Deathleech

They used some of the same molds and prints in both themes though. If the Hobbit had a larger budget, Lego should have used it to make more generic Middle-Earth stuff that could be used across both themes and then the LotR budget could have been used specifically to make LotR only stuff. This isn't even the real issue though. I wasn't really trying to compare them. The eagle being in the Black Gate set doesn't bother me. What bothers me is wasting new prints and molds on characters when there are much better options available. It was nice getting the Mouth of Sauron, but not at the expense of a Witch King or Gondor Soldier. Also, the Bo5A set had more good guys then bad and that didn't seem to bother Lego at all. The good guys were supposed to be heavily out numbered in that fight as well. As much as I don't like it, having Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli in the Pirate Ship Ambush set makes sense since they were all present in the movie. Kids probably love having all of them in one set. What makes absolutely no sense is having three different undead prints when they are in one set and then having ONE Mordor Orc print when they are in four different sets (and actually the torso print was used in six since it was used on the orc hunters as well)! I am all about getting the most bang for your buck so it is mind boggling why Lego would do all these prints for minifigs only in one set, then not bother giving us any other Mordor Orc prints when they are used so much. Or why give us the Mouth of Sauron who is only in the EE of the film for a few minutes rather than one of the main bad guys like the Witch King, or Gondor Soldiers which are featured prominently throughout the RotK?

No thanks. The set is already going to run $60. I would rather not have it be $100+ just to add a broken elevator (that never gets used in the show), or a stair case. We get the main location from the show which is more than enough imo. It will make a great display piece. I'm not even sure how a stair case or broken elevator would make this set more interesting? If you want more, you always can MOC your own. I would rather have the option to buy a cheaper set and add on to it than be forced to pay $100+ and get something bigger than I want just so I can get the exclusive printed minifigs.

So what are we talking here? Like orcs or goblins, but with a heavy focus on their siege engines? That look steam punkish? Will we have a core group of good guys all with specific names and traits (like Ninjago and Chima), or will it be more generic good humans vs bad orcs/goblins/trolls type of thing?

The thing is the Mouth of Sauron isn't even in the normal version of RotK, he is only in the extended edition. That means there are a number of people who have never even seen him or know who he is. I feel like Lego was trying to throw us AFOLs a bone with the MoS, but really it just perplexed us more since there were so many other figs they could have made. For instance they give us three different Goblin Town goblin prints and a new head piece, but then use the same print for every Mordor Orc which were four different sets (no armored versions, wtf?). We get three versions of Elrond and an Arwen, but no Witch King or Eowyn. Gandalf has the gray hair which looks nothing like it does in the movies, yet they released the Thorin/Fili/Kili version which would have been perfect for him in gray. The elf hair/ear piece doesn't even accommodate a quiver when elves are known for their archery. And sure pirate ships may sell great, but Lego gave us one as a flagship set for a wave when it was only in the movie a few minutes. Ships sell so well Lego is going to give us one over more iconic Gondor locations? These are just a few of the very questionable decisions Lego made with their Middle-Earth themes. I don't think anyone was expecting every character to get made. Heck, not even themes like Star Wars that have been around for over a decade have every character. What bothers people so much is we got a lot of lesser characters over more important ones. No one is really complaining about there being no Gothmog, Denethor, Guritz, Madril, Gamling, etc. Heck, if the line would have ended after one wave I doubt people would even be complaining quite as much. But when you get things like the Mouth of Sauron over the Witch King and Arwen over Eowyn it just doesn't make sense.

I plan on doing both. If I see some really nice looking 3rd party armor pieces that vaguely resemble Gondor armor, for example, I will probably pick up a bunch of those and then some plain black torsos and legs and random flesh heads to make my own make-shift Gondor Soldiers. At the same time I am hoping future Castle (and any other themes for that matter) give us some nice parts we can re-use for LotR. I'm really hoping we get stuff that can be used for Gondor Soldiers, Easterlings, more orc variety, and Haradrim (I know a lot exist for them already, especially thanks to PoP. It did give us a lot, it's just a shame they missed a few key characters and a key faction. What makes it even worse is they could have fairly easily switched just a few things up in their existing sets and they could have covered pretty much everything. For instance the Black Gate set could have been more like the Bo5A set in it's minifigure count. Battle at the Black Gates could have had Gandalf the White, the eagle, 3 orcs, 2 Gondor Soldiers, and a more generic torso and leg Gondor print for Aragon (along with a spare Gondor helm for him so he could serve as a third Gondor Soldier). They could have removed the Mouth of Sauron and used his helmet mold for the Gondor helmet instead, and removed the black horse to compensate (we see prints all the time only get used in one set, really no reason to use it again). The Pirate Ship Ambush set could have been replaced by a number of Minas Tirith or Pelennor Fields sets, any of which could have still included the Undead as well as Eowyn and the Witch King.

