[MOC] Twin I - Beam Trophy Trucks

[rinatfruggi]

While browsing YouTube and the Internet, I found a new type of suspension that I had never seen before. It called Twin I-Beam/ Twin Beam for not driven version, see image below

 

And Twin Traction Beam (TTB) for the driven version, see image below
  


I found that this type of suspension looks really cool and interesting. And i decide to try to build it. 
And this is what I got, a "family" of throphy trucks. Two with RWD and different steering setup and one 4WD version. 

 

 

 

Now i show to you some photos of this trucks. All this trucks have similar buggy motor placemet( thnx to Adria Blancafort for the idea)  and rear axle suspension setup - triangulated 4 link. 

 

1. RWD , two buggy motors and servo. 

More closer look of the front end

 

2. RWD, one buggy motor and servo. Its very-very similar to the black one, but have diifernt steering setup and a bit different setup of the  rear suspension arms. (mounted as close as possible to the middle) 

 

 

3. And the last one , but the most intersting one) 4WD , one buggy motor and servo. 
 

 

A bit closer look to the front suspension setup

At the end i can say, that this suspension work really good. It provides pretty big amount of travel, its pretty simple(rwd version), can be done in different scales and this something new)

A bit later i will add some outdoor footages.  And if you will be interested i can provide review about all of this trucks with comments (ENG, UKR, RUS).

 

 

 

 

 

sorry idk how to remove two last images. i try to edit and delete them, but this dont work.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by rinatfruggi
Delete unnecesary photo at the bottom

[Alex Ilea]

This is quite interesting. I could see a good aplication in fast lego vehicles, but more as a concept suspension. Is it more efficient than the standard we do?

[rinatfruggi]

9 minutes ago, Alex Ilea said:

This is quite interesting. I could see a good aplication in fast lego vehicles, but more as a concept suspension. Is it more efficient than the standard we do?

Yes, its good for the fast mocs. I tried to do crawler version but it not work good. 4WD is almost the same as indepndent one . But not driven vesrion provide more travel and response, it work''s really great, soft and bouncy.  
 
 

Edited September 2, 2023 by rinatfruggi

[gyenesvi]

Cool stuff, I have already seen someone building such a suspension before, maybe @paave?

Nice experiments, I like that you did different variations. How solid are these axles? In the first version, what's the purpose of the frontal structure built from tubes and axles? Can't that slide apart? The steering linkage is behind the axle center, right? The scrub radius seems large though..

[rinatfruggi]

9 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Cool stuff, I have already seen someone building such a suspension before, maybe @paave?

Nice experiments, I like that you did different variations. How solid are these axles? In the first version, what's the purpose of the frontal structure built from tubes and axles? Can't that slide apart? The steering linkage is behind the axle center, right? The scrub radius seems large though..

Yep, @paave build one.   This axles are pretty strong, i don't have situations where it disassembles while outdoor testing.  

About steering. This linkage is not steering rods , it is the radius arms . They prevent beams from moving back and forth. The steering rods postion in the front of the beams( the structture you are asked about). If  hit wheel in some hard  obstacle they can slide apart .But   during suspension cycle  and outdoor driving they holds good. I will add outdoor footage later.

[Daniel-99]

Interesting engineering problem you have tackled! Keep up improving the Twin Beam suspension!

[2GodBDGlory]

I was busy when I first saw this, and didn't have time to reply, but good job! I discovered the twin I-beam and twin traction beam suspensions myself a while back, and was fascinated! I eventually incorporated both designs into different MOCs of mine:

Spoiler

(First variant of five has I-beam, last of five has TTB)

(TTB)

It's definitely cool to see it in more performance-focused models! I love to see these being built

[rinatfruggi]

39 minutes ago, Daniel-99 said:

Interesting engineering problem you have tackled! Keep up improving the Twin Beam suspension!

Thanks)  I keep improvig this things, so i will update them.

9 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I was busy when I first saw this, and didn't have time to reply, but good job! I discovered the twin I-beam and twin traction beam suspensions myself a while back, and was fascinated! I eventually incorporated both designs into different MOCs of mine:

  Reveal hidden contents

(First variant of five has I-beam, last of five has TTB)

(TTB)

It's definitely cool to see it in more performance-focused models! I love to see these being built

Thank you! Wow, really strange why I didn't see your MOCs as I was trying to find any information about this lego interpretation of this suspension. 
If you can share any detailed pics,  i will appreciate! I will look to your models more carefully.

