Marvel Superheroes 2025 - Rumors & Discussion

[Kaijumeister]

Allow me to introduce a Monkey’s Paw situation:

The Sandman set is indeed based on Raimi-Man 3, but it reuses the live action Tobey suit we got in the NWH Final Battle set instead of finally giving the symbiote suit. And they’ll perplexingly use the young Han Solo head for him again.

The set list isn’t bad. A playscale Bugle is certainly warranted (however, I do hope they dedicate most of the pieces towards the main building and not dilute it with side builds), it’s sad that these playset builds have atrocious piece counts though. I’m just hoping we don’t get the same minifigure reuses again. Very happy for the Lego Marvel Team to find their millionth use of the Mark 43 minifigure in what will presumably be an AoU Hulkbuster.

There’s no denying the creative bankruptcy within Lego Superheroes though. I hope to be proven wrong with the execution of these sets.

Edited September 25 by Kaijumeister

[Mandalorianknight]

12 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

Aren't all the characters going to be mixed up and split into different groups, like with what happened to Infinity War? That's what I remember reading although I don't recall the groups.

Hopefully they'll just ignore Sins Past then like Marvel does.

I think her portrayal in the ASM films sorta helped reinvent the character for a modern age but then Spider-Gwen, who basically has nothing in common with the original Gwen Stacy, took off and more or less overshadowed the original Gwen. Marvel seems to have essentially replaced her with Spider-Gwen now and doesn't seem to have any interest in revisiting the original Gwen. I'm guessing the only reason there was a civilian Gwen minifigure in the Daily Bugle was just because they already had a random blonde minifigure and we know Marvel didn't like the idea of Lego populating the Daily Bugle with generic minifigs so they made them rename them to existing characters from the comics. Hence why most of them don't look anything like their comic counterparts. 

Yeah, there's two groups, but there's very clearly the "Popular infinity saga characters+Samvengers+characters we're trying to promote" group and the "Sidekicks/characters we don't want to promote group." It seems like the Russos know how many characters they have on their hands and are trying to remove the ones that they don't know and marvel isn't pushing them to include.

Hope so.

I think it's inarguable (both- that spider-gwen is taking over, and that the bugle just made generic civilians and slapped names on them). For Gwen, it actually really annoys me. I don't dislike spider-gwen as a multiversal character, but while moving Miles into mainline universes was fine (especially since there wasn't a pre-existing Miles character he overwrote - out of universe, I know there's a story later where he finds 616 miles), Spider-gwen dominating the Gwen Stacy name hurts any chances of a non-spider gwen showing up. If I remember right the last pre-streaming spidey cartoon HAD a gwen stacy... for about five minutes before turning her into spider-gwen. 

For the bugle civilians, there's no arguing that you aren't correct about what happened. "Ron Barney" is a name that appears under a Silver Surfer article in a single issue of a marvel comic in the '90s, there's not even a visual depiction of him for them to have based the character off of. "Amber Grant" Appears in a few issues of the OG Defenders and a few issues of a comic called "Omega the Unknown", so obscure that she has different last names depending on the issue- and looks nothing like the figure in the set. "Bernie the Cab Driver" - my man didn't even get a last name - is most likely Bernie Tibbs, a sanitation truck driver who appeared in a single issue of Avengers, though he doesn't really resemble his guy either. If it wasn't for the hat matching and the other two names being obscure pulls I would have assumed they made him up.

10 hours ago, brickbride said:

I think an evil John could actually have worked if he were well-written. I love Agatha and she's as evil as they come!

But yeah, I don't think they have much of a coherent vision for their MCU any more. This ties in with "Secret Invasion"'s "Yeah, we shot some stuff and now we're trying to hammer out a plot in post-production" attitude as well. Overall I feel myself getting less and less invested in the official MCU because of it. I'll probably watch "Doomsday" at the cinema and I'll probably catch the next couple of movies once they show up on Disney+, and maybe a couple of series featuring characters I might like,  but I'm not anywhere as invested as I was in the days of "Infinity War"/"Endgame", and I think most people aren't.

I dunno. Agatha IS evil, whereas John really isn't. From everything we see in TFATWS he's a good person who just crashed out a bit (again, IMO reasonably) after his best friend was killed.

7 hours ago, spiderfan2000 said:

I mean, if it's a comic based set, I could see the build being a small storefront or something to go with the other buildings we've been getting.

Assuming this is the sandman set, for $25 in 2025 that storefront would have to be TINY unless it was just a sandman minifigure. My assumption is it'll be a sand-form sandman and likely fit a minifigure inside it somewhere.

[AndrewCole14]

If the Sandman set is based on Spider-Man 3 I can see them adapting the scene with the armoured truck. 3 minifigures if you want to include a driver and a vehicle. 

[Coryo]

Caught a glimpse of the guy working at the Kmart tech desk scanning the Spider-Verse CMFs and picking some out for his own collection before putting the box out  Fortunately he helped me find the ones I wanted and sold them to me a week before the street date. I appreciate that they've managed to keep CMFs at $5 AUD here, considering they've seemingly increased the prices everywhere else in the world.

10 hours ago, Kaijumeister said:

Very happy for the Lego Marvel Team to find their millionth use of the Mark 43 minifigure in what will presumably be an AoU Hulkbuster.

Comparing the Hulkbuster to the Leviathan and Brave New World sets, the piece count/price point may rule out the inclusion of a bigfig Hulk, which would likely mean it isn't based on Age of Ultron. So I'd guess it's either another Bruce Banner/Wakanda set (way too soon imo), or potentially a comic-based version (last one was in 2020). Unless there's something I'm missing and it showed up in a game or animated series recently.

7 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Spider-gwen dominating the Gwen Stacy name hurts any chances of a non-spider gwen showing up. If I remember right the last pre-streaming spidey cartoon HAD a gwen stacy... for about five minutes before turning her into spider-gwen. 

Assuming this is the sandman set, for $25 in 2025 that storefront would have to be TINY unless it was just a sandman minifigure. My assumption is it'll be a sand-form sandman and likely fit a minifigure inside it somewhere.

This is admittedly a long shot, but I could see a civilian Gwen being made around the same time as Incredibles 3, since she could use a recoloured version of Violet's hair/headband piece.

The recent appearances of Ant-Man and Iron Patriot Mk. II in the Endgame sets have shown that Lego is willing to include mech builds in a regular sets, I wouldn't be surprised if this set is a small vehicle or street build alongside a sand-mech.
 

[Mandalorianknight]

3 hours ago, Coryo said:

Unless there's something I'm missing and it showed up in a game

There is only one answer. The set is clearly based on the upcoming game 闘魂 Tokon, Fighting Souls! It's an extremely unique hulkbuster design with a correspondingly intricate iron man. Any of the designs from that game would be awesome to have as figures, but my personal hopes would be the motorcycle jacket-styled captain america, the very anime-esque Star-Lord, or the "his ultimate ability is literally just pulling out a handgun and shooting his opponent in the face" Doom. 

But yeah, no, it's not in Rivals and I can't think of any animated series recently that could have had it. Maybe marvel zombies had it, but we'd never see a set based on that show from what I've heard. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I know there's an Iron Man spinoff of that spider-man disney junior show (where they screw over Pepper and Rhodey in favor of Ironheart and, I kid you not, "Iron Hulk"), but assumably that set would be 4+.

Realistically, it's possible it's the AoU hulkbuster, just without hulk, but otherwise I think you're right that a comic one would be the most likely possibility. If that's true it'd be great news in terms of getting more variety in the set both in terms of the figures and the actual hulkbuster design- especially since the iconic comic hulkbuster design is absolutely not what we got in 2020- but unfortunately I think the most likely option is just that it's the AoU hulkbuster and they've somehow omitted Hulk.

7 hours ago, AndrewCole14 said:

If the Sandman set is based on Spider-Man 3 I can see them adapting the scene with the armoured truck. 3 minifigures if you want to include a driver and a vehicle. 

I guess this is possible, but it'd be a pretty sad truck. Purely accounting for inflation and not any of lego's above-inflation increases, the 2014 spider-man armored truck set would be ~$27 today. 

[JeanGreyForever]

22 hours ago, brickbride said:

For me it's the other way round! I really like Carol, I thought she was excellently written in her own movie, and I've never liked Wanda. She was straight-up selfish and mostly evil from the start and it always irked me that we were expected to somehow like her despite all of that. In any situation where there's a moral and a selfish, evil choice you can pretty much count on Wanda to take option two. Whereas Carol is a hero but I think many people's problem with her is that she just isn't "womanly" enough. She doesn't define herself through her emotions or maternal instinct as much as through her deeds and in the MCU that's a position usually reserved for men. Male heroes are expected to just get shit done no matter how they feel about it; female heroes are expected to be emotional.

Carol definitely comes across as stoic, which is more associated with male characters. However, I can't think of any MCU male character who comes across as stoic as Carol is. I don't think her not being presented as emotional is the real issue with her, because a character like Black Widow was also not emotional. She had two close ties, to Hawkeye and Yelena, but otherwise, the film that makes her the most "feminine" or traditionally gender-coded was also the one she got the most hate from: AoU with fans unanimously hating her romance with Bruce and trauma from being forcibly sterilized. There's a reason both of those plot points never came up again after AoU. I think that hurts Carol is the inconsistency in her writing because she's not as well-defined as her predecessors, which is also a main problem for most of these post-Endgame characters. Carol's in a gray area where she's technically a pre-Endgame character but written like a post-Endgame one since most of her material was written or came out after Endgame, so she's held to a higher standard with the Phases 1-3 characters. Her other issue is that she has no strong emotional ties to any characters the audience cares about. Monica and Kamala are not really characters the audience is interested in, especially as they're Disney+ characters that most people wouldn't be familiar with. Doctor Strange definitely got a boost from all his screentime with Spider-Man, starting in Infinity War, but Carol doesn't really have that boost from any A-Listers.

As for Wanda, you said she was mostly evil from the start, so do you mean from her first appearances in The Winter Soldier/AoU? I think audiences can sympathize with her more because we've journeyed with the character since 2015, even when she was essentially just a side character. She also broke out in a streaming show during the midst of the pandemic, which really helped boost her popularity and exposure. The MCU project where she's written to be the most evil is MoM and that's a film that's lost more and more goodwill as time has gone on for a reason because Wanda is so one-dimensionally evil there. I think Elizabeth Olsen's acting helps make the character still sympathetic, plus the fact that the other characters can come across as worse. Wanda calls out Strange for being a hypocrite because he breaks all the rules she does, but only she gets vilified for it. I found Strange really unlikable in his sequel, because he breaks almost as many taboos as Wanda does and the film still expects us to side with him, even after we learn that basically every Strange variant across the multiverse ends up going bad. And the other character, Miss America, was such a generic cipher of a character, that you're almost rooting for her to get killed just to get her off the screen. Honestly, the Wanda scenes are the only repeatable ones for me in MoM.

12 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Yeah, there's two groups, but there's very clearly the "Popular infinity saga characters+Samvengers+characters we're trying to promote" group and the "Sidekicks/characters we don't want to promote group." It seems like the Russos know how many characters they have on their hands and are trying to remove the ones that they don't know and marvel isn't pushing them to include.

Hope so.

