TheCosmicTravelers

There is a tiller. Smaller vessels usually had these instead of a wheel.

Yes but a large castle is iconic for the Castle theme as a large exploration spaceship is for Space. What is most iconic for the Pirates theme are the ships, not the fortresses. I feel like there should be a few sizes/types of ships available: a small sloop (a la Renegade Runner), a medium (merchant?) ship, a large iconic Pirate ship, and a UCS-scale Imperial frigate. Of course, these will likely be rather expensive (both to manufacture and purchase) and may not sell well either but I imagine that well-made ship sets also appeal as display pieces in a way that many other LEGO sets do not. If the ships are there, only then will fort, port, and/or pirate hideout sets sell.

The problem with Eldorado is that it is essentially in isolation (with the exception of the Creator Pirate ship and few small random one-off sets like 40597). A soldier fort is all well and good but I think sailing ships from several factions will always be more fun and a fort/port set would really work only as part of the world-building for a Pirates theme rather than as a one-off set. In my opinion, one issue with past Pirate revivals has been too much focus on random small land structures rather than on the ships themselves (I understand this is a cost issue) - I feel like kids would find ship chases/battles to be more captivating than multiple small fort and pirate hideout structures.

One must also remember that the Royal Navy uniform was blue (once this was standardized in the 18th century) and the Royal Marines and British Army uniforms were red, thus allowing both to belong to the same faction. This is even visible in some sets of the 2009 wave, with both 6242 and 10210 including Redcoats (presumably Royal Marines) led by a Bluecoat leader. Also consider the film Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl with the Redcoats Murtogg and Mullroy under the Bluecoat Commodore Norrington.

No matter how well-armed one’s ship was, I doubt most pirates would have actually wanted to engage in a battle with Imperial warships (unless it was a treasure ship). In addition to the higher risk of death and destruction, the large crew necessary to operate all of the guns well means any booty would need to be divided among more bodies. Marking one’s ship blatantly as a pirate ship is also just asking for trouble from the authorities. It’s just bad business. Also one must consider that potential targets would also easily notice pirates coming from far away and would thus take evasive/defensive maneuvers earlier, making any pirating more difficult (especially if their ship is faster and more maneuverable than your lumbering warship weighed down by all that cannon, shot, powder, and gun-crew).

One thing that I didn't really notice about the SES until I had built it is that the side windows of the stern cabin are completely open - there are no shutters! I also don't like how the mizzenmast is so far aft - this mast would have little stability in reality. I really appreciate that the remake of the Barracuda from Pirates of Barracuda Bay added a spanker sail to the mainmast - I always felt something was missing from BSB's sail plan.

6266 Cannon Cove is one of my favorite small Imperial sets simply because it looks more like what I think forts at the time actually looked like (well at least part of a fort)! Too often I see Imperial fortress MOCS with high castle walls like it is still the Middle Ages when the ongoing development of artillery actually led to massive redesigns in fortifications. I just wish the set came with another soldier or two (the Imperial Guard sets in general came with too few soldier minifigs compared with the Imperial Soldier sets). I think 6277 (a port with docks) is a more fun and dynamic set than 6276 (a fortress) even though 6276 may have more solid structures. 6277 also has far better alternate models than 6276.

