WA AB Class Locomotive and train - LDD

[dr_spock]

Here is a way Mugen did a triple wheel bogie:

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=6227752

[ummester]

Ah, those little minifig necklace things - why didn't I think of that :D

The loco is fully redesigned now and I have designed the sheep stock car (which was a pain to work out how to get the sides upside down in LDD). Every-time I see a new idea, like that above, I want to try it out and see if it works any better though.

Edit - on second thoughts - I don't like the idea of the middle wheel in the truck being kind of free floating.

Edited February 13, 2015 by ummester

[ummester]

I've been researching the fine MOCing in these pages and seeing what I could improve. Some pics of the re-touched loco and the sheep car.

Thanks to Steinkopf for leading me to the reference pics. The build is starting to take a distinctly outback freight train feel now, I need to design an Ozzie Guardsvan to complete it.

If anyone can spot any areas that need more improvement let me know.

Edited February 13, 2015 by ummester

[LoneBrickerSG]

Here is a way Mugen did a triple wheel bogie:

http://www.brickshel...y.cgi?i=6227752

Those look quick and simple, but I think I would have concerns about the middle wheel getting its rims caught on things.

If anyone can spot any areas that need more improvement let me know.

I guess I would suggest challenging yourself and see if you can make room for working headlights.

The loco looks pretty cool as-is, though.

Edited February 13, 2015 by LoneBrickerSG

[zephyr1934]

That is evolving nicely and quickly too. One suggestion with the middle wheels on the trucks- pull the traction band off of them to get a mm or 2 of extra clearance.

[gololo]

Any chances you would be sharing your LXF files?

[ummester]

I like to complete the builds first, to test for functionality and structural integrity, then change the LXF files as needed.

If you want certain parts - like the truck design - to test yourself, I'll send you them.

[gololo]

Well, I would really appreciate it if you shared the files for the containers and the gondola wagon carrying them, and also the sheep car.

I am back to Lego after almost 20 years of absence and I'm a complete noob at building techniques. I've been experimenting with LDD to develop a knowledge, but I'm still far away from being able to make a complete design by myself

Edited February 14, 2015 by gololo

[ummester]

The gondola isn't my design, it was zephyr's. I have replicated it in LDD and can give you that file if you want - but it's a really simple build.

I have changed the flat cars/shipping container cars a few times - you can have a look at what I have tried in the previous versions of them.

I don't know how well the shipping containers and sheep car are going to work until I try them - they are very much in the untested design stage.

You should check out this thread http://www.eurobrick...25#entry1884487 - search for a TLG set number in it, most of them come up. Then you can download and pull apart the official builds in LDD.

Edited February 15, 2015 by ummester

[gololo]

Thx for your tips. I think i'm not only "green" in terms of building methods but also in terms of proficiency with the LDD software. I was copying the containers as an exercise, and I cannot make the doors close >_<!!!! I'll keep trying, haha. When I'm done with the doors, I'll try to guess how the sides were built =]

Cheer,

Gololo

[ummester]

Thx for your tips. I think i'm not only "green" in terms of building methods but also in terms of proficiency with the LDD software. I was copying the containers as an exercise, and I cannot make the doors close >_<!!!! I'll keep trying, haha. When I'm done with the doors, I'll try to guess how the sides were built =]

Cheer,

Gololo

I just went to message you the LFX file for a container and couldn't work out out to attach it? I forgot my password for my media share site so dont know how else to upload files. Stupid internet is getting too complicated The complete model wont show you how to build them in LDD. It requires the doors being positioned in exactly the right place which LDD wont let you do when you try and slide the hinges into the modified plates - so you 'trick' LDD by building them connected to something that is upside down, delete the upside down placeholder and attach them to the container. I'm sure the doors will work in real bricks - they are just tricky to assemble in LDD.

That is evolving nicely and quickly too. One suggestion with the middle wheels on the trucks- pull the traction band off of them to get a mm or 2 of extra clearance.

You mean that little clear bit? only pull it off the center wheel? Is this to create less friction? I'm about to try out some 3 wheel truck designs with 60051 parts.

[ummester]

OK - trial successful, the 3rd wheel works.

However, the motor generally wont take off until speed setting 2 with the middle wheel. I have taken the traction band off the 2 middle wheels and it tries to take off at speed one - it like jolts a bit but cant actually get rolling until speed 2. Without the middle wheels the motor starts rolling (albeit slowly) at speed 1.

Also, it pulls better than it pushes - if that makes sense. I have it set up with the battery over the motor - as if it is the back of a locomotive - though it moves and corners better if the motor is the front truck of the locomotive. I guess this has been noticed before? Is it generally better to design a locomotive around having the motor at the front - or the most forward truck in terms of direction, if possible?

EDIT - putting the battery pack in the middle of the plate (not over the motor) and having the motor as the forward truck takes off in speed 1. Don't quite understand why?

