Pirates Mafia III - Day Five

[Emmett Ware]

2 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

I'm sorry. This shocked the hell out of me. Are you saying that you don't think Fabien is scum?

I kind of don't. I said I had some doubts earlier and nothing has assuaged those, especially his over-the-top cooperation with it. What do the scum have to gain by cooperating? If he's a scum killer, we probably would have a vig and do we even have a hint of that? If so, they could kill him anyway, I assume.

40 minutes ago, Peter Lyon said:

I think we lynch Fabien, block Vincent again, and then pick one of the others of us to block and track tonight.

I don't oppose the plan, I just feel like it might not be the best option. As for picking who to track, I'll be doing that on my own, I have little doubt that at least one of the town block was poorly chosen and is leaking information. It's why I tried to wait so long to include my intended action, I don't trust it.

[Andrew Laurent]

If we had a vig, he could have easily been one of the early losses - Remi, Michael, or Jean. 

And yes Peter, sometimes letting a known scum live IS the best option. If you know you can contain them, you can keep their ability useless rather than letting it be passed to someone else. And in case he's NOT scum, it's keeping a townie alive to keep our numbers higher. If we are able to catch 2 other scum and the game is still going, then we lynch him and see if it ends. If he's town, I'd expect the scum to let him live (so that one of our blockers is tied up every night) as long as possible. 

Emmett, if you're not comfortable sharing your plan with Fred and I that's fine. There's not any reason we need to know ahead of time what you're doing. If you want me to share my block plan with you I will, since I'm pretty darn convinced you're loyal. I'm also leaning significantly town on Fred, so I do plan to coordinate with him how we block tonight. 

[Trenton Monette]

I think lynching Fabian would be be the best plan. Simply because if we hold off for today it gives the scum an extra night to make a kill. Fabian hasn't offered much of a defence. If Fabian is the scum killer does the scum kill pass on to another scum? And if so are we in a situation like Pirates and Forest Mafia where the scum can get two night actions? Either way I think Fabian is the best plan for tonight. 

[Emmett Ware]

Just now, Andrew Laurent said:

If you want me to share my block plan with you I will, since I'm pretty darn convinced you're loyal.

You should do what your comfortable with, so that would be fine. I can't even point to a specific instance of any plan being interfered with, it's just a feeling.

Just now, Trenton Monette said:

If Fabian is the scum killer does the scum kill pass on to another scum?

It wouldn't surprise me. Or they have a pool of actions and can take turns doing things, which means that a lot of our results are useless. I really hope that isn't the case or we're doomed.

[Aiden Leon]

1 hour ago, Emmett Ware said:

If so, they could kill him anyway

In which case, maybe we should focus on someone else if Fabien is gonna get yeeted anyway by scum if he is town?

[Vincent Denis]

2 minutes ago, Aiden Leon said:

In which case, maybe we should focus on someone else if Fabien is gonna get yeeted anyway by scum if he is town?

Aiden, I should've thought of this earlier, but I should really claim, shouldn't I? What if my role confused something. Know what I mean?

*Fwoooom*

[Aiden Leon]

3 hours ago, Andrew Laurent said:

It'd also let him over-ride the will of the town if most people want to lynch Fabien. 

Which is why I wouldn't use it even if I heavily read the person being lynched as town. If he was lynched though, I would have pardoned Vincent just to piss of Daniel. That would've been awesome. At least it would be for five seconds before Daniel shit the bed and strangled me with the soiled sheets.

BTW you are flip-flopping around and making a lot of faulty evaluations that that can have a lot of holes punched into them.

[Aiden Leon]

12 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

 

You can claim if you want but you don't have any other info to offer since you haven't used your role, so people won't get anything new to use to cross reference and that sort. 

[Vincent Denis]

1 hour ago, Emmett Ware said:

 I said I had some doubts earlier and nothing has assuaged those, especially his over-the-top cooperation with it.

