Sebeus I Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Also, I've been looking for alternatives for Brickshelf, to host images, and Bricksafe seemed like a good candidate. However it seems Bricksafe isn't accepting any new users . Quote
Murdoch17 Posted January 27 Posted January 27 29 minutes ago, Sebeus I said: Also, I've been looking for alternatives for Brickshelf, to host images, and Bricksafe seemed like a good candidate. However it seems Bricksafe isn't accepting any new users . Well that's strange. I wonder why? I hope they don't go away too.... all my publicly-shared LDD files are on there! Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 27 Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Murdoch17 said: all my publicly-shared LDD files are on there! better generally don't trust any online provider and always keep private backups would be my recommendation. Quote
Toastie Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) 33 minutes ago, aFrInaTi0n said: always keep private backups would be my recommendation. I guess this is more about the link shared rather than having a backup. Once the links are broken, the shares are broken This will happen to +80% of my posts on EB - links to pictures (and programs/etc) gone. I do have all the backup copies here but do I want to update my posts? Maybe not ... But this is how it is, as you said. In essence, the net is and will remain volatile. Question is: If BrickShelf would "freeze in" (no more uploads, as it is since long with no additional users) then how much of an effort is it to remain as static "file system" on the web? I have no clue how that would work, just asking. Is BrickShelf running on a private computer? Could it be "copied" to another place? Again, I have zero clue regarding such things. Now, with regard to BrickSafe ... oh man. That would then affect the remaining links on my posts ... I was entertaining the idea of migrating from BShelf to BSafe, but having heard that ... hmmm Best, Thorsten Edited January 27 by Toastie Quote
KotZ Posted January 27 Posted January 27 4 minutes ago, Toastie said: I guess this is more about the link shared rather than having a backup. Once the links are broken, the shares are broken This will happen to +80% of my posts on EB - links to pictures (and programs/etc) gone. I do have all the backup copies here but do I want to update my posts? Maybe not ... But this is how it is, as you said. In essence, the net is and will remain volatile. Question is: If BrickShelf would "freeze in" (no more uploads, as it is since long with no additional users) then how much of an effort is it to remain as static "file system" on the web? I have no clue how that would work, just asking. Is BrickShelf running on a private computer? Could it be "copied" to another place? Again, I have zero clue regarding such things. Best, Thorsten I know Celeri had wondered if it's possible for BrickSafe to import Brickshelf's assets and absorb it, but that would probably involve buying the site, and who knows if BrickSafe wants to or even if able to do that financially. I'll probably go through and update my posts slowly for it. There's a lot of MOCs and threads I'd like to keep viewable (even if my builds were bad at the time, just to show I've grown), especially anything in BotBS, but also the Mafia games and Heroica quests I ran or QM'd. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 27 Posted January 27 For people using MAC to get their stuff from brickshelf via a script: https://github.com/timcourtney/brickshelf_downloader I guess Nathan had underestimated the costs for storage/acces for his 10gb/bricksafe-user - I mean Amazon S3 storage may be cheap, even with their auto-tiering - but it still costs. And basically there is no benefit for doing so - so huge kudos to Nathan for hosting bricksafe for us till now for free! .. I can understand this may easily sum up with the 7 million files being stored there & them possibly being in average huge in filesize.. (I guess you are also not caring and just uploading your images in the best quality, as the site offers the automatic resizing anyways, right?! :D) Quote
iragm Posted January 27 Posted January 27 This is one major reason that Eurobricks should mirror linked images @Jim As mentioned, it seems like Bricksafe is not accepting new users so I'm thinking it will likely go the same way that Brickshelf is going. Ideally someone would buy up these domains and store/backup the content. There is a ton of history here and archive.org is not an easy way to browse it. I would love to see an open source image hosting site dedicated to Lego stuff, and I can put up some cash and a bit of development effort to see it happen, but I would rather not be the primary dev on it. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Open Sources doesn't mean it is free of costs. But think of Rebrickable as a platform which is earning money with every sold MOC, which allowed Nathan to host bricksafe for free for this long time without any costs - I think he may just have realized it is costing him too much of not getting any benefit back. Please don't get me wrong on this, I am not mad as he closed the site for new members - I am more suprised he was offering this from the beginning, also my personal opinion is, the 10gb per user are waaaaaay too much and 1GB per user would have been more than enough (+ put some additional price plans for expands on top for power users contributing some money back for paying the service - would need to be a fair deal for both sides though..). Quote