I think it's inarguable (both- that spider-gwen is taking over, and that the bugle just made generic civilians and slapped names on them). For Gwen, it actually really annoys me. I don't dislike spider-gwen as a multiversal character, but while moving Miles into mainline universes was fine (especially since there wasn't a pre-existing Miles character he overwrote - out of universe, I know there's a story later where he finds 616 miles), Spider-gwen dominating the Gwen Stacy name hurts any chances of a non-spider gwen showing up. If I remember right the last pre-streaming spidey cartoon HAD a gwen stacy... for about five minutes before turning her into spider-gwen. 

For the bugle civilians, there's no arguing that you aren't correct about what happened. "Ron Barney" is a name that appears under a Silver Surfer article in a single issue of a marvel comic in the '90s, there's not even a visual depiction of him for them to have based the character off of. "Amber Grant" Appears in a few issues of the OG Defenders and a few issues of a comic called "Omega the Unknown", so obscure that she has different last names depending on the issue- and looks nothing like the figure in the set. "Bernie the Cab Driver" - my man didn't even get a last name - is most likely Bernie Tibbs, a sanitation truck driver who appeared in a single issue of Avengers, though he doesn't really resemble his guy either. If it wasn't for the hat matching and the other two names being obscure pulls I would have assumed they made him up.

Honestly, most of the Sam's Avengers characters don't seem all that popular with general audiences either. Marvel might be trying to push them as important but the failure of BNW basically shows that nobody cares about Sam or wants to see him as a lead...again. Shang-Chi had potential but he's been gone from the screen for so long that he's become irrelevant and that momentum is gone. Carol is DOA. Haven't even heard about Moon Knight or She-Hulk, but even they're Disney+ characters with Shulkie rather controversial herself. So regardless of which side the Thunderbolts are on, the main group or the side group, I think most audiences will lump them all together as side groups in general. Most comments I'm reading for Doomsday are why are all the heavy hitters people actually care about missing, like Doctor Strange, the trio of Spider-Mans, Wanda, Wolverine, Deadpool, etc. Marvel is going to have a really hard time pushing a cast of characters that most audiences are generally apathetic towards now at best.

I don't think I've seen any major media with a civilian Gwen in ages. The ASM depiction was the last major one and probably more or less the deathknell for the character. Even that depiction was rather controversial as people felt Marvel hadn't aged with the times for killing off such a popular character/love interest. So I'm not surprised that since Spider-Gwen appeared on the scene, they basically act like the classic Gwen Stacy doesn't exist anymore. Classic Gwen, for better or for worse, is a PR nightmare now, so that's the main thing I can see explaining why we haven't gotten a proper minifig for her yet and might still not even in a modular Oscorp set.

Exactly, all those minifigs were given names from the most obscure characters imaginable, just to fit Marvel's criteria. I don't see this brought up enough but even Robbie Robertson and Ben Urich look nothing like their characters. Robbie should have gray hair and no facial hair. And he's traditionally clad in a suit or vest like J. Jonah Jameson is, so putting him in a sweater was even more odd. Ben Urich is also given facial hair when he doesn't sport that in the comics. Ironically enough, the Robbie Robertson minifig we did get has more resemblance to the Netflix Ben Urich from the Daredevil show.

[brickbride]

5 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

As for Wanda, you said she was mostly evil from the start, so do you mean from her first appearances in The Winter Soldier/AoU? I think audiences can sympathize with her more because we've journeyed with the character since 2015, even when she was essentially just a side character. She also broke out in a streaming show during the midst of the pandemic, which really helped boost her popularity and exposure. The MCU project where she's written to be the most evil is MoM and that's a film that's lost more and more goodwill as time has gone on for a reason because Wanda is so one-dimensionally evil there. I think Elizabeth Olsen's acting helps make the character still sympathetic, plus the fact that the other characters can come across as worse.

Here's Wanda's life decisions in a nutshell:

- blaming Tony Stark for something he has no part in (yes the missile was Starktech, but there's no reason to believe Tony sold it to the Sokovians in the first place let alone knew what it was to be used for)

- willingly joining Hydra

- willingly working with Ultron (and only turning on him when she realized that he was going after her home as opposed to anywhere else), and traumatizing Tony Stark in the process, apparently just for fun

- somehow becoming an Avenger despite her complete lack of morals

- mindcontrolling an entire town in order to play Happy Families with her made-up husband and kids (and stopping when random strangers asked her to which to me is a far bigger out-of-character moment than anything in MoM)

- killing a shitload of Kamar-Taj wizards who were just doing their job

- repeatedly trying to murder a child (America), and actually murdering at least one alternate-universe version of Strange

- repeatedly mindcontrolling an alternate-universe version of herself and trying to steal her children (and only stopping when she found out that it wouldn't work)

For short, these are not the life choices of a good person let aloen a hero. Yes she's had a hard life (but name me one Marvel character who hasn't), yes she was traumatized at a young age (again, not uncommon in the MCU), yes she's lost loved ones (again, this is the MCU). And she's not the first or only person in the MCU who's made mistakes, but most people don't make the same one - by which I mean: chosing her own gratification about everyone else's life and freedom - over and over again. If Wanda is considered Avengers material the bar must be very low indeed. I was sort of on board for her sacrificing herself in order to destroy the Darkhold as a send-off in which she finally did a decent thing for once, but apparently that wasn't even permanent.

5 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

plus the fact that the other characters can come across as worse. Wanda calls out Strange for being a hypocrite because he breaks all the rules she does, but only she gets vilified for it. I found Strange really unlikable in his sequel, because he breaks almost as many taboos as Wanda does and the film still expects us to side with him, even after we learn that basically every Strange variant across the multiverse ends up going bad.

I can absolutely not see that. Whatever else you can say about Strange, he always serves the public good and Wanda usually (almost always) does not. Yes he can be an arrogant jerk about it, and yes he goes to extremes (like giving away the Time Stone, or reading the Darkhold and accidentally causing an incursion, or Dreamwalking into a dead body) but his INTENTIONS are good. And that makes all the difference. A person who's read the Darkhold and is willing to do everything in order to steal someone's children is not on the same level as a person who's read the Darkhold and is willing to do everything in order to protect his planet.

And what do you mean, every Strange variant across the multiverse ends up going bad? Our Strange doesn't. America's friend (Zombie Strange) didn't. The Strange that was murdered by the Illuminati made a mistake (a huge one admittedly, but again his intentions were benign) and calmly accepted his death sentence. Only one of them outright went bad.

I agree about America, by the way. She's so much more a MacGuffin than a character, they might as well have replaced her with a literal silver suitcase. I also agree that Wanda's portrayal in MoM doesn't follow from WandaVision - but again, not because Wanda's not at her core a selfish and ruthless person. It's just weird that in WandaVision she was this hung up on her husband and brother, and willing to let her sons go, and in MoM she's obsessed with her sons and no longer spends a thought on either her husband or her brother.

Edited September 26 by brickbride

[thebricksbear]

3 hours ago, brickbride said:

Wanda's life decisions in a nutshell

This was a fun read, haha.
I'll raise you:
-Killed a[several?] floor full of people in Lagos with Crossbones' bomb, though unintentionally

-Refused to deescalate the avengers civil war by remaining with Vision

 

It seems like the only real unbelievable jump for her character is the point when she joins the avengers. The "you step out there" speech from Hawkeye was cool, but after the conflict there really isn't any kind of atonement shown, or any kind of interview process for 'Cap's Avengers.' I think the 'lack of morals' you mentioned is a little heavy handed, but to your point giving Tony the vision wasn't something she had to do, she seemed to be doing it for the joy of getting back at him.

[Mandalorianknight]

9 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

And the other character, Miss America, was such a generic cipher of a character, that you're almost rooting for her to get killed just to get her off the screen. Honestly, the Wanda scenes are the only repeatable ones for me in MoM.

Honestly, most of the Sam's Avengers characters don't seem all that popular with general audiences either. Marvel might be trying to push them as important but the failure of BNW basically shows that nobody cares about Sam or wants to see him as a lead...again. Shang-Chi had potential but he's been gone from the screen for so long that he's become irrelevant and that momentum is gone. Carol is DOA. Haven't even heard about Moon Knight or She-Hulk, but even they're Disney+ characters with Shulkie rather controversial herself. So regardless of which side the Thunderbolts are on, the main group or the side group, I think most audiences will lump them all together as side groups in general. Most comments I'm reading for Doomsday are why are all the heavy hitters people actually care about missing, like Doctor Strange, the trio of Spider-Mans, Wanda, Wolverine, Deadpool, etc. Marvel is going to have a really hard time pushing a cast of characters that most audiences are generally apathetic towards now at best.

Exactly, all those minifigs were given names from the most obscure characters imaginable, just to fit Marvel's criteria. I don't see this brought up enough but even Robbie Robertson and Ben Urich look nothing like their characters. Robbie should have gray hair and no facial hair. And he's traditionally clad in a suit or vest like J. Jonah Jameson is, so putting him in a sweater was even more odd. Ben Urich is also given facial hair when he doesn't sport that in the comics. Ironically enough, the Robbie Robertson minifig we did get has more resemblance to the Netflix Ben Urich from the Daredevil show.

If you think she was bad in the movie, the comics are something else. They read like some edgy parody a 14- year old mad at the All-New-All-Different era would make to mock marvel, but as far as I can tell it was made completely genuinely as if we're supposed to think she's the coolest person ever.

No, yeah, I should have specified- it's the popular characters AND the samvengers, who marvel is trying to push. I don't know why, since they have pretty clear evidence that nobody likes them, but you look at who else is on the team that goes with the samvengers:

Spoiler

Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Bucky, Yelena, Reed, Sue, as well as the plot being that they're on the multiverse adventure while the rest stay behind to defend earth while they're gone.

and it's pretty clear which team is intended to get the lion's share of screen time. AFAIK Moon Knight isn't even in Doomsday, which is good in my opinion. I liked the show (even if after reading the comics, I realized how terrible of an adaption it is- Moon Knight isn't a normal guy with DID that makes him seem wacky, he's an absolute nutjob who's DID is an understood medical condition he has a handle on, but unrelated to that disorder is running around crashing helicopters into buildings, yelling at ants to find Hank Pym, and making a sundial out of -until the dial reaches them- still-living vampires) but MCU Marc doesn't really fit into a doomsday scenario.

That's also a good point- Robbie and Ben may have been characters who actually have relevance in the comics and show up in media (Like the excellent Netflix Ben Urich), but they look nothing like their comic- or movie/tv- characters in the set. Functionally they're the same random part mixmatches as the obscure no-names.

1 hour ago, thebricksbear said:

-Killed a[several?] floor full of people in Lagos with Crossbones' bomb, though unintentionally

-Refused to deescalate the avengers civil war by remaining with Vision

This was always unclear to me. In the comics, the blame is due to the superhero team involved messing around and playing it up for the news, accidentally giving the villain an opening to kill all those people. In the movie, Crossbones's bomb would have still killed a ton of civilians had Wanda not moved the blast- probably more people, not to mention the avengers themselves. It's a tragedy, but it's a lot more understandable than "a school full of kids is dead because the superheroes were playing around with the media instead of doing their jobs". 

1 hour ago, thebricksbear said:

'Cap's Avengers.'

'Cap's Kooky Quartet', except they killed quicksilver before we could see it onscreen.