*Fwom fwomma fwom fwom*

This worries me. I thought if anyone could see through the layers of BS I sense in Fabien's responses, it would be you. Everything Fabien has responded with gives me more reason to suspect him. I know this game has exhausted you, but the air is clearer today. There are still some long posts but if you read them, there's more coherence discussion occurring today than ever before in this game.

Here's why I'm not buying Fabien's answers:

• Occam's Razor: Fabien was blocked on Night Three and there was no kill. Later, he admits to being a killer. This used to be an automatic lynch in the "old days."
• Metagaming the host: There was no vig in Pirates II (the inventor could make a gun or knife or some killy thing). Bob limited PMs because he felt the scum had a hard time in Pirates II. Do you think he'd add a vig when he thought the town might be over-powered in Pirates II? He did reduce the number of town roles, so maybe. I could go either way with this and it's metagaming, but still...
• Evolving story: Fabien claims to be the vig, roughly 44 hours ago. 18 hours ago he updated that claim with limitations. "I have limited kills." "I can't kill two nights in a row." 
• Must be lynched: Andrew's brain vomit ramblings (I do it too, no offense) are right about one thing. It seems he wants to free up the other scum (1 or 2?) to kill. Fabien claims that lynching him is the only way to prove his claim. Why, exactly? If we block him again and there's a kill...then...that would confirm it?
• Acting alone: Strongarm killing Daniel was a blessing to this game and I will be forever grateful. But he made the decision unilaterally. There is enough coordination behind the scenes that I feel he should've at least floated the idea to someone. This may be a super weak point, but it was a thought and I can't have a thought without typing it out, so... 
• Contradictory thoughts: Thinks the scum will withhold their kill to implicate innocent Townies who are blocked, yet has the ability to kill. His original theory depends upon there not being another killer in the game. So, why would he float this idea if he has the ability to kill?

Hopefully, bullets will make my wall of text easier to read. Every time I go back and read Fabien's claim I waiver over why he would claim if he was scum. Why wouldn't he sit there and let day after day go by with him being blocked and the town not knowing why there aren't kills. I think Andrew's point about freeing up the other scummo to kill might be correct. Let's look at potential Day Six with Fabien and I blocked overnight. There's no kill again. Oh well, then if Fabien is the vig, Vincent must be the scum killer! Daniel was right all along! I get lynched. I flip Town. Fabien is lynched anyway on Day Seven. But, then why not take that risk and potentially get another townie lynched in the mean time... ?  I don't know. Maybe because he assumes we'd be forced to claim anyway at some point and that's all he's got. If he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth, so why not jump out with his claim?

On 4/23/2020 at 9:06 AM, Fabien Bellamy said:

If there's a serious attempt at lynching me, I will claim, and people will believe me. 

This is not what I imagined when he said this.

*Fwom fwomma fwom fwomma fwom fwom, fwooom fwomma fwom fwomma fwom fwom fwom*  joo-joo eyeballs, he one "Fwoooooooma fwom fwomma fwom fwom*

30 minutes ago, Aiden Leon said:

You can claim if you want but you don't have any other info to offer since you haven't used your role, so people won't get anything new to use to cross reference and that sort. 

Thinking more about it, on the off chance that Fabien is Town, I'd probably get lynched for not revealing it. I'm willing to take that risk and give myself another chance to play it correctly. Think about this, if I do play it correctly, I'll get lynched anyway.  

*Fwoooom fwooooooom*

[Vincent Denis]

*Fwom fwom*

I've had some additional thoughts (I'm sure you're all so happy about that.  ) regarding Fabien claiming vig, if he is scum. The day started with Peter and I being blocked and Daniel was supposed to block Fabien. The typical scum reaction in that position would be to say, "I was blocked last night." No idea what happened. He was intending to go that way, with his first post:

On 4/26/2020 at 3:27 PM, Fabien Bellamy said:

I don't get it.

