Looking for IP Enthusiasts: Exploring Current Patent & Design Regulations Together

[aFrInati0n]

Hello community,

I lately got attracted by the topic of how the current situation of patents and designs is working within the fields of Intellectual Property (IP). I would be curious to find out more details about the current situation and what may be considered applying. I can imagine finding more details of how the situation may be understood from the regulative site may help (me) for a better understanding & also I would hope it may allow a more precice communication as an outcome.

Would somebody else be interested in investing some time / efforts together to allow to us to shed some more light on this topic?

I can only state I am total newbie in the field of IP - so I do know possible little to nothing in detail & would be curious for anybody helping me out to understand the situation better. 

Kind regards.

[Sven J]

Well, this might be a starting point, but you'll need pleeeeeenty of time...

https://nrwe.justiz.nrw.de/lgs/duesseldorf/lg_duesseldorf/j2025/14c_O_203_23_Urteil_20250703.html

[aFrInati0n]

I would just wish our German courts would have some better digital formats.. this reminded me fastly why people may not want to read up things closer lol.. 

[Sven J]

2 minutes ago, aFrInati0n said:

this reminded me fastly why people may not want to read up things closer lol.. 

Maybe this is exactly the reason WHY they have no better digital formats?

[aFrInati0n]

Could also be true..  The obfuscations make it at least not easier to get it together in one own's head..

Quote

Plaintiff 1 takes the view that the defendant infringes the plaintiff’s designs 1) through 45) with the contested products 1) through 45), respectively.

Would be wonderful if they could have at least handed the exaxt IDs of the products they are speaking about, like they do for every other reference... *sigh

[Sven J]

8 minutes ago, aFrInati0n said:

Would be wonderful if they could have at least handed the exaxt IDs of the products they are speaking about, like they do for every other reference... *sigh

They are listed with images in the appendix.
However, since this court desision, some of the parts (e.g. the brackets) have been challenged by other companies on EU level.

Edited yesterday at 10:57 AM by Sven J

[aFrInati0n]

I can see the pictures - but oh boy if the plaintiff can not even name their products. It is somehow weak that in such document not even the EUIPO of the claimed designs are listed (aain if I have not overlooked those the two times I scrolled through to find listings like such..

As such documents are hard to read, isn't the current / daily status of the EUIPO then still a better one to check for currently applicable designs? As I would believe any of such court rulings may result in status changes for the items listed in the EUIPO, wouldn't it?

[Sven J]

1 minute ago, aFrInati0n said:

As such documents are hard to read, isn't the current / daily status of the EUIPO then still a better one to check for currently applicable designs?

Yes, I think so.
But the court ruling explains (long-windedly and hard to read, I agree) which aspects have to be considered in judging the validity of 3D IP registrations.

[aFrInati0n]

I just was in the hunt for one regulation, but unfortunately:

Quote

EUR-Lex is temporarily not fully available. You can however access recent OJs. In addition, you can consult EU law here.

 Seems the EU is not considering hosting any EU law related documents as critical infrastructure if they need to state "whoopsie, currently we can't serve all"..

[danth]

Hmm. Planning our own alt brick brand? I'm all for it. We can even call it EuroBricks. Just make sure we make Space sets...and no stickers!

[aFrInati0n]

Haha no, I just would like to get some more information myself for what the situation might be right now & possibly linking sources for others to easily have them gathered at one place.

As Sven posted this wonderful German court ruling, it may have helped me to get the highest of all motivation for that topic alrady...  

[Yperio_Bricks]

8 minutes ago, danth said:

Hmm. Planning our own alt brick brand? I'm all for it. We can even call it EuroBricks. Just make sure we make Space sets...and no stickers!

Should be doable. Just buy Gobricks and license Kiddiz minifigs. Then pay moc designers and create the packaging artwork, etc. Just the money needed before even one set is sold... 

[aFrInati0n]

One example would be the PDF of 2002:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32002R0006 "COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 6/2002 of 12 December 2001 on Community designs":

Quote

Article 8

Designs dictated by their technical function and designs of interconnections

1. A Community design shall not subsist in features of appearance of a product which are solely dictated by its technical function.
2. A Community design shall not subsist in features of appearance of a product which must necessarily be reproduced in their exact form and dimensions in order to permit the product in which the design is incorporated or to which it is applied to be mechanically connected to or placed in, around or against another product so that either product may perform its function.
3. Notwithstanding paragraph 2, a Community design shall under the conditions set out in Articles 5 and 6 subsist in a design serving the purpose of allowing the multiple assembly or connection of mutually interchangeable products within a modular system.

I understand Article 8 as the description of what can't be registered as designs for parts which have an interconnecting system.

Seems 6/2002 is no longer in force and got superseeded with...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L_202600715 "REGULATION (EU) 2026/715 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 11 March 2026 on European Union designs"

 

*edit: oh boy, they changed the format from 2 columns to only 1 - much better to read and also to copy from... 

[Slegengr]

7 hours ago, aFrInati0n said:

Hello community,

I lately got attracted by the topic of how the current situation of patents and designs is working within the fields of Intellectual Property (IP). I would be curious to find out more details about the current situation and what may be considered applying. I can imagine finding more details of how the situation may be understood from the regulative site may help (me) for a better understanding & also I would hope it may allow a more precice communication as an outcome.

