Reza

They postponed making a decision. However, if you comment on that link and express your opinion, it would help. Yes I had heard about the material of the pin being different. However, if you have a broken type 3 motor, you want to know what broken motor you should buy (2nd or 3rd type) to replace the broken part. I bought one broken motor in last summer for this reason. (without knowing its type)

Are there several factories? 12v trains were sold only in Europe back in 80s. Were there produced in different locations?! I thought all was done in Denmark.

Nice job :-)

That was a great help; a very good and useful one. Merci beaucoup :-) Now you opened my eyes to a mysterious inconsistency in 1988. There are black motors of type 3 and 4 both made in 1988!

yes, I didn't carefully this. Are there two boxes or 7853 too? I didn't find this set in any catalog after 1985.

what about 7857 and 7861? I have two versions of their boxes.

For 7823, the box of 1989 seems to be identical to the one of 1986

Sorry, I should correct myself: "Having watched Ebay and gumtree in UK for the last 10 months, I have seen all 12v trains and sets except 7821 or 7750 but the set 7821 appears in the UK catalog of 1983-85." I confirm that the box 7750 does exist only in one variant D/F/NL. I double checked this with few Danish and Swedish train fans. I will write a thread about all language variations of boxes of 12v trains once I get a complete understanding of all variations.. But the number of variations is interesting (if I am correct): 7710: 3 (is there a US version too?) 7715: 3 (is there a US version too?) 7720: 4 (there is a US version) 7722: 4(there is a US version) 7725: 4 7727: 3 7730: 3 7735: 3 7740: 3 7745: 3 7750: 1 7755: 3 7760: 3 7810: 3 (haven't seen a photo of DK/S/SF version)

Having watched Ebay and gumtree in UK for the last 10 months, I have seen all 12v trains and sets except 7821 but I think this sets appears in the UK catalog.

The 12v trains were not sold on North of America. Some retailers sold it in other countries, like Hong Cong. I have not seen 7821 in any auction in UK but it appears in UK catalogs. I don't know more about this.

I asked the seller of 7730 in Netherland if bought it from Germany. He replied "yes, I bought it from West- Germany"! That is a real relief!

Hello again, The catalog administrator(s) is not convinced to split the types 2 and 3 train motor on catalog of bricklink. I wrote a message on bricklink forum to invite people giving their opinion for or against this. To simplify matters, I copy my thread on bricklink here. Please take time and comment your opinion on bricklink to help the admins making the best decision. Here is the link: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1076560 And here is my thread: It is known that the 12V train motors came in 4 types. Please see photos 1 and2. Their difference are on top "pin" and contact holes.On types 1 and 2, the pin is integrated to the case, but on types 3 and 4, thepin is separated from the case, so if you open the motor, you can take off thepin. This is advantageous if the pin of your motor is broken, then you can findanother motor that don't work, and uses its pin to repair your motor. seethe third photo in which I drew a yellow circle around the pin. On bricklink catalogs, the types 2 and 3 are not distinguished, both named bb12vb.In summary:bb12va (red or black): type 1bb12vb (red or black): types 2 AND 3bb12vc (available only in black): type 4bb12v: undetermined typeThe Catalog Administrator(s) is not convinced to split bb12vb in two items. Idon't find this consistent with other items split in various types. For example,part "4085 Plate, Modified 1 x 1 with Clip Vertical" is split in 4 items evenif it is very hard to distinguish them from each other.I think it is useful to distinguish parts 2 and 3, and split bb12vb. At thesame type, bb12v will be kept for undetermined type.Please note that type 2 motor was released since 1981 until mid-1982 so it couldnot have come with trains 7735 or 7745 from 1985. There are other examples similarto this. This would be important for collectors, who want to have the correcttype motor on their 12v train(s).Please comment here and give your opinion (for or against).

I have seen the types mixed in only one case (among about 200 cases): an auction on ebay. I think in that case the seller had tied to replace a missing one, but chose the wrong type.

One more thing: the sellers in UK, Germany, France and Italy know how to replace the cones, but not in netherland or Belgium?!! Two notes: I have seen only two trains 7730 on which the cones don't match. On one, one cone was black, on the other, only one cone had axle hole. I just checked markplaats in Netherland. Saw 6 trains 7730, and only one came with axle holes. This is the first one I see in Netherland with 3943b. But we have Ebay,... for about 15 years now, and since then, Lego can move more easily. This one might have come from Germany. In Germany and UK, I woud say about 34-50%. What bothers me is that whenever I see 3943a, I check the date of the red motor. The last one that is avaiable right now on ebay of UK comes 3943a but the motor is 25 82! This type of oddness occured many time. Keep in mind the the red motor came also with 7750 and 7727. The train 7750 was never sold in UK, and the train 7727 came with motor type 2 made in 49 82 or around that time. (and type 3 of course) So the chance that the owner had two red motors and he switched them is really low.

I meant the item 27c01 should be wrong, but train 7730 came with 27a. I had given also a chance that 7730 came with 27c01 in its early releases only. Let's accept that the chance that all the glasses fell and lost is zero. Out of about 20 trains I have seen or asked on web (40 windows), you are the first claiming that they came with glass! Consider also the fact that the train 7730 was released until the end of 1982. Based on bricklink, all sets that were released in 1982 or after having the cones (in any colour) came with 3943b. TLG replaced the cones in 1982 or even earlier. So they changed them also on 7730 in 1982 (or earlier!).