Since my first ship was 6280 Armada flagship (technically 10210 with its 3 square-rigged masts is the only true 'ship' of all the LEGO Pirates vessels), I hopefully can claim some objectiveness in my assessment of these two ships as I have specific no nostalgia for either. As a side note, I think the US names for both sets are ill-fitting as 6274 (Caribbean Clipper) is in no way a clipper (a long narrow sailing ship built for speed) and 6271 (Imperial Flagship) is a laughable excuse for a flagship (it does make for a fine pirate/pirate-hunting ship). As many have noted, 6274 is wider than 6271 since it uses the 16-stud wide hull pieces found on larger ships. These pieces allow placement of two cannons on both port and starboard sides with space between. I do like being able to arm both sides of the ship although 6274 only includes 2 cannons. The wider bow and stern pieces are also more conducive for storage/cabins as internal space is more limited in the narrower 12-stud wide pieces used by 6271, exacerbated by narrowing at the ends. I also prefer the fully brown coloring of the wider hull pieces versus the brown with topped with dark grey used for the narrower hull pieces (I think dark grey makes for an ugly upper hull/deck color). That being said, while both sets only use a single middle hull piece, the use of more narrow hull pieces for 6271 makes it look faster and more maneuverable next to the comparatively tubby 6274 (there is a reason actual clippers had sharp sleek lines). Another major point of comparison is the sail plan/rigging. 6271 is recognizably a sloop, albeit one with a large square sail immediately in front of the fore-and-aft mainsail instead of above it (as more correctly seen in 6277's merchant vessel). Another quibble I have with 6271’s setup is that the rigging arrangement at the bow precludes the simple addition of a figurehead. While 6274 has a proper figurehead, its sail plan/rigging is incomplete and makes no sense without some modifications. The rear mast, while potentially useful, only serves as a rigging attachment point and a flagpole for the large Imperial Soldiers flag. Without any sails, it is essentially dead-weight, increasing drag and slowing an already slowly built ship further. The placement of the 2nd mast is also problematic as it should technically go down to the bottom of the hull for stability but its location at the very front of a completely open rear cabin makes the lack of a lower portion conspicuous (stacking some round 2x2 bricks and tiles with 2x2 square tiles at either end offers a simple fix although this impedes attempts to build a front wall to enclose the rear cabin). Since the aft mast is too small to replicate the double sails on the foremast and an official blue striped fore-and-aft square sail (like the spanker on 21322’s ship) does not exist, a triangular lateen sail like that on 6280 is the simplest addition using an additional headsail and a yardarm construct similar to 6280 (note: 6280's triangular sail has thinner blue stripes than 6274's and is placed backwards in most set images). The placement of this yardarm is a bit tricky, however, as it should be attached at the mast's middle attachment point but this places the bottom of the sail too low such that it interferes with the ship’s wheel and minifigs on the stern deck. It is thus necessary to elevate the sail further up the yardarm and/or elevate the yardarm itself by a few stud heights. In addition, the single shroud rigging placed aft of 6274’s foremast makes little structural sense as shrouds also function as standing rigging providing support to the mast and thus need corresponding rigging on the opposite side for counter-tension. In addition, the placement of shrouds in the middle of the deck (instead of along the sides as normal) impedes space/movement on the deck. A few more criticisms of 6274 are the downward opening gunport flaps (which would get caught by waves and increase drag/get shorn off) and the proportional shortness of the stern deck. Since the stern deck is wider than it is long, the side walls of the cabin beneath do not have any windows and most attempts to build a front wall to enclose this cabin look proportionally off due to the abruptness of the height increase relative to hull length and width. While 6271 fixes most of the issues with 6274, its stern cabin space is mostly occupied by a mechanism that turns the rudder when the ship’s wheel is turned. A single stern window is present for appearances as it simply opens onto the already open stern deck. Here, I think 6274’s stern with its double windows looks superior. 6274’s color scheme also looks more attractive than 6271’s due to the presence of yellow and blue highlights and the lack of dark grey, though I do love 6271’s tan sails. In addition, 6274 has a lowering anchor, an opening forward hatch, partitioned cannonball storage areas between port and starboard guns, and more weapon clips. I also prefer 6274’s more homogenous crew wearing tricornes (shakos became common military headwear almost a century after the Golden Age of Piracy; also blue was the traditional color of naval uniforms (including the Royal Navy)). In conclusion, I feel 6271 is the better set as I did not feel the need to make any extensive modifications to it as I did for 6274. 6274 has more space, more detailing, a more attractive color scheme, and a better crew than 6271 but suffers greatly from proportion and design issues. While some relatively simple mods can fix 6274 to an extent, I feel like fully addressing its issues would essentially result in a recolored 6285, thus losing the set’s character in the process.

