How do you do digital print on LEGO Minifigures?

[BrickNote]

I was wondering if anyone in the LEGO community could help shed some light on how to do digital printed LEGO customs like Minifigs4u. I understand you can do pad printing, however that's just to expense at the moment and decals personally I don't think look good. Digital printed Minifigures in my mind look the best and my research has lead me to think that you need something like a digital flat-bed printers. I was wondering if anyone else had figured out how to do digital printed figures and I hope you can help me out.

[DarkKnight7]

Well, to be blunt, you either have to buy a flat bed UV digital printer (like a Roland or DCS printer) either of which cost about $3,000-10,000, depending on who you buy from, or you could search out a UV digital printer dealer in your local area and ask for who they have set up that might do Legos or ABS plastics. Just depends if a) you have the money and time to learn how to do it properly, or b) you have a little less money and would like to trust someone else to do it. I would say do a little research on those printers first, and then make up your mind. Either way, it will cost you a bit of money, so if you don't have that first, it might be difficult to print legos to sell on your own. Might want to just find someone who does it in the community. Good luck!

[PremiumCustomWork]

The other guy is incorrect on the price. These printers will run you $30,000-$150,000 and aren't for everyone. We do a lot of digital printing and will print for other people under certain agreements. I agree with you on digital over pad and not because of cost because we have pad printers too. FM me if interested.

[BrickNote]

Alright thanks

Edited August 26, 2013 by BrickNote

[PremiumCustomWork]

The sad part is. Unless you're a company, you don't need printing. Waterslide decals can give very very good results depending on the paper used, the ink and the color matching. Getting someone to apply them for you who has access to LEGO's color palette is a good option if you can't do it yourself. But if you just want the printed piece, we offer a service to anyone to get their design printed. You send the design in and we print it and send you a free one if we can sell 5 of them. We only do heads and torsos for the public though. It's in exchange for us to continue to sell the printed pieces to make up for lost time and setup fees. So we wouldn't be profiting off the design.

[Andy D]

The sad part is. Unless you're a company, you don't need printing. Waterslide decals can give very very good results depending on the paper used, the ink and the color matching. Getting someone to apply them for you who has access to LEGO's color palette is a good option if you can't do it yourself. But if you just want the printed piece, we offer a service to anyone to get their design printed. You send the design in and we print it and send you a free one if we can sell 5 of them. We only do heads and torsos for the public though. It's in exchange for us to continue to sell the printed pieces to make up for lost time and setup fees. So we wouldn't be profiting off the design.

Sounds good, but how does one contact you?

Andy D

[PremiumCustomWork]

Sounds good, but how does one contact you?

Andy D

You can email us at premiumcustomwork@gmail.com

[BrickNote]

Do you have a link to where I could get this type of stuff done? Like a company?

[DarkKnight7]

The other guy is incorrect on the price. These printers will run you $30,000-$150,000 and aren't for everyone. We do a lot of digital printing and will print for other people under certain agreements. I agree with you on digital over pad and not because of cost because we have pad printers too. FM me if interested.

Yes, correct, I forgot the other zero, I need to check my writing a bit closer. This ($30,000-$100,000) is indeed the price range i was given by these printer vendors. But, I would disagree on the UV prints vs. pad printers. (Though this is highly debatable in the Lego custom community). The quality of both can vary from printer to printer and all depends on both the quality of the physical printer itself and how well it is maintained and how well the printer is trained on using it, in the case of the UV digital printers) and the experience of the printer. The most crisp and cleanest prints IMHO come from pad printing, without a doubt. Digital prints are not as sharp or clean looking, as they usually have a bubble effect that doesn't always translate as cleanly. By bubble effect, I mean that digital printing adds a secondary layer to the top of the figure surface that you can feel, which can be cool if done for a purpose (like eclipsegrafx' Apoc Drifter fig, which has a textured shirt printing all around the torso or BrickArms prototype Russian Ushankas with the insignia), but when putting them next to other Lego figs, it looks a bit odd. When you look close, the bubbles make some elements stick out (like edge lines to "muscle" or eyes or any pocket outlines) that shouldn't. And most importantly for me, printed heads look a bit odd, as eyes and mouths stick out above the surface of the head. Pad printing does not do this and has a cleaner finish, just like TLG's actual figs. While it can be a bit cheaper, if you are doing this for a business and printing in large enough bunches to sell, I wouldn't go with digital, as they aren't that much cheaper.

