Kage Goomba

Yet an another one of these - and This looks really cool too. :) Very nice texturing. (May want to search these boards - pretty sure someone did one of these some time ago - could get some ideas from it if you havn't already)

I'll DM you the file containing the section - if anything Stud.IO will let you have an unfettered look at it. Pictures as well if your not comfortable. Stud.IO is a great tool for digital validation and testing - its not perfect - but for complex projects - its a boon for those who don't have a room full of lego bricks (like me hehe) Course right now my table is flooded with TIE defender parts and I still have other models to build :P ugh.

That is interesting - if I gave you a snip of my model could you build it out in Stud.IO for me? For some reason I'm just not grasping it fully - but If im reading this right - your suggesting me platting it out. The other concern is weight/load on the belly side as well.

@Monkeyulize I'll let him know and see if I can work something out before he gets to it. Good points. I was thinking along the same lines. Honestly - better overengienered than not at all. ;)

As "pretty" as the original look was - this version feels more true to me. Honestly. My first introduction to the TIE Defender was TIE Fighter Game - not the series - and honestly the Rebels series was more like that version anyway - even with some slight changes. Which makes it an engineering challenge in terms of weight/stability. Bottom line - will it hold? That's what I'm looking for :D

@Monkeyulize is going ballistic with his build - looking good. Any opinions? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts @Kdapt-Preacher Assembly may be a tricky prospect but it seems to look pretty solid to me. Many times stronger than the original attempt. Thoughts anyone?

You'll have to forgive me - could you give me an example of what you mean? Not following for some reason - likely due to exhaustion lol. But I'm interested in what you mean.

@Monkeyulize took a 3rd crack at the body in terms of designs and came up with some interesting ideas. Any comments on weight/stability? Think it has a good chance? or is the 2nd iteration better? Thanks in advance. The idea is to be "truer" to the TIE Defender in shape/design lore wise. My concern of course is - smaller struts == less stability?

Bout damn time you resurfaced. Brilliant work as always. :) "This is the way"

Mocopolis responded to me finally - posted their reply in the first post. Nothing new or anything surprising other than its a bit obvious they don't vet their designs. Still tinkering with the body - nothing new to report there.

So fiddling with @Monkeyulize body - came up with an iteration on his design to reinforce the overall "pylon/strut" that will hold the panel. Any comments? The question is - will it hold the TIE Panels weight and not snap under the strain? The TIE Panels fastening is by modified plate brackets - I may need to reivisit how that is done - but I was more concerned with the weight on the main spine. Monkey already pointed out it won't add much and suggested adding an another plate on the front of the Hex part which will make it look slightly thicker but would help. Don't get distracted by the decorative bricks - may trim/adjust that anyway.

That much is very clear for sure lol - so you win an another point there XD

So to help out here - I've hidden the bricks that have literally nothing to do with structure in terms of the pylon and the TIE Panel. the Panel is lifted up for view. Those 2 blue 3L linkers are all that's holding the Panel to the main pylon - the axles there just there for...structure? But nothing to do with the TIE Panel. My idea was to shove axles with caps through the panel into the body - well that was @Kdapt-Preacher 's idea - but I was going to flip each of those wheels 90 degrees to provide a grip point. But its up in the air as to what next solution I'll use here.

