New ABS or Process for (Technic) Parts?

[Jim]

When building the 42009 Crane I have come across some parts, which have a different structure than usual. They seem to have a matt look-and-feel to them. This is not the first time I noticed it. When building the Volvo I had the same experience with a certain part (not sure which part anymore). Here are two examples:

(click for hi res)

Old shiny version on the left, new matt version on the right

The grey color is also noticably different in both versions.

Old shiny version on the right, new matt version on the left

Any idea what has changed in the process or material used? And why?

[Balrog]

I think the connector perpendicular in 2L was always matt and the 3L version smooth and shiny.

[Jim]

I think the connector perpendicular in 2L was always matt and the 3L version smooth and shiny.

It's the first time I noticed it, so I am not sure about your statement. But you could be completely right. Anyone near their Technic collection to take a look?

The connecting engine rod has defintely changed! Looking at the picture above, even the mold has changed.

http://www.bricklink...Item.asp?P=2852

[Balrog]

It's the first time I noticed it, so I am not sure about your statement. But you could be completely right. Anyone near their Technic collection to take a look?

The connecting engine rod has defintely changed! Looking at the picture above, even the mold has changed.

http://www.bricklink...Item.asp?P=2852

I didn't notice it specifically for the engine rod, but now that you say it, it was a bit odd.

For the connectors perpendicular, I realized this already when I got 8070. I wondered why the longer ones are shiny and the shorter one are matt, but didn't think too much about it. I am not sure about earlier versions, but if I remember correctly, the 2L were always matt and the 3L always shiny.

[Jim]

I didn't notice it specifically for the engine rod, but now that you say it, it was a bit odd.

For the connectors perpendicular, I realized this already when I got 8070. I wondered why the longer ones are shiny and the shorter one are matt, but didn't think too much about it. I am not sure about earlier versions, but if I remember correctly, the 2L were always matt and the 3L always shiny.

Ahhh okay. Strange that I have never noticed this before

I was triggered by another black part I used recently in a new model (I guess it was the Volvo). I am sure this part suddenly had a matt finish as well. I will try to look it up.

[sheo]

What's important, the glossy variations of parts , and seem to have thicker walls around axle holes and don't crack so easily as the matt variations.

[jantjeuh]

Is the Design ID still the same for the engine rod, Jim?

[Jim]

Is the Design ID still the same for the engine rod, Jim?

I would have to look in the instructions (right?). According to Bricklink, it's the same part.

[Zerobricks]

Maybe the once again changed plastic supplier?

[DrJB]

The parts have not changed. I believe the main reason might be because the parts are sourced from different countries, and the molds from those locations are NOT identical. There are many parts that come in many 'versions'. The first time I noticed that was last August 2013 with part 48989, which is fairly recent. I started a similar thread back then, but only got one answer ...

http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=86124

Edited September 3, 2014 by DrJB

[jantjeuh]

I would have to look in the instructions (right?). According to Bricklink, it's the same part.

Instructions list Element IDs, which are basically a unique number for a part, colour combination. Design ID designates the mold (almost always), and is usually printed on the part itself (so is the Element ID, but the Element ID is a longer number).

Edited September 3, 2014 by jantjeuh

[JDC]

There is a significant mold finish time difference between a matte finish, and a shiny one. Matte finish would allow them to get a mold to the production floor faster.

[sheo]

Btw, according to lego.com, engine rod in LBG has changed its Element ID from 4211379 to 6000018. It could reflect the change of mold.

[Blakbird]

I also noticed the change in finish on the engine connecting rods some time ago. I didn't think too much about it, but they are definately different.

For the angle connectors, I agree with the others that the 2L has always been matte and the 3L has always been gloss. Why? Good question. With Technic parts in particular, you'll find there are quite a few different kinds of plastics used, not just the same old ABS. For example, a 1x8 Technic brick is not the same material as a regular 1x8 brick. It is a more rigid and brittle formulation to compensate for the material lost to holes. This is really noticeable in the half width liftarms which are the stiffest kind of plastic used in LEGO. They make a much different sound when dropped on the floor! The differences in formulation can also be seen easily in pins. For example, the new 11214 pin is very soft to make it deformable and easy to use the axle end. In general, any pin connector with an axle end is softer than a regular pin because the axle must compress a bit when inserted into a slot. Pins can be more rigid because they have slots to help them deform. The brand new 15100 connector pin is particularly stiff and quite difficult to put into a hole.

All of this is my way of saying that I wouldn't be surprised if the 2L and 3L connectors are actually a different material and that accounts for the different finish. My LEGO muscle memory tells me that the 3L is stiffer. In fact my LEGO muscle memory also tells me that the old shiny engine connecting rods were hard and the new ones are soft. Try dropping each on a table and see if they sound different.

[Balrog]

Try dropping each on a table and see if they sound different.

And probably bounce different.

[Blakbird]

And probably bounce different.

Yes! The ability of a dropped part to defy the laws of Conservation of Energy and arrive at a location impossibly far from where it was dropped is truly remarkable. Another good reason not to build on a trampoline.

[zweihander]

Another good reason not to build on a trampoline.

Damn, I just ordered one from bricklink...

[SNIPE]

The 1L axle with ball on the end is also in matt or shiny looking at my collection.

[keroro]

the 20 4211379 is out of production (notice from a lego pick a brick order).

I think it's a new layout of matrix.

[Paul Boratko]

Lego definitely uses different types of ABS plastics for different types of parts...

The reason why I know this is that I have tried to color dye white and LBG parts by heating them up in very hot water and some parts took the dye perfectly while others would not... Lego seems to use different hardnesses of ABS with certain parts...

If anyone wants to make black axle pins, you can easily make them using black color dye.. However they will not have friction.. And blue ones will not take the dye... And LBG bushings only turn purple when trying to dye them... And if you go too hot, you'll warp the parts...

[CP5670]

They do occasionally change the material as part of a piece revision. I can think of several cases like that over the years. It is usually done to make the piece stronger and less prone to breaking. Some other pieces are the 8t, 16t and 24t gears, which all used to be glossy at various times in the past but are now softer and more malleable, with a matte texture. The newer ones don't look as nice but work better in practice. The old 16t gears are prone to shaving a fine powder off each other when running at high speeds, which is not a problem with the modern ones.

[Zerobricks]

Its quite interesting how much planning goes into parts. How do you think they regulate plastic stiffness? Do they use softeners?

[weavil]

Matt vs shinny was discussed some time ago (1 or 2 years ago). I had found (for the post) that a matt finish is from a lower temp and shinny is from higher temps. Also the cooling time differs as well and will cause a micro amount of shrinkage for shinny parts, hence shinny parts have a tighter fit.

[DrJB]

The other main difference is that the matte finish is likely less prone to scratches than the smooth finish, or at least, they may not show easily.

[Richard Dower]

I have also seen color variations in beams....such a a yellow 1x15 liftarm will be several differnet shades of yellow. I have also seen black axel in 4L and 6L that are shinny or flat matt.

There are deffo alot of variations or colors and mould types, you will notice it more if you buy old sets from say 2009 downwards and compare the parts to sets release after 2012.