Deathleech

Not that it is much surprise, but this rep said flat out the Lego representatives aren't given any info about upcoming waves. Looks like most those old reports where they said the LotR line was ending or getting more sets were just reps blowing smoke up people's bums?

Honestly I wish Lego would of taken a different approach to marketing when they obtained the LotR license. I have seen other toy companies such as Hasbro do things like make more limited runs of ultra detailed action figures marketed strictly towards adult collectors. I feel like LotR would of been PERFECT for something like this. Lego could of done a more limited run aimed at adults and gave us AFOLs everything we desired rather than doing what they are now where they are trying to please everyone (it would seem), but not really making anyone extremely happy. I mean are kids really that interested in LotR? It's a PG-13 movie and Lego is mainly aimed at 8-12 year olds. To make it worse the LotR movies came out over a decade ago so most kids that would buy Lego were not even old enough to see the movies when they were first released. Just look at the Simpsons theme. Rather than have normal 5-6 set waves they are doing a big D2C exclusive and a minifigure series. Something like this would of worked wonders with LotR I think. I brought it up before, but how cool would LotR CMFs be? You could army build, try to collect the entire Fellowship, etc just from one wave alone. I feel like most of the LotR scenes don't lend themselves well to being made into Lego sets. Lego does really well with small buildings or vehicles. Other than a few catapults and boats, there are next to no vehicles in LotR. Most of the locations are either HUGE buildings (Minas Tirith) or sprawling landscapes (Mirkwood, Mines of Moria). Both are hard to recreate when you have to meet certain price points. My dream would of been to see Lego cater to adults with the LotR line and done more limited production runs. Make 1-2 huge sets each wave, a creature or two, and then a CMF series. Give us 3-4 waves and they could of covered all the main buildings, all the characters, and all the awesome creatures. I can't imagine this wouldn't of been profitable. For example one wave could of had a big $200 Helm's Deep (basically what we got except more UHA walls built into the set and taller with Eomer), a $20-30 Treebeard, a $40-60 Balrog, and a CMF series of 16 minifigures. It could of had the 9 Fellowship members, two Rohan Soldier variants (maybe make one Gamling?), two Uruk-hai (make one a scout?), Lurtz, Saruman, and a Lothlorien Elf all armored out. Each wave could focus on one movie and given us sets mostly from it. .

Yet look at the Star Wars line. Do they even offer any sets under $15 that include named characters? Aren't they all pretty much army builders now? I agree that Lego needs to find a happy medium and satisfy all fans, but Gandalf Arrives really can't be that appealing of a set to anyone can it? The build isn't terribly interesting and you could get the same Frodo and Gandalf in polybags for $3 cheaper (at least here in the states) . You can also get them both in a number of other fairly cheap sets . I doubt most kids care what clothing Frodo is in as long as they can get him. For $7 more you can get him in sets like Shelob Attacks. I think most kids would want Gollum, Sam, and a giant spider for a mere $7 more than they would want Gandalf and Frodo with a tiny cart pulled by a horse? The same goes for Riddles for the Ring. The build was beyond lame and the figures are available in so many other sets it's not even funny (well at least Bilbo was). I think the Wizard Battle was the only really justified set because there are no other cheap options to get Saruman. At any rate, you assume that kids have no interest in generic soldiers but I don't think that is true. Yes kids want the main characters, but I remember when I was younger always thinking how lame it was when a character like Darth Vader was in several sets yet Storm Troopers were only offered in one or two. I always thought "what the heck, there is only ONE Darth Vader but there are thousands upon thousands of Storm Troopers in the movies so why isn't it the same in these toys!?" I find it hard to believe kids would pass up buying an army builder if it didn't have a main character. I am sure kids would buy at least one battle pack, which is the most anyone is going to buy of sets like Gandalf Arrives or Riddles for the Ring. On the other AFOLS probably pass up those sets since they buy the full waves and can get the characters in other sets, all the while they would buy DOZENS of battle packs. For instance I bought 1 Gandalf Arrives, Wizard Battle, and Riddles for the Ring sets. I bought over 10 Mirkwood Elf Army and 20 Uruk-hai Army sets. If Lego gave us a proper $12.99 battle pack, like I mentioned above, I could easily see myself buying at least 10 of EVERY one and as many as 20 or 30 of some like the Mordor Orcs or Gondor Soldiers. If kids REALLY need a unique character just throw in someone who looks common enough to serve as a general and can still be massed. There are PLENTY of these characters in LotR and the Hobbit.. Grishnak, Shagrat, Gorbag, Gamling, Eomer, Faramir, Madril, etc. Also I saw TONS of Riddles for the Ring clogging shelves when it was out. That set could not have sold well. What appeal does it have to kids? Are they going to sit there and have Gollum and Bilbo tell each other riddles from the film? I would bet they would have MUCH more fun with an orcs/elf or dwarf/orc battle pack. If Lego feels it's absolutely necessary to give us a $12.99 set in each wave with main characters, why not at least compromise and do something else for AFOLs and army builders? Make the $20 set a proper army builder and put the characters usually in it in another set (Beorn in DGB, Sam in Weathertop, etc.). Or at the very least give us a $30 army builder every wave like MEA and UHA. I feel like a lot of people look at army builders as boring and lame but look how well they do for Star Wars. Obviously kids and adults alike love them or they wouldn't release 4+ every wave. I can just see kids eating up an Easterling BP, or a Gondor one. Kids would love the amount of minifigures to bolster their small armies and fill out the larger sets, AFOLs could army build, and of course what MOCer wouldn't love more shiny armor soldiers or unique Easterling/Mirkwood Elf/Iron Hills Dwarf/ armor?