Then, he admittedly lurked, supposedly, waiting for a scummo to have a slip of the tongue. It's this first post that makes me think he's definitely scum. He did get it. He tried to make us believe he was as confused as the rest of us would be, minus the other scum players. I think the real reason he lurked was to gauge our responses. As you can see, as Andrew and I went through the Night Actions results, the conclusion still pointed to Fabien. So, he knew he had to claim. I don't believe he waited to reveal it in order to catch Scum. What would that have looked like?

Stupid Scummo: I don't get it! We didn't kill Daniel. So, who did? Do you guys have a vigilante? Oops!

In the first few hours, Andrew votes for me. No reason for him to claim if I'm getting lynched. He might get the added bonus of me claiming my role. Scum know I'm telling the truth and that I do something cool so they naturally want to know. But then the conversation turns to the most likely explanation being that Daniel and Fabien targeted each other and there was some sort of coin flip that decided the outcome (  ) and now he has to claim if he has a fighting chance. Once he gets the majority votes, he knows the best thing to do is cut their losses and free the kill back up, so he's even lynching himself. Occam's Razor: Fabien is scum. And yet, still my hero.  

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom, fwom fwom fwom fwom*

[Fabien Bellamy]

I can't believe the irony.

I don't want to defend myself because I want to be lynched, yet if you lynch me thinking I'm Scum you will do the wrong moves tonight and waste more time. So I have to work to make sure you lynch me thinking I'm the Town Vig.

First things first. I could have forced the lynch at any time by editing all my posts today. I won't do it, because 1) forcing my lynch down your throat doesn't feel like a Townie thing to do; and 2) in a recent game I was rather pissed-off when a Scum used this tactic to gain a major advantage. One shouldn't be rewarded for purposefully breaking a game rule.

Anyway, on to other things...

 

 

Adding to this, there seem to be sub-teams forming... We already know about Aiden and Vincent, now Peter is joining them. Andrew and Emmett seem to agree a lot. Trenton, hasn't said much in the game so far. Robin

 

5 hours ago, Emmett Ware said:

As for blocking Vincent and Fabien for the rest of the game, at this point, what else do we have to do? Are there such good block targets that we need to kill either of them to free up the spot? I don't see it.

The problem is that, if you block me you will also have to deal with Peter, Aiden and Vincent. Too many suspects, too few blockers.

5 hours ago, Andrew Laurent said:

Sure, we could just block Vincent and Fabien the rest of the game while voting one person at a time out. But that doesn't let us test Peter, Robin, Aiden, Trenton via blocks at all.

That too.

 

3 hours ago, Peter Lyon said:

If we don't lynch Fabien and the scum kill off a blocker tonight, then we have to lynch one of them tomorrow unless we have new/better information.  That's possible, but we could be back to where we are today with less ability to address the situation.

If you don't lynch me, the Scum is likely to kill off a blocker, especially if Town decides to block the "wrong" players, those who weren't already blocked last night. There's no absolute guarantee that Vincent or Peter are the Scum killer, but chances are good. Moreover, if you don't lynch me, you will have to deal with "who is the killer now" if you're lucky enough to lynch the right Scum.

 

2 hours ago, Emmett Ware said:

I kind of don't. I said I had some doubts earlier and nothing has assuaged those, especially his over-the-top cooperation with it. What do the scum have to gain by cooperating? If he's a scum killer, we probably would have a vig and do we even have a hint of that? If so, they could kill him anyway, I assume. 

Only the Scum can kill me at night, but they probably won't at this point. I doubt there's another Townie with a kill action, unless we have an Inventor around.

 

2 hours ago, Andrew Laurent said:

If we had a vig, he could have easily been one of the early losses - Remi, Michael, or Jean.

I took after Daniel and posted a clue to my role in plain view... But it was probably around Day 3 so useless in this context.

 

2 hours ago, Trenton Monette said:

I think lynching Fabian would be be the best plan. Simply because if we hold off for today it gives the scum an extra night to make a kill. Fabian hasn't offered much of a defence. If Fabian is the scum killer does the scum kill pass on to another scum? And if so are we in a situation like Pirates and Forest Mafia where the scum can get two night actions? Either way I think Fabian is the best plan for tonight. 