This is brilliant - only issue is maintaining the spine in terms of design - but it has me thinking - the suggested body that Monkey came up with may allow this. As it is now - its not perfect - but it works - but it would be nice to stop it from sagging. works for me. As to your question: The 12M / 3M nomanclature isn't helping me here as I'm used to the stud measurement (IE: 8L or 12L) so you'll want to keep to that if you could. :) If your talking about the axles in the pylons - yeah you pretty much nailed it - however with Monkey's suggested body - I may abandon my idea and go for his or at least find a way to hybridize it as its a much better distribution of weight/stability (if I'm using the right words) As to your lack of understanding - that's the problem that kicked my ###. It looks good - It smells good - but it's a disaster. The main issue is so simple that it even evaded me here. The main body is sturdy in-itself - but those TIE Panels are only held by those 2 3L Linkers - that's it - its irrelevant if the 12L? Axel's are there or not - all of that stress is on those 2 little linkers - and that's why it collapsed - dragging the bricks and everything else with it as the back bricks are only sitting on that plate (look at the picture I took where I was holding the body) - it bugged me that the bricks are not attached to the main pylon for stability - I took it as flourish/decoration overall. The new body Monkey suggested fixes that - but there's now a pair of stress points that concern me in terms of weight. Again to make it clear - the problem isn't the pylon - its the 3L Linkers - its just not designed to hold that weight. The function is valid (Even if Kdapt screams at the use of such a method hehe) - but it can't hold that weight. Now if the 12L Axels where involved in that hold - it may work - that was my next attempt - but a better solution may be what Monkey suggested which I need to stare at for a bit longer and see if there's a way to reinforce the body. Not sure if this is making sense - if it isn't I'll see if I can come up with some pics to explain. Pretty much - stupid me for not testing the design out - now I'm, in the hole and attempting to salvage it. Moc hasn't replied yet - I'll give them a day before I kick the boat - and as to why? They need to say something to prove to me they care enough to re-vet their instructions - otherwise its obvious to me - no one should be doing business with them unless they want to risk cleaning up their mess(s) I may have seen that TIE Defender - but alas - I'm addicted to UCS Scale. ^_^;;; Yep - masochist here....yep. But yeah - lesson learned - which is why I'm using this as a object lesson to other MOC'ers - vet your designs - ask for help - make sure your instructions are valid. It's the right thing to do. On the bright side - I'm learning a great deal here - so its not a loss - just feels like I'm going to College again for 2 Grand+ tuition fees. (hahaha?) Learned more in the last 3 months than I did in designing my Otana - that's for sure.

Wow..great posts....from everyone - need to dig into these. The Phantom TIE builder @Monkeyulize came up with a total body rebuild that is totally blowing my mind - but still have some challenges to work out. As I'm talking to him on Discord - I point out a potential weak spot - but its miles better than what I had to deal with before. I'll revisit this thread when I catch up - got things to do. ^_^ See this is why you ask for help - you get great ideas. :D PS: Looks like Mocopolis took the build down - seems "Fraud" triggered them.

Your first post for starters - and the 2nd post with the long winded statement that was utterly insane until you said "send pics" - you could have saved a lot of trouble and pain in just saying "Pictures in real life please?" That's all I'm saying. Next time ill just put real life pics in the future. Also your going to get a lot of flack from MOC'ers about your stance on things - so be prepared for that. No one should be a MOC'er if they don't test build their MOC's - there's no point in doing it if your not going to build it. Unless we're talking the SSD Thats 75 some odd feet long and have 700k pieces (may be exaggerating here) that would be one of the exceptions I can think off hand. Although I think Kdapt is threatening to do that one...well a variation of it. :) Thankfully pretty much all of the MOC's I've seen here (minus the one I just pointed too or any of the obscenely large/over the top legendary builds) are real life builds or been tested/vetted - I think your kind of outgunned here.

I get the suspicion - but in all fairness - ask for the pics and files upfront next time - cause the approach you took is not friendly at all. I did say I'd provide the files/proof. Providing the instructions technically is a no-no but it is a FRAUDULENT build so - frankly I don't give a damn anymore. But I did this "project" for 3 reasons mainly: 1 - to get an idea of what it takes to part out a big model - my Otana is 7000+/- pieces - so I figured I might as well get a small taste of this so I don't make mistakes when I release it. 2 - to get an idea of techniques beyond Lego's norm. 3 - TIE Defender is sexy as hell so bonus for me. As to finishing this monster nightmare? We'll see in about a week or two - as I said - thanks to Kdapt - I have an idea - but it will take a total rebuild on the body. Sigh.

