CP5670

They have to be exposed to the air in order to harden, and a cooler room temperature probably helps. I have most of mine on built display models. If I rub the hardened tires against other pieces, the substance still comes off on them, but they don't feel that sticky anymore by themselves. Yes, that issue is something of an outlier, but there are a couple of reasons why I think it's still worth a mention there: 1: This concerns not only that piece, but also others like this and this which have several, smaller dots on them. 2: There have been many complaints about this on EB in a quality context. There is at least a perception of a problem here, even if those marks are supposed to look like that. The issue is not the presence of marks (which exist on any piece), but the fact that they are big/numerous. 3: As you said, the issue is being fixed. The big glass pieces in recent sets no longer have the big mark on them. I don't know if this applies to the smaller glass though. 4: The molding marks on similar types of separable window glass in past, like this and this, were much less prominent.

I updated the initial post with the new observations so far, and added some things I had forgetten about earlier. This is interesting and may suggest that it's theme or location specific, since the light blay I have (mostly from Technic and City sets in 2007-08) has looked pretty good, at least within a given set. If you can capture the look in a picture, that would be great. Dark blay might be a more recent issue. I didn't see anything unusual with the dark blay 1x6x5 panels from the 7992 Container Crane (2008 copy), but I haven't compared it to parts from earlier years. Do either the panels or bricks look translucent to you if you try to look through them at a light source? Yellow, white, red and orange were the four main problem colors that TLG had identified. There were 7 or 8 "secondary" colors that were also seen to have inconsistencies, but which TLG considered to be less severe. Bjarke talked about this in his presentation, but I can't remember which colors were brought up there. I believe dark red and dark blue were among them. That set is from 1997. The pieces in the 90s gripped together more firmly than modern ones and do sometimes make "squeaking" noises when you press them together. Is that what you are referring to? I have that set and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. Yeah, the headlight bricks have had that problem for decades actually. I added that to the last section.

Nice to know that you found it useful. I think many people encounter these issues but aren't sure what they are seeing, so this thread should help clear things up. I figured I can link to this in the future whenever one of these issues is discussed on EB. You're the first person I've seen bring up dark bluish gray as well. Have you seen these gray variations before 2009? For the last few years both bluish grays have looked pretty good to me, but I don't have any 2009 sets with substantial amounts of those colors and the complaints on light bluish gray have all come in the last six months.

I remember seeing that site and picture before, now that you bring it up. In fact, I just tried building that setup and the axle stays in place surprisingly well with one gear. This would avoid the whole friction issue as well. The only problem is that the wheel would jut out significantly and make the whole vehicle wider. The newer RC and PF XL motors can probably handle the Super Car. It's been a while since I looked into it. There were several Lugnet threads on that issue back in the day and I don't think anyone found a good solution, but we only had the basic gray motors back then.