Oh, that's a great news! It has been few months that I have been looking for someone having this train since his childhood. Please take some time and reply to these questions: Could you tell me few things about your original 7730? - What is the number written underneath the red motor? - does it come with x461 or x461b? - does it have 3241c or not? - does it have the early sticker sheet or the later one? - if you have the box, does it have 2 green trays or 4 green trays? Considering the yellow cones, TLG changed the cones sometime in between 1981-early1982. I have been checking many and many sales, for the last 9 months, in France, UK, Italy, Germany. About 33% to 50% of the trains came with 3943b. Consider this: Is there a chance that the resellers broke all the three cones 3943a and replaced them with three 3943b? All of them? and none replaced even only one cone and left the two other with axle. They all changed all three cones together? This is really not likely. I bothered myself and messaged some sellers about their 7730. While they were honest and said that for example, there is no glass, they all said they took the train out of their loft. One was even surprised that that the cone had axle and that he had not noticed the difference with the images on the box and instructions! Check this one in new condition from France: http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Rare-boite-Lego-TRAIN-7730-briques-neuves-jamais-joue-/172901510590 And also these: https://picclick.co.uk/Vintage-Lego-12V-Red-Motor-Railway-Train-7730-112708789431.html#&gid=1&pid=1 http://www.ebay.it/itm/332357894698?clk_rvr_id=1440186351003&rmvSB=true Thanks for clarification! :-) Based on bricklink, it appeared in 7860. And if this is true, we should have two types of 70022 ! Have you checked that before? How many of them do you have? The change could not have happened in 1983 because 1982 was the last year 7730 was released. I think the change happened near the end of 1981 or early 1982. I don't have any good prove for this though. But those sets that were released for first time in 1982 came with 3943b.

Since there are blue battery wagons for the set 7720 from 1980 that come with 2-prong connectors, the switch to 3-prong connector happened after 1980. And by the way, what do you mean by "I never found them in any grey era lots"? We have clearly the 12v motor type 1 (with 2 connecting holes). The switch to 3-prong connector happened in early 1981.

I am Reza, the writer of the post concerning 3943a. The black brick wheels with red pin does not yet exist on bricklink. I have submitted a request to add the item, once approved, I should add the sets in which this variant wheels came with (7735, 7745, 7813, 7817, 7823, 7839). I will need evidence: photos of a sealed or MISB set, or photos of a collector having this since his childhood. So the photos of your 7745 will help. It is also very helpful if you know what motor came with that 7745 (the date written underneath the motor will determine when your 7745 was released; an important thing to know) Since you have a complete collection, please reply to this thread (and mention which motor comes with what set, if you know it): For 7730, -2* white windows 27c01: I know the white windows 27c01 do not have glass (there are two of them not three). The glass appears in the instructions, also there is a good photo of this train in the catalog of 1982 showing the glass (clearly the photo is taken in 1980, from the layout built for catalog of 1980) I guess this is the reason the glass is mentioned in the inventory of 7730 on bricklink. There is still a chance that the very first releases of 7730 came with glass, but so far I have not seen any glass on any 7730! - 3* yellow cones 3943a or 3943b: I have not seen the variant 3943b is any train for sale in Belgium or Netherland. As you mentioned, I think this is because TLG had many yellow conses in their stock, so used them to complete, let's say 2000 copies of 7730 and sent them via plane or truck, to Belgium and Netherland in 1982. Then they used the variant 3943b to make more 7730 and sent those to Germany, France, UK, Switzerland, Italy,... - Yesterday, yes yesterday, I realized two new problem on inventories. (after 10 months careful studying 12V and 4.5V trains!) A wire comes with 7730. I have photos of a MISB 7730 set. I have seen many other 7730 having a wire, which is odd. Then, does 7740 or 7725 came with an extra wire too? When I was thinking about the type of wire 7730 could have come with, (1-prong connectors? 2-prong connectors without middle pin? 2-prong connectors with middle pin?) then I thought about the blue battery wagon of 7720: if you haven't seen this thread, I have four of them: One out of 4 of my blue battery wagons come with the 3 connecting holes, the others with two connecting holes! Another item to be added on bricklink!

Thanks Freestorm Are these correct? Could you double check them please? black Type 3 49 8 black Type 3 36 8 If they are correct, could you take photos of them?

Yes it was. Some retailers sold it in other parts of the world too, like in Hong Cong! here it is my evidence Maybe they wanted to sell it in UK, France and Italy too at the time they designed the sticker sheet but then they changed their mind. And why didn't they sell it in these countries? I cannot find any reason. In the above comment, I scanned one page of a small trian catalog stating that 7750 was not avialable in UK, France and Italy. If you check bricklink, the following item thatonly appeared in 7750 is not sold by any store in these three countries, except few. (they buy their supply of Lego from different countries anyway) 3134 Black Brick, Modified 1 x 2 with Cable Holding Cutout

Thanks Thomas. Dd you know any of these motors comes with what set?

Merci beaucoup pour vérifier et me donner ces infos. C'est très gentil :-) Could you please double check this one: Black type 3 13 9 Doesn't look right. Maybe you meant type 4? If it is right, could you make a photo of top and bottom? (actually two photos would be needed) This one improved my data: Red type 3 02 3 Great! Thanks. Could you take two photos of this one? Do you know your red motor comes with what set?

Hello again, I am looking for instructions of 753, 754 and 755. Didn't find them online. Do you know from where I can download them or do you have them?

I didn't find where you are referring to here? "I like your apparent use of light posts to light up your switch controls!"

Holger, Thanks for checking these. But Red Type 3: 41 2 doesn't look correct.