Edited September 26 by Mandalorianknight

[BoyLego]

Marvel Zombies was fun! Nice to finally see some of the current heroes interacting. I still think the ‘What If’ art style is cursed but the tone felt a lot more right than in the stand alone zombies episode.

I know they won’t but could make for a fun CMF, I’m kinda tempted to pick up a zombie cap now.

[JeanGreyForever]

7 hours ago, brickbride said:

Here's Wanda's life decisions in a nutshell:

- blaming Tony Stark for something he has no part in (yes the missile was Starktech, but there's no reason to believe Tony sold it to the Sokovians in the first place let alone knew what it was to be used for)

- willingly joining Hydra

- willingly working with Ultron (and only turning on him when she realized that he was going after her home as opposed to anywhere else), and traumatizing Tony Stark in the process, apparently just for fun

- somehow becoming an Avenger despite her complete lack of morals

- mindcontrolling an entire town in order to play Happy Families with her made-up husband and kids (and stopping when random strangers asked her to which to me is a far bigger out-of-character moment than anything in MoM)

- killing a shitload of Kamar-Taj wizards who were just doing their job

- repeatedly trying to murder a child (America), and actually murdering at least one alternate-universe version of Strange

- repeatedly mindcontrolling an alternate-universe version of herself and trying to steal her children (and only stopping when she found out that it wouldn't work)

For short, these are not the life choices of a good person let aloen a hero. Yes she's had a hard life (but name me one Marvel character who hasn't), yes she was traumatized at a young age (again, not uncommon in the MCU), yes she's lost loved ones (again, this is the MCU). And she's not the first or only person in the MCU who's made mistakes, but most people don't make the same one - by which I mean: chosing her own gratification about everyone else's life and freedom - over and over again. If Wanda is considered Avengers material the bar must be very low indeed. I was sort of on board for her sacrificing herself in order to destroy the Darkhold as a send-off in which she finally did a decent thing for once, but apparently that wasn't even permanent.

I can absolutely not see that. Whatever else you can say about Strange, he always serves the public good and Wanda usually (almost always) does not. Yes he can be an arrogant jerk about it, and yes he goes to extremes (like giving away the Time Stone, or reading the Darkhold and accidentally causing an incursion, or Dreamwalking into a dead body) but his INTENTIONS are good. And that makes all the difference. A person who's read the Darkhold and is willing to do everything in order to steal someone's children is not on the same level as a person who's read the Darkhold and is willing to do everything in order to protect his planet.

And what do you mean, every Strange variant across the multiverse ends up going bad? Our Strange doesn't. America's friend (Zombie Strange) didn't. The Strange that was murdered by the Illuminati made a mistake (a huge one admittedly, but again his intentions were benign) and calmly accepted his death sentence. Only one of them outright went bad.

I agree about America, by the way. She's so much more a MacGuffin than a character, they might as well have replaced her with a literal silver suitcase. I also agree that Wanda's portrayal in MoM doesn't follow from WandaVision - but again, not because Wanda's not at her core a selfish and ruthless person. It's just weird that in WandaVision she was this hung up on her husband and brother, and willing to let her sons go, and in MoM she's obsessed with her sons and no longer spends a thought on either her husband or her brother.

How was Tony Stark not complicit? Before becoming Iron Man, he dealt in munitions and weapons manufacturing. You seem to be trying to whitewash his image with the dubious claim that although the missile was Stark tech, hat doesn't mean he sold that specific missile which killed Wanda's parents, which is hilariously a sidestep. Considering he was a known arms dealer for the government, doesn't it make the most sense that the Stark missile that was sold to Sokovia came directly from him and his company? Why wouldn't Wanda blame him for the destruction of her home and parents? And interesting that you feel she isn't right to blame him but how do you feel about Tony blaming Bucky for his parents' death (or his mother I should say, because he barely seems to care about his dad dying in comparison)? Bucky was brainwashed and conditioned for decades against his will and no control over his actions, but Tony held him accountable and didn't care to see reason, even going up against his friend and teammate out of pursuit for his vendetta

Why blame only Wanda for being indoctrinated into HYDRA when half of SHIELD was also HYDRA? And unlike Wanda, who would have grown up in an environment where she believed anything HYDRA said, because it was anti-west and promised her vengeance for her broken family, those SHIELD agents should still have known better but all of them, starting with Alexander Pierce from the topdown, knew what HYDRA was and still believed in its tenets. You blame Wanda for joining Ultron and "traumatizing" Stark lol like he's some innocent child. You do realize that considering the arms business Tony was in, he must have more innocent blood on his hands than Wanda ever had? If he's traumatized, it's his own actions finally catching up to him after years of not caring. Why shouldn't Wanda let him feel what he's done to probably thousands or millions of families all over the globe. And from what I remember, Tony's trauma had less to do with anything Wanda did to him and more to do with his experience in space with the Chitauri and Thanos. He had PTSD from that, not Wanda's powers.

You claim Wanda has no morals and has no right to join the Avengers, but even ignoring war profiteering Tony Stark, how come Natasha and Clint don't get this treatment? Both of them were assassins and make no pretense about this. We don't know much about Clint's background in the MCU but we've seen everything Natasha has done over the years and why she thinks there's red in her ledger. We've even seen what other Black Widows had to do, such as Yelena. If Nat and Yelena can become Avengers, why shouldn't Wanda have the same right? Natasha and Clint probably had more blood on their hands than Wanda, although even that duo probably wouldn't match Tony in how many lives were lost from his actions. And Tony's actions, mind you, weren't even part of some greater good. He was into weapons manufacturing simply because of the profit involved, which is the most selfish motive there is. It isn't until he sees the consequences of his actions and how that's backfired on him, that he develops a little bit of a conscience and tries to amend his ways and gets out of the business.

She frees the town at the end of WandaVision. The whole show is about her slippery slope and how she eventually realizes the error of her actions. Everything else you list is MoM and part of the character assassination which fans did not appreciate and why the film failed to make a billion dollars despite a strong start. They butchered their most popular new character in ages and haven't had anyone come close to her level of popularity since. Which Strange variant does Wanda kill? I don't remember that. And she doesn't stop trying to take back her children because she realizes it won't work but because she realizes how low she's descended when she sees the reaction of the children and how they're scared of her and think she's a witch rather than their mother. That's what snaps her back to reality.

Doctor Strange was designed to be the next Iron Man post-Endgame (as part of a new trio that was supposed to be him, Black Panther, and Captain Marvel). An extreme egotist who walks a thin line between hero and villain. It's no coincidence that most Strange variants we've met go bad or that Doctor Doom, the ultimate villain, will presumably be a Stark variant. What If? Doctor Strange (Strange Supreme) doesn't just go bad but becomes a power-hungry egomaniac as well as the big bad of the show by S2. MoM starts off showing a Strange variant who's willing to kill America and seize her power. Earth-838 Strange went bad and was even executed. He was considered such a danger that the Illuminati say every Strange they've ever encountered ultimately threatens not only the world but the multiverse and needs to be put down. They don't even consider Wanda a multiversal threat on the same scale of Strange, which shows that in the multiverse, most Wanda variants are well-adjusted and are content with a happy home unlike most Strange variants who become world-breaking threats. We see this with the third-eye Strange variant as well, that he's also evil and destroys his world. 616 Strange actually does kill him but 616 Strange isn't a bad guy for killing his variant while 616 Wanda dreamwalking into 838 Wanda is unforgivable for you?

If Wanda dreamwalking into her variant's body is considered to be something so wrong and profane, then why is Strange dreamwalking into his dead variant's body not looked at the same way? You claim he's doing it out of good for the world, unlike Wanda who has selfish motives, but does that really matter? Some of the most evil people in the world have convinced themselves it's fine to do bad/evil things because the ends justify the means. That they're making the world a better place. If dreamwalking is such a slippery slope to madness, then shouldn't Strange recognize that he's falling under the same trap as Wanda did by using the Darkhold and that he's set himself on the same path of ultimate corruption as well? Wanda even points out the hypocrisy of this but as usual, Strange is defended for his actions. You say 616 Strange isn't a villain but is even that true? MoM seems to show he's well on his path to corruption, including the fact that we see 616 Strange manifest the same third eye that the evil variant he killed had. It's an unmistakable sign that the Darkhold's corruption has seeped into him too, so as I pointed out, his actions have led to his corruption and proven the Illuminati right. Wanda at least acknowledges that her actions were all selfish and just for her own family's sake, but Strange is the ultimate hypocrite who makes every wrong decision, alienating everyone close to him, but still tries to claim he's a hero and doing it all for the sake of the world. That excuse can only hold up for so long, particularly when every variant we encounter of his makes the same mistakes out of the justification that he's saving the world, and all of them end up becoming villains or murderers for that reason. Calling 838 Strange's intentions benign is laughable to me because one could easily claim the same about Wanda's motivations, which actually weren't world-breaking beyond one individual's life. Once more, going back to why the Illuminati saw the greater scheme of things and prioritized Strange as the higher threat. And based on potential leaks, they were right to do that.

The next part I'm putting in spoilers because they're potential leaks for future movies but it goes to my point on why even 616 Strange can be considered a villain now (if MoM didn't make it explicit enough).

Spoiler

Leaks are saying Strange will get involved in Doomsday/Secret Wars by joining Doctor Doom's side. If that's true, this just further confirms that he's descended to villainy, but once more in the name of the greater good, that somehow only Doom can save the Multiverse. I'm sure people will find ways to excuse his actions here as well, while somehow pillorizing Wanda.

I agree with you though that MoM Wanda only caring for her children and not thinking of the rest of her family, especially Vision, seemed super OOC. It also shows how dependent these characters' writings are based on contracts and actor obligations. With Wanda's power, there's no reason Pietro couldn't come back in WandaVision but either there was no interest to bring back Aaron-Taylor Johnson or he refused to return. Vision was supposed to show up in a Disney+ series (the now cancelled Armor Wars) instead of the movies, so he's not included in MoM, which feels very jarring. But the MoM writers have confirmed that they didn't watch WandaVision or keep up with it while writing their movie which explains why the film fails to continue Wanda's arc and why Elizabeth Olsen said she didn't like what they did to her character. She wasn't alone because even Hayley Atwell disliked MoM and said she shouldn't have agreed to cameo in the movie since a character like Captain Carter deserved better than just appearing to be instantly killed off.

3 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

If you think she was bad in the movie, the comics are something else. They read like some edgy parody a 14- year old mad at the All-New-All-Different era would make to mock marvel, but as far as I can tell it was made completely genuinely as if we're supposed to think she's the coolest person ever.

No, yeah, I should have specified- it's the popular characters AND the samvengers, who marvel is trying to push. I don't know why, since they have pretty clear evidence that nobody likes them, but you look at who else is on the team that goes with the samvengers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Bucky, Yelena, Reed, Sue, as well as the plot being that they're on the multiverse adventure while the rest stay behind to defend earth while they're gone.

and it's pretty clear which team is intended to get the lion's share of screen time. AFAIK Moon Knight isn't even in Doomsday, which is good in my opinion. I liked the show (even if after reading the comics, I realized how terrible of an adaption it is- Moon Knight isn't a normal guy with DID that makes him seem wacky, he's an absolute nutjob who's DID is an understood medical condition he has a handle on, but unrelated to that disorder is running around crashing helicopters into buildings, yelling at ants to find Hank Pym, and making a sundial out of -until the dial reaches them- still-living vampires) but MCU Marc doesn't really fit into a doomsday scenario.

