Shadows

I've kicked around the same feeling before, it doesn't matter if I'm scum or town, I'm pretty much going to get slammed early. In this case, I knew that even switching my vote would look scummy at that point, so I sort of just resigned myself to it. If I had even suspected that the town would magically hit a scum every day, I might have fought a bit harder to stir up some confusion first. There's something about you and sweeps, Bob. Speaking of which ... Quarry was the best lynch we forced, based on him having a bottle of wine in the pictures in a game about prohibition. "He has booze, he must be scum!" That was an awesome game, everyone was reporting to me, I was using their info to convince others that I was town, they were going along with everything we said. And, of course, two words ... National Guard! Love ya Bob, thanks for always hosting Bob games, don't ever let that change.

Fun as always, Bob, thanks for having me.

I'm stumped at how that could work. Anything but that ...

Oddly enough, I'll be completely free tomorrow.

The problem is less the number of hours and more the time they fall in. I won't be around for much longer tonight and it's likely I won't get back in time to review whatever develops after this and then vote accordingly. I do think you could be faking the role, it's a very easy one for a scum to fake, as a matter of fact, I think I did exactly that in a past life. In this town. I'm going to leave my vote where it is and hope to manage to get back in time to see if I should change it. I still think it's the best of what we have right now, which is admittedly very little. I don't know how anything he has said makes him any more town looking, nor do I know how anything I've said makes me scummy, especially given that it is day 1, so I have no real idea how to respond to what doesn't even amount to an accusation. We're a fickle bunch today, but at least we're talking and that will pay off later, so carry on. As I said before, I hope to get back before the day ends, but can't guarantee it because of the timing.

A questionable logic, but at least from my memory of this town and its past, such a role usually exists. That would be easily learned with a little research. It's a convenient claim and given the lateness of the day, changing our votes now will guarantee no lynch for the day, which will hurt us, so I can't do it. If you are serious about unvoting this late in the day and reducing the odds of a lynch, you may want to redo yours, I'm not sure that format would be considered acceptable. You may also want to reconsider the vote for me since it was clearly unfounded and I'm not going to make an impossible to verify role claim at the last minute to save myself. I'm town, but not particularly valuable to it except for actually participating, which could be considered the most valuable trait of all.

Too many posts to respond individually, so I'll just state my whole position for the day. A vote was started. It had no real basis, it was designed to see who jumped on the bandwagon, who needlessly defended the accused and what the accused themselves would say. It was a conversation starter. It clearly did that. I thought that was fairly obvious and said I would sit back and see how it went before committing, thus encouraging that conversation. That said, at the end of the day, we need someone to get 10 votes, and if that means joining a bandwagon to achieve that goal, so be it, it's day 1, we're not going to make a brilliant decision, but making one is better than not and will hopefully help us on day 2. Many of you don't seem to understand these concepts and have used the course of the discussion to throw around a lot of random accusations based on how people have reacted. That's excellent, to be honest, because it means that in your confusion, you're helping give us things to look at as the days progress. This will be a day 1 to remember as a source of subtle clues, a lot better than most. Going back to the need for 10 votes, I have no problem with a day 1 bandwagon, but in this case I actually feel pretty decent jumping on. Al, an experienced member of this town, jumped on the original vote far too quickly. I even hinted at that when I posted what I did, making it clear that while I might support such a vote later, I would like to hear from the accused. That was the reasonable response and one I would have expected from Al but didn't get. Therefore ... Vote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

It's triggering more useful conversation than the morning donut vs meat talk, which allows people to actually do their own analysis and form their own suspicions. See how that works? This is the first time in recent memory that you've played. It's also true that my towniest of town game is pretty damn scummy looking, so there's that.

I'm giving the first person voted for an opportunity to defend themselves. If they fail to do so, I plan to vote for them. No one else had been accused at the time, so I don't see how you can call that positioning myself with any vote except potentially that one. Since your reasoning makes no sense, I can only wonder if you're trying to come up with a weak excuse to split the vote. It's a bit early for such silliness, but hey, people have revealed themselves for less logical reasons, so consider yourself on my radar.

That might be enough reason right there. For now, I'm going to wait and see what Gregory has to say, but general scumminess is about as good as any other day 1 reasoning, so I could go with that if they don't say anything that convinces me otherwise.