If you had read my post - I'd said I furnish files/instructions on request. I really wish people like you would bother to respect what is written and not jump to conclusions so easily. But since your going to play that game. Here's a snapshot of the instruction issues - its not a complete list as others have found things I didn't. TIE Defender Trouble List Step: 6 - Shaft Color (pricing) 17 - Illeagal - No attachment part - replace with 1 1x2 plate - 1x1 Brick and 1x1 plate? (Need to confirm fix) 33 - replace 2x 1x4 plates with 2x4 plate (Stability) 38 - Linker may be "illeagal" consider replacements (for now accepting) 48-51 - Remove "attachment point" entirely - instead use 2x2 Brick with Axle hole and 2 2x2 Round plates with 1 2x2 tile with hole for attachemnt section - may need bricks to fill holes 52 - Considedr removing "custom" 2x2 curved brick for costs and replacing with something else. 58 - Replace Hatch with correct one (inverted design/decal) 61 - Replace 2x 1x2 plates with 1x 2x2 plate 64 - Replace 1x2 Tile modified plate with 1x2 plate and extra 1x1 hook for stability of cockpit window. / Also need to extend length by 1 stud to make room for "sensor pods" as its illeagal in its current iteration (IE: 1x2 plate and sloped wedge plate to cap off - will clarify with instructions) 67-70 - Illeagal due to Step 17 - these are "floating" unless 17 is observed with its correction. 75 - Replace 2x 1x2 plates on either side of cockpit window with 2x 1x2 grooved tiles for look/smoothness 79 - 8 stud long shaft to be replaced with 12 stud long shaft due to severe stability/illeagal build - cockpit ball wheight would collapse/fall off. May need to adjust - pending test results. - parts at end of 8 stud long shaft "removed" - need extra axel "bushings" (3-4?) 100 - Add 3x 1x2 Bricks 6x 1x2 plates 3x 1x2 tiles to cover gap between body/cockpit ball to improve look at the attachment point. 107/117 - replace 1x2 tile with 1 stud with 1x2 tile with linker top to improve connectivity - this applies to its oposing side (Step 117) 134 - Remove 1x2 L Brick and replace with 1x2 Tile and 1x2 Wedge Brick to improve look/style 180-181 - possible "floating" plate/brick stability problem - replace 6x 2x2 Wedge Plate with 6x 3x3 Wedge Plate to improve stability/connectivity 217 - Illeagal Build - Missing part - need 3x 1x2 plate to hold 1x2 bracket as its sitting on nothing. 273, 275, 282 - Illeagal Builds - 282 uses an impossible connection point that risks damage to part which impacts all other steps attached to this area - a hinge plate is needed to restore but it be4comes impossible to use a hinge plate at the tip of the wing - multiple parts will be needed to repair. Details will be included in instructions. Also need additional parts to attach frame - one for each panel (6) ### - No Stand - model isn't safe to sit on its wings in my honest opinion - rendering the entire model at risk. - Stand built - needs testing. https://www.lekkuguild.com/lego/TIE_Defender_instruction.pdf https://www.lekkuguild.com/lego/TIE_Defender_partlist.pdf Add to that the Panels will not hold weight wise by default - the whole thing just flat falls apart. Rear "grey" struts on panels are illegally attached - had to come up with a way to fix that - took 6 iterations to fix that. Even then - its not perfect. Oh and need I say the instructions are bad? Yes - I did say that. Hard to take a picture of a failure when all I have two hands. Now I do have some pictures highlighting the areas that needed correction. Keep in mind these are corrections already made or attempted but I'm sure if you look at the instructions and compare notes - smart guy like you should be able to figure it out. This was my first iteration in fixing the cockpit ball problem the instructions botched horribly - ended up going with a longer shaft and some other adjustments on the cockpit ball side. Rear end ended up being "bigger" due to shaft being increased in size on the spine. Also note the pylon - only 2 3L Linkers get pushed into that with the entire Panel being attached to that. Now for some real life pictures since your going to be rather argumentative there. first lets talk about the cockpit - the small black bricks/red axles are from the "original" instructions - note the size - the cockpit and likely weight - and the main-body - ignoring for moment that its got a longer axle than the original design - do you honestly believe it would hold up to the weight? I can tell you right now - nope - it would fall right off - bang - pieces everywhere. Kept the original parts as a reminder of the foolishness of assumptions. This is a close up on the day I was installing those tiled/panels on the sides - the instructions have you do this after the main struts/pylons are bricked out/built - damn near bout threw the thing through my window. Also note how its designed - all that weight on the TIE Panels - 3 of them - are being held by that. I had a sneaking/nagging itch in my brain that this may not work - too much faith in the original design - should have known better - live and learn. And if that wasn't enough Note the size of the Panel - the point of attachment is those blue linkers sticking out that "popped" out of the panel with the wheel base it used. Note the angel of that panel if attached - sure top one would be fine - but the ones on below? Nope. Also note the black plate bricks on the tips - yeah - that's cause of the illegal part use to make the outer frame work - not very secure - didn't have much choice. Also the bricks beyond the main "pylon" strut - snap off/falloff due to weight stress by the panel - the front pylons break loose off the outer spine and attempt to spin out of alignment - I added a hinge plate to stop that - it only stopped it 75% of the way - not enough. The Laser Cannons are also bogus in the original design - nothing to attach - just floating there - apparently the guy never used the part before at all in real life. I had to shove an....9L? Axel through it to make it work - spins freely sadly - open to suggestions. So yes - I DID spend money on this - I DID Build this bloody thing which occupied my table for 3 months and now I have parts taking up space all over. So how bout you help me out here and not bother debating this please? Oh and the stand - that's all me - need to reinforce the back side - but it was necessary as the cockpit sags a little on the main body WITH my fixes - and I didn't like it stressing it too far.- so gave the stand a chin.