That's also a good point- Robbie and Ben may have been characters who actually have relevance in the comics and show up in media (Like the excellent Netflix Ben Urich), but they look nothing like their comic- or movie/tv- characters in the set. Functionally they're the same random part mixmatches as the obscure no-names.

This was always unclear to me. In the comics, the blame is due to the superhero team involved messing around and playing it up for the news, accidentally giving the villain an opening to kill all those people. In the movie, Crossbones's bomb would have still killed a ton of civilians had Wanda not moved the blast- probably more people, not to mention the avengers themselves. It's a tragedy, but it's a lot more understandable than "a school full of kids is dead because the superheroes were playing around with the media instead of doing their jobs". 

'Cap's Kooky Quartet', except they killed quicksilver before we could see it onscreen.

I've read very little of her in the comics outside of the Ultimates comics where she was part of an already OP team ensemble and so she didn't hog the spotlight thankfully.. MoM using this newly introduced character just to cause problems between two of the MCU's most popular characters, Strange and Wanda, probably didn't engender anymore sympathy towards her in what was an already thankless part. With her powerset, it'd be reasonable to assume she'll have a big role in Doomsday/Secret Wars but there was so much backlash to the character that I imagine she won't have much more than a minor part at best.

Ah, seeing those names does show that the MCU is definitely prioritizing those more popular characters then. I don't mind those characters you listed, but the Sam's Avengers team (whoever they even are at this point) doesn't engender much confidence if they're being paired along with those names. I can easily see their parts being cut down in reshoots since they'll be like a sinking weight. I agree that it doesn't bode well for the rest of the Thunderbolts who aren't included in what's probably the A-Team.

I'm guessing Marvel realized it was a mistake for Disney+ characters to have such a heavy role in Doomsday, hence why there doesn't seem to be a Moon Knight or She-Hulk. Moon Knight was actually well received but I think he's in the same boat as Shang-Chi now that there's been so much content since without him that any momentum he had is presumably gone now. I actually skipped his show because it came out around the time I gave up on the Disney+ shows. The last one I watched was Hawkeye (not including What If? Seasons 1-2 and even those I only watched much later on).

Yeah, blaming Wanda for the incident that causes Civil War is rather silly. Crossbones is the one who sets off the explosion with an intent to kill everyone around him. Wanda at that point isn't powerful or skilled enough to fully contain the blast. She's only able to essentially compress the explosion but it's very obvious that if she hadn't intervened, everyone in that area would be dead instead of just the few who did end up killed. Her actions saved lives rather than cost lives. The media crucifies Wanda and the Avengers, but there's a reason Cap and the Avengers make very clear to her that she has no reason to feel guilty. No one else on the team even had the powerset to handle an explosion like that so if Wanda was not considered morally fit to be an Avenger, as has been stated here, then there would have been way more lives lost and probably many dead Avengers as well.

 

[Mandalorianknight]

37 minutes ago, JeanGreyForever said:

*Wanda thing*

Yeah, I didn't want to write out the full response to all that but you swordy'd me and wrote it better than I could have. It's silly to act like an eastern european kid seeing her parents die and almost dying to a bomb with a big "STARK" logo on the side wouldn't a) have animosity for the Stark that made the weapons and b) be motivated to join what she'd have seen as a paramilitary group offering justice for her parents. Once she realizes what's really going on, she joins the avengers.

39 minutes ago, JeanGreyForever said:

I've read very little of her in the comics outside of the Ultimates comics where she was part of an already OP team ensemble and so she didn't hog the spotlight thankfully.. MoM using this newly introduced character just to cause problems between two of the MCU's most popular characters, Strange and Wanda, probably didn't engender anymore sympathy towards her in what was an already thankless part. With her powerset, it'd be reasonable to assume she'll have a big role in Doomsday/Secret Wars but there was so much backlash to the character that I imagine she won't have much more than a minor part at best.

Ah, seeing those names does show that the MCU is definitely prioritizing those more popular characters then. I don't mind those characters you listed, but the Sam's Avengers team (whoever they even are at this point) doesn't engender much confidence if they're being paired along with those names. I can easily see their parts being cut down in reshoots since they'll be like a sinking weight. I agree that it doesn't bode well for the rest of the Thunderbolts who aren't included in what's probably the A-Team.

I'm guessing Marvel realized it was a mistake for Disney+ characters to have such a heavy role in Doomsday, hence why there doesn't seem to be a Moon Knight or She-Hulk. Moon Knight was actually well received but I think he's in the same boat as Shang-Chi now that there's been so much content since without him that any momentum he had is presumably gone now. I actually skipped his show because it came out around the time I gave up on the Disney+ shows. The last one I watched was Hawkeye (not including What If? Seasons 1-2 and even those I only watched much later on).

Yeah, blaming Wanda for the incident that causes Civil War is rather silly. Crossbones is the one who sets off the explosion with an intent to kill everyone around him. Wanda at that point isn't powerful or skilled enough to fully contain the blast. She's only able to essentially compress the explosion but it's very obvious that if she hadn't intervened, everyone in that area would be dead instead of just the few who did end up killed. Her actions saved lives rather than cost lives. The media crucifies Wanda and the Avengers, but there's a reason Cap and the Avengers make very clear to her that she has no reason to feel guilty. No one else on the team even had the powerset to handle an explosion like that so if Wanda was not considered morally fit to be an Avenger, as has been stated here, then there would have been way more lives lost and probably many dead Avengers as well.

I think I heard she was in the movie, but so is almost everyone, so hopefully she doesn't have much of a role. Especially since the main multiverse-hopping stuff appears to be done via the F4's ship like we see in Thunderbolts.

I hope they cut those parts down in reshoots- or, not to be callous, but that marvel knows people don't care much about them and the Samvengers are coming along as cannon fodder to show how strong Doom is. Say he kills the samvengers and captures or subdues Sentry, Hulk, and Thor, with Bucky, Yelena and the F2 retreating, leading to the other F2 and the remaining thunderbolts having a larger role in secret wars alongside the inevitable Tobey/Wolverine/Deadpool/etc.

I think I dropped off the disney+ stuff around moon knight as well- I think Loki S2 was the last disney+ marvel thing I watched. I agree that MCU moonie and Shang both were fine with the lack of momentum hurting them. It's not so much how many years it's been since we last saw them, but how many filler projects have released since then.

Yup. The literal only rationale for why it would be anything other than purely good and heroic of wanda is that the people on that floor weren't in direct danger, so there's a bit of trading lives/trolley problem. But even then, while still a tragedy, Wanda did the best she could and saved hundreds of lives, including every avenger. If they played up that the global politicians are just mad that some of their own bureaucrats were killed rather than all the generic civilians and heroes present, that could have worked, but they never even imply that.

 

 

This might actually be the first year I buy multiple wave 1 marvel sets. I'll hold out on a few depending on whether or not we see the figs in a potential oscorp D2C, but no matter what I'm buying the ghost rider bike- it's $10. It's worth it to me to pay $10 for GR and his bike even if they show up in oscorp 10 months later- and if the sandman creature build is good I'll pick that up too.

[Borex]

I don’t know what you’re all talking about, but in the 80s i had a huge crush on Wanda. Foxy! 
(i also had a crush on Storm, Tigra, both Captain Marvels (Denvers and Rambeau). Hated Wasp and wasn’t a fan of Jean Grey as well)

[JeanGreyForever]

2 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Yeah, I didn't want to write out the full response to all that but you swordy'd me and wrote it better than I could have. It's silly to act like an eastern european kid seeing her parents die and almost dying to a bomb with a big "STARK" logo on the side wouldn't a) have animosity for the Stark that made the weapons and b) be motivated to join what she'd have seen as a paramilitary group offering justice for her parents. Once she realizes what's really going on, she joins the avengers.

I think I heard she was in the movie, but so is almost everyone, so hopefully she doesn't have much of a role. Especially since the main multiverse-hopping stuff appears to be done via the F4's ship like we see in Thunderbolts.

I hope they cut those parts down in reshoots- or, not to be callous, but that marvel knows people don't care much about them and the Samvengers are coming along as cannon fodder to show how strong Doom is. Say he kills the samvengers and captures or subdues Sentry, Hulk, and Thor, with Bucky, Yelena and the F2 retreating, leading to the other F2 and the remaining thunderbolts having a larger role in secret wars alongside the inevitable Tobey/Wolverine/Deadpool/etc.

I think I dropped off the disney+ stuff around moon knight as well- I think Loki S2 was the last disney+ marvel thing I watched. I agree that MCU moonie and Shang both were fine with the lack of momentum hurting them. It's not so much how many years it's been since we last saw them, but how many filler projects have released since then.

Yup. The literal only rationale for why it would be anything other than purely good and heroic of wanda is that the people on that floor weren't in direct danger, so there's a bit of trading lives/trolley problem. But even then, while still a tragedy, Wanda did the best she could and saved hundreds of lives, including every avenger. If they played up that the global politicians are just mad that some of their own bureaucrats were killed rather than all the generic civilians and heroes present, that could have worked, but they never even imply that.

 

 

This might actually be the first year I buy multiple wave 1 marvel sets. I'll hold out on a few depending on whether or not we see the figs in a potential oscorp D2C, but no matter what I'm buying the ghost rider bike- it's $10. It's worth it to me to pay $10 for GR and his bike even if they show up in oscorp 10 months later- and if the sandman creature build is good I'll pick that up too.

Also it just dawned on me that blame was put on Wanda for joining Ultron which is ignoring the obvious elephant in the room as to who created Ultron. These are two major examples, between Wanda's family getting killed by a Stark weapon and Ultron being created to manipulate the twins into joining him, where the common denominator behind them both is Tony Stark. Ultron would literally not exist without Tony creating him and it's funny that MCU Tony doesn't get nearly the same amount of flack that comic Hank Pym got for creating Ultron.

That's what I've heard about Monica as well. It's impossible not to include her because of The Marvels end-credits scene, as she'll be the link to the FoX-Men, but I wouldn't be shocked if her role was heavily cut down too. And considering that The Marvels must be the least watched MCU movie of all time, I can't even imagine how they'd explain Monica to general audiences watching Doomsday. At best, they'll remember her as a little girl from the first Captain Marvel. Somehow from there, they need to catch up on her as an adult in a Disney+ show, WandaVision, and how she got to the FoX-Men universe. The one thing that makes me think Miss America might still be somewhat plot relevant is that she's a multiversal anomaly and that seems like something that either will be important or it'll be completely ignored like Secret Invasion was.

Lol, tbh I agree that it's probably better for them to kill off some of Sam's Avengers just to up the stakes. Thanos got a brilliant intro in Infinity War by killing off Loki. Loki was a fan favorite but this current cast of Doomsday features very few characters who could qualify as such. Doom might just get more audience sympathy for knocking off some filler characters, much like how general audiences were unanimously in support of Taskmaster getting killed off almost immediately. I feel out of all the Thunderbolts characters, Ghost is the one I'd be most worried about. She's the least known or popular and she also had the least material in the first film. Which normally would hopefully mean she'll have more presence in future installments (like how James Gunn promised that Isabella Merced would get more screentime as Hawkgirl in future DC films since she had the least amount of screentime from the Justice Gang in Superman), but the MCU can't afford to do that. They have way too much going on.

