Toastie
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I absolutely agree. And my point was: >Without doing any programming<, but using an app provided by TLG. For first time users, as this is what TLG is clearly targeting. New Now I am lost. Forgive me, but I am not using TLGs prefab programs. I did some very basic "programming" using the PUp App - and then left that alone. OK, step by step. First things first: Are you talking about the programming mode in the PUp App? I believe so. Lets assume that. I did not know there were any channels when using PUp, which is async. BLE. This sounds like PF, where we have 4 "channels". Is that so? Now, there is my hub. How do I select the channel, I want to use for that hub? Is that in the PUp App in programming mode? User written program again refers to the programming mode in the PUp App, correct? If so, of course, a user-written program allows all. I believe, I missed something. My point really is: If TLG wants to push the PUp system for their targeted customers (first timers) than exactly PUp could take care of so many issues - because, as you said - the system allows that. Programming gurus will readily do it - but those folks are maybe not of the type "I buy 2 sets, because it looks right to do so". And my question is: Do they really do that? Or is PUp for "them" (the folks in charge, i.e. accounting and marketing) - just another "remote + receiver" thing? Which it is absolutely not? Best, Thorsten
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Oh I know that - but it would be surely a feature of a TLG pre-built "program" running on the PoweredUp App. I mean various PUp enabled sets (Crocodile, city train (cargo), city train (passenger), Disney train - and the piano and what not) - have their own app to make sounds and whatnot. When you plainly pair a remote with the two port hub, attach a train motor, than you can step-wise increase/decrease the motor power - and stop it. Of one or two motors individually. Two thoughts: It appears as if the passenger train set comes with lights - and there goes the second port. Now I buy two of these sets. My question was: Does TLG provide a prefabricated program (like for the croc) for this set of two? This is clearly what they intend customers to do - as they did in the past: Buy two sets - otherwise it looks stupid. However, without doing any custom programming or without a prefabricated croc-like program from TLG, upon turning one remote on, it will grab the hub turned on next. Then the other remote has to be turned on - and it will pair with the other hub turned on. And then you'd have to do the "PF like dance" hoping that both receivers set to the same channel receive the signals from the remote in sync. And this would have been the very big advantage of PUp over PF: With two HE sets you were stuck with one remote controlling two PF receivers hopefully synchronously - IR is IR after all (yes I know, can be built in another way - did that - but not my point, I am talking out-of-the-box features, because the target audience is out-of-the-box as well, as discussed above). And some folks struggled with that, when looking back (again, not the train heads, but the parents not interested in LEGO trains or confusing electronics) you can pull these message up even here on EB. With a nice and shiny new app for the PUp App - let's call it the "2x60337" app - as you said, the PUp system lets you readily pair 2 hubs with one remote and it would simply automatically reverse one motor direction - and then with one dial you would run the entire train and with the other, you would turn on and off both light simultaneously. That is what I asked. But as far as I can see, when starting the PUp App on my phone, there is no "2x60337" app. Best, Thorsten Why should TLG do that? Best, Thorsten
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Pretty much so ... I don't have them; nice to read your judgement. Now, since you have two sets - does the PUp App app for this train allow you to control both motors "in parallel"? Do you "pair" one remote with two hubs and then off you go? Best, Thorsten
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And not "only" that. Of course "they" do exist - in our mechanical workshop, where "they" operate all sorts of "heavy machinery" - including DMU 50s and other - there are actually 2 out of 6 of these individuals. Not my point, as I find this an absolutely desirable (much better 3:3) "mix". I will say this: There is regularly a >very< big difference discussing a "layout", CAD drawing, possible alternatives with males or not-males. For whatever reason. I did not use "females" because I want to leave this entirely open. However, in our workshop, as far as I can tell (I don't care at all), there are workers, adhering to these two varieties: Women and men. And that is at least fantastic (the mix, not the gender), it makes such a big difference. And yes, TLG is doing a very good job regarding this "mix". All the best, Thorsten
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Define "knock-offs" One thing that is always (as far as I am concerned) smart: Explore, where the competition is. Or heading to. What they do. And then: Stay ahead - in business, that is. Well, partly in research as well, supposed you run a larger fraction of your activities - or better research "staff" (= BSc/MSc/PhD students + post docs) - on soft money. As I do ;) BB "Specials" are mostly if not entirely designed by BB designers. That is not that much of a knock-off, but rather original designing. Same thing TLG is doing with IDEAS or the "other" program on BL, they boldly purchased. The bricks the BB folks use are of course from China - but the patents ran out for long - so in the real world we are living in, these aren't knock-offs, but commonly available products. Other than in TLG universe, of course. Or in the mindset of their inhabitants. All fine with me. There is one thing, I really don't like at all: Don't watch, don't listen, don't say anything - about things you know by experience and validation. But then: We all agreed to the EB forum rules. So I have deleted that link in my above post. Regards, Thorsten P.S.: @andythenorth sorry for getting you in trouble - you may want to consider removing your link to BB as well ...