It's a set aimed mainly at adults, there don't need to be a ton of "play features". It has lots of other desirable aspects such as new minifigure prints, new printed pieces, great display value, and some decent parts. Plus people who love the show will want to have the cast in minifig form.

I have some older Space Blacktron minifigs, Castle Black Falcon figs, and Pirates, so it had to be something from one of those themes as I don't even remember getting the sets that had them in them. Which one exactly I have no idea. After coming out of my dark ages it was the first wave of the Lord of the Ring sets.

Aye, I know, it just looks similar to the wagon build but with an axe attached and the wheels removed.

I dunno, I was just thinking about Disney movies with Princesses (or females) as the main characters. For instance Frozen. What is Lego going to do, release Elsa and Anna in a CMF line? Or make a normal Lego set with them in minifigure form? We already have the Sparkling Ice Castle so there is no point in making that set again. Why would Lego re-create it solely to include minifigures instead of mini dolls? It would be the exact same since it uses the same Lego bricks. Of course they could do other scenes, but idk. You also have to remember Lego's main target is kids, NOT AFOLs. I don't see a lot of little boys clamoring to get princess minifigures. As for girls.. well they have the mini dolls which they seem to favor anyways. About the only ones minifigure princesses would appeal to is us AFOLs, and as we know Lego doesn't generally cater to us. Of course if it's a CMF line I could see them throwing in SOME princess figures, but like I said they would probably have to relate to the other figs in the same wave. For instance I could see them doing an Aladdin fig, Jafar, Genie, and then maybe adding Jasmine so they have the entire main cast. But ya, the CMF are usually heavily male centric anyways (about 2/3 males or more in any given wave) so I just find it hard to believe Lego would focus on princesses all things considered.

Haha, I love that sales pitch. "Look at all the exciting toys that this set can build"! A Wagon! A smaller wagon! A wagon with no wheels! And lastly... a pack for your horse. The possibilities are endless! Anyhoo, nice find

I haven't played the games, but I don't really see the issue...? Who cares if they gave a bunch of female characters the ability to jump high? That's not even something usually associated with women or stereotyped? I don't see how it is really negative either? I dunno, maybe I am missing the point since I haven't played the games myself.

Princesses seems kind of unlikely to me. Why would Lego make the exact same characters they already released in the Friends Princess line? Sure they would be minifigures instead of dolls.. but I don't see that being enough reason to include them in a CMF line or in normal Lego sets. I would think Pixar and classic Disney characters more likely. I could maybe see a few princesses getting included if they do the male characters from a movie though, but not a whole line of just them.

I would love to see the actual product. The CGI also makes it look like really cheap plastic in the picture.

Good point! Lego also has a vault themselves of MISB sets!

Does anyone else get the wind up bouncing toy vibe from that picture? I dunno what it is. The feet, the fact it's a bird.. something...?

That's what I was saying before about all the lion sigils or what have you not really seeming like the same faction. They are in such radically different styles and colors that one lion faction looks very little (if at all) like a lion faction Lego will pump out a few years later. It's not even that they use a lion head vs a full lion body for example, and in different colors, it's that some look really cartoony while others seem more realistic. If they were in the same style you could at least say that they are different divisions of the same faction or something.. but as is, they look nothing alike other than having the same animal as their crest.

Yup, the second LotR wave came out in May/June(official release) and then Orthanc came out around July/August the same year. It was still released a few months before the second Hobbit wave though so it didn't really feel like the big finale regardless of what was still missing from the LotR line. Ehh, we still got the eagle in two other sets besides the Black Gates. I would have rather seen a Gondor Soldier or two instead of the eagle. Heck, if Lego can throw in seven minifigs and an eagle in the Bo5A set, why not in the Battle at the Black Gates? Two more Gondor Soldiers would have fit PERFECTLY in that set and started to make multiple purchases of it more justifiable. They could have scrapped the Mouth of Sauron and his new helm mold to create a Gondor Helm instead. While we are at it, giving us a more standard orc helm would have also been much more beneficial than a number of other new molds we got instead of it. Why give us the orc ponytail, goblin cap, etc. when all of these were used in only one set? We could of had a generic orc helm that could have been used in a number of sets instead like Pirate Ship Ambush, Black Gates, Bo5A, maybe even DGB and MEA...