Now, this doesn't mean that I don't like digital prints, as I do like them if done well, but overall I like the quality of pad printed figs better. What digital printing does have over pad printing, IMHO, is that you can print fades and shades, and other design elements that otherwise couldn't be printed on pads. Also, printing on legs is MUCH easier with digital than pad. I've been working with a pad printer for some time trying to perfect the leg prints, as Lego legs have a difficult print area on the front, whereas the digital print was done as it was sent, little hassle other than making sure the colors matched correctly to the design.

I think the key is that it is very expensive to buy yourself and you will have to rely on the printers that are out there for the LEGO community unless you plan on starting a business. Good luck on this and feel free to email me if you have more questions about this, as this is something I've worked on for years to find the right solution.

[PremiumCustomWork]

Yes, correct, I forgot the other zero, I need to check my writing a bit closer. This ($30,000-$100,000) is indeed the price range i was given by these printer vendors. But, I would disagree on the UV prints vs. pad printers. (Though this is highly debatable in the Lego custom community). The quality of both can vary from printer to printer and all depends on both the quality of the physical printer itself and how well it is maintained and how well the printer is trained on using it, in the case of the UV digital printers) and the experience of the printer. The most crisp and cleanest prints IMHO come from pad printing, without a doubt. Digital prints are not as sharp or clean looking, as they usually have a bubble effect that doesn't always translate as cleanly. By bubble effect, I mean that digital printing adds a secondary layer to the top of the figure surface that you can feel, which can be cool if done for a purpose (like eclipsegrafx' Apoc Drifter fig, which has a textured shirt printing all around the torso or BrickArms prototype Russian Ushankas with the insignia), but when putting them next to other Lego figs, it looks a bit odd. When you look close, the bubbles make some elements stick out (like edge lines to "muscle" or eyes or any pocket outlines) that shouldn't. And most importantly for me, printed heads look a bit odd, as eyes and mouths stick out above the surface of the head. Pad printing does not do this and has a cleaner finish, just like TLG's actual figs. While it can be a bit cheaper, if you are doing this for a business and printing in large enough bunches to sell, I wouldn't go with digital, as they aren't that much cheaper.

Now, this doesn't mean that I don't like digital prints, as I do like them if done well, but overall I like the quality of pad printed figs better. What digital printing does have over pad printing, IMHO, is that you can print fades and shades, and other design elements that otherwise couldn't be printed on pads. Also, printing on legs is MUCH easier with digital than pad. I've been working with a pad printer for some time trying to perfect the leg prints, as Lego legs have a difficult print area on the front, whereas the digital print was done as it was sent, little hassle other than making sure the colors matched correctly to the design.

I think the key is that it is very expensive to buy yourself and you will have to rely on the printers that are out there for the LEGO community unless you plan on starting a business. Good luck on this and feel free to email me if you have more questions about this, as this is something I've worked on for years to find the right solution.

Well.. We've been at this since 2000, so we have oodles of experience with UV, Solvent, and Pad printing. The lesson would be more suited for the other viewers. I do say Digital is indeed better(as a fact), because the longevity of the piece is really what matters. How good your product is. While Pad may offer a more aesthetic result at times, it is not the main priority. It is number two. It would actually be a better, smarter, and more economical decision to get a digital printer rather than a pad printer. More and more printers each day switch from Pad to Digital. I think we can agree that digital is much faster than pad(but is still not simple. It takes us a week to perfect 5 figures). In the end, you're going to get tires of making plates, cleaning ink cups or replacing trays, and having to take extra precaution with alignment. Different printers do give different results, and sadly, the thickest ink is the strongest. So far out of all my tests, we have the strongest ink and the most long-lived figures at that. And then you have the boot problem. I believe we were the first to solve that problem using a digital printer. There is a reason why we own both Pad and Digital. Pad is used for objects that are round, or have a lot of detail in them. But eventually, they'll have digital printers that are almost like pad printing.

[raminator]

I´m really interested in this too. When I did my research that led into this I came across two things that might be cheaper but might have not the same quality as UV-Prints.