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In my opinion, that represented a) a very nice statement and b) a fine taste for quality and functionality, rather than being lazy. Best Thorsten
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That is entirely correct. However, there are multiple alternative examples, where exactly that additional sets approach seem to work well. It does not work for TLG because they do push an entirely different business model. That is fine, it is their carefully and consciously decided choice. Take a look here: Link deleted due to forum rules (by me) and then argue that this business model does not work. These folks expand, have opened multiple stores (actually "mega"-stores; it appears as if nothing works anymore without hyperbole). Are they targeting kids? No. But it works. So TLG could do the same thing - with certainly less profit as they currently rake in, for sure. And that is their choice - and is fine with me. TLG also targets the entirely non-kids market - with their black boxes containing bricks to make shoes and stuff. Again: Entirely profit optimized. As is everything in their universe; either by minimizing part count (e.g. City) or maximizing price (e.g. 18+). Again: I am entirely fine with that; they are successful, and that is what rules. They just lose me more and more - and this does not make any difference to them. Nor to me, as I found alternatives, I am very happy with. Win-win! Best, Thorsten
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That is so true - actually I am not that impressed at all by the old-school stuff other than trains, carriages, other functional stuff, and most importantly functionality of the 12V system, as this represents playability for the kids a little older than simply those wanting to push along (or even getting bored by that). And then: 4554 is 21 years old (21 years ago, that was the year, Ukraine became independent, the first Gulf War was waged, and it marked the first year of the internet ...) since then, TLG has cranked out so many and diverse bricks'n'plates - they really could do better. But they don't want to and that's simply it. Has been amply discussed here. As some still envy the olden "glory" days, others do see a beautiful modern or even future building style in an 8x8x8 cube with maybe a door and a window. And I am entirely OK with that. See, "I" do it my way, you do it your way and others do it their ways. And sometimes we are all on the same page - and mostly we are not, because we are all individuals. Unfortunately, the "I-want-section" in Homo sapien's brain has grown (not developed, simply grossly grown) much, much more rapidly than any other region, particularly the "We-section". Which appears to actually shrink. It is what it is. Best wishes, Thorsten
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Thus far, I am just collecting all the Fifty Shades of Grey. Doesn't make much sense to dye - as someone being a little dim on colors (I though the new passenger train was orange ... ) - I do like all bright and well-defined, make no mistake colors like BLUE and YELLOW or even GREEN. Greywise, I call myself an expert, though. Best Thorsten
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Man! That >is< a nice word. I have never ever seen that combination of letters! Google knows it (of course) If you don't mind, I'll post that in our group chat as a proposal for the next "word of the week" - thus far, "epiphany" was there for a long time. Best, Thorsten (BTW, in one of the meetings of the Am Soc Mass Spec couple of years ago, one of our posters had the number 667. The guy with #666 did not know what was going on, that was fun)
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... and certainly nothing wrong with real people dying their hair in a wide variety of colors! Best, Thorsten
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Oh so true. Yes, have heard of it - but I'm taking another route: Metal rails (= TLGs 9V stuff) permanently powered with 15 V DC, power pickups (= 9V train motors either without motor or split power line) feeding >via bridge rectifiers< either the PF LiPo (directly), the PF bat boxes and RC train bat box (w/ NiMH rechargeables) via voltage regulator, and they in turn power the PF receivers and PoweredUp hubs. RCX' can go directly w/ track DC (buffered with NiMH's). Advantage: Track polarity, sudden polarity changes no problem (why's etc.), 99.5% all LEGO stuff. Best, Thorsten Too difficult for profit maximization. Best, Thorsten