My guess is also that we're going to have an Infinity War/Endgame situation where the heavy hitters are saved for the final film (Secret Wars) like the core/original Avengers were mostly neglected in Infinity War until Endgame gave them center stage again. 

I enjoyed Loki S1 until the Kang reveal and it killed my interest in S2. I also heard Loki fans who loved the dynamic between Loki and Sylvie complain that S2 really sidelined Sylvie. She wasn't a favorite of mine but it doesn't give me much faith in how cohesive the show is, especially with Kang removed from the MCU. The amount of filler projects that most people didn't watch is also why I can believe the rumors that Doomsday is going to be catered towards audiences as a direct sequel to Endgame. Which based on Anthony Mackie's comments about Doomsday, seems very likely. Most of the films in-between Endgame and Doomsday failed to resonate so it makes sense to build on the last big film that everyone did watch (NWH aside, which is Sony anyway). 

Good points about potential tension from politicians and bureaucrats being more annoyed that their own were killed instead of regular civilians. It's funny that Civil War was nearly adapted in the Foxverse as well, for a potential FF vs X-Men movie. I think Johnny was supposed to get the blame for the accident that would kill people (I think a school like in the comics) since he failed to stop Nitro, a mutant. 

GR set is also on my list. Because of the price point and because I missed the first set with him and Hobgoblin so I've wanted a properly-scaled bike for him.

[Mandalorianknight]

3 hours ago, Borex said:

I don’t know what you’re all talking about, but in the 80s i had a huge crush on Wanda. Foxy! 
(i also had a crush on Storm, Tigra, both Captain Marvels (Denvers and Rambeau). Hated Wasp and wasn’t a fan of Jean Grey as well)

This is not where I expected the conversation to go, lol. I've heard a lot of comic fans who've been with it for decades tend not to like Jean as much compared to the people who mainly know her from the movies or ancillary material. From what I've heard she kind of suffers from that "immortal cosmic entity-powered character starts to slip from a person to a plot device" issue a few of the other heavy-hitters fall prey to.

I won't weigh in too much but I'm sure anyone reading my posts can tell which of the marvel ladies I like most in that regard.

30 minutes ago, JeanGreyForever said:

Also it just dawned on me that blame was put on Wanda for joining Ultron which is ignoring the obvious elephant in the room as to who created Ultron. These are two major examples, between Wanda's family getting killed by a Stark weapon and Ultron being created to manipulate the twins into joining him, where the common denominator behind them both is Tony Stark. Ultron would literally not exist without Tony creating him and it's funny that MCU Tony doesn't get nearly the same amount of flack that comic Hank Pym got for creating Ultron.

That's what I've heard about Monica as well. It's impossible not to include her because of The Marvels end-credits scene, as she'll be the link to the FoX-Men, but I wouldn't be shocked if her role was heavily cut down too. And considering that The Marvels must be the least watched MCU movie of all time, I can't even imagine how they'd explain Monica to general audiences watching Doomsday. At best, they'll remember her as a little girl from the first Captain Marvel. Somehow from there, they need to catch up on her as an adult in a Disney+ show, WandaVision, and how she got to the FoX-Men universe. The one thing that makes me think Miss America might still be somewhat plot relevant is that she's a multiversal anomaly and that seems like something that either will be important or it'll be completely ignored like Secret Invasion was.

Lol, tbh I agree that it's probably better for them to kill off some of Sam's Avengers just to up the stakes. Thanos got a brilliant intro in Infinity War by killing off Loki. Loki was a fan favorite but this current cast of Doomsday features very few characters who could qualify as such. Doom might just get more audience sympathy for knocking off some filler characters, much like how general audiences were unanimously in support of Taskmaster getting killed off almost immediately. I feel out of all the Thunderbolts characters, Ghost is the one I'd be most worried about. She's the least known or popular and she also had the least material in the first film. Which normally would hopefully mean she'll have more presence in future installments (like how James Gunn promised that Isabella Merced would get more screentime as Hawkgirl in future DC films since she had the least amount of screentime from the Justice Gang in Superman), but the MCU can't afford to do that. They have way too much going on.

My guess is also that we're going to have an Infinity War/Endgame situation where the heavy hitters are saved for the final film (Secret Wars) like the core/original Avengers were mostly neglected in Infinity War until Endgame gave them center stage again. 

I enjoyed Loki S1 until the Kang reveal and it killed my interest in S2. I also heard Loki fans who loved the dynamic between Loki and Sylvie complain that S2 really sidelined Sylvie. She wasn't a favorite of mine but it doesn't give me much faith in how cohesive the show is, especially with Kang removed from the MCU. The amount of filler projects that most people didn't watch is also why I can believe the rumors that Doomsday is going to be catered towards audiences as a direct sequel to Endgame. Which based on Anthony Mackie's comments about Doomsday, seems very likely. Most of the films in-between Endgame and Doomsday failed to resonate so it makes sense to build on the last big film that everyone did watch (NWH aside, which is Sony anyway). 

Good points about potential tension from politicians and bureaucrats being more annoyed that their own were killed instead of regular civilians. It's funny that Civil War was nearly adapted in the Foxverse as well, for a potential FF vs X-Men movie. I think Johnny was supposed to get the blame for the accident that would kill people (I think a school like in the comics) since he failed to stop Nitro, a mutant. 

GR set is also on my list. Because of the price point and because I missed the first set with him and Hobgoblin so I've wanted a properly-scaled bike for him.

It's always funny to me that MCU Tony's attempts to prevent future violence and weapons end up doing significantly more damage than had Stark not tried it. There's a neat theme there, but not one marvel explores in regards to Tony.

I actually don't mind Monica- she's not very interesting to me, but she's not actively bad for the character or franchise, which for the phase 4 heroes is somehow a win. That said, I don't think she has many big fans, and given the lack of popularity of The Marvels I wouldn't be surprised if she's just a background character, or maybe there's a short line where she meets Carol in the X-men universe and Carol's like "wow I can't believe you got trapped in this universe when x event happened" and the audience is just sort of expected to go with it.

Oh, man, I'm actually not so sure now, unless they WANT us to root for doom. They already have to deal with RDJ's likeability and the fact that almost every remaining MCU character is either disliked, has been damaged over time (Thor and Hulk), or is just a complete unknown to most of the audience. Killing the Samvengers could cause cheers in some theatres. I didn't think about the risk to the thunderbolts, but hopefully they'll be safe. The A-team should be, given how much they seem to want to build up Yelena and Sentry. And I doubt the B-team storyline, if we even get one, will be all that high-stakes to get character deaths.

I think that's the plan here. Save Tobey and Hugh for secret wars and make a post-credits of Loki recruiting them.

I personally think Loki season 2 specifically is the best marvel show on disney+ and probably the best post-endgame Marvel Studios project besides Thunderbolts. The last two episodes in particular are some of the most emotional moments in the entire MCU and bring his character to such a perfect place. The Kang stuff isn't bad either- Kang isn't some big bad, it's more esoteric than that, but this show did a much better job selling the idea that a Kang COULD be a thanos level threat than Quandumbania did, and yet simultaneously by the end that Kang doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things.

Which ironically would be much closer to the comics- Johnny is absolutely the type of guy who could make a reckless mistake while showing off for the cameras, and Nitro is the one who blows up the school in the comics.

Yeah, the $10 price point is really nice. The 2016 bike was fairly oversized, but at $10 with two figures this one HAS to be a good size. (Though I hope he gets a villain instead of spider-man, a lot of kids are going to end up thinking GR Is a bad guy from this set and his spooky look.)

[brickbride]

8 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

or, not to be callous, but that marvel knows people don't care much about them and the Samvengers are coming along as cannon fodder to show how strong Doom is. Say he kills the samvengers and captures or subdues Sentry, Hulk, and Thor, with Bucky, Yelena and the F2 retreating, leading to the other F2 and the remaining thunderbolts having a larger role in secret wars alongside the inevitable Tobey/Wolverine/Deadpool/etc.

I think I dropped off the disney+ stuff around moon knight as well- I think Loki S2 was the last disney+ marvel thing I watched. I agree that MCU moonie and Shang both were fine with the lack of momentum hurting them. It's not so much how many years it's been since we last saw them, but how many filler projects have released since then.

As to your first idea: I'm not invested in the Samvengers but some of them would be a lot stronger than your average Thunderbolt. Like, say, Kamala or Billy. Thor if he's still around. Hulk has been established as pretty much unkillable. And Sentry is by far the most powerful of the Thunderbolts. So, what - Doom somehow kills or subdues all the powerful opponents, and then the remaining Thunderbolts eventually defeat him by kicking and punching? I'd absolutely watch an entire movie about John Walker, but it sounds unrealistic to me.

As for the second paragraph, go watch "Agatha All Along" immediately! It's great. I also enjoyed "Hawkeye" for the most part (by which I mean the parts that were actually about Hawekeye as opposed to shilling Yelena and Echo). "Agatha All Along" also made me go back and watch "WandaVision" which I hadn't originally caught, but I was pretty disappointed by that. I don't think the TV gimmick has aged all that well, and frankly I was more invested in the agents on the outside than in anything Wanda and Vision did. Agatha is also much more fun in her own series. Again, I can definitely recommend that one.

1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I actually don't mind Monica- she's not very interesting to me, but she's not actively bad for the character or franchise, which for the phase 4 heroes is somehow a win. That said, I don't think she has many big fans, and given the lack of popularity of The Marvels I wouldn't be surprised if she's just a background character, or maybe there's a short line where she meets Carol in the X-men universe and Carol's like "wow I can't believe you got trapped in this universe when x event happened" and the audience is just sort of expected to go with it.

I'm probably the only person here who genuinely liked "The Marvels", and even I don't like Monica, LOL. Honestly I'd be surprised if they bothered with a follow-up to it, or even acknowledged it in any way. "Thunderbolts" already had its entire plot based on how there are no more Avengers and therefore no more heroes to help people while disregarding all of the established heroes, many of them (former) Avengers, currently residing on Earth - including Carol -, and I don't really expect continuity to become better than that.

Another thing - does anyone think we'll ever learn what happened to any of the remaining Eternals? Or will their entire movie be reduced to the "There's now a Celestial Island"  plot point from "Brave New World" with no follow-up? It's a theoretical question for me since the only Eternals I really liked were Druig, who's more of a secondary character, and Ikaris, who's dead, but I'm wondering. Also the entire Dane&Blade thing, will that ever come up again?

Edited September 27 by brickbride

[JeanGreyForever]

3 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

This is not where I expected the conversation to go, lol. I've heard a lot of comic fans who've been with it for decades tend not to like Jean as much compared to the people who mainly know her from the movies or ancillary material. From what I've heard she kind of suffers from that "immortal cosmic entity-powered character starts to slip from a person to a plot device" issue a few of the other heavy-hitters fall prey to.

I won't weigh in too much but I'm sure anyone reading my posts can tell which of the marvel ladies I like most in that regard.

It's always funny to me that MCU Tony's attempts to prevent future violence and weapons end up doing significantly more damage than had Stark not tried it. There's a neat theme there, but not one marvel explores in regards to Tony.

