Endgame

I feel like ranged weapons were better simply because the back row was straight up better. QMs would balance their levels/attacks around everyone chilling in the back row, so the front row became almost negated. The 50% damage reduction was simply too good. Some random thoughts: -Less of a damage reduction. This is kind of a nightmare, because anything other than 1/2 becomes a pain to calculate. -Increase the chance of ranged weapons missing. This makes a little more sense in Heroica than in Space-Heroica, when lasers come out at the speed of light, but it would bring some balance. I think the row system needs a major overhaul in general, because there is rarely penalty for battles taking a long time... but the penalty of getting hit in the front row was equal to death.

I think it's just the hats I object to (although hoods are always in fashion.) The rest looks great.

I certainly agree that it adds complexity. I would second Flipz' suggestion for a one time round-zero, where you build your die and then you're off to the races for the rest of the fight, but even then I could see things getting complicated (Round Ones of battle would always be something of a doozy because you have new rolls to adjust to, and if you got a party that loves switching up their combat die...) Some potential additional workarounds/thoughts: -Paring down effects/equipment/armor/weapon/what have you to be less maddening. I second Flipz idea that weapons/artifacts should apply stat bonuses at best and nothing else; I will personally apologize for unleashing Combrys, the Overkill gloves, all of the Dragon Armor, and all the weirdly-similarly-named-Oculoid items. I think we all agree that we need to do this regardless - the custom die system would surplant the complexity and inventory digging of the old equipment system, while hopefully being less utterly confusing/not-uniform. -Proper naming of the techniques would go a looong way to making it easier for QMs to know what does what. I still have to check how certain advanced/expert classes handle each of their rolls (some shields and criticals become lunacy, especially when you throw in Double Strike or weapon effects), but if we agree on a nomenclature for techniques (say Devastating means that damage is equal to lvl + WPx3, Critical is lvl + WPx2, Slice inflicts Bleeding, and Strike is milquetoast, then I already know how to calculate the Strike, Slice, Critical Strike, Critical Slice, Devastating Strike, and Devastating Slice techniques out of the box.) -Technique balance is my long term concern. They would all have to be pre-approved before they are handed out in quests, and a universal list of a not-insane number would be kept. Standardization is the system's greatest benefit, in my mind. The good news is, with each technique having a skill cost, you could balance certain ones by making them more or less expensive. Long term it'd have to require heavy monitoring, though. In summary: first rounds for QMs would be slightly harder (and I say slightly because how many QMs actually made it through a round of battle without glancing at the heroes' stat sheets once? Basically only for level 1 characters is my experience, but maybe I'm wrong?), build variety becomes cooler from battle to battle, something fills the complexity/depth gulf caused by simplifying items/equips/weapons... could potentially be a ticking time bomb if someone figures out game breaking combos. I'll keep tinkering and maybe run a test battle or two to see how it works. I will give Heavy Agrees on the parts about status effects and trimming down artefacts/weapons, and Agrees on changing levelling and QM incentives. Job Traits becoming permanent seems to me like it could result in one character becoming an all powerful jack of all trades, whereas I am assuming we want to promote more horizontal progression... although becoming a jack of all trades might be the apex of horizontal progression, I feel like you should still need to pick something and stick with it, just so you can't do everything under the sun at once. I think collectively we've been pretty good collectively at Loremastering and respecting eachother, but a Plot Committee and someone/someone(s) who make mechanical rulings would be a good idea. EDIT: And now I see that CMP has posted a lot of what I will assume to be Good Stuff, so I will dive into that after these Thanksgiving leftovers are taken care of.