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Well, and that's entirely OK! Been to a train station lately though? My guess is yes, but I really don't see a "comfortable space". The café appears to be ... empty (the guy though caught a croissant - and the ticket booth seems to have space for one customer, but no employees. Again, OK, we are living in a modern world. In that world, though, you either purchase your tickets online - or someone is actually sitting behind a desk, helping out. The latter is surely phasing out, as "we" move on. All that is great, but certainly not representing a beautiful train station. It's a minimum and a mix of past and present. Again: Which is OK for $XY!!! Best, Thorsten Well, maybe in your area on the planet, not in mine. It all depends ... on so many things. Best, Thorsten
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@TeriXeri, nice analysis. I'd take also into consideration: Max profit for TLG, based on max fan base (not LEGO related >at all< (Addidas ...) + adults or folks having enough money at their disposal (which depends on country/continent, and product). Best, Thorsten
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Absolutely! That's the railway station of "my" town "Gruiten" - somewhere (nowhere) in Northrhine-Westphalia, population 6000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haan-Gruiten_station Did that for 20 years, now on the bike. Best, Thorsten
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What happened? Reality paired with delusion - and making max. profit - when it comes to TLG. Honestly? I believe in the "current" world, excitement and romance of travel is an SUV with Bose All Around Sound System, 20°C constant internal temperature (or as you see fit), no care-about-gasoline-endless-supply, multiple airbags around you, about 2 cm of metal armor around you, and a navigation system that can elevate you above any traffic jam, and always finds a parking spot next to the entrance of a super mall having it all. Held at 20°C. Optionally, AIM9 SideWinders to clear way. I ride my eBike to work, 30 km return trip, 200 m elevation, recharged by a panel on the garage. Rain? Sure, most of the stuff does not hit you(!), but others . Temperature? Matter of insulation, at least where I live, mid-Germany. What do they call me? At best "though" - mostly "weird". Maybe that happened to the romance of travel - I believe that I am a most fortunate individual, having such an opportunity to "travel" to work. It always depends on the perspective ... I can clearly see your reasoning. Not surprising, I guess. Best, Thorsten
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Oh yes, this is how it is. So true! The thing though is, once you have a solid reputation (and reinforced in education, classrooms ...) and operate in an essentially "receiving" market ("why does TLG not give us ..."), the down-to-a-price approach actually makes economic sense. To a certain extent - and as far as I am concerned, time span. The competition is building. Strongly. And with ever-increasing pace. We'll see. So far, we have a new shed Best, Thorsten
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Well, I don't like the cargo train either, so - I don't care (Actually, I am glad to give >easy< passes on all three new train sets, otherwise it would have been: "Let the discussions begin" with the financial department = my wife). However, when it comes to trains, PoweredUp really kicks in. I don't mean remote controlling nor the stupid battery crunching, but rather automation - either full or semi or just here and there. And not with TLGs graphical phone/tablet software (which BTW has "matured" into a rather congested, complex environment - reflecting the sheer HW/firmware functions the hubs/sensors/actuators come with), but - as usual - with 3rd party open source software (PyBricks, Legoino, and others). Regarding the latter, PoweredUp becomes so much more, PF ever was/was designed for. All the best, Thorsten