[Zerobricks]

Nice to see this type of suspension designed for practical use. But is it worth the extra complexity compared to the double wishbone one? Also I imagine that there is more side movement of the wheels due to higher angles as the suspension moved up and down? Also the wheels and tyres are not parallel to the ground which decreases traction and increases wear unless you use balloon tyres?

Edited September 6, 2023 by Zerobricks

[2GodBDGlory]

1 hour ago, rinatfruggi said:

Thanks)  I keep improvig this things, so i will update them.

Thank you! Wow, really strange why I didn't see your MOCs as I was trying to find any information about this lego interpretation of this suspension. 
If you can share any detailed pics,  i will appreciate! I will look to your models more carefully.

Thanks! I don't have any amazing pictures, I don't think, and the models are long-disassembled, but you can browse these Bricksafe folders if you want!

https://bricksafe.com/pages/2GodBDGlory/1995-ford-f-150
https://bricksafe.com/pages/2GodBDGlory/ford-f-series-7th-gen

[Lego Tom]

Ford used the twin I beam suspension for decades, starting I believe, back in the 50's or 60's so it really isn't new. And it wasn't very good either. They used king pins that were notorious for wearing out and were a pita to replace. Even a simple alignment required heating and bending the I beam to the proper angle. But it worked and was cheap to make. Of course none of that applies to a LEGO creation, so just consider this a sampling of the useless bits of information my brain contains.

[rinatfruggi]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:48 PM, Zerobricks said:

Nice to see this type of suspension designed for practical use. But is it worth the extra complexity compared to the double wishbone one? Also I imagine that there is more side movement of the wheels due to higher angles as the suspension moved up and down? Also the wheels and tyres are not parallel to the ground which decreases traction and increases wear unless you use balloon tyres?

Hi! Sorry for the long reply.  I thinks the complex one is steering, other things , i think even more simple.  Yes, the suspension changes camber and toe angles during the suspension cycle. At the ride hieght camber almost neutral , so there is no crititcal issues with traction. And yes, baloon tyres may will help a bit. Also i have added footage of the models.

On 9/2/2023 at 12:21 PM, Alex Ilea said:

This is quite interesting. I could see a good aplication in fast lego vehicles, but more as a concept suspension. Is it more efficient than the standard we do?

Hi, i have added footage with models , so you can look at them.

On 9/2/2023 at 1:21 PM, gyenesvi said:

Cool stuff, I have already seen someone building such a suspension before, maybe @paave?

Nice experiments, I like that you did different variations. How solid are these axles? In the first version, what's the purpose of the frontal structure built from tubes and axles? Can't that slide apart? The steering linkage is behind the axle center, right? The scrub radius seems large though..

 

On 9/6/2023 at 3:46 PM, Daniel-99 said:

Interesting engineering problem you have tackled! Keep up improving the Twin Beam suspension!

 

On 9/6/2023 at 4:20 PM, 2GodBDGlory said:

I was busy when I first saw this, and didn't have time to reply, but good job! I discovered the twin I-beam and twin traction beam suspensions myself a while back, and was fascinated! I eventually incorporated both designs into different MOCs of mine:

  Reveal hidden contents

(First variant of five has I-beam, last of five has TTB)

(TTB)

It's definitely cool to see it in more performance-focused models! I love to see these being built

 

On 9/6/2023 at 8:13 PM, Lego Tom said:

Ford used the twin I beam suspension for decades, starting I believe, back in the 50's or 60's so it really isn't new. And it wasn't very good either. They used king pins that were notorious for wearing out and were a pita to replace. Even a simple alignment required heating and bending the I beam to the proper angle. But it worked and was cheap to make. Of course none of that applies to a LEGO creation, so just consider this a sampling of the useless bits of information my brain contains.

Hi, i have added footage with models , so you can look at them.

[dustblue]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:48 PM, Zerobricks said:

Nice to see this type of suspension designed for practical use. But is it worth the extra complexity compared to the double wishbone one? Also I imagine that there is more side movement of the wheels due to higher angles as the suspension moved up and down? Also the wheels and tyres are not parallel to the ground which decreases traction and increases wear unless you use balloon tyres?