I also voted for 6277 as it is the closest set to a proper port and is one of the few Pirates set that depicts civilians and merchants rather than just Pirates/soldiers/Islander factions

Although the truncated governor's office is my main criticism with the set, there are several other small changes from the original set that I dislike. The openings in the walls are now too small for cannons (even most brick-built ones). Moving the crane tower back from the corner leaves an unsightly gap in the walls as well as making the steps going up from the dock now have an awkward turn at the top. This opening looked much better in the original set as the crane tower itself essentially acted like a gate structure for this alternate entrance. I also don't like how the ship's sail arrangement has been altered from a topsail sloop to a spanker sail that looks both too small and too high. On the other hand, I think the newer set improved on the front cannon emplacement (which was horribly exposed in the original set) and the crane itself looks and works a lot nicer (even if it is a bit oversized for minifigs). I actually like the inclusion of the ship instead of another row boat (though this likely precluded the inclusion of a small Imperial flag) but feel a merchant sailor would have been more appropriate. I wonder if 6277 might not have been a better choice for a remake as a bustling port with docks may have proven more popular than a smallish (at least in comparison with both recent pirate ships) fort.

There are 2 different MOCs on Rebrickable (both free) that address this flaw, if you want some inspiration. The other major flaw I have with this set (besides having too few soldiers) is that awkward gap in the walls in front of the crane tower - one can easily close it with some extra bricks, plates, and tiles to fill in the gap but then the stairs leading up from the dock are pointless (and defensively questionable). Either a small gate needs to be placed here or the crane tower itself needs to be moved forward to act as the 'gate' (as in the original Eldorado Fortress).

I think part of the problem is the type of Pirates set. For many people, a largish pirate ship is attractive and iconic (both for play and display). Putting aside nostalgia for past sets/themes, something static like an Imperial base or a Pirate hideout would likely only be of interest to the general population as a world-building setting for the pirate ship to interact with (e.g., somewhere to raid/rescue prisoners/store your booty) - you still need to have a pirate ship for these sets to reach their full potential (aside from those interested in fortifications). At the moment, the only easily available pirate ship is the Creator 3-in-1. After the pirate ship, the next logical set would to be have a large Imperial/Armada ship (such as a frigate or galleon) as an opponent. In my opinion, it is important that this ship be larger than the pirate ship as it allows the player to sympathetically view the Pirates as the scrappy underdogs. Ship to ship chases/combat are far more iconic in the public eye than having the pirate ship interact with a static base. If LEGO were inclined to go further, a large civilian merchant vessel would also be a nice set, both as a display piece (for those that like models of sailing boats) and as a target for the pirate ship to attack. Detailed sailing ships (both military and civilian) are likely the type of Pirates set that would have the most widespread appeal independent of a pirate ship and Pirates setting. Unfortunately, for these ships to be sufficiently detailed to be good display pieces, they would probably be priced way too high for them to be affordable for the general public; perhaps minifig packs could be sold separately from the actual ship sets to help lower prices and satisfy both those only wanting ships as display pieces and those wanting army-builders?

I take it back; looking at illustrations of galleons (and the Black Pearl from Pirates of the Carribbean), this sail arrangement was in fact used. I guess I am just used to seeing lateen sails on their own.

I love it! One small criticism: I don't think the sail arrangement of the mizzenmast (square sail above a lateen sail) looks particularly nice. Either replace the lower triangular sail with a quadrilateral spanker sail (as on the Barracuda Bay ship's mainmast) or remove the upper square sail and use a larger triangular sail (as on 6286).

@thewatchman For 6286, the gray is a unfortunate side-effect of those hull pieces. The green gunport covers do add a welcome splash of color to the model; I'm not sure what other colors available at the time would have worked here (blue or yellow similarly don't fit the color scheme, black or grey look too drab, red may be a bit too much, perhaps white??). My main issues with the 6286 are that the mizzenmast is set too far aft (masts should continue down below decks for stability but this one is located on the overhanging part of the stern deck) and the side windows of the cabin are completely open.