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As I absolutely share your judgement on the appeal of the would-be-station, I really don't believe the TLG designers are lazy, in contrast. I believe that there is marketing (and accounting) telling them "make a station - any station - with a maximum of these bricks'n'plates" (accounted for by cost, not number). I believe when they see their allowance, they certainly need some help from Jack Daniel or any other guy in that branch and then begin their work. Which is more of a headache than any fun, so I believe. And when they have come up with something, it goes to accounting. They then have a program that a) takes as many pieces out without letting the structure collapse and b) optimize everything color-wise, i.e. use as many pieces currently in surplus. b) does not bother me, see above, a) does not bother me because I won't buy that "station" as it is a shed. Miserable or not, but a shed. And man is that IDEAs train station nice. Wow. I missed that, think you for referencing that one. Will never ever be approved - as it is not an Addidas shoe or the like. Best, Thorsten
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Oh well - my world is much "simpler" as for many, I believe ;) Bright Yellowish Green = Bright Orange = Bright ... Thanks for letting me know - I feel a bit more educated. Just ... weird colored circles for me: And yes, I have such a T-shirt Best, Thorsten
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Of course - otherwise, that train does not make much sense. I bet the PUp app "comes" with that set takes care of having two hubs, two motors, and two light sets to control. All doable. Will be interesting. Best, Thorsten
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What about 10233? Yes, this one has DBG - but orange/black/white ... oh well, I am color-blind, so maybe it is not comparable. Best, Thorsten
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It really depends: Are you chasing PUp functionality or PUp programming? If so, go to BL, and purchase a new 4port hub for €14 (used €10) and new PUp L motors for €14 (used €12) and leave the brick's'pieces alone; the sum is about €40 (I am always going with used stuff, but that is me, it is even cheaper; motors of that age don't really age as don't hubs). When you want to go nuts on remote control controlling ... cars/motive devices ... buy one of the two, as discussed above. Best, Thorsten Forgot: And never ever buy these PUp devices from TLG. They are simply unhinged, when it comes to "prices".
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Good that this train runs on batteries - otherwise the pantographs may have difficulties in sucking in juice. Well, alternatively, the cars on top have their windshields etc. removed and the catenary just runs "through" them. Yes I know, kids don't care about that. Best, Thorsten
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Oh yes - at that time most alternatives, along with the ever and rapidly increasing demand for almost "everything" (Homo sapiens on a roll), were really becoming much less competitive. For one, "military" and "expansion" was, is, and as it appears will be always strong motivation for some folks to deeply think about idiotic things. In addition, after all the medieval centuries of nonsensical pseudo-science, some folks were really at it; in addition to applied science came basic science (the stuff that just goes into books and tables, without knowing for what - other than having this touch of sophistication - that's what I do for a living ). Carnot literally developed an entire theory (Thermodynamics) to make steam engines more efficient (and for what did he do that? Yes, to make France win a war ... sigh), which was then further propelled by Rankine, Clausius and Thomson and others. Around 1850-60 a full-blown theory turned the steam engine simply into an engineering challenge. It was all there: Just make the "hot" heat reservoir as hot as possible, the "cold" heat reservoir as cold as possible and put a nifty mechanical machine in between. Without blowing the thing into pieces, which happened quite often, those days. Same holds true for steam locomotives, which became comparably efficient machines, outperforming almost every other means of generating useful motive power. Until the arrival of the internal combustion motor - just another fall-out type thing of Thermodynamics . And a bad one, I believe ... I have the LEGO Saturn V here on my desk. I sometimes think: What idiots would a) actually make such a thing and b) what idiots use an elevator to get to the top and then blast off to the moon, in hope to return safely. Oh well, what do I know. It is for the sake of our future, I guess. Best, Thorsten