to eBay/BL to fill their ranks. Not everyone wants the same things. Some people might want a lot of elves for MOCs even though they arn't even into LotR. Some people might have no interest in anything but orcs, while others may want a mix with numbers closely matching the films (like myself). If Lego created 2 separate small army builders like this I would probably buy 10-20 of the good one and like 20-40 of the evil depending on the actual specifics. As it stands now, if they do a Bo5A army builder like UHA/MEA, I will probably only buy 10-20 total and just BL all the extra orcs I want. That's $450-900 if they broke them into two small sets vs only $300-600 if they do it like they have been. That's a $150-300 difference from me, before sales. Unfortunately this is probably just a dream like Alcarin points out.

This is very interesting and obviously a much more accurate measure of a set's value than price per piece. I always thought it was kind of weird some people just looked at the PPP, but not the actual pieces. Obviously a big base plate in a set is going to cost Lego (and us) much more than a 1x1 brick, yet both are considered one piece in the piece count. I would love to see this taken further. Gram counts for every Lego price range, for licensed sets vs non-licensed, and for all themes in general.

I would love to see a Gondor Soldier custom. Something like this would be amazing:

Yes, a little more orange, a little darker, and less pink would be perfect!

I really like this idea. I think we should save the best for last though. Obviously a Minas Tirith set is going to beat out a much lesser one like the Watcher in the Water. I think the tournament should start with the smaller and lesser seen stuff and build up to the stuff everyone has been clamoring for on these forums. So for starters maybe do... Watcher in the Water vs The Prancing Pony Lothlorien vs Mount Doom Something like that? Try to put sets head to head where the results will be close?

I have about 20 Lake-town Guard polybags I am willing to part with, and 10 Mirkwood elf polybags from last year. The Lake-town Guards are all still in their packages and never opened. The Mirkwood Elves were all open and put together but after that were never used, just put on display. I also have about 6 Thranduils I am willing to trade off. I am looking for more Uruk-hai (armored with helmet and chest, or just helmet), either loose and in new condition or the polybag versions. I am also looking for more Orc Hunters from the Attack of the Wargs set. If you have any of these and are wanting to do a trade please PM me or leave a message here. Thanks! EDIT: ALL Lake-town Guard and Mirkwood Elf Guard polybags have been spoken for. I still have around 4-5 Thranduils left. Still looking for more Uruk-hai!

Witch King Showdown Treebeard Encounter Balrog Duel Gondor/Mordor Orc Army (similar to Uruk-hai Army and Mirkwood Elf Army) Oliphant Stampede Minas Tirith Battle Ruins of Osgiliath The Prancing Pony Mount Doom Umm... I think that's all I can think of

That's just in the book. In the book Gandalf is lured to Orthanc by Saruman, who uses Radagast. Radagast also alerts the eagles of Gandalf's capture at the top of the tower, not a moth like in the films. In the FotR legofreak86 is right, there is no mention of Radagast whatsoever. Radagast seems like he would of made a lot more sense in the DGA set (based on what we actually see in the film, not the cut scenes). That could of freed up a slot in DGB for Bolg and left the TABA to give us Beorn in human and bear form. Of course Lego probably had no idea until it was too late. I am sure we will still get Bolg in the third wave so no biggie I guess.

They were all less than $3 a piece. I think the 20 Gundabad Orcs came to like $45 w/shipping and the 40 Mordor Orcs were 118 w/shipping.

Ordered 20 Gunadabad Orcs and 40 Mordor Orcs off BrickLink. Time to start filling out my orc ranks since Lego doesn't currently have any good orc army builder options

I dunno, I could see Lego making the tower with the bolt thrower on it. That way you can add it to your existing Lake-town set to make it slightly bigger, the tower wouldn't use too many bricks since it's just tall and slim, and of course you get flick fire missiles which actually make sense here and Lego LOVES to do. The scene would also cover Smaug's demise. Smaug is going to be a pretty big build alone so the scenery can't take up too many bricks to recreate it. The only issue is the minifigures, I am not really sure who Lego could include besides the Lake-town captain as exclusive who haven't already been done. Ya, I would prefer all generic soldiers and no unique characters. I have a feeling Lego is going to do something like give us 1 minifigure for each race and then the unique character will be someone like Dain or the Lake-town Captain. This would be fine if there weren't 3 good races Lego needs to cover. 3 races plus a unique character for them means 4 good vs 2 bad if they stick to 6 minifigures. That's going to suck considering in the books and films there are always WAY more orcs than good guys. Right now we have no good way of army building any orcs besides Uruk-hai without getting more good troops than bad, unless your BL them. This makes me REALLY wish Mirkwood Elf Army would of been done a little better. We already had the Mirkwood Elf polybag so did we really need 3 more hooded elves in that set? Lego should of done Thranduil, 1-2 hooded or ear elves, 1 in armor, and 2-3 orcs imo. That way they could of left a slot open in a Bo5A builder and included more orcs or dwarves or one of the severely under represented races. Ya, I was thinking of that. I have no idea if the Stag will how up again at the Bo5A. I know in the book they didn't exist. Horses were also never mentioned in the book so I have no idea if they will be in the film or not. Of all the possibilites (warg, horse, eagle), I think a Stag sounds the best. I would totally be fine with an extra minifigure or two instead of a large molded creature though.