A medium/large civilian merchant ship for the pirates to rob comes to mind (the closest official one we have is the small ship in 6277 (the remake ship in 10320 can also work if a civilian crew is provided)). Speaking of 6277, a large port (with docks, cranes, and warehouses) that is not directly part of a soldier fortress would also be nice. @Mazin: Exactly, pirate ships would not have been large warships like many MOCs that I see - for one thing those would likely be too slow/unwieldy to catch most prey and the large crew needed to man such a vessel would be expensive (both in terms of necessary supplies/provisions and in terms of dividing up any booty/plunder into shares)!

Tricky question, the best LEGO Pirates ship for me is a tossup between 21322 and 6286, but the best LEGO pirate ship (as in a ship for pirates to use) is probably ironically 6271 - it looks fast, maneuverable, well armed, and is still somewhat small (smaller vessel => shallower draft enabling hiding in/fleeing to shallower waters; also requires less crew to sail => more available for fighting/boarding and less splitting of the booty!)

Option B as painting the upper hull of warships black seems to have been common in many navies at the time. Wood regularly exposed to the elements (like that used for the hulls of sailing ships) would definitely have been tarred or painted for waterproofing/protection. Although then I would be tempted to change the gundeck stripe from white to yellow and recolor some of the yellow accents to blue or black.

I vote for the Barracuda, since it can be easily reconfigured as a sailing ship which looks and plays better than a fortress! Genuinely curious, what color(s) would wooden docks in the 18th century Caribbean have been in real life (thus limiting wood type and wood treatment techniques to what would have been available)? Modern wooden docks tend to be some shade of brown but I don't know how much this color is due to some sort of staining/painting that keeps/makes the wood that color. I don't live near an ocean and the few wooden docks I can personally recall were generally old/weathered and thus more of a greyish color. I assume a well-maintained wooden dock in the past would have been painted or otherwise tarred somewhat regularly for protection (which also raises the questions of what paint colors would have been used for something utilitarian like a dock in the past and what role do more modern aesthetic tastes play in our expecting wooden things to look "naturally" brown as opposed to being painted with a different color)?

One of the things I dislike most about many LEGO ships (and plenty of MOCs) is that pronounced aftercastle. If not designed properly, it can look like an unaerodynamic box was just plopped onto the stern. On real sailing ships with elevated sterncastles (post-middle ages), there was usually a gradual increase in elevation, with a partially elevated quarterdeck (containing the ships' wheel) between the lower main deck and the fully elevated poop deck. Placing the ship's wheel on this intermediate height deck could also fix another issue I have with many official LEGO ships - placing the ship's wheel on the high poop deck often results in the mainsail blocking the forwards view of the helmsman! While the multiple decks are often dispensed with for simplicity, well designed LEGO ships may attempt to hide the abrupt increase in deck height by adding something along the sides to mimic this gradual increase (I think the original 6285 Barracuda does a much better job at this compared to 10210 Imperial Flagship). Alternately, the stern deck may only be partially elevated (i.e., less than a minifig's height) or not elevated at all (as seen in the clean lines of a frigate). I imagine partially elevated stern decks may not be very popular with designers due to the difficulties in also having a pleasant minifig-accessible stern cabin underneath (though enclosed decks were often rather cramped in real life and may have had hatches that necessitated ducking to pass through).