The problem is everything is unknown to us, lol. It's hard (if not impossible) to come up with any sort of equation when the numbers we have to guesstimate with have such huge varying possibilities

Ya, but it would have been like if they had Diagon Alley come out before the sets for the sixth and seventh Harry Potter movies and then never released any sets for said movies. That's basically what they did with LotR and the "finale" set. I know Lego released some stuff based on the RotK movie, but the line still feels only 2/3 complete at present moment due to some huge, glaring holes (Eowyn, Witch King, Fel Beast, Balrog, anything Gondor...).

It's pretty much impossible to estimate the odds without some hard numbers from Lego. I mean if every person can enter once per day, that's 30 entries per person in a month if they entered once every day. That means it would only take 33 people entering every day to reach your guesstimated 1000 entries per state. Of course there are too many variables such as how many people actually entered, how many days they entered, etc. Wyoming is the least populated state, but even they have half a million people. California is the most populated with around 38 million. Then you have to factor in how many of these people are actually fans of Lego, how many of said fans even knew about the contest, etc. I would say your chances of winning are extremely low. Like, 1 in 2,000 conservatively. It's probably much lower than that though.

Ya, I am aware its going to be significantly cheaper to ship within the U.S. or ship from one state to another. I have had multiple international orders though, and they all seem to be fairly low as well. Obviously not as low as if I were to have it shipped in the U.S., but still fairly close. Definitely not over $10. The France order was extraordinarily high compared to what I am used to. The nearly $2 handling fee didn't help much on the already high shipping cost. I dunno. He used an 11x14 inch mailer rather than the much more standard 6.5x9 inch one most people use for small orders. I know these larger bubble mailers are usually around double the price for the actual mailer alone. Why he used one I have no idea as the order easily would have fit in the smaller packaging. Maybe I am being bias since the France order also forgot 2 of the minifigures I ordered, but it just struck me as weird that an order from France would cost $10.21 and a similar sized order from Belgium (only 2 less minifigures) would cost only $3.36... almost a third the price *shrug*

It seems like most people really aren't a fan of the skeleton faction so I hope Lego doesn't waste sets on them. I would love to see dwarves, elves, dark elves, goblins, and of course humans (which are standard no matter what direction the Castle theme goes). Furthermore I would like to see all the races included in each wave, but obviously the humans and goblins would be the "main" factions and have the most sets each time. That way if you get into the theme late when they are on say the second or third wave, you still have a chance to get some of the factions in retired sets.

In the U.S. it has been the opposite. I remember getting all the original wave one LotR sets on sale for around 25-30% off a month or two after they were released. The wave one Hobbit, and wave two LotR sets also had some decent sales. After that they became less frequent and the amount discounted wasn't near as good. They went from 25-30% off to 20% off or less. Finally with the last Hobbit wave there were almost no sales. Looking at the sales tracker on Brickset, it appears The Lonely Mountain only had one decent sale since it's release. I'm guessing retailers didn't get near as much initial quantity of these sets and don't have them clogging storage warehouses so they don't feel the need to give as many/any good discounts to move what's left?

Ya, that is definitely a problem for the Witch King, but Eowyn can use existing hair and a new print and Gondor Soldiers, while not optimal by any means, could use the existing Castle helm (with the nose guard) and some tree printed armor or something to at least get us a thrown together Gondor Soldier. The Witch King is really the only one that absolutely needs a new mold. Lego could give us a new mold for him in a Dimensions set though (as they could a new Gondor Helm). With that said, it looks like two more LotR projects should be in the next review phase. Lothlorien has less than 700 votes to go, and Rivendell has 3200 more votes. Both would need to be huge $100+ sets so I guess we can count on neither being made before even hearing the results. Maybe LotR will turn into the next Zelda where projects keep making it into the review phase and Lego keeps allowing them to pass that far only to shut them down at that stage?

Prices are generally pretty good for me on BrickLink, but I try to buy within the U.S. so it's all sent in the same country. About the only time I recall shipping being high was a recent order I made from France. It was an order for 12 minifigures, but the shipping alone ended up costing 7.50 euro and then he had an additional charge of 1.70 euro bringing the total to 9.20 euro (or $10.21). Not quite as bad as your £8.20, but then again it is when most of my orders are around $2-3 for shipping. It probably didn't help he used one of those larger bubble mailers, the ones around the size of a legal piece of paper (11x14 inches I believe). I had another order from Belgium which was 4 less minifigures, yet the shipping for that order was a mere 3 euro. Not really sure how the guy in France had to pay triple the shipping charges when he is closer to me, but whatever. It seems like some people try to jack up their shipping charges to make a little extra money per order on the side?