The first thing I noticed when walking threw a mall. There was a finger-nail-studio offering printing on your finger nails. Later when back home I googled for such a nail-printer. They cost about 1000€-5000€. But then I found this: "Barbie dolled up nails" that is/was alot cheaper

. Sadly, afaik, it isn´t produced anymore.

The second thing is called Golden Digital Grounds (

). It´s basicly a liquid the enables you to print with ink on surfaces like plastic. Like seen in the video it is ment to use with "paperlike" objects. But there´s Printers that can print on CDs/DVDs, so are able to print on thicker objects too. This might not help to print on torsos but atleast on tiles.

You´ll find the Nail-Printer on the big internet-shop that´s starts with an "A", but there´s only one left.

The Liquid is available from the same shop but also might be found in crafting or art shops.

Hope this was not too Off-Topic.

[eclipsegrafx]

I am sorry for the late post to this but it was just brought to my attention.

1. You do NOT need 30-100k to buy a digital printer. Yes there are some in that price range but you can get them cheaper. And depending on what you need it for the cheaper ones may suit your needs.

I have found digital (not UV) printers starting at about 5k. THe difference is the curing process and the ink durability. With a regular digital printer you would need to seal the ink in some manner so it doesnt wear off as easy.

I have found UV solvent inkjets starting at about 20k. A little easier to swallow then a 30k printer but it does do the same work, quality and if bought from the right company you can get some nice warranty packages with it (not extra).

Pad printers can start at about 700 for a manual 1 color printer and go up from there. A decent 2 color printer could be about 3-5k. Some of the companies out there start with a 1or 2 color machine and just run the projects through multiple times to get the needed amount of colors on their project. For 4 colors and up you can start spending about 20-30k and upwards. I do not imagine there being a need to spend more then 40k on either technology.

For pad printing the 2 important ingredients are the pads you are using and the ink. The machine is just a middle man to get your artwork to where you need it.

Well.. We've been at this since 2000, so we have oodles of experience with UV, Solvent, and Pad printing. The lesson would be more suited for the other viewers. I do say Digital is indeed better(as a fact), because the longevity of the piece is really what matters. How good your product is. While Pad may offer a more aesthetic result at times, it is not the main priority. It is number two. It would actually be a better, smarter, and more economical decision to get a digital printer rather than a pad printer. More and more printers each day switch from Pad to Digital. I think we can agree that digital is much faster than pad(but is still not simple. It takes us a week to perfect 5 figures). In the end, you're going to get tires of making plates, cleaning ink cups or replacing trays, and having to take extra precaution with alignment. Different printers do give different results, and sadly, the thickest ink is the strongest. So far out of all my tests, we have the strongest ink and the most long-lived figures at that. And then you have the boot problem. I believe we were the first to solve that problem using a digital printer. There is a reason why we own both Pad and Digital. Pad is used for objects that are round, or have a lot of detail in them. But eventually, they'll have digital printers that are almost like pad printing.

More and more people are not moving over to digital because of durability and what not, its just cost effecient and simpler then making plates. Pad can produce more product in the same amount of time as digital can. Apples to apples. There are many reasons why most companies WILL NOT transfer over to digital. You will never get the same level of clean details with digital as you can with pad, you will not get the same coverage either. Pad allows you to print better on rounded surfaces where digital has huge limitations.

Yes digital can withstand more tests but when its scratched it chips away alot easier then pad.

LEGO for one, will never switch over to digital, atleast not in the foreseeable future with current digital technology.

Yes, correct, I forgot the other zero, I need to check my writing a bit closer. This ($30,000-$100,000) is indeed the price range i was given by these printer vendors. But, I would disagree on the UV prints vs. pad printers. (Though this is highly debatable in the Lego custom community). The quality of both can vary from printer to printer and all depends on both the quality of the physical printer itself and how well it is maintained and how well the printer is trained on using it, in the case of the UV digital printers) and the experience of the printer. The most crisp and cleanest prints IMHO come from pad printing, without a doubt. Digital prints are not as sharp or clean looking, as they usually have a bubble effect that doesn't always translate as cleanly. By bubble effect, I mean that digital printing adds a secondary layer to the top of the figure surface that you can feel, which can be cool if done for a purpose (like eclipsegrafx' Apoc Drifter fig, which has a textured shirt printing all around the torso or BrickArms prototype Russian Ushankas with the insignia), but when putting them next to other Lego figs, it looks a bit odd. When you look close, the bubbles make some elements stick out (like edge lines to "muscle" or eyes or any pocket outlines) that shouldn't. And most importantly for me, printed heads look a bit odd, as eyes and mouths stick out above the surface of the head. Pad printing does not do this and has a cleaner finish, just like TLG's actual figs. While it can be a bit cheaper, if you are doing this for a business and printing in large enough bunches to sell, I wouldn't go with digital, as they aren't that much cheaper.