Listen to the man.

 

2 hours ago, Emmett Ware said:

It wouldn't surprise me. Or they have a pool of actions and can take turns doing things, which means that a lot of our results are useless. I really hope that isn't the case or we're doomed.

If it was the case, Scum Fabien wouldn't have needed a strong-arm kill to take care of Daniel. I knew I would be blocked, just send the action to my Scum chum. No, I'm pretty sure Scum would have used this strategy to clear Vincent and/or me already, but they didn't. And Scum Fabien went and killed while Vincent was blocked, only to tell everyone that he did it. Had I wanted to clear myself and/or Vincent of suspicion, I would have killed and shut my mouth about it.

 

1 hour ago, Aiden Leon said:

In which case, maybe we should focus on someone else if Fabien is gonna get yeeted anyway by scum if he is town?

I'm never gonna get yeeted by Scum, because you all think I'm Scum. As long as I'm alive you're going to focus on me and use up actions to keep me under control.

 

1 hour ago, Aiden Leon said:

Which is why I wouldn't use it even if I heavily read the person being lynched as town. If he was lynched though, I would have pardoned Vincent just to piss of Daniel. That would've been awesome. At least it would be for five seconds before Daniel shit the bed and strangled me with the soiled sheets.

 

14 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

The Scum Red replies are back!

This worries me. I thought if anyone could see through the layers of BS I sense in Fabien's responses, it would be you. Everything Fabien has responded with gives me more reason to suspect him.

In your case, the major reason to suspect me is obviously that you're the next best lynch candidate. You shouldn't talk, be silent and let us question you. (I'm being sarcastic, okay? )

I know this game has exhausted you, but the air is clearer today. There are still some long posts but if you read them, there's more coherence discussion occurring today than ever before in this game.

Here's why I'm not buying Fabien's answers:

• Occam's Razor: Fabien was blocked on Night Three and there was no kill. Later, he admits to being a killer. This used to be an automatic lynch in the "old days."

Listen to the old timer, he's right.

• Metagaming the host: There was no vig in Pirates II (the inventor could make a gun or knife or some killy thing). Bob limited PMs because he felt the scum had a hard time in Pirates II. Do you think he'd add a vig when he thought the town might be over-powered in Pirates II? He did reduce the number of town roles, so maybe. I could go either way with this and it's metagaming, but still...

Metagaming the host led us to lynching Alex.

• Evolving story: Fabien claims to be the vig, roughly 44 hours ago. 18 hours ago he updated that claim with limitations. "I have limited kills." "I can't kill two nights in a row." 

Those were my main two posts today. I never expected anyone to ask me to kill again.

• Must be lynched: Andrew's brain vomit ramblings (I do it too, no offense) are right about one thing. It seems he wants to free up the other scum (1 or 2?) to kill. Fabien claims that lynching him is the only way to prove his claim. Why, exactly? If we block him again and there's a kill...then...that would confirm it?

I guess so, but I wouldn't let you block me but release the other Scum suspects. That would be crazy.

• Acting alone: Strongarm killing Daniel was a blessing to this game and I will be forever grateful. But he made the decision unilaterally. There is enough coordination behind the scenes that I feel he should've at least floated the idea to someone. This may be a super weak point, but it was a thought and I can't have a thought without typing it out, so... 

I trusted exactly as many people with my role as you did: zero. Well, until last night when you decided to share with Aiden for... reasons.

• Contradictory thoughts: Thinks the scum will withhold their kill to implicate innocent Townies who are blocked, yet has the ability to kill. His original theory depends upon there not being another killer in the game. So, why would he float this idea if he has the ability to kill?

Because the Vig won't come up with theories that suggest there is a Vig. First rule of survival. I was well placed myself to tell if a kill was Scum or Town anyway.

Hopefully, bullets will make my wall of text easier to read. Every time I go back and read Fabien's claim I waiver over why he would claim if he was scum. Why wouldn't he sit there and let day after day go by with him being blocked and the town not knowing why there aren't kills.

