LDraw/MLCad "Models" folder issue

[L@go]

Hi there!

I don't venture much into this part of the forum - in fact I think it's the first time I've been here. But I've run into a problem with MLCad that I can't figure out, and after having done some searching on Google and EB I can't find any topics about it either. So I thought I'd ask to see if anybody had encountered it before.

I've just bought a new stationary computer after nine years (don't ask). I've used LDraw/MLCad extensively over the past eight years or so, so I dare say I have a reasonable amount of experience with the program. Here's the bug: When installing LDraw/MLCad on it, I added a MODELS folder to the LDraw folder - there was one on my old computer that I didn't put there, so I assume it was put there originally by the installer waaaay back when. Problem is, when I open files from that folder (going through the process of automatically substituting the older files with new versions, like the cheese slope - that's a neat function) and then save them, they don't save to that folder. Instead, they seem to go into another folder which is supposed to be at the exact same location - but when I try to find it using Windows Explorer it's just not there. I can access the files through the file tree in MLCad, but I can't find them through Windows Explorer.

I thought it might have something to do with the fact that I added the MODELS folder myself, so I tried to remove that folder, then opened MLCad again and tried to access the files. And lo and behold, something inexplicable happened: I can now access the five files that I've updated since I installed MLCad on this computer - through another MODELS folder, which the file tree in MLCad says is located in the exact same spot as the old one was. And those are the same five files that I couldn't - and still can't - find through Windows Explorer. Because when I go to that exact same location through Windows Explorer, the MODELS folder is not there. The two programs give me two different versions of which folders and files exist in that location on my computer...

Does this sound completely greek to you? It does to me. For now, I'm tempted just to delete the whole program, re-install it, and then try to save a new file and see where it goes. If the program then creates a MODELS folder, I'll copy the old files into that.

...oh, and here's another weird twist I just discovered. When I moved the MODELS subfolder out of the LDraw folder and onto my desktop, I could still access and open those five aforementioned files - within MLCad - from the location that shouldn't really be there, the 'ghost' MODELS folder. But if I then choose Open File and try to copy the file from there and move it somewhere else, I get an error message that says the file is no longer located in the MODELS subfolder, so it can't be moved. And this seems perfectly logical - except from the fact that the program can still open those same files from that same location where the computer says they no longer exist...

And when I then move the MODELS subfolder back from my desktop into the LDraw folder, and try the same, I suddenly have ALL the files to choose from: The original files that I copied from my old computer, plus the five new and modified ones. All in the same location. When I now try to copy one of the files through the Open File method, within MLCad, it works just fine. It now lets me copy the new files and add them to the MODELS subfolder, through Windows Explorer. So yes, I can do it that way, but it seems like an awful lot of extra trouble: Save a new file, click Open File, copy the file, paste it into the folder (where MLCad tells me it already is, which Windows Explorer categorically denies) so it will be visible through Windows Explorer as well. And it needs to be visible through Windows Explorer in order to be openable in LDView...

My brain is melting.

Edited August 26, 2014 by L@go

[legolijntje]

Haha, I've completely read this and at the end I was

Since you can access the files from MLcad, they must exist. Do you use the same harddisk from the old pc or did you copy everything (the models) to a new harddisk from the old one?

Maybe you can give a little more detail about the facts. It's a detailed story, but things like the actual folder paths would be nice. And maybe your OS?

I understand what you mean (it's a miracle ), it's just always difficult to help with these kind or problems from a distance

[C3POwen]

Problem is, when I open files from that folder (going through the process of automatically substituting the older files with new versions, like the cheese slope - that's a neat function) and then save them, they don't save to that folder. Instead, they seem to go into another folder which is supposed to be at the exact same location - but when I try to find it using Windows Explorer it's just not there. I can access the files through the file tree in MLCad, but I can't find them through Windows Explorer.

Assuming that your LDraw installation is installed to the default location (C:\Program Files (x86)\LDRAW), I suspect that the files you're saving are being saved to the "VirtualStore" folder:

%USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\LDRAW

This is what Windows uses when a program tries to write back to a folder contained within the "Program Files" folder, which is locked down by default. MLCad probably looks to its installation folder for its primary files, meaning it wouldn't show any of your updated files.

You can get around this by altering the permissions of the "C:\Program Files (x86)\LDRAW" folder, giving yourself Modify permissions to this folder, which would resolve the issue of MLCad having to write any changes to the "VirtualStore" folder. Windows might warn against this, but it shouldn't cause too many issues if you're a responsible user.

[mrfuture]

Hi again. I did a search on my work computer. I installed MLcad/Ldraw there for some testing earlier and found the MODELS folder under My Documents/Ldraw. Not under Program files/ Ldraw where the main program and parts is.

[L@go]

Thanks for the replies, guys! I'll have another look into it when I get back from work tonight, but I think C3POwen might be onto something here. The path is indeed C:\Program Files (x86)\Ldraw.

I did a search on my work computer. I installed MLcad/Ldraw there for some testing earlier and found the MODELS folder under My Documents/Ldraw. Not under Program files/ Ldraw where the main program and parts is.

That is true, there is indeed a MODELS folder there, but that is not where MLCad stores the files I build - that one contains only pre-built official sets that came with the program.

[L@go]

And bingo. I changed the security permissions on the folder so that all users now can modify elements in it - that won't be a problem since I'm the only user. I saved a new file in MLCad - and there it was, in the MODELS folder, even when viewed in Windows Explorer. Just as it should be. Thanks a lot, C3POwen - I never would have managed to figure that out by myself.

EDIT: I also just found, like you said, the original files in the VirtualStore folder. You, Sir, are a genius :D

Edited August 27, 2014 by L@go

[legolijntje]

I wouldn't have found the solution either. That's a solution to remember, not only for LDraw.

I've never heard of the VirtualStore folder, probably because I'm always admin on my own pc's.

This was definitly a good question with a very good answer

[L@go]

The strange thing is that I most certainly am admin on that PC. But it still tells me I "need permission" for certain actions, after which I can immediately give myself permission. Very annoying and utterly unnecessary. I don't know, maybe it's Windows 8.

[legolijntje]

I have Windows 8.1 and yes, there are some cases in which I need to grant myself access to do something. But that's very rarely the case (and understandable because that involves things like system32 folder, apps folder etc.).

But if you're admin and you had no access to the program files folder

Or, I just realize this, you have access, but MLcad doesn't. Try running it as administrator (right click > run as administrator). If it does work then, your security settings are a bit high.

Take a look at your UAC (User Account Control) and take a look at how high it is

[C3POwen]

Thanks a lot, C3POwen - I never would have managed to figure that out by myself.

EDIT: I also just found, like you said, the original files in the VirtualStore folder. You, Sir, are a genius :D

Thank you very much!

This was definitly a good question with a very good answer

And thank you to you too!

The strange thing is that I most certainly am admin on that PC. But it still tells me I "need permission" for certain actions, after which I can immediately give myself permission. Very annoying and utterly unnecessary. I don't know, maybe it's Windows 8.

Although yes, you have an administrator-level account, you still need elevated/specific rights to make changes to certain system folders, such as the "Program Files" folder. This wasn't an issue on XP, but was locked down by Microsoft on later operating systems, such as Windows 7 and 8.

With the "Program Files" folder, I just grant my own account elevated permissions to the subfolders I need (such as the LDraw folder) for them to function properly, and leave the rest alone. This usually solves issues with legacy programs that think they're running on XP!