RI5 Biped with 5 control+ motors

[CheungsLegoCreation]

Hi all,

Just want to share with you a RI5 creation that I have been working on for a few weeks. It is a biped robot built with 5 control+ motor and the Robot Inventor hub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfAfLVE8jtw

The next step is to build the same bot using Control+ and hopefully by the time the build is done I will be able to program it using the new PoweredUp App.

Enjoy!

[Lok24]

This is a nice built!

1 hour ago, CheungsLegoCreation said:

The next step is to build the same bot using Control+ and hopefully by the time the build is done I will be able to program it using the new PoweredUp App.

with "Control+" (which is the app only) you mean two technic Hubs with 4 ports each?

Yes, they can be progarmmed with the powered Up App since a long time, my latest program (with an old version) was controlling the CAT, before the offeclial release...

But: Now your programm ist running in the Hub! Then it would be running in your smart device which takes time so send and receive.

Or you use pybricks, which make programs resident in the Hubs, you could then use two LEGO remote controls

[CheungsLegoCreation]

Yes, you are correct Lok24, with Control+, I meant using the Technic Hub (with 4 ports). The main reason why I switched to the Mindstorms hub was because it would be faster for me to test the build without having to go through all the PoweredUp App drag and drop programming :(

There are quite a bit of challenges using 2 technic hubs, with the weight of the battery being the main issue (which means I have to strengthen the tilt and move mechanism). 

I also checked out Pybricks as well but I am not sure if it would offer remote control based functions (I want to be able to control the bot using a remote) and at the same time pressing a button to allow it to perform some "autonomous function" (like the object scan and move to the closest object sequence).

Perhaps it's time for me to dig deeper into Pybricks documentation :)

Thanks for your feedback!

[Lok24]

1 hour ago, CheungsLegoCreation said:

I also checked out Pybricks as well but I am not sure if it would offer remote control based functions (I want to be able to control the bot using a remote) and at the same time pressing a button to allow it to perform some "autonomous function" (like the object scan and move to the closest object sequence).

There are some points:

you have to use beta.pybricks.com instead of code.pybricks.com, version should be 3.1 then, only this supports the remote

one remote can only communicate with one hub

no communication between hubs

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Lok24

[ord]

This is great! A lot of Lego bipeds that I see don't lift their feet off the ground but rather shuffle. You managed to get the feet to clear the ground and make it look like a humanoid, well done. 

I recently made a program in the Powered Up app that controls two technic hubs and I thought it worked quite well (in terms of ease of programming, connecting and remote controlling). I couldn't get the ultrasonic sensor to work with it though. I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if it's just not supported.

[Lok24]

3 minutes ago, ord said:

 I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if it's just not supported.

I think it's not supported, there is no tile/icon for it. Same with force sensor, I fear.

[CheungsLegoCreation]

22 hours ago, ord said:

This is great! A lot of Lego bipeds that I see don't lift their feet off the ground but rather shuffle. You managed to get the feet to clear the ground and make it look like a humanoid, well done. 

I recently made a program in the Powered Up app that controls two technic hubs and I thought it worked quite well (in terms of ease of programming, connecting and remote controlling). I couldn't get the ultrasonic sensor to work with it though. I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if it's just not supported.

Thanks ord, I did use the PowererUp App to program another biped (for more details, refer to the video https://youtu.be/4cuJaQPoVP4, it was controlling 2 hubs) but the programming experience for me has been painful (I do programming for living).

I think during one of the LEGO fan session some rep from LEGO was saying a new powered up app will be coming later this year and all the sensors will be supported (and potentially find a way to store the program into the brick without using a smart device to send commands through, therefore should provide better performance). But let's wait and see.

On 10/27/2021 at 9:54 PM, Lok24 said:

There are some points:

you have to use beta.pybricks.com instead of code.pybricks.com, version should be 3.1 then, only this supports the remote

one remote can only communicate with one hub

no communication between hubs

 

Thanks Lok, I will definitely check out the beta version of pybricks :)

[Lok24]

 Hi @CheungsLegoCreation

 

6 minutes ago, CheungsLegoCreation said:

Thanks ord, I did use the PowererUp App to program another biped (for more details, refer to the video https://youtu.be/4cuJaQPoVP4, it was controlling 2 hubs) but the programming experience for me has been painful (I do programming for living).

 

One of the main problems to me: varibale names!

7 minutes ago, CheungsLegoCreation said:

I think during one of the LEGO fan session some rep from LEGO was saying a new powered up app will be coming later this year and all the sensors will be supported (and potentially find a way to store the program into the brick without using a smart device to send commands through, therefore should provide better performance).

 

As far as I know following is announced:
- support for other device-IDs (what should  solve the sonic problem)
- new Icon-design
- documentation(!)

The method to load programs into the hub (via VM ware) I would not expect for this year.