I told already. Because Town would play on with false theories about who can or cannot be Scum. I messed up and I will come clean about it.

I think Andrew's point about freeing up the other scummo to kill might be correct. Let's look at potential Day Six with Fabien and I blocked overnight. There's no kill again. Oh well, then if Fabien is the vig, Vincent must be the scum killer! Daniel was right all along! I get lynched. I flip Town. Fabien is lynched anyway on Day Seven. But, then why not take that risk and potentially get another townie lynched in the mean time... ?  I don't know. Maybe because he assumes we'd be forced to claim anyway at some point and that's all he's got. If he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth, so why not jump out with his claim?

I'm not sure I follow you here. I must be too tired.

 

[Vincent Denis]

21 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said:

I took after Daniel and posted a clue to my role in plain view... But it was probably around Day 3 so useless in this context

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom*

How is it useless now? I think the significance of doing that is the earlier you do it, the less likely it is that you are making it up to fit circumstances. Please find it. This could be a point in your favor.

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom*

[Fabien Bellamy]

Let's see what the options are.

I'm Scum, you lynch me. Where will my kill go?

• Vincent? He's going out of his way to justify why I'm Trooly Scum. The motive could be that he wants Town to move the Block targets. Because if he inherits the Scum kill, he will still be blocked and there won't be a Scum kill tonight. Then he's next in line for the lynch.
• Peter? He's also being blocked, so if he's Scum he needs Town to release him. Even if I'm lynched, the kill won't be of use with the current Town strategy. He also didn't seem to have any doubt that I was Scum. 
• Fred? I don't think we heard much from him today. He's not in any danger of being blocked though.
• Aiden? He's in a good position to profit if he's Scum. A new blocker strategy wouldn't help him, yet he voted Andrew first.
• Emmett and Andrew? They're the more moderate players, willing to consider I'm not Scum. Not the way they should be playing if they were waiting for the kill action. On the other hand, I doubt either of then would be blocked tonight.
• Robin? Less vocal today, but leaning on "Scum Fabien" side like Vincent and Peter.
• Trenton... Who?

 

6 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

How is it useless now? I think the significance of doing that is the earlier you do it, the less likely it is that you are making it up to fit circumstances. Please find it. This could be a point in your favor. 

Andrew mentioned that perhaps the real Town Vig was killed early on. If Scum knew it, they could have used the knowledge to prepare a Town Vig claim. But claiming Vig on Day 3 doesn't help as Remi, Michael, Jean were already dead.

[Aiden Leon]

Fabien, you killed last night so you can't kill tonight correct?

[Fabien Bellamy]

On 4/18/2020 at 4:20 PM, Fabien Bellamy said:

Unless he's a Strongman. Same goes for Robin. 

I was the first to mention a Strong role in this game.

On 4/19/2020 at 2:46 PM, Fabien Bellamy said:

Not all claims can be easily proven. Vincent is giving us a perfect example. Doesn't do anything when he's tracked, yet claims a role. Unless one is blocker or tracker, there's not much to be done to validate a claim.

In reply to Peter discussing claims.

Just now, Aiden Leon said:

Fabien, you killed last night so you can't kill tonight correct?

Yes.

[Vincent Denis]

10 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said:

In reply to Peter discussing claims.

*Fwom fwom*

Which was after I posted this:

On 4/18/2020 at 11:32 PM, Vincent Denis said:

If we have three claimed blockers, they should coordinate after sundown to block the three who haven't claimed: Peter, Fabien, Trenton. 

So, it only proves that you were getting a claim ready.

27 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said:

• Vincent? He's going out of his way to justify why I'm Trooly Scum. The motive could be that he wants Town to move the Block targets. Because if he inherits the Scum kill, he will still be blocked and there won't be a Scum kill tonight. Then he's next in line for the lynch.