This is a guide to various quality-related problems with Lego, both past and present. I seem to have become the quality guy around here and often describe these things in isolated threads. I thought it would be useful to have a central reference for them. Some of the years given are quite rough, especially for older incidents, but they should give an indication of when a given problem was prominent. Note that actual Lego sets lag about a year behind production and Bricklink stores are a few more years behind, so it's common to see bad parts sold on Bricklink long after they have been fixed in manufacturing. This thread is meant to be an informative article rather than a place to complain. I would like to keep track of new developments here and would appreciate any updates on these or other issues you may have discovered. I'm interested in widespread problems here that are noted by multiple people, not the one-off glitches that occasionally happen. Color and opacity inconsistency Yellow (2002-present) White (late 2006-present) Red (before 1988, late 2006-present) Orange (late 2006-present) Blue (before 1986) Purple (2004) Light bluish gray (2007-present) Dark bluish gray (2008-present) Dark red (2005-present) Dark blue (2007-present) Green (late 2009-present) Reddish brown (late 2009-present) There is a range of consistency problems present in a variety of colors. The typical issue is that many bricks in these colors look faded and partly translucent. The Lego logos on the studs are not as clearly defined as they should be and the studs cast noticeably dimmer shadows on the brick plastic. This applies to a wide variety of pieces in those colors. An example of this can be seen here, although the appearance of the bricks varies with ambient light and is hard to capture in a photo. These issues go back a long way but became much more prominent at the end of 2006, when TLG switched from pre-colored to clear ABS pellets. At Brickfair 2008, a TLG engineer (Bjarke Schonwandt) confirmed that the first four colors are not meeting the company's quality standards, but claimed that yellow has been fixed in manufacturing and that the others should be also fixed by the next year. However, there continue to be reports of bad yellow pieces in recent 2009 and 2010 releases, even on new types of pieces that didn't exist in 2008. On the other hand, there are indications that white has been fixed in manufacturing. Yellow seems to have been affected before the other colors, going by some sets I have. Red and blue also had the same issues in the past, during the 1980s. The grays were not among the colors mentioned by TLG, but although I have not seen problems with them myself, there have been a number of recent reports about them on EB. Green has not had problems during the last few years like the other colors, but some of the 2010 sets are exhibiting obvious flaws with it, and the same applies to reddish brown. These color problems may vary with the theme as well as the location where the set is produced and/or sold, although I have not seen any correlation yet. Untextured slopes (late 2006-early 2009) All Lego slopes except for the cheese ones have traditionally had a rough, textured surface, but we saw a transition to slopes with smooth surfaces a few years ago. TLG has said that this change was unintentional and they reverted to textured slopes in manufacturing last year. They are still running through their stock of old smooth slopes, so we are currently seeing a mix of textured and untextured slopes in sets. Less common slopes like 2x4 or 2x8 are the ones most likely to be smooth. Dull edged plates (2007-early 2009) Some plates have blunt, rounded edges at the corners instead of sharp and well defined ones. This is mainly an issue with 2x6 and 2x8 plates, which can look bad if several of them are adjacent to each other in a model. I believe this has been fixed in production now, but there are still sets being sold with the old plates. Weak brick clasping power (2005-2008) There have been many changes to the gripping strength of Lego pieces over the years. Late 1980s bricks typically have a very strong grip, too strong for most purposes, but TLG steadily cut back on the grip over the next several years until a good compromise between strength and playability was achieved. It remained that way from 1995 until 2005 or 2006, when the clasping power was substantially weakened further. It is not clear whether this is actually a quality glitch or an intentional change, but the resulting pieces are considered too weak by many people and lead to flimsy models. However, there are reports that this issue has improved lately and the bricks in recent sets are staying together more firmly, although not at the 1990s level. In my experience, the weakest pieces usually suffer from some other flaw as well, either a color problem or the blunt edges issue described above. Plates and tiles are affected by this more than bricks, and lighter colors tend to be weaker than darker ones. Large plates and wedge plates in any color seem to have an especially weak grip on the bottom. Brittle and peeling stickers (1994-2005) Some stickers will peel off by themselves over time, and if you try to push them back on, they will crack and break up into many pieces. This only concerns stickers printed on white paper (as opposed to clear, transparent paper), and only ink in certain colors. White, blue and red components of stickers are sensitive to it, while yellow and black components are immune. This effect is caused by UV exposure, but the stickers are much more sensitive to it than bricks and can go bad quickly even in a dimmed room. Taping over such stickers seems to be the only way to keep them intact. I first saw this in 1994 Technic sets and last saw it in 2003 World City police sets, although it probably continued for a while longer. This was fixed by TLG at some point, since more recent stickers I applied in early 2008 don't appear to have any problem. Oily tires (1997-present) In 1997, TLG changed the material used on small tires to a sticky, gummy substance. The tires were usually packed with other pieces in the same bags and left a visible splotchy residue on the bricks. This substance does not come off under running water but can be removed with a soft cloth and alcohol, or by just rubbing your hands on the bricks vigorously. The tires harden over time and lose the stickiness if left on display for a few years. Last year, TLG switched to a rubber-like material that doesn't run off on other pieces. At this point, this problem seems to be specific to some locations only. The sets I purchased in the US after mid 2008 have all contained the new tires, but people in some other countries are still getting the oily tires in recent sets. Crumpled instructions and sticker sheets (2000-present) This has been an issue with large sets ever since TLG removed the plastic trays from big boxes in 2000. The instructions and stickers are no longer held in place by the trays and float freely inside the boxes, so they tend to get crushed between