The whole post was good, I clipped and underlined stuff I heavily agree with. I *like* the idea of heaving class skills untethered from attacks - because, I mean, well, healers have been getting to do that the whole game. Imagine how annoying it'd be when you're trying to hit somebody and heal someone with only 1 hp lost, or vice versa? So in addition to each class getting a class specific action (like heal, protect, etc.), my idea was that they get to build their own attack die, based on techniques/attacks the have been taught/acquired from beating enemies/levelled up into/etc. A universal technique list could be kept somewhere and get added to as new ones crop up for maximum QM ease. Essentially, my idea for the system looked like this (spoilered because it is lengthy):

1. What should be the overall theme/genre? I'd actually be down for something more Dark Fantasy (but that may be my current Dark Souls binge talking.) Otherwise, I think something science fiction themed (A Star Wars/Mass Effect esque setting?) could work. 2. How closely should the theme/genre be followed? I think that it should be followed pretty closely to start off. It's important to establish what kind of world we are playing in before we get too crazy, but as the mythos starts to take form branching out becomes more and more possible. 3. What aspects of the game should be covered by mechanics? i.e. skills, combat, social interactions, character creation, etc. Social interaction worked fine in Heroica, I feel, for basic diplomacy/intimidation skills. Things like Conversion got a little funky, but otherwise it was all very functional. I would be hesitant to tie mechanics to character creation, beyond the way it was done in Heroica (starting class, weapon, etc.) One of the fun things about making your character in Heroica was the amount of freedom you had in choosing who/what you were; if we start quantifying that more, I feel like we would lost more than we gain. Combat and skills should definitely be covered by game mechanics. If there is two issues I feel combat should resolve, it's that: 1. Inventories got waaayyy too bloated. This was way more of an issue for me than battle calculations: sifting through massive inventories and taking care of trades, etc. Maybe some sort of limit to what you can take when you're starting on a quest...? 2. Classes got too powerful. Some of the later Expert Classes were insanely difficult to balance and calculate for, and not to mention some Master Classes were borderline unkillable. I think more side-grades instead of straight upgrades should be in order. 4. How in depth should the mechanics of the game go? I feel like Heroica set a pretty good base line for this. 5. Will the design of the general theme/genre and mechanics be group work-shopped or left to selected individuals. I.e. how democratic should the development process be? 6. Should the running of the game be democratic or managed by select individuals? Gonna answer these simultaneosuly, and pose a question as a response to it: do we want another Main Story? And if yes, it should be individually managed (with the plot's basis work shopped among some committee). Will offer more detailed thoughts down the line, I have many an Idea floating around.

I would support another fantasy-themed LEGO RPG happening, but I feel like we'd need a fresh universe and heavily tweaked mechanics. Not to say we couldn't transplant some old locales, of course. Time is convoluted in Lordran Drangleic Lothric Eubric.

End of an era, isn't it? I've typed and re-typed the starting sentence of this paragraph about three times now, so I think that I will just go full stream of consciousness at this point, coherence and logic be damned. There's a lot of things I wish I did for this game that I didn't. I wish I participated more as a player, but I was busy QMing. I wish I did better as a QM, because really, out of a catalog of 15 quests, I can only go back and read maybe five of them and say they were good. And I wish I was around for the end more, just to see it off, because this game was a thrice-a-day ritual for me for more than five years. WBD, 159 was a grand undertaking from every possible perspective. And you handled it masterfully. I feel like the deeper analysis is better left to those on it, but as a (mostly) silent watcher... well done, truly. And another big thank you to those I quested with, those I quested under, and those who quested under me. I hope I left you guys some memories. You left a lot for me. And to Sandy, who started the game: I don't think you've been tanked enough. There's 159 quests on this message board that wouldn't exist without you, and that'd be a damn shame. Y'all better PM me if you make a Heroica 2 or something. I want in.

I still maintain they were not that hard! I only had a full party wipe *once*, and that was on my second quest, when I thought Advanced Classes were the be-all-end-all and I had to throw the absolute toughest monsters at people. ...Oops.

In regards to certain allegations and statements I got pinged about, boss fights have always been and will always be my one true love, and anyone who thinks otherwise can go glance at Q48 for a quest with 4 bosses and 3 minibosses. On thate note, WBD, if you need help with the final fight...