Can I start by saying it's really nice to be coherently accused of something. Thank you again. Let me go on the record as saying, I do not expect not to be blocked, nor do I want to not be blocked. I don't believe anything I've said has been contrary to that idea.

29 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said:

• Robin? Less vocal today, but leaning on "Scum Fabien" side like Vincent and Peter.

Although it happened after your claim, if you were looking for scum to slip up, what did you think of this post?

On 4/26/2020 at 11:39 PM, Robin Tremblay said:

Who knows, maybe he isn't just a vig, maybe he is a serial killer.

I may be wrong about you, Fabien. I was certainly wrong about Justin. I just find your claim hard to believe.

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom, fwom fwom fwom fwom*

[Fabien Bellamy]

38 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

*Fwom fwom*

Which was after I posted this:

So, it only proves that you were getting a claim ready.

Why do I even bother. Yes, I posted that after a million other posts that said everything and their contrary. You can make them say anything.

That said, if I was Scum preparing to claim Vig, consider that Vig is risky claim with the significant risk of a counter-claim. It meant that I was pretty sure Town wouldn't catch me lying. Why then did I fight so much with Daniel instead of claiming then and there? Or at least in PM? Why would a Scum with a perfect claim not use it to infiltrate Town?

Can I start by saying it's really nice to be coherently accused of something. Thank you again. Let me go on the record as saying, I do not expect not to be blocked, nor do I want to not be blocked. I don't believe anything I've said has been contrary to that idea.

The contrary would have been surprising.

Although it happened after your claim, if you were looking for scum to slip up, what did you think of this post?

I don't see what's wrong with it?

I may be wrong about you, Fabien. I was certainly wrong about Justin. I just find your claim hard to believe.

That's okay, you're not one of the blockers.

 

[Bob]

Vote Count:
Andrew Laurent - 1 (Aiden Leon)
Fabien Bellamy - 5 (Peter Lyon, Robin Tremblay, Fred Dumont, Trenton Monette, Fabien Bellamy)

About 7 hours remain in this day. Five votes are required to lynch.

[Fabien Bellamy]

What are you waiting for, you non-voters? I could still un-lynch myself right before the day ends.

[Fabien Bellamy]

Vincent? I know you're around. You argued for days on end that I had to be Scum, but you're not going to secure the lynch? Come on, you want to do it!

[Vincent Denis]

14 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said:

Vincent? I know you're around. You argued for days on end that I had to be Scum, but you're not going to secure the lynch? Come on, you want to do it!

*Fwom fwomma fwom fwom*

Quit telling me what to do like I'm some sort of forum inbred jerk!

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom, fwom fwom fwom fwom*

[Fabien Bellamy]

One last trumpet solo...

Taratatatatatatatatata

I'm not going to unlynch myself. Town needs validated information more than they need a kill action.

[Aiden Leon]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vengeful_(role)

Hmmmmm. If I voted for you you might unvote and turn my seal into a hammer so f*ck that. 

[Vincent Denis]

8 minutes ago, Aiden Leon said:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vengeful_(role)

Hmmmmm. If I voted for you you might unvote and turn my seal into a hammer so f*ck that. 

Ah, maybe. Good thinking. Maybe that's why he wants to be lynched so badly. So, if that's a possibility, I will take the bullet.

Vote: Fabien Bellamy

The role says it can be either. The term "Venge Vanillaizer" is also interestingly used. That would also give him reason to want us to hammer him. I'll leave my vote here and go PM the host. If Fabien un-votes himself at the last minute, that will be very telling...

*Fwomma fwomma fwom fwomma fwom fwom fwom, fwomma fwom, fwomma fwom*  Outrun my gun! *Fwomma fwomma fwom fwomma fwom fwom fwom*

[Andrew Laurent]

Fabien, I don't want to lynch you. I've already said that. I think we'd be better off keeping you alive and blocked. Right now you and Emmett are the two people I most want to keep alive, but for opposite reasons Fred is a close 3rd - given no kill night 3, I'm not convinced that there is a scum in our "town block"