I have to say, so far Shelly is making the most sense, I will also be voting for one of you and not myself. Plus she must be really strong to wield a jerk like that. Obviously I'm not hitting on her or anything, I'm happily married and all, but you know. So yeah, look at those melons! What? Oh no, I mean we just got a fresh shipment of melons at the Green Grocer. Probably the last shipment we'll get until this whole mess is resolved. Be sure to stop in and if you show us your melons, we'll give you a discount on ours!

Brian Barnes, checking in. Be sure to stop by the Green Grocer that Wanda and I run when you need a healthy alternative to all this icky guns and violins violence. You know.

1) Have you played mafia before and/or have you graduated from a mafia school? A couple of times, all horrible. I keep vowing not to come back. 2) Will you be available for the duration of the game? If I die early. Unless I think I can win, then you'll never get rid of me. 3) Let's say in a totally hypothetical situation that's not going to be used when assigning you a character of course that you wanted to open a store. What would that store be and why? Toaster shop! Because toast! 4) Defiantly or definitely? Defiantly. As for your horrible banners and sub-par photography, it wouldn't be a Bob game without them, they're part of the charm of the whole thing.

You're right, I forgot about Dave, who also did a good job. He may have had the easiest one, but having to love himself was a work of genius.

Thanks for putting on an interesting game, def, it had a lot of potential that the players sadly missed. Way to barely not lose, town, which is a miracle only made possibly by the scum being even worse, as hard to believe as that is. That said, DD and Bob are my stars for the game. I made a point of not following the dead board, so I was honestly able to be surprised to see that DD was the SK and Bob was town. I would have lost those bets. I'd send almost every other one of you back to Mafia School.

1. Eventually is a far cry from immediately. There are still things we don't know yet, including the possibility that there is a second redirector or some other form of one, just like having two bulletproofs. All day you've pushed the cop/insane cop thing, but that's all you think could be duplicated because it's the only one that helps you. 2. Draggy only talked to me. He didn't even have time to get back to vote and to be a little blunt, he barely knew anyone in this game and certainly wasn't taking the time to actively participate. He didn't write anyone, I have no doubt of this. I think he was killed because he was a veteran player and that pretty much takes another veteran to recognise. 3. You're the only one that revealed anything thinking it would help you. So that's why you're revealing everything, you think the scum messed up in BB2 by trying to keep everything secret. You keep saying that. The redirector role needs to die. You grabbed it after the weird situation with Brickelodeon. You can't blame me for that. Well, you can try, but it would be stupid.

What was the benefit of me revealing anything? To try to help the town. Unlike you, I didn't run to the topic and give away our most important role, nor did I think you would run here to reveal the loss of a cop (Draggy). I tried to open a private discussion with you. I had hoped to make some sense of things before deciding how to reveal what I knew, but you ran straight here trying to save yourself from the scum result against you. To put the whole day in perspective, let's consider how I would have played this as scum. It's pretty simple, really, I would have kept my mouth shut, claimed the redirect was stolen or that I didn't know who to use it on and didn't, thrown around some real confusion and set up a few people to look guilty later. I also wouldn't want you lynched, I'd want that redirector role to survive, much like you seem to. Instead, I want us to take out the redirector, keeping the scum from utilizing what is honestly a game breaking role, while discovering the truth about the outstanding cop claim against you. In the long run, that would save town lives, not take more. I don't claim to be a "super townie", whatever the hell that even is, I'm just a townie who randomly picked an item with a dangerous potential on day 1 and a useless one on day 2. I found it incredibly coincidental that you'd end up with 2 major roles in a row, and especially interesting that you grabbed mine when someone went against the agreement and picked the one you were supposed to take. The fact that Brickelodeon then claimed cop and says you're scum and that's being ignored has left me a lot of questions that could be answered by lynching you, while at the same time removing a dangerous role from the game. At this point, anyone who argues against that registers as scum in my mind. If, while I'm sleeping, the vote reverses and I die, I will come up town and no questions will have been answered and the overall day will have been a loss for the town and they still won't know what to do with you tomorrow, or what to think of Brickelodeon's claim, or how to stop the redirector and vig. The town can't lynch everyone who grabs an item out of order, or control all of the possibilities for their uses, but taking out the one that can't possibly help them would be a major improvement to the situation. This just makes no sense to me at all. First, no one is confirmed town and even when they are, it can't be relied on. Bloodbrick 2 had a conversion. Don't forget that. I used it on someone who was confirmed and then we wiped the town clean. That's how it works. Whether I live out the day or not, do not forget this point and do not ever trust anyone to be town based on anything previous. If I was scum and had a conversion to work with in this, guess who it would be. You, the laughably towniest of town. Not one person has taken the "meh, might as well" approach, this is about testing the sanity of the cop who claims you're scum and removing a dangerous role from the game, a role you still want to claim isn't important. While I can't say that you're scum, you're definitely not promoting the best interests of the town. The vig reveal was debatable but this denial about the redirector proves it. If I thought that dying would help the town, I'd lead the vote against myself, but it won't. If I am lynched, what will my town alignment tell anyone? What questions will it answer? Hell, it won't even guarantee that you're scum, but what will happen is the town will have all the same questions as today and a role to deal with, one that could be removed now. To the vig: If you're town and they foolishly decide to end the day without dealing with the redirector, try to kill him. If you succeed, you'll have helped the town tremendously. Let something good come out of this day. Last note, my role, the one attached to the Lone Ranger's hat ... Cupid's Arrow. I pick two people, one to be madly in love with the other. You've seen it's effects today. Absolutely useless but amusing. I hope I get to use it tonight.