Whole heartedly agree - my only caveat here is when you spend an inordinate time on the design and just as much if not twice-thrice on instructions. It's not unfair or irrational to charge for instructions. That said - you don't charge for anything unless your willing to back the product.If it fails - I expect the seller/creator to work with "customer" - refund on the instructions - or "make it right" within reason. Yes - its on the customer to get the parts and do the work - but when the instructions AND part list are bad (Kdapt actaully looked into my "disaster" as a matter of fact and had quite a few things to say about it) - there's no excuse there. This isn't a "I made a mistake" type situation. The mistake I made in truth is I took a leap of faith and didn't vet the design myself - even stud.io missed a few things - it's not programmed to compute things like "weight" in terms of the cockpit ball falling off or the panels - at least in an easy to understand human format with all the bugs - can't fault the program for what its programmed to do at this time really. Which is why its important to me to share this with other moc'ers who are selling instructions/goods - vet your product - it could cost you dearly if you don't.And if you make a mistake - do the right thing - cause that's all it takes to help out really. Or take a page out oi Kdapt's book - don't involve money - the risk may not be worth it. And in truth - I may not want that risk either - food for thought to be sure.

Some of these pieces are very...hard to get over here in the states. Its kind of variable in terms of pricing out pieces here and there. Not including sales tax/shipping etc. Also - if the instructions where bad - the entire kit is bogus too by definition. Now if Mocopolis comes back with a "instructions are good - where did you get yours" - will that would be a mind trip and a half now wouldn't it? Wild West or not - the anger is simply this - do not charge for instructions that are wholly bogus - its just...wrong. (Not to mention Fraudulent which is a crime in this country) If anything I learned of a long list of things that I need to do for my Otana before I go there - and I hope this is a good lesson for up and coming MOC'ers - pelase vet your works. I hope I don't cause the same pain to anyone else - cause it's a sucky feeling to be sure. My end goal is to not make money - but to make it work and to post the fix for others.

Reached out to mocopolis - asked them to take the build down - If they play nice - ill edit my original post and retroactively not include them :P In any case I'd expect store fronts to at least put weight behind their products - investing thousands into a build only to find out its bad - not kind. Here's hoping I can salvage my build with the suggestions given. I'll likely redo the Cockpit to firm up areas on it.

Thanks to one clever MOC'er - got an idea to try out - or at least he gave me an idea thanks to clever "Backwards" thinking. I'll have to redesign the main body - ironically this will make it more "TIE Defender" accurate than this one as nice as it looks. (The pylons are not as "Fat" on this one in terms of overall Lore) My inspiration ^ Other guy came up with this possible idea but it had some holes in it - when I realzied who said I had to line up the wheels - why not flip them 90 Degrees to provide axle holes for all 4 holes. Allowing his idea to kick in. Just need to redo the main body. Other ideas are welcome.