the parts bags and crumpled up. An obvious way to fix this is to put the instructions in their own shrinkwrapped packaging, which TLG finally started doing with some of the largest sets in 2011. Confusing colors in instructions (2002-present) It is often hard to tell the difference between dark gray and black in modern instruction manuals. This started around 2002 when TLG changed the appearance of the instructions, apparently in order to better distinguish dark gray (a color that was rarely used until the late 90s) from light gray. To make matters worse, the colors are not always consistent and can even vary between different pages of the same instructions, although this aspect of it seems to have improved in the last few years. Some other colors like blue and dark blue have also been mentioned as having the same problems. Large window molding marks (before 1985, 2007-2009) This is not really a defect as such, but has been the subject of many complaints because the molding marks look like bullet holes. In recent times, this glass piece has had a large blob-like mark on it, while smaller windows have four, small dots in the middle and/or faint circular marks along the edges. As of summer 2009, the first window seems to have been fixed, although some currently sold sets still include the older windows. Deformable minifig accessories (2009-present) TLG has recently been using a soft plastic for several minifig accessories that is flexible and has a brittle, waxy feel to it. It has been used for walkie talkies for a long time, but many other pieces use it now too. Several recent pieces made of this material have a problem where the part that the minifig hands clip on to is slightly too thick. Putting it into a minifig hand requires much more force than usual and creates noticeable scratches in the piece, and it can even cause fragments of the plastic to peel off. I have seen this issue on the tooth and spike parts in 5982 and the metal detector in 5984, and others have brought up the Atlantis trident, Castle broom and Pirate swords as well. Oxygen-sensitive white bricks (1989-1996) These look identical to normal white bricks but discolor much faster, in any ambient light conditions. It has been suggested that they actually discolor faster in the dark, although I haven't seen evidence of this myself. The yellowing is uniformly spread over the whole piece and is due to oxygen exposure rather than UV. Only some white pieces from that time period are affected. I have several 1990s sets (8839, 8858, 8880, 8480, 6483, 5581) that contain a few or many such pieces, but have not seen this effect in anything more recent. Many other sets from that time period don't have this problem either, so it may have been theme or location specific. This issue seems to be amplified if the bricks are exposed to smoky air, in which case a lot more white bricks are affected. It can even be present in MISB sets that were stored in such conditions, especially if the box looks grimy and discolored. This mainly affects 80s and 90s sets, when the part bags were all perforated and not airtight. It should be possible to reverse the discoloring by using H2O2 as described here, although I haven't tried it myself. Flaky chrome pieces (1996-present) The electroplating on chrome pieces tends to come off in fragments over time, revealing a trans-clear interior. This is especially common with thin parts like antennas, as seen on various Model Team sets, while normal bricks are less prone to it. Apart from the costs, this seems to be one reason why TLG has heavily cut back on chrome pieces in recent years. Printing discrepancies (all years) It is common for the prints on two identical printed pieces to have variations in their brightness and position. This was quite noticeable in the 80s, especially on printed computer slopes, but it improved a lot over the years. However, differences in print colors are recently coming up again, particularly in "special" sets with non-standard numbers which seem to be manufactured in different factories. See This thread for more information. Tough pneumatic hoses (before 1992) The pneumatic tubing used in various 80s Technic sets is harder than the modern kind and grips pneumatic nozzles very firmly. Over time, it will wear down the plastic on the nozzles, discoloring them and shrinking the opening in them. If left on a piston for many years, especially in a colder room, it can develop such a strong grip that it may actually tear off the nozzle if you try to remove it. In 1992, TLG switched to a glossier and more flexible tube material that doesn't have any of these problems and is still in use today. Cracks A few specific types of pieces are susceptible to developing cracks or breaking up after some use: 1x1 headlight bricks: The cracks usually form down the middle of the lower lip in the front. Lighter colors like white or gray are more prone to it. A single crack will not make much difference to its gripping strength, but multiple cracks will weaken it. 1x1 transparent round plates : These often develop many small, vertical cracks after extended use, but it doesn't seem to affect their clasping power. This only applies to ones in transparent colors, which are made of PC instead of ABS. 1x1 cheese slopes: Many people have reported cracks forming down the middle of this piece, if left on a model over a period of time. Strangely, only some people are encountering this issue, but it's reasonably widespread. Technic bushes and connectors (1978-1998): The older Technic bushes and various axle connectors like this and this can develop cracks when used a lot over time. TLG went through several revisions of these parts over the years before settling on the current designs, which seem to be stronger than the old ones. Space robot arms (before 1991): The earlier versions of this piece were made of ABS and the clip could break very easily. In 1991, TLG started making them out of a softer material that was more durable, which is still in use today. Old road signs (before 2000): It's common for the poles on these to bend or break after a lot of use. The newer signs made up of three different pieces are stronger. Bionicle socket joints (2006-2008): The socket joints on various Bionicle pieces in the last two or three years are fragile and break off easily, much more so than older parts. Broken functional pieces Micromotor (1993-1997): This may lock up if not used for a while. I haven't found any way to fix the 3 (out of 9) broken ones I have, and they are expensive to replace. Code Pilot (1997): A rare brick, but there are several Brickset reports of this breaking over time and not turning on. The problem on mine was simple to fix though. Damped shock absorbers (1999): The initial batch of these often broke after some use, particularly those in 8448. TLG was offering free replacements back then. Newer ones have no problem. Studless pneumatic pistons (2003): Some people have said that the top seals on the 8455 pistons have a relatively high failure rate. 8455 has been the only set brought up in this context.