I actually don't mind Monica- she's not very interesting to me, but she's not actively bad for the character or franchise, which for the phase 4 heroes is somehow a win. That said, I don't think she has many big fans, and given the lack of popularity of The Marvels I wouldn't be surprised if she's just a background character, or maybe there's a short line where she meets Carol in the X-men universe and Carol's like "wow I can't believe you got trapped in this universe when x event happened" and the audience is just sort of expected to go with it.

Oh, man, I'm actually not so sure now, unless they WANT us to root for doom. They already have to deal with RDJ's likeability and the fact that almost every remaining MCU character is either disliked, has been damaged over time (Thor and Hulk), or is just a complete unknown to most of the audience. Killing the Samvengers could cause cheers in some theatres. I didn't think about the risk to the thunderbolts, but hopefully they'll be safe. The A-team should be, given how much they seem to want to build up Yelena and Sentry. And I doubt the B-team storyline, if we even get one, will be all that high-stakes to get character deaths.

I think that's the plan here. Save Tobey and Hugh for secret wars and make a post-credits of Loki recruiting them.

I personally think Loki season 2 specifically is the best marvel show on disney+ and probably the best post-endgame Marvel Studios project besides Thunderbolts. The last two episodes in particular are some of the most emotional moments in the entire MCU and bring his character to such a perfect place. The Kang stuff isn't bad either- Kang isn't some big bad, it's more esoteric than that, but this show did a much better job selling the idea that a Kang COULD be a thanos level threat than Quandumbania did, and yet simultaneously by the end that Kang doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things.

Which ironically would be much closer to the comics- Johnny is absolutely the type of guy who could make a reckless mistake while showing off for the cameras, and Nitro is the one who blows up the school in the comics.

Yeah, the $10 price point is really nice. The 2016 bike was fairly oversized, but at $10 with two figures this one HAS to be a good size. (Though I hope he gets a villain instead of spider-man, a lot of kids are going to end up thinking GR Is a bad guy from this set and his spooky look.)

That's really not so much a Jean thing as it is a Phoenix thing. Particularly during the period when Marvel cut off ties between Jean and the Phoenix to try and bring the Phoenix over into the Avengers side of things where just about every Avenger was hosting it. I think they did some retcon where Phoenix turned out to be Thor's mother as well. Since then, they've remerged Jean and the Phoenix into one entity, as was originally the case way back in the 70s when it was only ever one individual. Like Wanda, Jean has been victim to a lot of editorial mishandling in the comics. Marvel in the 2000s was also stuck with an extremely misogynistic EIC (Joe Q) who pretty much sidelined all the classic major female characters (Jean, Wanda, Wasp, Storm, MJ, etc.) while having an extreme vendetta against redheads (Jean and MJ). What's crazy to me is that the MCU saw all the worst things that happened to Wanda in the 2000s and decided to double down on that for the MCU, hence the current state we're in.

They tried to link Ultron's creation with Tony's PTSD from seeing the Chitauri invasion and Thanos, but I never felt it was handled all that well. There's a reason Ultron was considered a dud, both the character and the movie. And it's interesting how Ultron and Tony's creation of him is basically never referenced again.

I liked Monica in the comics from the 80s, when she was the Avengers team leader. I found her bland in WandaVision and just filler, especially since she had no real connection to either of the two title characters. Never seen The Marvels so can't comment on her there but it doesn't look promising. She's a character Marvel has sorta made an effort to push and I think the plan was that when Captain Marvel eventually retired, they'd have Monica take over the mantle for representation points. But the problem was that Captain Marvel herself failed to take off so why would a potential replacement be any better received. 

Hulk might still have some saving grace from the new Spider-Man movie. Thor seems completely dead as a character and I haven't seen any online interest in his being brought back. Not surprising also that talks of Thor 5 have more or less died down too. I feel like Thor's only significance will be for a Loki reunion and potentially a reunion with Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans, but that's it, because the audience seems over him. GOTG is still a strong brand but I question how prominent Star-Lord can be without anyone else from his team. Thunderbolts had the best critical reception of the three MCU movies this year and probably the best critical reception of any MCU movie since GOTG3, so that might shield the B-list Thunderbolts. Also the director is supposed to helm the X-Men reboot so if he's in charge of the MCU's next big franchise (I say that with a grain of salt considering FF was considered to be that too), they might not want to sideline his characters and alienate him. 

Here's hoping. Tobey Maguire and Hugh Jackman are long overdue for a film together. Frankly, I think they should give Tom Holland a rest in these Avengers movies. He's already allowed his own solo movies so hope Tobey and maybe Andrew get their time to shine.

I might have to check out Loki S2 then. I know it'll probably be required watching for Doomsday anyway considering the new status quo for Loki. It's been hard for me to muster any interest in any of the recent Disney+ shows. I actually stopped after Loki S1 and only watched Hawkeye some years after it debuted. I was never a fan of the MCU Hawkeye which is why that was the first MCU show I skipped but I heard good things about Kate Bishop and the Yelena content turned out to be a great segue into Thunderbolts all this time later.

The original planned crossover movie between the X-Men and FF seemed like a more accurate portrayal of the Civil War event from the comics, minus Cap and Iron Man. The superhuman registration was more along the lines of the mutant registration act from what I remember. 

With the price of the set, I can't imagine more than 2 characters and with how Lego's been functioning these days, I'm almost surprised we're even getting 2 minifigs for that price.

 

[Mandalorianknight]

16 hours ago, brickbride said:

As to your first idea: I'm not invested in the Samvengers but some of them would be a lot stronger than your average Thunderbolt. Like, say, Kamala or Billy. Thor if he's still around. Hulk has been established as pretty much unkillable. And Sentry is by far the most powerful of the Thunderbolts. So, what - Doom somehow kills or subdues all the powerful opponents, and then the remaining Thunderbolts eventually defeat him by kicking and punching? I'd absolutely watch an entire movie about John Walker, but it sounds unrealistic to me.

I don't actually think Kamala or Billy have been in any of the story leaks so far- not to get too into it, but I know we had:

Spoiler

Some concept art of them meeting with Star Lord and White Vision, but based on the leaks for Doomsday's plot it seems like they'll be Secret Wars characters with Star-Lord trying to find anyone he can to stop Doom.

As for the second part... sort of, yeah, that's what I was guessing. Doom kills or subdues a number of samvengers, somehow subdues or whammies the three heavy-hitters, and in Secret Wars they have to find a way to stop him besides brute strength. (Though my guess would be it's Wolverine and Tobey Maguire leading the charge rather than John) I think it could be a neat story, and if doom Whammies the heavy hitters it would fit with his Thor Corps in the 2015 secret wars storyline.

I may try to give Agatha a watch. I've heard good things, but I've also heard it's more of a semi-musical, witchy, halloween-y adventure show, and none of that stuff really appeals to me. It doesn't sound bad, just not like what I like to see in my superhero stories.

13 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

That's really not so much a Jean thing as it is a Phoenix thing. Particularly during the period when Marvel cut off ties between Jean and the Phoenix to try and bring the Phoenix over into the Avengers side of things where just about every Avenger was hosting it. I think they did some retcon where Phoenix turned out to be Thor's mother as well. Since then, they've remerged Jean and the Phoenix into one entity, as was originally the case way back in the 70s when it was only ever one individual. 

Ok, yeah, that's what I'd heard- she kind of just got turned into a vessel for Phoenix rather than staying an actual character. People were bringing it up when she got added to rivals as Phoenix and was kind of a basic character.

16 hours ago, brickbride said:

Another thing - does anyone think we'll ever learn what happened to any of the remaining Eternals? Or will their entire movie be reduced to the "There's now a Celestial Island"  plot point from "Brave New World" with no follow-up? It's a theoretical question for me since the only Eternals I really liked were Druig, who's more of a secondary character, and Ikaris, who's dead, but I'm wondering. Also the entire Dane&Blade thing, will that ever come up again?

We might get a throwaway line about how Doom wiped them out, maybe with one or two of the cheaper actors surving and popping up in the final fight, but the eternals suffer from the double hit of being a low-performing movie and containing some very famous and expensive actors.

13 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

Hulk might still have some saving grace from the new Spider-Man movie. Thor seems completely dead as a character and I haven't seen any online interest in his being brought back. Not surprising also that talks of Thor 5 have more or less died down too. I feel like Thor's only significance will be for a Loki reunion and potentially a reunion with Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans, but that's it, because the audience seems over him. GOTG is still a strong brand but I question how prominent Star-Lord can be without anyone else from his team. Thunderbolts had the best critical reception of the three MCU movies this year and probably the best critical reception of any MCU movie since GOTG3, so that might shield the B-list Thunderbolts. Also the director is supposed to helm the X-Men reboot so if he's in charge of the MCU's next big franchise (I say that with a grain of salt considering FF was considered to be that too), they might not want to sideline his characters and alienate him. 

Here's hoping. Tobey Maguire and Hugh Jackman are long overdue for a film together. Frankly, I think they should give Tom Holland a rest in these Avengers movies. He's already allowed his own solo movies so hope Tobey and maybe Andrew get their time to shine.

I might have to check out Loki S2 then. I know it'll probably be required watching for Doomsday anyway considering the new status quo for Loki. It's been hard for me to muster any interest in any of the recent Disney+ shows. I actually stopped after Loki S1 and only watched Hawkeye some years after it debuted. I was never a fan of the MCU Hawkeye which is why that was the first MCU show I skipped but I heard good things about Kate Bishop and the Yelena content turned out to be a great segue into Thunderbolts all this time later.

With the price of the set, I can't imagine more than 2 characters and with how Lego's been functioning these days, I'm almost surprised we're even getting 2 minifigs for that price.

They might revive monster hulk, but I don't know if it'll be enough- personally I'll be happy if he turns back into Hulk, but they can't redeem Mark Ruffalo's Bruce if that makes sense. Thor I think they actually could manage to claw back, especially given how much Hemsworth loves the character and recognizes the issues with L&T, but it needed a solo movie BEFORE doomsday to fix things. The Russos could play him just like infinity war (when he was at his best IMO), and I'd be happy to see it, but it would still be jarring on a character level (Also, are we just going to ignore his daughter? What's the movie going to do about that? Just another poorly thought out plotline that's going either get retconned, forgotten, or otherwise thrown away). I hope the Thunderbolts are safe, but them shifting the director to X-men worries me as it implies he won't be returning to his team.

Good news then, as I don't believe Tom's been rumored for doomsday at all. As much as it would be a nostalgia-driven cash grab, I can't help but think that Hugh/Tobey/RDJ iron man would be the best Big Three for secret wars marvel has left.

I don't think there's much good in the disney+ stuff after Loki S2 anyway- the only one I watched all the way through was DDBA, because the netflix show is the best marvel project ever put to screen, but while I had some hope in the first episode, by the end it was clear they had no idea what they were doing with either the plot or Matt and Wilson as characters. I still don't understand kingpin's plan, or why Matt's immediate reaction to the events of the last episode isn't "go tell literally anyone in the state or federal government". They act like Kingpin's the emperor of the world, not holding a municipal position. Not to mention all the other character assassinations- Matt himself, Karen, Fisk, etc. Matt's mom is alive and he apparently just doesn't care whatsoever. He's given up on his catholicism in all but name at some point as well, as well as any pretense of Matt Murdock being blind in the normal way. And he manages to make significantly more a mockery of court procedure than in S2 of the netflix show while receiving significantly fewer consequences for it. The three big Daredevil things are Religion, Law, and his blindness and they played really fast and loose with all three. I didn't watch Ironheart or Echo but I heard they were worse (the stuff I've heard about ironheart sounds almost parodical), and can't even remember any of the other shows.