Looks good for a cute little TIE Interceptor :)

NOTE: I changed things on my Webserver so images may be broken - if anyone wants to see things let me know and ill dig them up - these forum boards are not entirely friendly on edits. - Sorry! (Pictures are still there - just have to go the the trouble of fixing them.) - And it appears these stupid boards won't render the images upfront - but they load when you click - sigh. UPDATE - The Hinge fixes worked - its stable as it can get - enough that you'd be at the level of the UCS Star Destroyer or X-Wing or any other model in terms of how much a model can take before it starts having issues. Currently working on redoing instructions to get it up to current design specs. PIcs below are still accurate - only the hinges are twice the strength and the stand does a better job keeping it stable. Instructions are updated up to the stand - got an another 200 pages to blitz through before I can post the current iteration. Should be done tomorrow. Future plans are improvement on the panel wings to not looks so fragile - cockpit strengthening. Going to need help with Q/A on instructions and anyone whose released a design - PM me and give me some pointers - total newb here - want to do it right. Reminder - not charging for instructions - these will be free. I will however accept donations (to put towards Otana - the "other" monster project) Would really like to see someone build this thing to really get a sense of cost/design. Also just might send this up to Lego Group. Any comments about that? Much thanks. PS: Bug thanks to the Technic gents who helped me puzzle out a stronger hinge design - which turned out to be a "Well duh" problem and not a disaster. ==== UPDATE 2: Instructions/Parts List are done. https://www.kagegoomba.com/lego_moc.php (2 Files - 54-55MB - 1 PDF/1 CSV) *Again - please respect the work done here - don't go running off with it/etc - for everyone to enjoy* I'll be looking into making the manual look pretty with a cover/end cover/credits/graphics. Decal has been created for this design - https://www.ultimatecollectorstickers.co.uk/product-page/lego-star-wars-ucs-moc-sticker-for-tie-defender-by-kage-goomba TIE Pilot not included in design - just a random thing I snagged for display purposes. ---- <TIE Pilot isn't included in the design - thought it would be cute> As I said before - still updating instructions and parts list. So stay tuned. UPDATE: I Added LED's - still need to clean it up but here it be. https://www.kagegoomba.com/lego/tie_defender/TIE_Defender_prototype_led.mp4 ============== This is my second MOC (albeit first one to be "finished" to the point of building) There's history behind this design that ill save for later - I'll just focus on the meat and potatoes. Here's the pictures from Stud.io - ill look into a rendering version in a while. Cleaned up the Cockpit <-> Main Core area - not sure if that area is stable but it certainly looks good (Stability in the little bits that decorate it) And the Stand itself 3421 Parts as of this posting (With stand) 20” x 19” x 19” (51cm x 47cm x 46cm) (Think - Between an A-Wing/TIE Fighter UCS in size terms - also not including stand so it may be a pinch taller/longer) This MIGHT support mini figurine in the pilot's seat. Bit of Lore (My Take on it) The TIE/d or "Defender" was Grand Admiral Thrawns answer to the X-Wing Space Superiority Fighters. Essentially the first of its kind to be Mass Produced with not only Shields - but a Hypderdrive with exception of modded TIE/i (Interceptors) and Darth's TIE Advanced (bit of a debate?) Point is - this was designed out the gate to be more inline if not exceed the trouble that X-Wings bring with them - and the ability to not require a Mothership to "Get around" thanks to the Hyperdrive. It also sports additional weaponry. Packing the lasers and ordinance that is typical of a TIE Interceptors (4 Laser Cannons - dual launchers) - this also has 2 ion cannons to make it a formidable ship (taking a page from the Y-Wings/B-Wings). - Also sporting a Tractor Beam to make it easier for its quarry to be killed. Carries more ordinance as well. Bit of a debate on speed but its essentially an Imperial X-Wing with bigger fangs. Bottom line - this TIE would have been the nail in the alliances coffin if it had been taken seriously as it could fill a Bomber role that the Y-Wings did - Tarkin however would block this project citing its too expensive and prefer to keep to his doctrine of throw many cheap TIE's at them and not bother cleaning up the mess. We all know how that turned out. Thrawn would have cleaned house if he had the backing of the Empire - but alas - he was essentially ignored and the TIE/d was only on field in limited numbers - and still feared overall. Again - just my take on it - I'm a big fan. (For some reason they say it has "Chin cannons" - it doesn't - don't care what they say - don't give a damn - I reference the TIE Fighter Game and similar games :P) That said - in my honest opinion - this was the King of TIE's - the Apex predator of the Empire for Space Superiority. Vader even grinned behind his mask when he got to fly one - a rare moment indeed (Thrawns books as