Now, this doesn't mean that I don't like digital prints, as I do like them if done well, but overall I like the quality of pad printed figs better. What digital printing does have over pad printing, IMHO, is that you can print fades and shades, and other design elements that otherwise couldn't be printed on pads. Also, printing on legs is MUCH easier with digital than pad. I've been working with a pad printer for some time trying to perfect the leg prints, as Lego legs have a difficult print area on the front, whereas the digital print was done as it was sent, little hassle other than making sure the colors matched correctly to the design.

I think the key is that it is very expensive to buy yourself and you will have to rely on the printers that are out there for the LEGO community unless you plan on starting a business. Good luck on this and feel free to email me if you have more questions about this, as this is something I've worked on for years to find the right solution.

Yes, correct, I forgot the other zero, I need to check my writing a bit closer. This ($30,000-$100,000) is indeed the price range i was given by these printer vendors. But, I would disagree on the UV prints vs. pad printers. (Though this is highly debatable in the Lego custom community). The quality of both can vary from printer to printer and all depends on both the quality of the physical printer itself and how well it is maintained and how well the printer is trained on using it, in the case of the UV digital printers) and the experience of the printer. The most crisp and cleanest prints IMHO come from pad printing, without a doubt. Digital prints are not as sharp or clean looking, as they usually have a bubble effect that doesn't always translate as cleanly. By bubble effect, I mean that digital printing adds a secondary layer to the top of the figure surface that you can feel, which can be cool if done for a purpose (like eclipsegrafx' Apoc Drifter fig, which has a textured shirt printing all around the torso or BrickArms prototype Russian Ushankas with the insignia), but when putting them next to other Lego figs, it looks a bit odd. When you look close, the bubbles make some elements stick out (like edge lines to "muscle" or eyes or any pocket outlines) that shouldn't. And most importantly for me, printed heads look a bit odd, as eyes and mouths stick out above the surface of the head. Pad printing does not do this and has a cleaner finish, just like TLG's actual figs. While it can be a bit cheaper, if you are doing this for a business and printing in large enough bunches to sell, I wouldn't go with digital, as they aren't that much cheaper.

Now, this doesn't mean that I don't like digital prints, as I do like them if done well, but overall I like the quality of pad printed figs better. What digital printing does have over pad printing, IMHO, is that you can print fades and shades, and other design elements that otherwise couldn't be printed on pads. Also, printing on legs is MUCH easier with digital than pad. I've been working with a pad printer for some time trying to perfect the leg prints, as Lego legs have a difficult print area on the front, whereas the digital print was done as it was sent, little hassle other than making sure the colors matched correctly to the design.

I think the key is that it is very expensive to buy yourself and you will have to rely on the printers that are out there for the LEGO community unless you plan on starting a business. Good luck on this and feel free to email me if you have more questions about this, as this is something I've worked on for years to find the right solution.

You are correct, for larger batches, pad printing is best by far. The amount of time it would take to make 1000+ head prints on a 2-4 color pad printer would be a fraction of what it takes on the digital. Though the extruded texture of the ink that you mention here can be reduced by more experienced printers. I have been striving to achieve near pad quality on my stuff. If you look on my flickr our latest designs have a mix of raised and not raised prints on them. It really all depends on what you are shooting for.

Though I predominantly print with digital I prefer pad. But because I do figures in smaller batches with multiple colors, digital becomes more economical for me for now. I do offer both pad and digital prints though.

Check us out on flickr or our website. (hope its ok to mention this here if not moderators please feel free to delete this) thank you.

I´m really interested in this too. When I did my research that led into this I came across two things that might be cheaper but might have not the same quality as UV-Prints.