Yeah even if the second fig really is just another spider-man it's nice that there's two, but I do hope it ends up being some form of villain, even a re-used one.

[BrickBob Studpants]

1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I may try to give Agatha a watch. I've heard good things, but I've also heard it's more of a semi-musical, witchy, halloween-y adventure show, and none of that stuff really appeals to me.

It‘s a really good show in my opinion and my favourite MCU show besides Loki  What turned it from a good show to one of my favourites is episode 7, particularly one sequence. Too bad we won‘t get sets or CMF figures based on the show, but at least we have Agatha herself!

[Swordy]

Hot take: I like most of the cast announcements for Doomsday and I’m excited to see them all, interacting and quipping. The recent potential leak of the character designs (where Thor, interestingly, has gold plating and Mystique has her long-overdue white suit) gets me excited for new minifigures. I’m resigned to the fact that Doomsday will be a total mess, but I hope to have some fun watching my favourites team-up.

For Disney+ shows, I loved Loki, then Wandavision and Hawkeye are tied for second. I’m probably going to try out FatWS since I liked John Waker so much, but I avoided that show for so long because of Sam’s “Do better” speech. I’m intrigued enough by the prospect of Wonder Man to look into it, and Vision Quest can’t come soon enough. I will abstain from Agatha All Along, sorry (witchcraft and horror just ain’t my thing). If there’s any other D+ shows I need to see, let me know.

15 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

Thor seems completely dead as a character and I haven't seen any online interest in his being brought back.

Oh really? Then hi there, hello. Consider this a single count of online interest in Thor being brought back. 
I agree, though. I think the Thor movies worked best with Loki, and without him there’s not much left other than stupid humor with Korg. (I say this as someone who liked a lot of aspects of Thor: Love and Thornder.) I’d say Infinity War did more to kill interest in the Thor franchise by sacrificing all the people surrounding Thor just to prop up Thanos. Thor is just not an interesting character outside of the Asgard setting, which is the opposite of how I feel about Loki. All of that being said, my hope is that Chris Hemsworth gets a proper sendoff to the character after he fights alongside the X-Men and Fantastic Four; such marvelous team-ups shouldn’t be reserved for mere LEGO games, after all.

 

Hear me out: imagine our only LEGO Doctor Doom next year is in the Daily Bugle…

[JeanGreyForever]

23 minutes ago, Swordy said:

For Disney+ shows, I loved Loki, then Wandavision and Hawkeye are tied for second. I’m probably going to try out FatWS since I liked John Waker so much, but I avoided that show for so long because of Sam’s “Do better” speech. I’m intrigued enough by the prospect of Wonder Man to look into it, and Vision Quest can’t come soon enough. I will abstain from Agatha All Along, sorry (witchcraft and horror just ain’t my thing). If there’s any other D+ shows I need to see, let me know.

Oh really? Then hi there, hello. Consider this a single count of online interest in Thor being brought back. 
I agree, though. I think the Thor movies worked best with Loki, and without him there’s not much left other than stupid humor with Korg. (I say this as someone who liked a lot of aspects of Thor: Love and Thornder.) I’d say Infinity War did more to kill interest in the Thor franchise by sacrificing all the people surrounding Thor just to prop up Thanos. Thor is just not an interesting character outside of the Asgard setting, which is the opposite of how I feel about Loki. All of that being said, my hope is that Chris Hemsworth gets a proper sendoff to the character after he fights alongside the X-Men and Fantastic Four; such marvelous team-ups shouldn’t be reserved for mere LEGO games, after all.

 

Hear me out: imagine our only LEGO Doctor Doom next year is in the Daily Bugle…

WandaVision was my favorite and surprisingly Hawkeye came next. I enjoyed that one a lot more than I thought, especially with the holiday season being utilized in the setting. This is coming from someone who's always found the MCU Hawkeye to be a bore which is why I skipped the show when it first came out. FatWS was a real letdown. Maybe because I've never had an attachment to the lead two characters (neither of whom are lead-worthy imo) and I only watched out of interest for the return of secondary characters like Zemo and Sharon Carter. Both of whom never appeared since then, which really surprised me as they set-up a new status quo for Sharon and Zemo seemed like an obvious choice for Thunderbolts. John Walker was really good though so if you can't find some sort of compilation of all his scenes from the show on YouTube or somewhere, then I would recommend watching just for him. But be warned that you're going to be sifting through a lot of superfluous material just to get to him. I was on my phone for much of that show.

People did seem to resonate the most with the Thor/Loki dynamic and it's pretty telling that Loki was brought back almost instantly after his death. Ironically enough, Infinity War was probably my favorite depiction of MCU Thor and when he was the most interesting. But I agree with you that it came at the cost of killing off his entire supporting cast, which I think also exposed the fact that Thor isn't really that interesting in the movies without people to play off of. But I always thought MCU Thor was a very poor imitation of the comics. Chris Hemsworth is more eye candy than an actual actor so he just comes across like a frat boy/male model impersonating Thor. He lacks the regality or noble character that radiated off of comic Thor. Wasn't a fan of Hemsworth's Thor look either since his hair wasn't as sleek, he had facial hair, and lacked a helmet.

I think we'll be spared that possibility simply because sets on a film titled Doomsday couldn't possibly go without including Doom himself. He's already being promoted by Disney/Marvel now so they clearly aren't hiding him.

2 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I don't actually think Kamala or Billy have been in any of the story leaks so far- not to get too into it, but I know we had:

  Hide contents

Some concept art of them meeting with Star Lord and White Vision, but based on the leaks for Doomsday's plot it seems like they'll be Secret Wars characters with Star-Lord trying to find anyone he can to stop Doom.

I may try to give Agatha a watch. I've heard good things, but I've also heard it's more of a semi-musical, witchy, halloween-y adventure show, and none of that stuff really appeals to me. It doesn't sound bad, just not like what I like to see in my superhero stories.

Ok, yeah, that's what I'd heard- she kind of just got turned into a vessel for Phoenix rather than staying an actual character. People were bringing it up when she got added to rivals as Phoenix and was kind of a basic character.

They might revive monster hulk, but I don't know if it'll be enough- personally I'll be happy if he turns back into Hulk, but they can't redeem Mark Ruffalo's Bruce if that makes sense. Thor I think they actually could manage to claw back, especially given how much Hemsworth loves the character and recognizes the issues with L&T, but it needed a solo movie BEFORE doomsday to fix things. The Russos could play him just like infinity war (when he was at his best IMO), and I'd be happy to see it, but it would still be jarring on a character level (Also, are we just going to ignore his daughter? What's the movie going to do about that? Just another poorly thought out plotline that's going either get retconned, forgotten, or otherwise thrown away). I hope the Thunderbolts are safe, but them shifting the director to X-men worries me as it implies he won't be returning to his team.

Good news then, as I don't believe Tom's been rumored for doomsday at all. As much as it would be a nostalgia-driven cash grab, I can't help but think that Hugh/Tobey/RDJ iron man would be the best Big Three for secret wars marvel has left.

I don't think there's much good in the disney+ stuff after Loki S2 anyway- the only one I watched all the way through was DDBA, because the netflix show is the best marvel project ever put to screen, but while I had some hope in the first episode, by the end it was clear they had no idea what they were doing with either the plot or Matt and Wilson as characters. I still don't understand kingpin's plan, or why Matt's immediate reaction to the events of the last episode isn't "go tell literally anyone in the state or federal government". They act like Kingpin's the emperor of the world, not holding a municipal position. Not to mention all the other character assassinations- Matt himself, Karen, Fisk, etc. Matt's mom is alive and he apparently just doesn't care whatsoever. He's given up on his catholicism in all but name at some point as well, as well as any pretense of Matt Murdock being blind in the normal way. And he manages to make significantly more a mockery of court procedure than in S2 of the netflix show while receiving significantly fewer consequences for it. The three big Daredevil things are Religion, Law, and his blindness and they played really fast and loose with all three. I didn't watch Ironheart or Echo but I heard they were worse (the stuff I've heard about ironheart sounds almost parodical), and can't even remember any of the other shows.

Yeah even if the second fig really is just another spider-man it's nice that there's two, but I do hope it ends up being some form of villain, even a re-used one.

Spoiler

Young Avengers were in very early concept art that was also mentioned in this thread, but I haven't heard anything about them being in the movie since. I feel like they were probably dropped, just because audiences don't really know or care about these Disney+ characters. She-Hulk was also in the concept art (in that Hulk medieval village) but it doesn't seem like she's in the movie either.

I've also skipped Agatha. I actually like witch shows but it seems really out of sync with the rest of the MU. I heard it got good reviews but also low audience views, so it seems like it mostly resonated with non-Marvel fans. 

Yes and no. Jean was Phoenix from the mid-70s to early 80s, and was the first female cosmic superhero, designed to be the female equivalent of Thor, Silver Surfer, and Doctor Strange. She was even supposed to fight Thor and beat him but Marvel editorial took offense at Thor being beaten by a woman so they nixed that plot and had her fight Firelord (a Galactus herald) instead since he was on Thor's power level and it could establish the same thing. Then she was killed off in 1981 because the character accidentally destroying an inhabited planet hadn't been planned but it was considered too controversial to leave a genocidal character as a superhero. She was brought back in 1986 by establishing a retcon that she hadn't ever been Phoenix but was replaced by a cosmic entity. And this was the status quo up until the early 2000s when she and the Phoenix became reintegrated again. So for much of her history, she wasn't really a vessel for the Phoenix or connected to it, particularly during the 90s. Even when she did become Phoenix again, Jean was killed off almost immediately and left in character limbo for more than a decade, along with several other prominent female characters (once more, going back to Joe Quesada who had a real hatred for redheads since he also engineered the destruction of Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson's marriage). When she finally came back for good, she was separated from the Phoenix since it was now considered part of the Avengers brand. Only in the last two years or so did they establish her as Phoenix again. So while she's had a very choppy continuity, it isn't that different from many other characters who also suffer from lots of retcons and editorial changes.

I didn't even know Thor had a daughter and this is the first I've heard of that lol. Yeah that might be an easy thing to skip or overlook then. I'm wondering if Hulk's son will ever be mentioned either. They only seem interested in Black Panther's son, for the purpose of replacing him with a legacy character, since I don't think Shuri has taken off as the new Black Panther. Marvel likes to reuse directors. Shang-Chi director was supposed to do Kang Dynasty but when that was cancelled, he got put on Spider-Man: Brand New Day instead. WandaVision director did the FF movie. So I think it's not necessarily a bad sign for Thunderbolts that its director is signed on to do the X-Men movie. However, I did see that Thunderbolts is apparently one of the least streamed Disney+ MCU movies since it joined the service, either the least or second to least watched. People were saying that doesn't bode well for the movie, since even BNW, with a much worse reputation, has had more views. Even though Thunderbolts had the best critical reviews, the fact that it's grossed the least and is getting low viewership indicates to me that a sequel is unlikely.