I recently built this set and here are a few thoughts and comparisons with the original 6276. While some major improvements have been made, some new issues have also unfortunately been introduced. I like the modular system with its underground chamber/tunnel system although I do wish it was a bit less haphazard. The crane (though a bit too high for minifigs to operate) looks and works a lot better than the extremely basic crane in the original set. The lowest cannon turret also looks far better than the unsightly exposed cannon in the original set. Like many, I dislike how the remake truncated the governor’s office and upper tower. Fortunately, Trikus has released free instructions for upgrading this section on Rebrickable, although I think the crenellations at the rear of the governor’s office are too low (this was an issue with the original set as well) and the front window is now set too high in the MOC (luckily, these are both easy enough to change). There is now an unsightly gap in the walls at the front right corner of the fortress. There was an opening here in the original set as well but there the dock steps directly led to the crane tower with its columns and arches framing the entrance into the fortress. This arrangement looks far better than the remake, which now just has an awkward gap at the corner of the walls (the crane tower has been moved back a bit so that it no longer stands directly at the corner). The regular openings in the walls have also been modified from inverted teardrops to slits. These openings are now unfortunately too small/narrow for placing cannons (even smaller custom-built ones) for a more armed fortress. The included sloop is a good recreation of 6277’s merchant ship, but I think LEGO missed an opportunity by not including a merchant sailor minifig like in 6277 as this ship does not otherwise really look like a bluecoat vessel decoration-wise. I do not understand the alterations made to the sail arrangement as 6277’s sail rig made sense as a topsail sloop (large fore-and-aft mainsail with a smaller, higher square topsail). Here the fore-and-aft sail has been shrunken and elevated to become a spanker sail directly behind the square topsail. Besides negating crew access to the fore-and-aft sail’s booms without going aloft (an otherwise key advantage crew-wise for this type of sail versus square sails), the sail arrangement now looks off proportionally, being both too high and small for the new ship.

I agree with IRAGM about this probably being the most accurate modernization of 6274 in the contest. I like how you've expanded the stern deck to be longer (the original was too short and wide (kind of like the ship overall)), thus making your enclosure of the cabin underneath look better than some other MOCs/MODs of 6274 that I've seen. I love that you've added a ship's bell. I also agree that the main issues are issues with the original set (these may not bother some but for those who (somewhat) know sailing ships, they stand out like a sore thumb - there are very real practical reasons why you never find them on real ships!).

Extravagant design! I think a mosaic for the interior cabin is fine; the officer cabin of navy ships often had a tiled floor so having a mosaic design would have just been an upgrade. However, I do think the mosaic on the exposed poop deck should be replaced, as I'd imagine that would be slippery and easily weathered by the elements. What is the point of those flags at the very bottom of the stern? If those are gunports for stern chasers, I'd imagine they would be swamped by anything less than perfectly still seas. I agree with the point about the jibs; you may also want to move the square sail on the mizzenmast above the spanker sail instead of directly in front of it (though this is not a huge issue).

@ Rogue Redcoat: The flags are pointing the correct direction, with the wind (sails catch the wind and propel the boat in the direction the wind is blowing). Unlike non-wind powered vessels, square-rigged sailing ships cannot move faster than the wind and thus flags would also be blown by the wind in the same direction as movement (i.e., forwards).

I always like seeing expansions of 6274 that don't just look like a recolored 6285 (by the way, I appreciate that you've managed to keep the original color-scheme without going overboard with blue like I've seen with some other expansions of 6274). I also like how you have expanded the stern section considerably while correcting many of the issues I have with 6274! A few small criticisms: 1) Where did the flying jib go? I think the bowsprit looks funny without the triangular sail present. 2) The deck area near the bow could use more railings (there are large gaps here) 3) The guns on the upper deck seem a bit oversized (especially the 2 stern chasers); perhaps brick-built cannons would look more to scale? 4) The ‘mast’ at the stern could be made smaller; here it is essentially an oversized flag-pole that would only slow the ship by increasing weight and drag (I also have this issue with mizzenmast of the original 6274 set – masts on sailing ships are worse than useless unless they have sails!) 5) The mainmast needs a spanker sail like in 21322 (this is an issue I have with many LEGO brigs including 6285, 6243, and 70413). I realize that a large blue-white striped spanker sail is not officially available, but brigs always look incomplete to me without them.