The first thing I noticed when walking threw a mall. There was a finger-nail-studio offering printing on your finger nails. Later when back home I googled for such a nail-printer. They cost about 1000€-5000€. But then I found this: "Barbie dolled up nails" that is/was alot cheaper

. Sadly, afaik, it isn´t produced anymore.

The second thing is called Golden Digital Grounds (

). It´s basicly a liquid the enables you to print with ink on surfaces like plastic. Like seen in the video it is ment to use with "paperlike" objects. But there´s Printers that can print on CDs/DVDs, so are able to print on thicker objects too. This might not help to print on torsos but atleast on tiles.

You´ll find the Nail-Printer on the big internet-shop that´s starts with an "A", but there´s only one left.

The Liquid is available from the same shop but also might be found in crafting or art shops.

Hope this was not too Off-Topic.

That looks very nifty and fun to play with it. Id like to get my hands on one of those sets.

Edited September 21, 2013 by eclipsegrafx

[PremiumCustomWork]

I am sorry for the late post to this but it was just brought to my attention.

1. You do NOT need 30-100k to buy a digital printer. Yes there are some in that price range but you can get them cheaper. And depending on what you need it for the cheaper ones may suit your needs.

I have found digital (not UV) printers starting at about 5k. THe difference is the curing process and the ink durability. With a regular digital printer you would need to seal the ink in some manner so it doesnt wear off as easy.

I have found UV solvent inkjets starting at about 20k. A little easier to swallow then a 30k printer but it does do the same work, quality and if bought from the right company you can get some nice warranty packages with it (not extra).

Pad printers can start at about 700 for a manual 1 color printer and go up from there. A decent 2 color printer could be about 3-5k. Some of the companies out there start with a 1or 2 color machine and just run the projects through multiple times to get the needed amount of colors on their project. For 4 colors and up you can start spending about 20-30k and upwards. I do not imagine there being a need to spend more then 40k on either technology.

For pad printing the 2 important ingredients are the pads you are using and the ink. The machine is just a middle man to get your artwork to where you need it.

More and more people are not moving over to digital because of durability and what not, its just cost effecient and simpler then making plates. Pad can produce more product in the same amount of time as digital can. Apples to apples. There are many reasons why most companies WILL NOT transfer over to digital. You will never get the same level of clean details with digital as you can with pad, you will not get the same coverage either. Pad allows you to print better on rounded surfaces where digital has huge limitations.

Yes digital can withstand more tests but when its scratched it chips away alot easier then pad.

LEGO for one, will never switch over to digital, atleast not in the foreseeable future with current digital technology.

You are correct, for larger batches, pad printing is best by far. The amount of time it would take to make 1000+ head prints on a 2-4 color pad printer would be a fraction of what it takes on the digital. Though the extruded texture of the ink that you mention here can be reduced by more experienced printers. I have been striving to achieve near pad quality on my stuff. If you look on my flickr our latest designs have a mix of raised and not raised prints on them. It really all depends on what you are shooting for.

Though I predominantly print with digital I prefer pad. But because I do figures in smaller batches with multiple colors, digital becomes more economical for me for now. I do offer both pad and digital prints though.

Check us out on flickr or our website. (hope its ok to mention this here if not moderators please feel free to delete this) thank you.

That looks very nifty and fun to play with it. Id like to get my hands on one of those sets.

You should learn that printing on LEGO is just a needle in the haystack of digital printing. More and more companies ARE switching over to digital because it costs them less, they get a higher quality(more durable) product and it takes less time to setup(more or less). We know this from hundreds of other printers, and we aren't just in the biz for LEGO. I think I noted that pad is better for round surfaces, but digital can print 360 degrees too(think we were the first to do that on LEGO). It may be easier than pad though. We have experience with all those printers. Solvent I would say is the most durable because it eats into the plastic. It's thinner than pad printing. It should only be used on white surfaces though, or your color is thrown off. You can use white with solvent but is is unattractive. I prefer digital because you get more for less, and it still looks good.