Edited February 16, 2015 by ummester

[Steinkopf]

I like the progress you have made so far, the sheep van looks challenging but I think you have done a great job in capturing the look of it, I can't wait to see what the rest of the train looks like. With the battery placement it can be a bit tricky, I had the same issues with train weights in my 9v Trains, I think it's a matter of having a relatively balanced load rather than placing more weight above the motor to increase adhesion. I found I was getting better results with one weight instead of two in my tender drive locomotives, this could be inpart that if you apply too much downward pressure that it creates its own issues with gaining traction and engine torque.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Steinkopf

[ummester]

I'm waiting on some BL orders. When they arrive, I should be able to set up the working parts of both loco trucks. Is it preferable to pull the traction bands off all wheels that aren't in the motor - so 8 wheels on the loco with no traction band and only 4 with?

[jtlan]

I'm waiting on some BL orders. When they arrive, I should be able to set up the working parts of both loco trucks. Is it preferable to pull the traction bands off all wheels that aren't in the motor - so 8 wheels on the loco with no traction band and only 4 with?

That would be the 2nd-best thing; the first would be two motors, but you'd need to find someplace to hide a polarity switch if you did that.

I'm surprised moving the weight back a bit helps, but I don't know the specifics of your setup. It also makes sense that having the motor as the first truck performs better.

[codefox421]

That would be the 2nd-best thing; the first would be two motors, but you'd need to find someplace to hide a polarity switch if you did that.

Or open up the motor assembly (use a T6 bit) and flip the polarity by re-soldering the motor leads.

[jtlan]

Or open up the motor assembly (use a T6 bit) and flip the polarity by re-soldering the motor leads.

The PF motors use screws? That's much more convenient for maintenance...

Edited February 18, 2015 by jtlan

[ummester]

I plan to put a video up but I'll see if I can explain this properly.

When trucks have 3 sets of wheels (doesn't matter if they have the friction bands taken off the wheels with a technic join, or if you line up 3 standard wheels on the metal axle) they do not corner as well as trucks with 2 close together or 2 spread apart.

The 6 wheel trucks work and the train can get (almost) as much speed as 4 wheel trucks but they do not take off as easily on corners. I've tried all types of 6 wheel truck solutions and in all of them the middle wheel spins less consistently than the outer 2 but any 2 wheels close together spin fine.

I think it's to do with the curve of the LEGO track, it's too tight or something to work properly with 3 standard wheel trucks. I guess the larger wheels on steam locomotives sit far enough apart not to run into the same issue.

Is the curve on all LEGO corners the same, 9V, old track in pieces etc? Is there any alternative with a different curvature?

[jtlan]

I plan to put a video up but I'll see if I can explain this properly.

When trucks have 3 sets of wheels (doesn't matter if they have the friction bands taken off the wheels with a technic join, or if you line up 3 standard wheels on the metal axle) they do not corner as well as trucks with 2 close together or 2 spread apart.

The 6 wheel trucks work and the train can get (almost) as much speed as 4 wheel trucks but they do not take off as easily on corners. I've tried all types of 6 wheel truck solutions and in all of them the middle wheel spins less consistently than the outer 2 but any 2 wheels close together spin fine.

I think it's to do with the curve of the LEGO track, it's too tight or something to work properly with 3 standard wheel trucks. I guess the larger wheels on steam locomotives sit far enough apart not to run into the same issue.

Is the curve on all LEGO corners the same, 9V, old track in pieces etc? Is there any alternative with a different curvature?

Normally having three wheelsets side by side rigidly will cause more friction. For steam locomotives usually the center pair of wheels is "blind" (no flanges), which prevents this problem.

To counter the problem, you can either use a "blind" center wheel (like this, as seen in dr_spock's post), or build a three-axle bogie with a sliding center axle, which probably requires the use of the design shown in Railbricks #6.

ME models makes wider radius curves, but I don't know if they're in general production yet.

[ummester]

Normally having three wheelsets side by side rigidly will cause more friction. For steam locomotives usually the center pair of wheels is "blind" (no flanges), which prevents this problem.

To counter the problem, you can either use a "blind" center wheel (like this, as seen in dr_spock's post), or build a three-axle bogie with a sliding center axle, which probably requires the use of the design shown in Railbricks #6.

ME models makes wider radius curves, but I don't know if they're in general production yet.

The blind solution just doesn't sit well with me. It looks aesthetically different and it would always annoy me in the back of my head - knowing that the third wheel is a genuine metaphorical third wheel :D

I guess I could try and cut the flanges off 4 LEGO wheels - at least they would look aesthetically the same whilst still being that third wheel.

I didn't realise the steamers had blind middle wheels - does it look funny when the wheel sits wider than the track around corners?

[detjensrobert]

The overhang is so small, you would hardy notice it, if you did at all.

.

[ummester]

The overhang is so small, you would hardy notice it, if you did at all.

.

I want to design a steamer also - but it's proving costly ATM to get the freight train finished.

Are stores charging more on Bricklink this year than last year or something?

[ummester]

I've ordered enough to upgrade the Passenger train and complete the Freight Locomotive, 2 Gondolas, 2 Flat Container cars & 1 Tanker car.

I have designed the following short cars, and redesigned the sheep stock car for the complete train but won't be adding them until later in the year, as I also wanted to buy a second motor, battery pack & IR receiver.

Guardsvan similar to reference picks

An Ozzie looking hopper

Sheepcar refined

[zephyr1934]

The cars look great

[jamesed_1971]

You have done great, the locomotive and rolling stock look great