source) But alas - too little too late - and the rest is history - for now? (We shall see) FAQ: This is a UCS Scale like model - not a play thing - not very tolerant with tampering. Yes there will be a Stand - and you can purchase a decal for it - ill dig up a link when I get there. Cost? - Instructions will be made available for free when they get done. This thing set me back about 2K USD (maybe less now that it's refined? Not sure - happy to take estimates for anyone brave enough to build this beast) - I'll accept donations to put towards my Otana project - but I don't intend on making profit off this for the main reason as to how this project came to be. It did take 1000 hours plus to build this thing out - and it will take a lot of effort to build instructions for it. Build - there's half a dozen "super rare" (not ultra?) parts Id estimate that may cause some trouble - namely the Cockpit hatch up top and the Window - then you have some decorated tiles inside for looks - and maybe some other parts. I'll audit to remove these variables as much as possible. Majority of the bricks are Black and Grey with some slight alterations. Feel free to substitute where you like if you see fit to do so. Stud.IO file will be made available on request when I get around to releasing this thing propper - so just ping me if you want a copy. This will also produce a parts list as well. Will it work? I'm 80-90% Confident it will. Doesn't this look like _____ model? - Yes - it does - the Mocopolis model is no longer available because that design was fraudulent - a total rip off. I actually bought instructions and this became a 3-4 month long nightmare. I suspect that designer will not be allowed to come back let alone claim credit for an "impossible" build. Hence why I'm releasing for free. More details below. Bottom line - this model WILL work - and is legitimately possible to build....I hope. (Going to find out for sure!) I intend to build this in real life very soon - need to these parts off my desk so I can move on to other projects lol - so I'll be sure to take pictures during construction or rather "reconstruction" - keep reading for answers to THAT question. As I said - I'm confident it will work this round. Update: Updated the Cannons - so now they don't freely spin looking awkward//broken/odd. Shrunk the length by an inch or so - more parts - but better looking. PS: This forums engine has very retarded caching - the images have been updated but it won't load the images - if you load the images in a new tab/window you'll see the updated pics. MVP's - Special Thanks to @Monkeyulize for helping to redesign the core body/pylons/TIE Panel main struts from ground up - creator of the gorgeous TIE Phantom -> Big thanks to "Darth Soban" - a Homeworld MOC'er enthusiast whose been giving encouragement and check-summing me the entire time. @ForgedInLego for helping me solve the Cockpit "sagging" problem or at least giving me the best shot. And lastly @Kdapt-Preacher for majority of my sanity checks and feedback overall since the beginning. Who has a fantastic collection of minatures -> This community is just full of genius that allowed the best chance for this "Salvage" project to come to fruition. Now as to the background as to why this is a thing - ill just tag this as spoilers - happy reading if you wish. Things left to do: 1: Rebuild Core body/Pylons 2: Rebuild Cockpit / Reinforce Cockpit sagging 3: Rebuild Tail Section 4: Rebuild Stand to accommodate new body and polish remaining areas. 5: Parts Audit/Colorization (ties into 4) (In Progress) 6: Test Build/Construct in Real Life (In Progress - Bricks ordered) 7: Did it work? Is it stable? Corrections? 8: Release final version of 2.0 Model and publish (In Progress) 9: Instructions (1.0 Version done) - Need to go back through and fix and adjust/polish! 10: 3.0 Version? - TIE Panels need rebuild due to ugliness - Feedback from other MOC'ers Big thanks to everyone who helped out! Here's hoping it will work this time!\ PS: This began as a "rant rave for bad moc'ers taking money into fixing this thing and making it work - so bear it all with a grain of salt. ==== Real life build progress: Day 2 Progress Looking great - and its holding structurely quite nicely - very rigid. May have to make some changes to the dressing that covers the spine - its too think with the current build so I removed some plates to make it nice - that and it wasn't fitting so nicely. Or I may keep it as is. There's some opprotunities to change some parts to make things better/easier however - and I've made those notes in the manual error list. The next step is the make it or break it point! Next is the cradle/stand being modded for the body - and the outer panels. Found a oops in assembly process and may need a change in parts for the "caps" (center hubs) on the panels - but not enough to cause concern for now. Off to sleep - here's hoping next post I make in terms of updates is good news that the new TIE Defender is legit (albeit not quite perfect) is build-able. ==== Reported "oopses" on the instructions: Fixed - its live Ready - needs to be "compiled in" Manual Corrections: (In progress)

Gorgeous diorama - nicely done.