[eclipsegrafx]

You should learn that printing on LEGO is just a needle in the haystack of digital printing. More and more companies ARE switching over to digital because it costs them less, they get a higher quality(more durable) product and it takes less time to setup(more or less). We know this from hundreds of other printers, and we aren't just in the biz for LEGO. I think I noted that pad is better for round surfaces, but digital can print 360 degrees too(think we were the first to do that on LEGO). It may be easier than pad though. We have experience with all those printers. Solvent I would say is the most durable because it eats into the plastic. It's thinner than pad printing. It should only be used on white surfaces though, or your color is thrown off. You can use white with solvent but is is unattractive. I prefer digital because you get more for less, and it still looks good.

Its funny I hear directly from UV printer companies (the companies themselves) that people who are already using Pad don't switch over as often as new buyers would because the clarity isn't the same. But if you think you can speak for those companies outside of your expertise level then by all means I am sorry for contradicting you.

You also weren't the first to print 360 on lego. ;) Trust me on that one.

Actually solvent is the LEAST durable of the three. It is OLD technology. Again from years of experience and working with other companies. It does not eat into the plastic like UV and Pad does. And in the end, cost of time and materials, a pad printer really does more then a digital can. Albeit you still need more maintenance but the results rendered are still worth it. Lastly, unless you are using cheap ink, pad ink also bonds ("eats") into the plastic as well. Thats why some LEGO torsos are harder to erase then others.

I come from a background of this stuff from before LEGO and have been in the printing and designing industry far longer then I have been in the LEGO community.

[PremiumCustomWork]

Its funny I hear directly from UV printer companies (the companies themselves) that people who are already using Pad don't switch over as often as new buyers would because the clarity isn't the same. But if you think you can speak for those companies outside of your expertise level then by all means I am sorry for contradicting you.

You also weren't the first to print 360 on lego. ;) Trust me on that one.

Actually solvent is the LEAST durable of the three. It is OLD technology. Again from years of experience and working with other companies. It does not eat into the plastic like UV and Pad does. And in the end, cost of time and materials, a pad printer really does more then a digital can. Albeit you still need more maintenance but the results rendered are still worth it. Lastly, unless you are using cheap ink, pad ink also bonds ("eats") into the plastic as well. Thats why some LEGO torsos are harder to erase then others.

I come from a background of this stuff from before LEGO and have been in the printing and designing industry far longer then I have been in the LEGO community.

We are expert printers. We print more than LEGO, est. 2000

We are on the same level as them because we're trained by them. Remember, we own all the printers.

Who was the first to print 360 degrees with a digital printer on LEGO? Also, I didn't add the date that we did it.

Our solvent pretty much never comes out. I've tested it against pad printing. Pad does eat a little into the plastic, but I don't think it's nearly as much as solvent. Which companies have you spoken to. Sounds like you've been talking to those DIY t-shirt printer guys.

We also come from a background of printing. Printing is really only worth it if you're going to do other stuff besides LEGO.

BTW, pad printing is old technology.

[eclipsegrafx]

LOL No I have not been talking to DIY tshirt printer. Thats a funny comment to make. You print more then LEGO? Interesting...

In a recent conversation you told me you were just designers not printers and now you are telling me you are the printer too? What is the correct story now?

But solvent is old inkjet technology that companies are phasing out for UV inkjet. Pad companies aren't phasing out Pad for UV though.

I have been biting my lip here to not bring the Flickr drama here. Eurobricks is a awesome community and does not need to be tarnished by lies and embellishments. I won't be responding anymore to reduce the outbreak that is sure to follow.

I am sorry to all the EB moderators. Keep up the good work. :)

[raminator]

That looks very nifty and fun to play with it. Id like to get my hands on one of those sets.

I hope to find one of this barbie printers here in germany, but I do not know if it was ever released in europe. So I might just try the Liquid + Cd-Printer combo.

Btw...allthough it is a funny read, the flickr-discussion about pcw should stay on flickr.

[eclipsegrafx]

Raminator- I apologize for how the conversation quickly went south. I was asked to come post and shed some light on pricing for printers and the rest... Well sorry.

If you have some spare funds and are willing to explore the world of printing I believe a pad printing starter kit costs about 1500. It would come with everything needed to print (including 1 color pad printer) and to make plates. I am not sure how readily available it is in Germany though.

Edited January 30, 2017 by eclipsegrafx

[raminator]

No problem =) it was just something I thoughed I should mention before this topic gets closed by an admin.