Toastie Posted January 27 Posted January 27 2 hours ago, KotZ said: I'll probably go through and update my posts slowly for it. You mean migrate from BrickShelf to BrickSafe? If so, the latter may also become "unstable" in a foreseeable time, right? Best, Thorsten Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 27 Posted January 27 I think the one which may be too big to fail (but being out of mainly LEGO scope): flickr.. *sigh To add: Discord seems to persist all Images in the chats aswell & they can be shared externally... just thinking loud here *cough Quote
SpacePolice89 Posted January 27 Posted January 27 4 hours ago, Murdoch17 said: Well that's strange. I wonder why? I hope they don't go away too.... all my publicly-shared LDD files are on there! I have sent an e-mail to Nathan Thom and asked about the status of Bricksafe and new members joining. As soon as I get an answer I will post the information here. Quote
KotZ Posted January 27 Posted January 27 20 minutes ago, Toastie said: You mean migrate from BrickShelf to BrickSafe? If so, the latter may also become "unstable" in a foreseeable time, right? Best, Thorsten Nah, I still have time to find another site, and like you said, that one might be unstable sooner rather than later, but I can't see its sister site Rebrickable going down. There would be a lot of angry AFOLs. I'd rather not use Imgur because I absolutely loathe that site. Quote
icm Posted January 27 Posted January 27 @aFrInaTi0n: Thanks for making that Python script! That'll make it a lot easier to download my favorite galleries once I can find the time. Brickshelf was a big part of my childhood as a TFOL, and I still like to reverse-engineer builds from Brickshelf and then order parts for them. Quote
icm Posted January 27 Posted January 27 I don't know enough Python to judge for myself is this script is completely safe, but I trust you. Do you see any vulnerabilities or unsafe practices in that code? Just want to check before I run it on my computer. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Oh to add, I did not test it as I am not owning any Apple device :D - so all at one owns risk! but I would also hope it is fine - it was at least shared at some lego newsgroup and others mentioned it worked for them.. Quote
JesseNight Posted January 27 Posted January 27 6 hours ago, Toastie said: This will happen to +80% of my posts on EB - links to pictures (and programs/etc) gone. I do have all the backup copies here but do I want to update my posts? Maybe not ... But this is how it is, as you said. In essence, the net is and will remain volatile. Question is: If BrickShelf would "freeze in" (no more uploads, as it is since long with no additional users) then how much of an effort is it to remain as static "file system" on the web? I have no clue how that would work, just asking. Is BrickShelf running on a private computer? Could it be "copied" to another place? Again, I have zero clue regarding such things. Even if static, hosting costs money so someone will have to pay that bill. Therefore even if everyone is willing to pitch in, someone will have to manage this. So I guess the real question is... If the founder passed away, is there still someone with full access willing to do that? I guess not since we're at this point. Or maybe there is no one left and the provider just shuts it down. Quote
Celeri Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) 6 hours ago, KotZ said: I know Celeri had wondered if it's possible for BrickSafe to import Brickshelf's assets and absorb it, but that would probably involve buying the site, and who knows if BrickSafe wants to or even if able to do that financially. Not necessarily: I guess it should be possible to download BrickShelf user galleries just like aFrInaTi0n (has started doing it) and "translate" it into new user galleries in BrickSafe. I am not an expert, but I cannot se why it would not be possible with a little "coding magic" from a (very?) motivated coder. As for the online storage space it would require, this is another story... if BrickSafe is not allowing new accounts to be created, it is a bad sign indeed... Maybe we could try to establish contact with archive.org managers and tell them about what is going to happen to BrickShelf, and see if they can secure a "definitive" archive of the site before it goes down? Meanwhile, the first thing we could do by ourselves is to alllow users that are interested by keeping specific galleries (their own, or some that they love) in offline archives: this is what I am proposing to all of you right now, so don't be afraid! I have put online 3 of them, but I can also make ZIP archives that, when extracted, can be browsed either with Explorer/Finder or with any browser, just like the official site. Edited January 27 by Celeri Quote