Would somebody else be interested in investing some time / efforts together to allow to us to shed some more light on this topic?

I can only state I am total newbie in the field of IP - so I do know possible little to nothing in detail & would be curious for anybody helping me out to understand the situation better. 

Kind regards.

I'm quite interested in the topic, but do not have the legal experience nor time to help out right now.  The main thing I think is to try to understand the principles that go into IP laws instead of just strictly looking at the current laws to understand what is likely the general opinion of most on what they find applicable or preferable in terms of copying.  Though fact can be drawn around the precise laws, it requires a level of legal understanding that likely only lawyers have.  When it comes to a community like EuroBricks, fact and opinion or preference seem quite difficult to strictly separate, as we discussed on the other thread.  It would be nice if the baselines could always be set on fact alone, but I think this is quite difficult in a hobby open to all sorts of cultures and backgrounds.  Businesses get legislation, hobby communities get vibes.

I'll be following along to see if there is an easier way to know more about IP structure (nationally and internationally).

5 hours ago, Sven J said:

Well, this might be a starting point, but you'll need pleeeeeenty of time...

https://nrwe.justiz.nrw.de/lgs/duesseldorf/lg_duesseldorf/j2025/14c_O_203_23_Urteil_20250703.html

Oof!  This is what makes in-depth IP discussion difficult in an open hobby community.  Thanks for sharing, your comment gave me a laugh!  I work as an engineer at reasonably deep levels of technicality, but would still find this legal document very overbearing to understand fully.  (...not to mention I cannot read German and must rely on translation...)

1 minute ago, danth said:

Hmm. Planning our own alt brick brand? I'm all for it. We can even call it EuroBricks. Just make sure we make Space sets...and no stickers!

What a fun idea!  I'd want more than Space for sure, but Space is certainly included in my interests.  Though I understand the purpose of some stickers and the idea that some children enjoy stickers like the random extras included with some sets to be placed by choice, I am a strong supporter of as many prints as possible and think it inexcusable that the premium market-leading brand (LEGO) still so severely minimizes the use of prints, in my opinion.

Just now, Yperio_Bricks said:

Should be doable. Just buy Gobricks and license Kiddiz minifigs. Then pay moc designers and create the packaging artwork, etc. Just the money needed before even one set is sold... 

Though I have not seriously entertained these thoughts yet, I am already countering LEGO's current market strategies that oppose my preferences by just designing my own sets for my nephews in the themes I like.  It really is a serious commitment of time and effort though in designing structurally-sound playsets and accurate instructions!  Without doing it primarily for fun as I do, it would take a lot of compensation to make it worthwhile to do for others beyond my personal interests.  I still use LEGO parts only thus far, but that is due to my already large collection and familiarity with BrickLink for individual part needs.  Other brands, especially Gobricks, are on my list to research more after these discussions.

 

I still think an open community working together for the good of all interests would be the best solution possible, but geographic and economic constraints make this essentially impossible in the consideration of the making of parts and sets.  We just need a benevolent benefactor to donate our community some CAD design software, mold-making tooling, plastic injection machinery, and sources of the best plastics!  Then we can all just creatively pursue our interests without the need of a corporation in the market.

In the business of design, it is a never-ending battle back and forth between the benefits of compatibility and standardization versus protecting intellectual property so it is worthwhile to invest the resources on new designs with reasonable expectations for compensation.  Every company has to choose where and how they draw the line of compromise between the two ends.

11 minutes ago, aFrInati0n said:

One example would be the PDF of 2002:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32002R0006 "COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 6/2002 of 12 December 2001 on Community designs":

I understand Article 8 as the description of what can't be registered as designs for parts which have an interconnecting system.

Interesting, I'm saving this for future reading.

[aFrInati0n]

4 minutes ago, Slegengr said:

(...not to mention I cannot read German and must rely on translation...)

That makes no difference - even as a German native I understand little to nothing... those documents are hilarious.. 

I believe I can just fail.. nevertheless I would like to walk the chain of what I can find (and understand).

[Yperio_Bricks]

18 minutes ago, Slegengr said:

We just need a benevolent benefactor to donate our community some CAD design software, mold-making tooling, plastic injection machinery, and sources of the best plastics! 

All of this is not needed. Gobricks will do all the work. Or other Chinese companies that produce bricks, commission and package sets. New molds are expensive (not as expensive as Lego wants us to believe, but still) but if you use only bricks they already have in their catalogue there won't be such costs. It was never easier to start your own brick brand 

I can only suggest watching the YT channel Johnny's World. He is the owner of the Kiddicraft brick brand and talks about all those things in great detail. He even mentions the cost of new molds but I forgot the exact number. Even for purists the videos offer a whole new level of insight into the design, production, packaging and shipping of sets. And all the legal aspects too. For example the court-proof Kiddiz minifig was designed in a way that it impossible for Lego to attack it. I read Lego forums, news sites, reddit, blogs etc, but never got so much insight and information as on Johnny's World. I don't want to promote the company but he is the most knowledgeable person you will find. And of course he got dragged to court more than once by Lego.