I didn't dare suggest this at the time, but part of me has always wondered if some of the higher level classes should come with some more drawbacks, or at least be nerfed a bit. My memory of mechanics and classes are too fuzzy for me to name too many examples (hey, I haven't hosted a quest in a while, cut me some slack :tongue: ) but one of my fears as a QM is that by the time everyone had Master classes, the party would basically be untouchable. If memory serves, the Prophet's Shield is a full party revive, full party max heal, and a heavy amount of damage to the enemy party? Paragon's wasn't much better in that regard. I'd like to see a system where characters' classes moreso grow sideways, in the sense they gain new abilities that can be swapped out (and not necessarily stronger than any other classes' ability!) to keep gameplay fresh, instead of just growing out of control.

Nuh-uh, you weren't there for 48! ...Which is still the longest quest to date, no?

The story arc was kind of tenuous at best. All three were designed to stand (mostly) alone... which greatly affected who the final boss of 147 was going to be! And technically Kinto was on every single one of them, if that counts. :tongue:

Those work well against literally any fight. And I played nice with bosses at the end of QM career! Lethauros and Vorpalis didn't change phase at all, and Immortalis' second-half salvo was barely any change.

No, but take too long and you'll have to deal with Undead Lethauros. :look:

I would love to have a Heroica post-mortem. I think that could be really valuable. And also... You can't end a story about Heroes without slaying a couple of dragons, huh?

Was not expecting Arthur to show back up! 159 is awesome.

Just be glad Vorpalis is too dead to make a cameo, I guess. Building him with actual bricks would be... borderline impossible, I think.

I mean, I was kinda hoping Sorrow could return as a Force Ghost, not a skeleton decoy, but sure, why not? Also, WBD, I apologize that you had to try to replicate one of my digital-impossible-cheat-builds in real life.

Well, looks like Sorrow won't be there for the last dance. I'll be watching 159 intently! Looks awesome, WBD.

"But, your husband, and child, they'll be... expecting..." Expecting her back home. Expecting? What was I expecting from Olegaia now? Just two days ago I was told I would be counting my time left in hours, not days. But here I was. I was lucky to hang on for this long. But it wouldn't be much longer, now, would it. My eyelids shut and I exhale. "...thank you." An hour, two hours, three hours pass. I had no words left to say. It was simply breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out... The fourth hour. My hand clenches into a fist, slowly, as if searching for some invisible weapon, before peacefully unfurling palm down on the sheet. Minutes. Counting in minutes now. Breathe in... breathe out. In... Out. Seconds left. Ticking away. Until all was still.

I rest my head upon my pillow. Although still choked up, I sounded oddly serene. "Thank you two very... very... much for taking the time to visit. I'm sorry - ah, I've been saying that too much, but I truly am - but... but I am feeling... rather tired." "Thank you once again," I speak in hushed tones. "We will meet again, if Helvetia wills it."

"...I've arranged to rest in a cemetery on Crescent Hill. If you, if you... ever want to visit. if you ever want to take her to..." I can't bring myself to finish that sentence. You can hear words try to come out of my throat, but it wouldn't cooperate. A shaky hand reaches for the glass of water, fingers trembling as I take a laborious sip, some water splashing out, droplets of water slowly trickling down on the floor. They mirrored something else on my face. Something that you couldn't see too well, but something that had been building up for a long time. "...Th-thank you. I do not know... what else to say. I hope those two words are enough."

There's a long pause. The silence gets heavier and heavier, and then... "That's, that's wonderful. You'll tell her... about me. W-won't you?" My eyes remain unfocused, but there is recognition in my voice. "Ah, Dyric. Is the Mockthril Longbow I gave you still treating you well?"

"I... Neither did I. I was always resting up, trying to get well enough to quest once more, but..." I break down coughing. A few deep breaths, I regain a smidge of composure, but my voice is even quieter, even raspier. I wasn't even looking at you anymore, it was like I was looking past you. "I could never go back to it. There's a lot of things I wasn't able to do. Write more memoirs. Maybe help solve the issues in Eubric. Study magic. I, I, wanted to be a grandfather for Rachelle too, but I... Well Maxwell is better suited for that." The front door to 36 Repose way was open a crack. A voice was audible from inside.

"I did miss a lot. I disappeared. I was, I was awful."