That doesn't make any sense, I'm the one that keeps saying that the redirector is dangerous while Tammo denies it, and he's the one that has it, so lynching me doesn't get rid of it. As for my mistake, I wouldn't have made one if I was scum. Seriously.

Except through careful use, we'll never be sure. I will not outline how that would work, the scum might not be that bright, but I guarantee that it wouldn't be hard. First, the only confirmed bulletproof was lynched so we can't even be sure that's what you would be targeting. Second, you want to keep a dangerous role alive so it can be used to no benefit, redirecting a role that can't be redirected. What is the point of that and what happens when someone of unknown allegiance grabs it first thing, another day of fighting, which only helps the scum. A dangerous role that can only help the scum in so many ways.

Nope. Statistically you were going to pick a townie target no matter what your alignment, I took a gamble that the person I thought was scum actually was and ended up wrong. I may regret it, but I certainly wouldn't have stepped forward with any information if I was scum, I'd just take that victory and move on. You wanted to take out the only role we have that could give us a chance, but don't see the value in the one role that gives them the chance to manipulate everything. Right...

If I had redirected to Draggy, I certainly wouldn't tell his role. If I was scum, I wouldn't have even mentioned the possibility of a second cop to give Tammo the chance to at least face his scum investigation with some logical alternative. I would have also made damn sure that another scum grabbed it quickly. Instead, as town, I'm worried that is exactly what happened, possibly through discovery by a flavour cop as has been proposed above. Whatever the case, the role needs to die, it can only hurt us in the long run. As for using the role, I was not told it was optional and anything else I could have done would have been just as risky. We don't know that we can block anything successfully, that's just a flat misdirection as advice. From the guy that wanted to kill the vig after revealing it irresponsibly.

Draggy.

Your kill got to one of them, the one I picked. I still stand by that choice, I just wish it had been right. If I was scum, I wouldn't have said a word about any of it and I certainly wouldn't have corrected my mistake. I may be crazy but I'm not stupid, if I was playing a gambit, it would make a lot more sense than this.

I never said that. I mistook who I redirected you to, originally thinking I had gone with Mencot when it was TPRU. I have never once claimed not to have redirected you, I was just wrong at who I redirected you to use your action on. As for that not being a town move, as I have explained, I thought you revealing vig was suspicious and potentially scummy enough that redirecting you might mean killing a scum instead of a townie. I've also explained why TPRU and Mencot both looked suspicious to me. If I was trying to hurt the town, I would have directed you at yourself and gotten rid of the vig kill right then and there. Yes, I'm sure that would have been possible. Why are you trying to change the whole situation now when people can easily look up exactly what I said?

Killing me doesn't prove anything or keep the scum from getting a valuable action. Vote: The Joker (Tamamono) As for Draggy, the only conclusion I can come to is that his inactivity got him killed. Best I've come up with so far.