 

Edited yesterday at 04:40 PM by Yperio_Bricks
typo

[aFrInati0n]

42 minutes ago, danth said:

Hmm. Planning our own alt brick brand? I'm all for it. We can even call it EuroBricks. Just make sure we make Space sets...and no stickers!

Please not, I would consider the risk too big... 

[danth]

Just now, aFrInati0n said:

Please not, I would consider the risk too big... 

No risk, no reward!

[aFrInati0n]

Ah right, Johnny was very invested in those topics.. may be a good baseline of things he digged up already. And unfortunately for him he also had some experiences for himself... 

Ouf, ok big learning is, EUIPO has only a little amount of the designs and one would be better of with the WIPO.. Unfortunately:

Quote

Active 346,818
Pending 906
Inactive 184,706

via https://designdb.wipo.int/designdb/user/en/ (again searching for the Holder "LEGO A/S"). Export functions allow only up to 150 entries... even if one has created an account.. not sure if they offer some (ratelimited) APIs..

[Slegengr]

1 hour ago, aFrInati0n said:

That makes no difference - even as a German native I understand little to nothing... those documents are hilarious.. 

I believe I can just fail.. nevertheless I would like to walk the chain of what I can find (and understand).

1 hour ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

All of this is not needed. Gobricks will do all the work. Or other Chinese companies that produce bricks, commission and package sets. New molds are expensive (not as expensive as Lego wants us to believe, but still) but if you use only bricks they already have in their catalogue there won't be such costs. It was never easier to start your own brick brand 

I can only suggest watching the YT channel Johnny's World. He is the owner of the Kiddicraft brick brand and talks about all those things in great detail. He even mentions the cost of new molds but I forgot the exact number. Even for purists the videos offer a whole new level of insight into the design, production, packaging and shipping of sets. And all the legal aspects too. For example the court-proof Kiddiz minifig was designed in a way that it impossible for Lego to attack it. I read Lego forums, news sites, reddit, blogs etc, but never got so much insight and information as on Johnny's World. I don't want to promote the company but he is the most knowledgeable person you will find. And of course he got dragged to court more than once by Lego.

 

 That part of my comment was intentional hyperbole or tongue-in-cheek for the laugh, not at all a serious ask.

I will definitely check our your recommendations for more information when I have the time!

1 hour ago, aFrInati0n said:

Ah right, Johnny was very invested in those topics.. may be a good baseline of things he digged up already. And unfortunately for him he also had some experiences for himself... 

Ouf, ok big learning is, EUIPO has only a little amount of the designs and one would be better of with the WIPO.. Unfortunately:

via https://designdb.wipo.int/designdb/user/en/ (again searching for the Holder "LEGO A/S"). Export functions allow only up to 150 entries... even if one has created an account.. not sure if they offer some (ratelimited) APIs..

Wow, this is a lot more to look into when I find the time!

[icm]

1 hour ago, danth said:

Hmm. Planning our own alt brick brand? I'm all for it. We can even call it EuroBricks. Just make sure we make Space sets...and no stickers!

Bluebrixx has their own line of stickerless "Space Pioneers" sets out right now, you might want to take a look. They don't particularly appeal to me, though.

https://www.bluebrixx.com/de/prod/108914/space-pioneers-erkundungsschiff/

What I'm more interested in right now are the Bluebrixx models of the James Webb Space Telescope, Cassini/Huyghens spacecraft, and Voyager space probe. I could probably bricklink the parts for those if I really wanted to get them, but the sets themselves are out of reach because BB doesn't ship to the USA anymore. Maybe in another five years Lego will make those.

Edited yesterday at 05:46 PM by icm

[Yperio_Bricks]

4 minutes ago, Slegengr said:

 That part of my comment was intentional hyperbole or tongue-in-cheek for the laugh, not at all a serious ask.

But it is possible   

[danth]

1 hour ago, icm said:

Bluebrixx has their own line of stickerless "Space Pioneers" sets out right now, you might want to take a look. They don't particularly appeal to me, though.

https://www.bluebrixx.com/de/prod/108914/space-pioneers-erkundungsschiff/

I don't hate it. I do wonder why it has no minifigs. Also is it really a line? I only ever see that one set.

Oh wait I'm seeing the other stuff now...

[SylvainLS]

Oh, no, Bluebrixx is absolutely not infringing on any IP, no no.

Not Space 1999

Not Galactica

Not Captain Future

Not Star Wars

[aFrInati0n]

@SylvainLS IT may not be that easy...

"Model Car World GmbH" (the other company founded by Mr Kiunke, founder of Bluebrixx) won in court against Volkswagen.

https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2025/06/small-cars-big-trouble-final-chapter.html

1st hit I found on google for an english article. I believe Bluebrixx takes this decision as its baseline for having sets for franchies without licencing, just as they are "iconic enough" as reason - as long as no original names or similar is put on it..

edit: this page is encouraging me those IP topics shall be fun..

"The IPKat: Intellectual Property News and Fun for Everyone!"