I already found some Pad Printing starter kits over at ebay. The cheapest one is 300€ (about 400$) but quality seems to awful according to some forums.

For what I´m doing even this is too expensive since I´m just doing the figures for just myself.

Currently I´m using stickers but am not totally satisfied. That´s why I started some tests with rubber stamps. The Idea is similar to pad printing, so pp might be the next logical step somewhen in the future.

Would be nice to have some more Information/links about/to that company and maybe where to get colors in small quantities.

thanks in advance

Edited September 22, 2013 by raminator

[PremiumCustomWork]

Raminator- I apologize for how the conversation quickly went south. I was asked to come post and shed some light on pricing for printers and the rest... Well sorry.

If you have some spare funds and are willing to explore the world of printing I believe a pad printing starter kit costs about 1500. It would come with everything needed to print (including 1 color pad printer) and to make plates. I am not sure how readily available it is in Germany though. If anyone be interested I can link you to a reputable company that offers a variety of said machines.

Expert pad printers know that there is a lot of pad printing marketing in Germany ;-)

But yes apples to apples, they both have their advantages. I think we can agree to leave it at that.

[PremiumCustomWork]

Also, thought I should add: I mean we print more items than just LEGO. Cell phone cases, laptops, USB's cd's, golf balls, etc. Not more LEGO's than LEGO's. Thank you.

[shiftaltcmd]

Reading the discussion I believe there are still some things to consider and to look at.

Sorry for the big images but it's easier to see the details.

The look and feel will be different between pad printing and inkjet. See images below.

Inkjet will give a blurry, rasterised look. Pad printing have a cleaner solid look. Compare the print on the scarecrow and the flower.

A inkjet print is made by millions of tiny drops of ink. Pad printing is more like the old potato print that you might tried out at school. Inkjet mixes 4 colors: cyan, magenta, yellow and black to get the whole range of colors. Pad printing uses one specific color for each pad (spotcolor). The torso of the scarecrow have five colors, black, green, yellow, brown and tan.)

It's possible to get close enough with inkjet. The apple is good enough at a small distance. Only at close-up like this you can see the imperfections.

The solid black prints that I made works the best. Only one color is needed which minimizes the need of mixing colors.

In pad printing each color that you add, will also make the total cost higher. Not only that you have to make more pads, there will also be more errors and more copies that you have to throw away, simply because they are not good enough.

Inkjet, you have millions of colors to choose from, no extra cost. But it is difficult to exactly match colors.

With pad-printing you can choose special colors like metallic. You can also have colors that are more saturated than CMYK-colors. CMYK-colors are transparent, light passes through the ink and reflects from the surface beneath the ink, that's why you will always have the best result while printing on something white. (Some inkjet printers have solved this by adding white to the traditional CMYK-colors. First you print a white layer, and afterwards the CMYK-colors on top of that.)

With pad-printing the colors doesn't have the be transparent, so you can print on darker materials.

It is almost impossible for an outsider to exactly match Legos colors. Every website I have visited have been useless. There are many websites that presents RGB and CMYK values for Lego colors but they make no sense. There are different kinds of RGB and CMYK, so without telling which one the numbers are pointless. It's like saying that I caught a fish that was 25. 25 what? 25 inches, 25 centimeters, 25 pounds, 25 kilogram … ?

I used the Pantone values from the Peeron color list. I don't know if those values are the correct ones from Lego or if someone else tried to estimate the correct values. Anyway I took the Pantone values and converted them into CMYK according to the ISO-standard (Europe). I discovered that many colors are impossible to reproduce correctly with traditional CMYK-print. Mostly they are too saturated or too bright.

Compare the image below. The upper row is colors created with RGB-values (RGB are for example the colors that a digital camera can capture or a screen can show.) The lower row is how these colors will look like in CMYK-print. If you try to print that image the upper and lower row will come out as identical. You can see that it's mostly the bright saturated colors that are impossible to match. Green and orange are among the most difficult.

Other colors like browns, greys, sands are a delicate mix of all four CMYK-colors. Very difficult to keep the balance.

That's why Lego uses spotcolors like Pantone (there are other industry-standards, RAL is common for cars and architecture, NCS is popular in Sweden …). You use spotcolors to be more consistent in production. It's better than CMYK (but still not perfect, Lego have problems being consistent with some colors.)