I don't think Lego even needs to cut any of the sets they offered. The past few LotR and Hobbit waves have been small enough that Lego could of easily thrown in 1 or 2 proper battle packs on top of everything. The battle packs could of been like the Star Wars ones and required minimal effort on Lego's part. Four minifigures and a small build for $12.99. How hard is that? Like I said in the Hobbit thread, I would of loved to have seen an Easterling and Haradrim battle pack to compliment the Black Gates set in the second LotR wave and a Mordor Orc and Gondor soldier one in the third wave. Here are my ideas for battle packs if we get three LotR waves: Wave 1: Rohan Battle Pack - 4 Rohan Soldiers. Gamling or some other higher ranking soldier, the soldier from the UHA set, and 1-2 more rag tag Rohirrim with either of the helms we see Eowyn or Merry wearing. Give them 2 shields, a bow and quiver, and a spear. Make a smaller wall piece to attach to Helm's Deep. Lego could of also gave us 3 Rohirrim here and snuck in an elf of Lothlorien. Uruk-hai Battle Pack - 4 Uruk-hai. Pretty much exactly what we got in UHA except smaller. 2 with sword and shields, 2 with halberds. Maybe a small wall ruin and the bolt thrower as the build? Wave 2: Easterling Battle Pack - 4 Easterlings. 1 captain and 3 grunts. 1 armed with sword and shield, 1 with bow and quicker, and 2 armed with spear and shields. All decked out in their cool gold armor. Haradrim Battle Pack - 4 Haradrim. The chieftan/Mumakil driver and 3 masked Haradrim. Give 2 bows and quivers and 1 a spear. I am not sure what the build could be for these two BPs, make a small add on to the Black Gate set? Wave 3: Gondor Soldier Battle Pack - 4 soldiers of Gondor. 2 Gondor Soldiers, 1 Ithilien Ranger, 1 White Tree guard. Give the two normal soldiers shields and swords, the guard a pike and shield, and the Ithilien Ranger a bow and quiver. The build could be a small wall of Minas Tirith, the court yard, or a small trebuchet that attaches to a bigger Gondor set. Mordor Orc Battle Pack - 4 Morranon Orcs. 1 could be a captain or lieutenant, maybe Gorbag? Someone that looks enough like a grunt to not discourage multiple purchases. Make the other 3 orcs decked out in armor. 2 with sword and shields, 1 with bow and quiver. A small catapult and rock would do for the build. If there are only two waves basically just combine most of the sets together and only offer 1-2 soldiers from each faction. While not as ideal, it would still be vastly better than what we got.