That's my thought too, a bit like tatra suspension. Definately cool though.

[rinatfruggi]

9 minutes ago, dustblue said:

That's my thought too, a bit like tatra suspension. Definately cool though.

Thanks) Yes,  looks a bit same with tatra suspension becouse camber angles. But works in a bit different way. Also you can find the footage and see how it perfoms!

Edited September 18, 2023 by rinatfruggi

[2GodBDGlory]

4 minutes ago, rinatfruggi said:

Thanks) Yes,  looks a bit same with tatra suspension becouse camber angles. But works in a bit different way. Also you can find the footage and see how it perfoms!

Yeah, and one of its advantages over Tatra is that its swingarms go almost all the way across the body instead of only halfway, so you don't get as much camber change. It is more complex, though, especially for driven axles

[rinatfruggi]

2 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Yeah, and one of its advantages over Tatra is that its swingarms go almost all the way across the body instead of only halfway, so you don't get as much camber change. It is more complex, though, especially for driven axles

Yep, agree wit that. 

[dustblue]

3 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Yeah, and one of its advantages over Tatra is that its swingarms go almost all the way across the body instead of only halfway, so you don't get as much camber change. It is more complex, though, especially for driven axles

good point, but you can still drive it like tatra right? didn't try but seems workable

[rinatfruggi]

2 minutes ago, dustblue said:

good point, but you can still drive it like tatra right? didn't try but seems workable

Tatra have own unique suspension design. Adn its more for the hevy duty trucks. 




Twin beam suspension is more cheaper solution for the Trophy trucks in compare with A-arm builds.

[dustblue]

10 minutes ago, rinatfruggi said:

Tatra have own unique suspension design. Adn its more for the hevy duty trucks. 




Twin beam suspension is more cheaper solution for the Trophy trucks in compare with A-arm builds.

Yes but in lego mocs it's mostly twin drive shaft for tatras I think, left side & right side driven by different set of motors. For your twin beam suspension I thought you can also use this method. Left & right wheels won't be aligned though(and that would be like real tatras).

[rinatfruggi]

10 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Yes but in lego mocs it's mostly twin drive shaft for tatras I think, left side & right side driven by different set of motors. For your twin beam suspension I thought you can also use this method. Left & right wheels won't be aligned though(and that would be like real tatras).

For my TTB suspension in AWD version i used one shaft but with offseted beams - drive shaft goes between them.  You can find id on the photos.


And for Tatra suspension i have found solition like this, and i want to try it later.

[2GodBDGlory]

59 minutes ago, dustblue said:

good point, but you can still drive it like tatra right? didn't try but seems workable

Well, not exactly. Here's a picture of a real-life one:

There's a universal joint shaft going directly into the differential housing, just like on a solid axle, and then drive is taken from that swingarm to the other one using an extra, central, universal joint. Does that make sense?

[Bensch55]

47 minutes ago, rinatfruggi said:

And for Tatra suspension i have found solition like this, and i want to try it later.

This (and similar systems) have been built a few times and there are 2 major issues with this:

1. (the smaller issue) the momentum of the driveline will actually act directly on your suspension, resulting in tilting (in extreme form)

2. your main driveshaft also has to act as pivot point for your suspension swings, resulting in more friction losses 

[rinatfruggi]

1 minute ago, Bensch55 said:

This (and similar systems) have been built a few times and there are 2 major issues with this:

1. (the smaller issue) the momentum of the driveline will actually act directly on your suspension, resulting in tilting (in extreme form)

2. your main driveshaft also has to act as pivot point for your suspension swings, resulting in more friction losses 

Thanks for this! I didn't even think about things like this

[2GodBDGlory]

It's definitely not an ideal setup, but if you want a Tatra setup in a very compact axle, it does work, and I don't think there's much you can do about those drawbacks

[rinatfruggi]

5 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

It's definitely not an ideal setup, but if you want a Tatra setup in a very compact axle, it does work, and I don't think there's much you can do about those drawbacks

i think we have a bit shiftep from topic about I-beams to the Tatra
So if have any ideas how to make beams better, will be apriciated) i want to create an " ideal" set up and bring them to the world of MOC's