Based on the past two "army builder" offerings we have gotten for the LotR/Hobbit, I think it's safe to assume Lego will just give us 1 unique minifigure, 5 grunts, and 1 large molded creature (horse, warg, etc.). What should the large creature be though? A warg seems redundant since we just got it in an army builder and got two in the first wave. I highly doubt Lego would do yet another warg. An eagle seems plausible, it's been used a few times in the LotR sets but hasn't appeared in any Hobbit sets yet. It may be a bit large for a $30 set though? I don't recall any horses being at the Bo5A so I doubt we will get one of them. The bats at the Bo5A were just normal sized ones, more like a cloud so I doubt Lego would do anything with them but who knows since PJ may be changing them. Personally I would rather not see ANY large molded creature and instead would prefer 7 or 8 minigifures in the $30 set. Give us 3 orcs, 1 armored elf, 1 armored dwarf, 1 Laketown soldier, and maybe an orc general? I really have mixed feelings on the Bo5A army builder. I feel like there are too many races to try and fit into a single $30 set. Just to get one of each puts you at 4 minifigures and that's not even including a unique character. Plus there should be more evil characters than good, based on the book numbers and the offerings so far, but that's hard to do when there are 3 different good races in a 6 figure set.

Would a kid really want to play with the Council of Elrond for that long? How many times can they make the chairs swivel and flip Gimli off the platform before they get bored? Are they going to have Elrond sit there and talk to the Fellowship for hours on end trying to discuss what to do with the ring? I think if anything, a Balrog set would be HUGE with kids. There could be tons of play features like an exploding bridge and stairs, and the Balrog with a "whipping" arm action. There could be some nice minifigures with a few Moria Orcs with their really distinct helms from the film. And then of course there's the Balrog who would easily sell the set itself (if done right). You pretty much hit all the ticks. Big cool creature? Check. Nice exclusive minifigures? Check. Lots of play features that make sense? Check, check! I think it would be an AFOL AND childs dream come true.

I have mixed feelings on the Desolation of Smaug. On the one hand, I understand why Peter Jackson added so much of his own material. The book is very light on details and lacks reasoning for a lot of the events that take place. That's understandable considering it was written as a children's book. On the other hand, I feel like PJ goes a little over board with some of the stuff he adds and it seems like he changes stuff just for the sake of changing it. I also feel like most of the combat action sequences are just too cartoony. I blame the rampant use of CGI which doesn't even look that good most of the time (bring back orcs in prosthetic please!) Spoilers ahead... I find it odd PJ decided to drop entire parts of the book, yet he expands on others. For instance the way the elves capture the dwarves. In the book the dwarves see camp fires and the elves celebrating and try to talk to them because they are sorely in need of provisions (they have been in Mirkwood for a long time). In the movie though, they totally cut this part out. You don't get a sense of how long the dwarves were really in Mirkwood like you do in the book. Mirkwood was also confusing because it was pitch black inside due to the sun being blotted out by the trees in the book, NOT because of an illusion cast over the forest. The Beorn's house scene was also changed a lot. PJ totally cut the feast and other events that happen, including the introduction of the dwarves to Beorn which I was really looking forward to seeing. You are made to think Thorin and company are only at Beorn's a day or two when in fact it's several days. Then you have the whole Bard smuggling the dwarves into Lake-town, about 20 minutes of footage... only to eventually get to the part in the book where Bard is warning all the villages about the prophecy of Smaug burning down LT if the dwarves enter Erebor, but no one listens because they are enthralled with the the gold to be had. And then of course we have the barrel scene where PJ added all the cartoony surfing and running by Legolas, and extended the scene well beyond what it needed to be. Anything with Legolas seemed too comical really with his movement. Like I said, it seems PJ cut or changed things only to make room for his own self created sillyness. I am sure the EE will have a lot of the stuff from the book put back in, it's just a shame it was ever cut in the first place. Now with that said there were several additions I DID like in the film. First off I liked how Bilbo seems much more reluctant to wear the ring than he was in the book. In the book he was slipping it on left and right, but now he seems very hesitant and can feel Sauron's draw when he uses it. That makes sense considering he is in and near Mirkwood and Dol Guldur/Sauron, even if Sauron hasn't regained complete power he is in very close proximity to the ring. I also really liked how the Arkenstone was given more importance. In the book it's a huge gem everyone wants, but that's it. In the film we are told it is the key to uniting the dwarf clans and it actually makes sense why Thorin is going to Erebor. He is going to steal the Arkenstone and unite the dwarves. In the book what was his plan.. go there and kill Smaug himself with 13 dwarves and a hobbit? I also REALLY liked how the black arrow used to kill Smaug was explained. I talked about this in the Lego LotR thread with Fives, I was hoping PJ would actually change this part. Either make the black arrow have magical properties, make it a huge bolt fired from a bolt thrower, or BOTH. It looks like PJ did in fact make it both. I always thought it was silly in the book a regular arrow with no magical properties and just a black color was able to bring down a beast as grand as Smaug. It would of been like Pippin killing a cave troll with a frying pan, or an Oliphant dying to a single sword cut to it's leg. It just didn't make any sense.

In the book the only dwarves that show up to assist Thorin and company are 500 Iron Hill dwarves under the command of Dain. This must be more made up PJ stuff...?

Is this how the dwarven warriors still appear in the film?

What, no dwarven soldiers!? It might be the only chance we get at normal dwarf infantry. I think Dain would be a perfect choice, he could probably look mundane enough to serve as a (second?) dwarf soldier in a Bo5A army builder.