Yup, the potential was definitely there. The army builders would have been SOO easy for Lego to do for both Middle-Earth themes and I am sure fans would of eaten them up. Much more so than they did Gandalf Arrives or Riddles for the Ring, that's for sure. The LotR movies had such huge epic battles and distinct armies it just seems like such a waste to pass up the opportunity. LotR could of had 2 battle packs per wave and had one for Rohan, Gondor, Mordor, Uruk-hai, Easterlings, Haradrim, Ithilien Rangers, and Elves. A couple of these could be combined like the Haradrim and Easterlings, or Ithilien Rangers and Gondor Soldiers if we only get three waves. For the Hobbit Lego could of given us Iron Hill Dwarves, Mirkwood Elves, Lake-town men, Goblin Town goblins, Gundabad Orcs, and whatever else they see fit. I really wonder what Lego's reasoning is for NOT doing proper battle packs, or at the very least doing an army builder each wave? Even their $30 versions seem to be big hits? I know people have speculated it's a licensing issue, but I would just love to know for sure. I wish the designers or someone else could tell us why there are no battle packs and also why there has been no Gondor stuff at all so far? Those are my two biggest questions...

Right, and even those aren't anywhere near as good as the Star Wars ones where you get 4 minifigures for $12.99.

That sounds more supervillain than hero, lol

Link to that article? If the scene was added last minute after the films were split, isn't that further more the reason to do a Smaug in Lake-town set? Or maybe Lego decided to add that set later on as one of the additions after the split? If a wave is typically 6-7 sets and Lego split the second wave in half, that would leave one wave with 3 sets and the other with 3-4. Obviously Lego doesn't want to do anything under 4 sets as seen in the past three waves for the LotR/Hobbit, so maybe they added two sets after the split and one was the Erebor set? Maybe Erebor was done before and they slightly altered it to fit the new footage since Smaug in Erebor was planned from the start of the film?

Then why didn't they include the Erebor/Smaug set in the second wave where it would actually make sense and be pertinent? As is, Smaug should ONLY appear in Lake-town in the third film but we are getting a set with him in Erebor? I doubt he will be shown there at all in TABA. I also doubt most kids are going to be able to just drop $200 between two sets to recreate the Erebor AND Lake-town Smaug scenes. As for the Bo5A set, whether most kids can buy one set or multiples is irrelevant. As long as they buy one that is all that matters because that is how many they should buy of a set regardless if it is an army builder or not. The way I see it, an army builder doesn't need to sell multiples to be profitable for Lego. As long as it sells as many as a normal, non-army builder set it's just as profitable. Council of Elrond shouldn't of cost Lego anymore to produce than Mirkwood Elf Army but look at how many more MEA sets sold than Council. Even if kids only bought one of every set from TABA, that is going to be less money for Lego because look at how many multiple purchases they will be missing out with AFOLs.

I feel like Lego kind of does their own thing and has their own creation process that is much different than what customers expect. I mean look at how many people wanted a set with a Mumakil, Balrog, Witch King on Fel Beast, Gondor Soldier Army builder, Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, etc. Lego turns around and gives us the Pirate Ship Ambush, Orc Forge, and to a lesser extent Council of Elrond (people wanted a Rivendell set but I don't think anyone imagined such a shrunk down version). I don't remember a SINGLE person aaking for a Corsair pirate ship, yet everyone was clamoring for the sets I mentioned above. Sometimes Lego DOES give us exact what we want, like with Battle at Helm's Deep, but it seems more often than not they throw us a curve ball. A prime example is the third Hobbit wave. From what he have heard, it is suppose to have Erebor with Smaug focusing on the scenes at the end of DoS, a small $30-ish priced Lake-town, and a $60 Bo5A set. No one really expected ANY of this. We thought the biggest set would be based on the Bo5A, the $60 Lake-town set would have Smaug, and then the $30 would be a Bo5A builder. And why WOULDN'T we think that? It makes perfect sense! I know Lego has their reasons, and sometimes they are revealed to us (kids love pirate ships!), but a lot of the time things just seem to make very little sense.

Invisibility!

I noticed a lot of their sold out items have HUGE sale prices listed with them (which never seemed to of happened). For instance all the wave one LotR sets that they still have listed are sold out and show 50% off. I regularly check some sites that report deals and none of these were EVER mentioned. Even during Black Friday I don't recall any 50% off deals on these sets, only 30% on some? Why Lego would list a sale price on an item that is no longer available and never went on sale for that much is beyond me..?