I've heard some rumors about Tom. Nothing overly substantial but also nothing to indicate he's definitely not in it.

I loved the Netflix Daredevil show and that's exactly why I didn't bother watching Born Again on Disney+. I figured they were going to ruin the property somehow and I heard really lukewarm reactions to it online. Daredevil's Catholicism being toned down or nonexistent doesn't surprise me because Disney likes to avoid anything even remotely religious (they scrubbed all the religious elements from their live-action adaptation of A Wrinkle in Time and pretend The Hunchback of Notre Dame doesn't exist anymore). Wasn't Matt's mom alive in the Netflix show as well? As a nun? All I know about Ironheart is that Mephisto was the big bad in it which really confuses me because why would a supernatural devil character be in a show about a technological-powered hero? Echo I heard was one of the least watched Disney+ shows (and I'm guessing Ironheart got even less views than that) and I can believe that because no one ever really talks about it. The only times I've heard Echo referenced are in this thread and how she managed to get a minifigure despite being from a rated-R show and why that was a fluke out of Lego's control.

Have there been any Spider-Man sets without some sort of Spider character (Peter, Miles, or Gwen)?

[JeanGreyForever]

The Raimi trilogy is back in theaters this weekend (and next weekend) and so far, the first two films were both packed houses. Last year, when all 8 live-action Spider-Man movies were re-released in theaters, the Raimi trilogy easily outgrossed the rest of the films and the fact that they're getting a second re-release only a year later is a testament to their popularity. This shows that there's very much an audience for these films still and I hope that means Lego will give us more sets like the subway one.

The first Spider-Man in particular could use so many set remakes, like the World Unity Festival scene where the Goblin attacks. Minifigs for Green Goblin, MJ, and Harry should be a must. And if we can't get a comic book version of black suit Spidey, we should at least get the option of Spider-Man 3's black suit in minifigure form.

[Mandalorianknight]

5 hours ago, Swordy said:

For Disney+ shows, I loved Loki, then Wandavision and Hawkeye are tied for second. I’m probably going to try out FatWS since I liked John Waker so much, but I avoided that show for so long because of Sam’s “Do better” speech

Going from Thunderbolts to TFATWS is going to be a hell of a ride for you, especially as a John fan. You're going to come out of that show quite angry at Sam and probably Bucky as well. (Honestly Bucky might be worse to John- though I still think Sam's character is hit harder since he used to be a veteran counselor and his character assassination is kind of total. Aside from being weirdly bloodthirsty about John, Bucky's character is relatively fine.)

 Speaking of John Walker, I've been trying to collect most of his other thunderbolts* merch and am continually disappointed that he doesn't get a minifigure, and even if one arrives in Doomsday, it'll have that stupid beret instead of the Captain America helmet/cowl.

1 hour ago, JeanGreyForever said:

*cut for space*

I guess I should have expected that you would know, with the username and all. That is a wild history, but as you say, a lot of the cosmic heroes have had choppy recton-heavy histories like that.

It's not his biological daughter, so they could at least have a bit of wiggle room and say he brought her to her relatives or something, but yeah, he adopts Gorr's daughter at the end of L&T. As for the directors, I don't know. Shang-chi's director being put on Kang Dynasty and BND both comes with the caveat that we didn't get a Shang-Chi 2, and similarly Wandavision didn't get a direct sequel. Add on the disney+ stuff and unfortunately I think we've seen the last of the best team active in the MCU.

I had some hope, but yeah, don't watch it. And yeah, that's what I'd meant. His mom is in fact alive in the netflix show, which he figures out, and the show sets her up as the new Father Lantom role in his life... only for born again to just forget she existed. I think he references once that he didn't know his mom was alive until he was an adult, which if anything is MORE infuriating, because it means the writers remembered, but not only wouldn't include her, they couldn't even bother to throw in a line about her being away on a mission trip, or start a scene with Matt finishing up a phone call with her or something. I have a lot of rewrite ideas for the show, but I think ultimately the main thematic fix would be that you don't throw away the whole "kingpin ran for mayor because he actually wants to do good" thing. We did the "kingpin pretends to be good and cooperative but is actually plotting a takeover" thing last season. I think it would be a lot cooler if Matt had to reconcile with the fact that Kingpin actually was turning over a new leaf (something he's done in the comics before) and has to find it within himself to forgive him and work together to face threats like Muse (who was criminally wasted in this show). I did see that Ironheart made a deal with mephisto, which is hilarious to me, and as for echo the main thing I know about that is Kingpin's weird hawkeye russian mob criminal empire is taken down by Echo using the power of family to make Kingpin feel bad about being a mobster.

I don't believe so, but it doesn't have to be a spider-man set. We still get generic avengers/marvel sets on occasion, including the last ghost rider set.

 

I actually was interested in how many generic marvel, non-spider-man sets we get per year, and this is what I came up with for the theme after the introduction of the Infinity Saga branding (which helps keep avengers on shelves in their MCU variants, meaning we don't get stuff like the avengers game sets). As it turns out, aside from mechs, the only two we've had since the Infinity Saga sets started were both this year- the Iron Man car and Hulk truck. I hope they continue with comic-based sets into the future, especially with this mini modular system they've been making.

[brickbride]

14 hours ago, Swordy said:

I will abstain from Agatha All Along, sorry (witchcraft and horror just ain’t my thing). If there’s any other D+ shows I need to see, let me know.

I greatly dislike horror and I loved Agatha so I wouldn't classify it as a horror show. MoM was about borderline for me, Agatha is not like that. Just give it a try!

17 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Also, are we just going to ignore his daughter? What's the movie going to do about that?

If only someone were putting together a team consisting of younger versions of the old Avengers characters.

Edited September 28 by brickbride

[JeanGreyForever]

On 9/28/2025 at 12:42 AM, Mandalorianknight said:

Speaking of John Walker, I've been trying to collect most of his other thunderbolts* merch and am continually disappointed that he doesn't get a minifigure, and even if one arrives in Doomsday, it'll have that stupid beret instead of the Captain America helmet/cowl.

I guess I should have expected that you would know, with the username and all. That is a wild history, but as you say, a lot of the cosmic heroes have had choppy recton-heavy histories like that.

It's not his biological daughter, so they could at least have a bit of wiggle room and say he brought her to her relatives or something, but yeah, he adopts Gorr's daughter at the end of L&T. As for the directors, I don't know. Shang-chi's director being put on Kang Dynasty and BND both comes with the caveat that we didn't get a Shang-Chi 2, and similarly Wandavision didn't get a direct sequel. Add on the disney+ stuff and unfortunately I think we've seen the last of the best team active in the MCU.

I had some hope, but yeah, don't watch it. And yeah, that's what I'd meant. His mom is in fact alive in the netflix show, which he figures out, and the show sets her up as the new Father Lantom role in his life... only for born again to just forget she existed. I think he references once that he didn't know his mom was alive until he was an adult, which if anything is MORE infuriating, because it means the writers remembered, but not only wouldn't include her, they couldn't even bother to throw in a line about her being away on a mission trip, or start a scene with Matt finishing up a phone call with her or something. I have a lot of rewrite ideas for the show, but I think ultimately the main thematic fix would be that you don't throw away the whole "kingpin ran for mayor because he actually wants to do good" thing. We did the "kingpin pretends to be good and cooperative but is actually plotting a takeover" thing last season. I think it would be a lot cooler if Matt had to reconcile with the fact that Kingpin actually was turning over a new leaf (something he's done in the comics before) and has to find it within himself to forgive him and work together to face threats like Muse (who was criminally wasted in this show). I did see that Ironheart made a deal with mephisto, which is hilarious to me, and as for echo the main thing I know about that is Kingpin's weird hawkeye russian mob criminal empire is taken down by Echo using the power of family to make Kingpin feel bad about being a mobster.

I don't believe so, but it doesn't have to be a spider-man set. We still get generic avengers/marvel sets on occasion, including the last ghost rider set.

 

I actually was interested in how many generic marvel, non-spider-man sets we get per year, and this is what I came up with for the theme after the introduction of the Infinity Saga branding (which helps keep avengers on shelves in their MCU variants, meaning we don't get stuff like the avengers game sets). As it turns out, aside from mechs, the only two we've had since the Infinity Saga sets started were both this year- the Iron Man car and Hulk truck. I hope they continue with comic-based sets into the future, especially with this mini modular system they've been making.

I feel like they'll either skip the beret or use the beret as an excuse to skip John altogether so they don't have to come up with a new hair/beret mold.

Lol, with my username I felt I would be a bad fan if I didn't muster some sort of defense for her. I'll just say that if you're a fan of Wanda, then you'd probably like Jean because MCU Wanda took heavy inspiration from Jean. In many ways, she's more like comic Jean than comic Wanda. And comic Wanda also has a very convoluted history with at least 3 parental retcons and her powers regularly getting retconned throughout different eras to fit the needs of certain storylines. Wanda is basically the Jean of the Avengers and that includes the messy love triangles, which the MCU actually didn't incorporate. And Wanda's ultimate fate in MoM (turning evil, but redeeming herself through suicide since she can't control her powers) is also more or less stolen from Jean's ending in The Dark Phoenix Saga. That's part of why MoM was so unpopular, because the same antiquated storylines that Marvel used for Jean in the 80s and again in the 2000s (that powerful women go bonkers and have to be put down) was still being used in the 2020s.

Oh I see, that makes more sense because I didn't know Gorr had a daughter. Reminds me of how Wolverine adopted a Japanese girl in the comics and she was barely ever mentioned after that. With Thor, they'll probably just ignore her altogether. Shang-Chi's director was put on Kang Dynasty because I think the implication of the Shang-Chi end-credits scene was that Shang-Chi was connected to Kang. Same with Ms. Marvel. I believe Shang-Chi 2 would have been made after Kang Dynasty, but now we'll have to see where that goes. WandaVision was a special case because they announced from day one that it would be a single season series only. Each character's story would continue in different shows/movies. Wanda would continue in the Doctor Strange movies, Vision was supposed to show up in the now cancelled Armor Wars, and the twins were supposed to eventually end up in Young Avengers. Monica ended up in The Marvels and not sure if that was always the plan or if they only went ahead and boosted Monica to a lead because of the success of WandaVision. Agatha All Along was only greenlighted because WandaVision was such a success, particularly the Agatha character, and they tied in one of the twins there too.

Considering how limited the roles were for Karen and Foggy, it doesn't surprise me they wouldn't bring back a more minor character like Matt's mom. We still haven't seen Elektra since the Defenders. With Kingpin, there were lots of rumors that he was supposed to end up in the Spider-Man movies as a villain so they may have gone out of their way to keep him a villain in the show to not axe that potential. I had no idea the Echo show did that to defeat the mob empire lol. I can see why nobody talks about it now, besides the low audience ratings. Marvel fell into the trap of thinking that because they had some successes with turning Z-listers into A-Listers (like GOTG), that they could make spinoffs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry and turn them all into A-Listers in the public eye. Echo being one of the latest examples of this, along with the Eternals. 

Hopefully there's a chance then. And I'd definitely love to see more comic book sets. The problem is that so many characters have such specialized looks in their classic outfits that they would need new molds, like classic Hawkeye or classic Scarlet Witch.