 

[ord]

@CheungsLegoCreation oh I see! Nice Biped! And also lots of other nice bipeds on your channel. Thanks for the info about the app update - they would be welcome features.

For me Pybricks is the ultimate. It's just lacking at the moment for multiple hub support, as Lok24 said, unfortunately.

[CheungsLegoCreation]

I am starting to experiment with the Raspberry Pi Lego Build HAT now and so far things are looking good (apart from the need for using an older version of the RpiOS) and I am enjoying the python based coding experience so far.

The build hat only has 4 ports which means I can only hook up 4 motors, but with a bit of clever gear switching I should be able to create quite a bit of useful actions :)

[Toastie]

11 hours ago, CheungsLegoCreation said:

The build hat only has 4 ports which means I can only hook up 4 motors, but with a bit of clever gear switching I should be able to create quite a bit of useful actions :)

But that would a 4 port hub (call it Control+ hub or Technic hub) do as well, right? OK, you get the PI's computing power, but 4 motors may not require that, isn't it ?) learning curve here - gone through/still with RCX PBricks with three motor outputs/3 sensor inputs and 32k of RAM (and still don't touch any memory limits).

Sure, no way to run any variant of Python, but LEGO byte code, entirely focused on the RCX hardware, is - I'd say - rather powerful. But - time goes on ... I know. 

Best,
Thorsten

[Lok24]

11 hours ago, Toastie said:

But that would a 4 port hub (call it Control+ hub or Technic hub) do as well, right?

 

As mentioned: the HAT has quite different properties: you can connect a camera to the PI, or other electronical stuff, inluding audio, set up a webserver to control your model etc.

The intention of the HAT is not to replace the technic hub, but to connect powered up devices to a rapsberry Pi.

[Toastie]

14 hours ago, Lok24 said:

connect powered up devices to a rapsberry Pi.

Yeah, I believe I got that already. I am more curious about: For what? Certainly not for the sake of being able to make the connection, that is sort of trivial for those out there, who understand BLE at low level (and have the protocol at hand).

With regard to "for what"? PUp devices are actuators and sensors. Now they can be connected to a RPi. Pretty bulky that setup with that HAT, isn't it? So it is less for mobile, or even autonomous creations, but more so for stationary stuff requiring motors, distance/color sensors and the like, correct? It does not make that much sense to have a mobile PUp propelled web server equipped with audio and camera features moving around, right? Or am I missing something?

Best
Thorsten   

[Lok24]

7 hours ago, Toastie said:

Certainly not for the sake of being able to make the connection, that is sort of trivial for those out there, who understand BLE at low level (and have the protocol at hand).

 

If you just want to understand robotics/programming  (i.e. in an educational context) it might not be useful to start at zero.

 

7 hours ago, Toastie said:

With regard to "for what"? PUp devices are actuators and sensors. Now they can be connected to a RPi. Pretty bulky that setup with that HAT, isn't it? So it is less for mobile, or even autonomous creations, but more so for stationary stuff requiring motors, distance/color sensors and the like, correct? It does not make that much sense to have a mobile PUp propelled web server equipped with audio and camera features moving around, right? Or am I missing something?  

Yes, you're missing, that it offers the chance co connect the two worlds (microcontroller and PU). And therefore much more possiblites using the GPIOS to expand  PU concerning communication and control.  What's wrong with that?
I can imagine lots of applications, and there is nothing similar on the market.

[CheungsLegoCreation]

On 11/17/2021 at 8:51 AM, Toastie said:

But that would a 4 port hub (call it Control+ hub or Technic hub) do as well, right? OK, you get the PI's computing power, but 4 motors may not require that, isn't it ?) learning curve here - gone through/still with RCX PBricks with three motor outputs/3 sensor inputs and 32k of RAM (and still don't touch any memory limits).

Sure, no way to run any variant of Python, but LEGO byte code, entirely focused on the RCX hardware, is - I'd say - rather powerful. But - time goes on ... I know. 

Best,
Thorsten

Hi Thorsten,

My intention of using the Raspberry Pi + the Build Hat is to make a smallish autonomous robot that would run around my house and do different things. 4 motor connections from the build hat should be enough for now (if not I will look into connecting the RI5 hub using bluetooth to control more motors / sensors) and the RPi will be used as the primary "brain" to drive things around.

My first task is going to be hooking up a camera and train the Pi to do object recognition (so that later on I can play fetch with the bot as it can then use the build hat to drive the bot to pick up the object and return it to me :)).

It is probably going to take a few months but that's part of the fun I suppose :)

/cheung 8)

 

[Toastie]

On 11/18/2021 at 8:48 AM, Lok24 said:

What's wrong with that?

Well, I don't get why you believe that I am saying that there is something wrong? I am asking a couple of things that are simply unclear to me, that's all.