Great review. This was actually my first Lego set ever. I got another, unopened one off Bricklink a few years ago, as I had lost most of the pieces from my original copy. This car is the same shape and design as the ones in the 6395 Victory Lap Raceway, so it goes well with that set. The only real con is the generic minifig. Yes, everything is printed here. The late 1980s was the best era for printed parts. Almost everything was printed at that point, including pieces unique to a set as seen here. The 1x2 Shell panels only ever appeared in this set, and the 2x2 Shell tile only appeared in one other set. It's hard to imagine that today, when we're lucky to see any printed parts at all in several themes.

The problem with those joints is that the wheel hub seems to rub against the white piece and creates some friction. This is the main reason the Super Car is hard to motorize. I think the joints only work with that particular wheel too. The modern 8466/Ferrari CV joints don't have this issue but look no stronger than the usual U-joints.

This set looks big and imposing. There are a few flaws but it still captures everything that was great about the old Space themes, more than any other SP3 set. The overall appearance is great and I like how the different modular combinations you can build actually look good. I think it's the first set to manage that since the Deep Freeze Defender. The only thing I don't like is those black fins on the back. I will probably move them forward or remove them altogether when I get the set. It's also good to see the interior full of computers and equipment, and I like the small windows on the sides. The design is not perfect with that hole in the back and another one brought up in the other thread, but they would be easy to fix. The cockpit should have had a hinge or something though as you said. The small enemy ship would have been decent if it didn't have the shooter on it. I like those shooters a lot more than the flick fire missiles, but it looks too big on that craft. Is the statue torso a sticker or a print? It looks like a sticker but I can't tell for sure.

I think the "sci fi" heading as it stands is too inclusive, and the forum would become huge if you put in everything that actually belongs in there. I brought up Aquazone in other thread, which is essentially a spinoff of Space, and numerous other themes like Alpha Team, Agents and Power Miners would certainly fit in. For that matter, if you include anything that "explores the possibilities of science and technology," then Technic and Mindstorms would be obvious choices too.

Interesting. They obviously aren't giving us the full story here, although it should at least silence all the people who say that clone brands and competition for Lego is bad.

Welcome to EB. I saw this program on TechnicBricks a while ago and it looked very impressive, much more sophisticated than MLCad or LDD, but I haven't had time to do a lot with it. The rendering engine is a huge improvement over MLCad in terms of both looks and speed, especially with antialiasing, and I love the animation mode for Technic models. The main suggestion I have is interface related. It would be great if the camera and other controls could be manually configured by the user. The zoom control feels a little odd to me since you have to hold down the mouse wheel while scrolling, and it's a bit strange to select pieces with the mouse but unselect them with the escape key. Does this support the STEP tag from MLCad, so you can create and view instructions? I couldn't figure out how to scroll through steps, but I might have just been missing something.

I can see the rationale for it considering the link to Alpha Team's underwater theme. If you need more stuff in the other section though, it might make sense to move Steampunk or Zombie instead. Although some Steampunk models can be like Space in overall concept, their appearance and colors are very different from traditional Space models, while zombies aren't really sci-fi at all.

Sounds great. The changes generally make sense and will prevent the overlap there was between this section and Other Themes. Also, I love that first space themed Cafe Corner you have there. One suggestion I have though: I'm not which which themes you are referring to here, but 1990s Aquazone is something that really should go in here, given how encompassing the new forum would be otherwise. The old Aquazone lines had a lot in common with Space in terms of overall design and stylistic aspects, which is one reason I like that the theme. In fact, some of them could be easily thought of as spacecraft if TLG didn't tell us what they were.

I like yellow only. Nothing wrong with the flesh minifigs in themselves, but it's an issue of continuity like gray and blay. I probably have around 500 minifigs, all of which are yellow, and they don't go together well with the flesh ones. What TLG is doing right now (yellow in in-house themes and flesh in licensed themes) is fine by me though, as I don't care about the licensed sets anyway.