Ehh, I would say the changes are pretty extreme in the Hobbit. PJ totally made up characters like Tauriel, gave characters who already died huge roles like Azog, and gave characters barely mentioned tons of scenes like Radaghast. I guess that's to be expected when you turn a roughly 400 page book (including LotR appendices) into three films vs turning a 1200 page book into three films. PJ really had to stretch the material thin and add a bunch of his own junk.

Azog was seeking revenge because Thorin cut off his arm. In the book Bolg was seeking it because Dain killed his father (Azog). Both were seeking revenge and hated the dwarves, just for different reasons. Personally I agree with Alcarin. I don't see much point in having both Azog and Bolg in the films. I mean I guess it's more personal with Azog hunting Thorin rather than Bolg just hating all dwarves/Dain, but in the end it's really a useless sub plot just added to give the films more run time. Honestly I was expecting Azog to die at the end of AuJ, or surely sometime in DoS. I thought he might be in the Dol Guldur Battle and die there. I wonder how it will work out in TABA now? Will Azog also be at the Bo5A? Will Bolg? Will Azog die before? So far we haven't seen any major characters die in the first two Hobbit films... the last one is going to be choke full of death!

You are looking at it from a best/worst case scenario though. I seriously doubt Lego would give us new Uruk-hai Scout helmets and Lurtz hair but not give us a new Mordor Orc print with armor/helm. When I look at these set threads I try to picture it as a best case scenario for each set, while still being something Lego would realistically do for each. Obviously Lego isn't going to give us Sauron, Gothmog, the Witch King on Fel Beast, and 4 totally new printed Mordor Orcs in full armor for $20. If you like the idea of Amon Hen more that is fine, but don't be bias about it. If Lego would give us new Lurtz hair and scout helmets they would surely give us new stuff in the Mordor Battle Pack. Also, what does Rohan have ANYTHING to do with this weeks match up...?

Actually it's SNES to us here in the USA as well. Famicom is what they called it in Japan. At any rate, cool idea! The turtles look nice.

While I totally agree that cartoons turned into live action/CGI movies seldom seem to work, I can understand why Hollywood does it. If they just released a really well done animated version, like the tv shows, how would it have the same impact? It would be little more than the direct to video movies we use to get. I think making them live action with CGI gives people the idea it's a bigger deal.

I think it really depends on what Peter Jackson did with him in the third films. If PJ kept it like the book where Bolg is the main one leading the goblin army and has a big duel with Thorin, Fili, Kili, and later Beorn, I think the chances of seeing him are pretty good. If Azog takes on most of these scenes then I could see Lego easily passing Bolg up.

Amon Hen might have a nice build, but the minifigure selection would be mostly rehashes from previous waves. It would be more Uruk-hai or Fellowship members we already have seen. They might do Lurtz in armor or a new Uruk-hai helm, but this doesn't offer the same appeal as a totoally new Mordor Orc print with new armor. So for me it's Mordor Orc Battle Pack again this week.

Hmm, that is strange. Like others said, I would guess the pieces are no longer in production or are in very short supply at the factory? That seems to be the most likely explanation.

Whaaat??? There was this set! It doesn't get much better than 5 minifigures with weapons all for $15 bucks. Even on BrickLink they are mostly under $3 a piece.

Wow, this is great! I love all the attention to detail. The soldier getting slashed in the face, all the banners, the chunk of rock crushing the guy, etc. Any chance we can see the other side of the wall? And also, I didn't know Arwen and Elrond were at that battle!

Well that was just one of many examples where they botch the pronunciation. Really though, he hasn't seen ANY of the X-men cartoons or movies in the past 20 years...?

I almost exclusively collect LotR/Hobbit sets, so sadly there isn't a ton of swooshing going on with me. I still manage to get a swoosh or two out when I send a dwarf or elf catapulting through the air though. There also is a lot of cling-clanging going on

Thanks Albus. There are of course other indicators pointing to this too like the total lack of Gondor-themed stuff, but I was just mentioning the Hobbit ones in this thread. I am really hopeful we will see a third LotR wave next year after the Hobbit one is released. I think the only thing that might have/will alter Lego's schedule is really poor wave two LotR sales. I just hope they realize wave two wasn't a terribly strong wave and don't do something like that prematurely