Yes, I know there are photoprinters that has a wider color-range. For example Epson and Canon makes brilliant photo-printers with 6-8-10-12 colors instead of the usual 4. But I haven't seen any flatbed UV inkjet printers with photoquality like that. But maybe in the future.

I would choose pad print to large runs. Inkjet for small runs.

Anyone that has any good closeups on the Comicon special minifigures, they might be borderline then it comes to economy. Many of the comicon minifigs seems to use 2-3 colors. Cheaper and easier to produce compared to the Scarecrow below.

I also do prints on vinyl. In many cases that's easier and better, especially with transparent vinyl. Transparent, no white paper edge and I don't have to match the background-color with Legos color. Even Lego themselves do this on their stickers. And no bricks are hurt in the process.

Edited September 28, 2013 by shiftaltcmd

[DarkKnight7]

I am sorry for the late post to this but it was just brought to my attention.

1. You do NOT need 30-100k to buy a digital printer. Yes there are some in that price range but you can get them cheaper. And depending on what you need it for the cheaper ones may suit your needs.

I have found digital (not UV) printers starting at about 5k. THe difference is the curing process and the ink durability. With a regular digital printer you would need to seal the ink in some manner so it doesnt wear off as easy.

I have found UV solvent inkjets starting at about 20k. A little easier to swallow then a 30k printer but it does do the same work, quality and if bought from the right company you can get some nice warranty packages with it (not extra).

Pad printers can start at about 700 for a manual 1 color printer and go up from there. A decent 2 color printer could be about 3-5k. Some of the companies out there start with a 1or 2 color machine and just run the projects through multiple times to get the needed amount of colors on their project. For 4 colors and up you can start spending about 20-30k and upwards. I do not imagine there being a need to spend more then 40k on either technology.

For pad printing the 2 important ingredients are the pads you are using and the ink. The machine is just a middle man to get your artwork to where you need it.

More and more people are not moving over to digital because of durability and what not, its just cost effecient and simpler then making plates. Pad can produce more product in the same amount of time as digital can. Apples to apples. There are many reasons why most companies WILL NOT transfer over to digital. You will never get the same level of clean details with digital as you can with pad, you will not get the same coverage either. Pad allows you to print better on rounded surfaces where digital has huge limitations.

Yes digital can withstand more tests but when its scratched it chips away alot easier then pad.

LEGO for one, will never switch over to digital, atleast not in the foreseeable future with current digital technology.

You are correct, for larger batches, pad printing is best by far. The amount of time it would take to make 1000+ head prints on a 2-4 color pad printer would be a fraction of what it takes on the digital. Though the extruded texture of the ink that you mention here can be reduced by more experienced printers. I have been striving to achieve near pad quality on my stuff. If you look on my flickr our latest designs have a mix of raised and not raised prints on them. It really all depends on what you are shooting for.

Though I predominantly print with digital I prefer pad. But because I do figures in smaller batches with multiple colors, digital becomes more economical for me for now. I do offer both pad and digital prints though.

Check us out on flickr or our website. (hope its ok to mention this here if not moderators please feel free to delete this) thank you.

That looks very nifty and fun to play with it. Id like to get my hands on one of those sets.

Great points here, Victor, and with all your experience doing figures, I think you got all the main ideas perfect. Couldn't agree more with what was said! Pad printing is better quality, UV ink is better economical sense for some projects...still good quality, but not as good as pad. (Though the point raised about "boot" printing on the fig is one issue that makes it more reasonable to go to UV, but I'll still take pad over UV if possible here)

[LegoFanDK]

Hi everyone in this thread. Im curious to hear your thoughts on where the digital print technology is today.

Is it faster? is it as durable? Is the quality and detail compareable to pad print or better? Is it cheaper than pad printing? What is the ideal setup for digital printing on Lego both in small volume and in large scale high volume. 

 

[MAB]

Now LEGO do actually offer custom printed torsos in some locations where you can buy single printed figures. They use digitial printing. PAD printing is really only suitable for huge runs. It is faster and cheaper per part for huge runs. However, for smaller runs, digital printing is faster and cheaper as there are no set-up costs or time for the PAD printing cliches.