By "common pieces" I mean things like basic bricks and plates. The darker and deeper yellow is the correct variety and how it is supposed to look, as opposed to the dull, semi-translucent yellow that has been widespread since 2007. TLG claims to have fixed this defect in their manufacturing process last year, but it's not clear long it will take them to clear the old pieces from their inventory. If they are telling the truth, we should by now see common, generic pieces in the correct colors and the bad colors should be limited to less common pieces. I have been doing the same thing as you with white, yellow and red sets, but the problem is that includes a lot of things. I still buy sets that I think are exceptionally good or find on a heavy discount though.

Thanks for the links. I see the cockpit holes, but they would be very easy to fix unlike 5971. Just replace the blue 2x2 tiles with bricks and put in Technic 1x1 bricks to run the hoses through.

That looks very nice, even better than what Bonaparte posted here a year ago. I need to try this out at some point. I have a number of rare white bricks that have yellowed over time due to oxidation, independently of any UV exposure. I think people have used the H2O2 on printed parts without any problems. Not sure about the other stuff though.

Thanks for the in-depth review. This set has always looked like a must-have to me, but then I read this: Yay for bad quality. This set seems to be nearly perfect otherwise, but I'm not going to pay $90 for the same kind of yellow bricks that we've been seeing for the last two years. Is the yellow at least consistent between identical pieces? If the more common pieces are a darker yellow, then that would be a good sign for the future.

I came around 10 on Friday in the past, and there was still a lot of MOC setup remaining at that point. I'm from that area though and the hotel is a 30 minute drive from my parents' house, so I stay at their place. It may make sense to come on Thursday if you are staying in the hotel. Speaking of that, one thing I've learned is to not start taking pictures too early, or you may get a lot of unfinished models in the photos. I ended up with many of those in 2006. Friday evening is probably the best time for pictures, as most things are built up by that point and you don't get the huge weekend crowds coming in the way.

Yes, it's easy to see why that has happened, and they certainly aren't the only company moving away from print advertising. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest advantage of the catalogs is the fact that they remain static and acquire a collector value over time. I was looking through some old mid-90s S@H catalogs a few days ago. Old content on the website gets deleted after a while and cannot be reliably accessed after that.

I think the biggest SP3 set is very comparable to the classic space flagships, at least from what I've seen in the instructions. It's the smaller sets that look weak. We're overdue on one of these now. They used to release them every 5-6 years, but now it has been 10 years without any super car (8 if you include 8466).

I use Lugnet for old sets, Brickset for more recent sets, Peeron for parts, and Brickfactory and the S@H service site for instructions. Brickset has better images and reviews, but it doesn't show the original prices for a lot of old sets like Lugnet. Granted, Lugnet is missing a number of them too and is not entirely reliable even when they are available, but it's nice to have some baseline for it. Any discrepancies in the release year are probably due to different locations. Many of the early Futuron sets for example were released in Europe a year earlier than in North America. For Space sets, I've found it to be 1992 in a variety of countries. Blacktron 2 sets with 1991 catalogs have solid studs, and those with 1992 catalogs have hollow studs. SP2 and later themes always had hollow studs. Coincidentally, that was the same year that we first saw special (i.e. not the generic smiley face) heads in Space.

More in-house themes. I don't care at all about the licensed sets as such and only have a couple of SW sets from over the years (and only two that were more than $10). At the same time though, it has to be admitted that the sets have introduced many new and useful pieces for MOCs. Even if I never buy the sets, the new parts are widely available on Bricklink. One thing though is that many of these new pieces were printed parts. With TLG's emphasis on cost cutting and the disappearance of printed parts these days, I don't know how much of this we'll see with licensed themes in the future.

In my experience, it's better to actually have less steps if you want to build fast, so you don't spend much time flipping through pages.

Great description of this set. This was the only Ice Planet set I had as a kid, although I got the rest of the line later on. And yeah, some of those kids in the Lego club catalogs look pretty insane. Yes, the bricks back then had a much stronger grip than modern pieces. This type of brick actually lasted well into 2006 and has only changed in the last few years. They were still looser than the ones in the late 80s though, which probably gripped together too firmly. It's also worth checking out the white bricks in this set and comparing them to modern ones. The difference is remarkable, and not in a good way. I do this all the time. This one isn't all that expensive actually, given its age. The Ice Planet sets came just after that early 90s era, beyond which ebay prices for MISB sets tend to suddenly rise sharply. I got an unopened one for something like $12 a few years ago on ebay.