See, I am closely following TLGs microcontroller approach since the age of RCX and SCOUT. Then went back a bit when I had the chance to do so - Code Pilot etc. To be honest, TLG wise (and not user wise) I am seeing this: Robots that follow lines. Or detect obstacles with ultrasonic detectors and do something in reply. Dig out the Mindstorms Robotics Invention box, take the latest Mindstorms Robot Inventor box and although technology wise, capabilities are exploding with increased computing power, the "official ideas" of what to do with all that power are remaining fairly ... constant. And I am not talking about the IDEs, skins for operating the features of the microcontroller. I am leaning a more towards the close-to-hardware side. And as far as I am concerned, the RCX, pimped with the RobotC firmware is rather powerful in that regard. And that's all there is.

Also: I believe to have understood that one can't make money on a system that ran on DOS on Win95. Nor that anyone should do so. That's quite clear even to me. I am just interested in what do the hardware = LEGO Moc now and what were they capable of accomplishing back then. With or without camera; Vision Command was really never ever exploited to the extent they could have. Why not? I believe because electronics moves >much< faster full forward than the ideas what to actually do with it.   

You see, I need to find a reason to motivate the family accepting another x hundred Euro ticket - and much more so my very own brain to become willing to actually do that. And then I am asking questions. And replies like the one from @CheungsLegoCreation give me some ideas. His/her route is not necessarily my route, but who knows: Ideas are the important thing here.

And I sure hope, there is nothing wrong with that.

Best
Thorsten 

[Lok24]

10 hours ago, Toastie said:

You see, I need to find a reason to motivate the family accepting another x hundred Euro ticket - and much more so my very own brain to become willing to actually do that.

You always argue from the LEGO point of view and disregard all the rest. We're talking about a raspberry product.

Imagine you come from the microcontroller community and have already a PI and now want to connect motors ...... and here is a way to get drivers, libraries, motors, sensors and so on to move something.
It ist not a LEGO product.

And I am surprised that the ideas of @CheungsLegoCreation are interesting to you - I mentioned in my first reply already the idea of using a camera or others.

In summary:a raspberry offers much more connectivity than a LEGU HUB. And much more different software.
And is very much cheaper than a RI set !
And does things very different from  the technic Hub.

But for me EOD, as it has nothing to do with with the woderful robot of @CheungsLegoCreation

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Lok24

[Toastie]

3 hours ago, Lok24 said:

You always argue from the LEGO point of view and disregard all the rest.

Well, no? Just look up here or elsewhere what I do, when I find some time. Good fraction of non-LEGO stuff present.

3 hours ago, Lok24 said:

We're talking about a raspberry product.

Thank you for clarifying - but, well, in fact I did notice that.

3 hours ago, Lok24 said:

Imagine you come from the microcontroller community

I absolutely don't come from that community, but I do play with 8051s since long, use a good number of microchip's PICs, regard my Z80/8255 board as "microcontroller" as well, use the Arduinos, the ESPs - and love TTL logic chips. The old ones ;)

Yes, EOD.

Hope that @CheungsLegoCreation will post on progress here!!!

Best,
Thorsten   

[Tcm0]

18 hours ago, Toastie said:

See, I am closely following TLGs microcontroller approach since the age of RCX and SCOUT. Then went back a bit when I had the chance to do so - Code Pilot etc. To be honest, TLG wise (and not user wise) I am seeing this: Robots that follow lines. Or detect obstacles with ultrasonic detectors and do something in reply.

I think that this is geared towards more advanced users because a raspberry pi isn't that easy to use. Maybe to collect some measurements for a scientific project, maybe for some KI project or something, something like mapping a room etc.

Also, it's cheaper. It might be geared to schools - but it might be too complicated for them.

But personally I don't think that this makes much sense. You can get a technic hub for less money, or a technic set with motors if you start from zero. There are python libs to remote control the hubs and you don't waste the GPIO pins of the pi that way.

[CheungsLegoCreation]

@Toastie and @Lok24 - I will certain start a new thread on my adventure with the build hat. And thanks to suggestion from @Tcm0 I will once again check out the python libs for connecting to the 4 port control+ hubs as well ( I couldn't figure out how I could miss those libraries, perhaps I will have to start learn to use a search engine properly again =P)

Have a good weekend everyone!

[CheungsLegoCreation]

Hi all, 

Long time no post. Hope you have all been well. This is my 5th generation bot Bot 5 featuring a variable step distance of 2, 4 and 6 units. This is almost similar to Bot 3 I built a couple of months ago except for a much more stable body tilt mechanism.

The step size can also change during movement. Although it moves slower than Bot 3, the movement design should allow it to handle more load (I am planning to attach yet another hub on the bot and use the new hub to drive more motors / sensor - will just have to see how it goes).

As always, feedbacks are welcome and HAPPY BUILDING!

Regards,

Cheung 8)