KotZ Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Just a really stupid thought moving away from just Brickshelf, I know on this thread there was discussion of PayPal and similar to keep EB running without ads. I have no clue the cost it takes to run this site or something like Brickshelf, Bricksafe, etc., but if there's a certain amount of Patreon or donations to EB, would it ever be feasible for EB to become partially it's own photo hosting thing? I know there's already some limited amount for quick posts in threads, but I'm thinking at least for all the previous threads and topics that have been made that are going to have broken links due to BS going down. Obviously that would be a lot of work and probably not feasible but just throwing ideas out. Quote
Celeri Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) In my opinion, that could be done, but it is likely to need more time than that is available before BrickShelf: we would have to make enough people aware of the situation so that they can decide to help before the deadline. Crowdfunding operation can sometimes reach their goal in a few days or even hours, but it is not the most frequent situation... Edited January 27 by Celeri Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 27 Posted January 27 @KotZ I as a regular LEGO user would also wish for any new user to get s.th. like bricksafe & I also agree on that may have payed plans included for allowing to keep up such service - thing about such is: I as a user would also want to have that as stable and persistent available over time - but what if my future situation does not allow me to pay my previous plan? Also from the hoster perspective there the issues start to rise: you are getting more and more accounts (possibly people just creating new free plan accounts) where the expectation is to keep them available, but nobody wants to take the costs for this. Quote
iragm Posted January 27 Posted January 27 8 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said: Open Sources doesn't mean it is free of costs Of course not, but it allows other to contribute code and updates, and greatly reduces development costs. It also allows forks if the creator goes rogue. 5 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said: I have sent an e-mail to Nathan Thom and asked about the status of Bricksafe and new members joining. As soon as I get an answer I will post the information here. I emailed support @ bricksafe.com to offer help...do you have another email address? 2 hours ago, JesseNight said: Even if static, hosting costs money so someone will have to pay that bill. Therefore even if everyone is willing to pitch in, someone will have to manage this. I suspect (without seeing their bandwidth and disk usage) that the costs are not as high as you would think. Depending on the hosting provider, perhaps $100-200 a month, some of which can be offset with ads. I would front that cost, I spend more than that a month on plastic toys. 2 hours ago, JesseNight said: If the founder passed away, is there still someone with full access willing to do that? I guess not since we're at this point. Or maybe there is no one left and the provider just shuts it down. If you go to the brickshelf.com home page, it says that the estate will be shutting down the site. and that "Inquiries for purchasing brickshelf may be sent to support@brickshelf.com." I emailed them but I have not heard anything back, but I did not make an offer, I just asked what ballpark they were looking to get. Some free estimation tools (of dubious accuracy) suggest it's worth $1500-3500, which is on the upper end of what I would be willing to pay. 2 hours ago, KotZ said: Obviously that would be a lot of work and probably not feasible but just throwing ideas out. I would be willing to assist with a project to mirror linked images on the EB server or on a dedicated separate server. My main concern with Brickshelf going down is broken links from sites all over the web, new users can use something like Imgur or Flickr, both of which are fine (although Imgur is a cesspool). Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 27 Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, iragm said: I suspect (without seeing their bandwidth and disk usage) that the costs are not as high as you would think. It may not be the the diskspace, but the traffic - as we all know there may be plenty of places where people linked the images - take EB as an example - 1mb image may easily be shown 1000 times - directly 1 gb traffic you have to serve to the requests and also pay to your provider.. 16 minutes ago, iragm said: It also allows forks if the creator goes rogue. Even if the software can be forked there still would be the issue moved links. I think for brickshelf it would be nice if someone could aquire the domain and create an association and let it own the domain - this could assure it would be maintained and also people could freely participate with work or donations. Quote
iragm Posted January 28 Posted January 28 1 hour ago, aFrInaTi0n said: I think for brickshelf it would be nice if someone could aquire the domain and create an association and let it own the domain - this could assure it would be maintained and also people could freely participate with work or donations. I agree, this would be ideal. I do not have time to lead this project, but I would gladly contribute. Quote
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