Jump to content

Robert Cailliau

Eurobricks Vassals
  • Posts

    80
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Robert Cailliau

  1. That's funny Ambroise... So what I am seeing is the connection that lets normal tracks (system tracks) connect to Duplo tracks. I only have normal tracks from the time they had metal on them to conduct the electric power to the locomotive. That is no longer the case, so I'm out of my depth here. And my train would not run on Duplo tracks anyway since they need power. The system track dissatisfied me in that: (a) it had the problem of all electric trains that have power supplied through the rails: you cannot make a return loop without creating a short circuit (this was solved only by Märklin, using a topologically neutral rail at the price of having a conductor running down the middle), (b) the switches are ugly, but that is a problem of our universe and I'll put a page up about that too (I really have to work now...) (a) has been solved at the price of putting the power in the locomotive. I don't know about (b), I have not looked at Lego trains recently. Robert.
  2. Zephyr: I already replied to many of these questions a few months ago, but seeing these responses I have a few counter replies. I admit not reading everything in great detail when I posted my first item. I'll re-read. 8 & 9) I would not blame the parents. I would blame marketing, toy companies are pushing more complicated toys to younger children. So the intelligent trains were probably targeted towards 6 yr olds (e.g., set 2745 from 1996 is 3-6, while the newer trains are 2-5). Now some of the city sets are marketed to 5 yr olds. Not unique to Lego though, e.g., I recall playing with fisher price little people until 5+, but by 3 our kids were tired of them. All of the traditional toy companies have to compete with the tablet and video game effects. Oh, and just try to find a G rated movie in the theater these days. It's not easy being young any more. I could not agree more. Though I still believe parents have some responsibility in giving in to it all. 10) lego is bending backwards to idiot proof things. Put a coupler on both ends and it will cause problems, especially for a train that only goes one way. I think they have discovered that even if only 1% of the users are impacted, it costs more to let the problem linger- e.g., the finger nail groove added to jumper plates. Agree. It's a hard world for them too: people are never satisfied. But what grooves are you talking about? Jumper plates? 12) it used to be no, they did not, but lego is now providing some measurements to the LDraw community I believe. Good news. They are only necessary for parts with weird shapes though, for normal bricks and connectors finding the dimensions is easy. I saw your "second problem" I didn't take the time to understand the particular programming language, but I suspect you have a nested loop, so in one iteration you are extending more than one link. I suspect you are populating half of your matrix on one pass and then the other half on the second (but I don't have proof). I already came to that conclusion too, by watching the algorithm work: as it goes along line by line, each line that refers to a previous one gets the benefit of using what that one already found. Better even: as it progresses along a line cell by cell, the line gets benefits again. One thing that you could do to your code is to track the number of links it takes to reach a specific point. So instead of populating your matrix with "0", use "0" for first reachable, "1" for after one link, "2" for after two links, and so forth. And I did that too, (a long time ago). But I could not find a suitable proof, which is ultimately what I'm after. Then I re-wrote the program to get a "purist" version. The normal version (which you found) builds the next iteration by making a copy and then modifying the copy using data from that copy, therefore getting the benefits of its own modifications as it goes along. The purist version uses data only from the previous iteration, and it does take longer in that case! I.e. the purist version behaves more like what one would expect. I never got beyond 5 iterations needed, but I also never entered a configuration for more than 16 switches (it's quite hard work...) Finally, I made a version in which I can easily populate the original matrix with anything I like. To my great surprise (thoug in retrospect it should probably not have been such a surprise) I still got a stable result in two iterations. I.e. iteration 3 is always equal to iteration 2, independent of what I filled in. So the effect has nothing to do with railways or switches having only two exits or anything like that. It is purely a property of the algorithm. But so far I have not found a proof. At least I now know I should concentrate on the algorithm itself. You were not pricing track. A year ago you could get 6 straight segments of duplo track for $5 from S@H. Only with the most recent release did they push the duplo track up to the cost of the regular track. Wow. Robert.
  3. Also the layout page: that is excellent (still have to read it to the end thou). I was thinking about those issues myself some time. But I was going into representing the layout as graph and then see how things look and maybe find some rules. It does not work with simple graphs, as it is directed. I still have not found a way to get ahead with graphs. I did consult a mathematician on the second problem. He did not get anywhere. However , we agreed (a) it is not a simple problem, (b) I found out it is a property of my algorithm and not at all of the topology or even that it has anything to do with switches. I'll publish on that soon too. I wrote a simple program in LiveCode to do the computation on any matrix, and my algorithm always ends in two steps, no matter which arbitrary set of cells one marks! Anyway I really admire your effort and work. It is nice to know that somewhere out there is someone playing with Duplo rails more than just "randomly". This topic seems to be unpopular, people use System rails instead. What is "system rails"? Likely I would have done so myself if not having too small children. And since I already invested in much Duplo (mostly rail) it will stay for some time at least. I found I needed more straight ones. If you have not tried eBay, do so. Nora is our granddaughter, the Duplo is "hers" when she comes to us. But is there a way to browse through the topics of the http://www.cailliau.org page othrwise than alphabetic? As it has very wide selection of topics while I'm interested in Duplo and LEGO only (for now! ;)). For example I wasn't aware of the very interesting entry in Mathematics... No. Well, you may ask via Google... I'm doing this site purely to be able to record some of my own thoughts, because writing them up forces one to think straight. And it serves also the purpose of being able to send a URL rather than having to write things again and again. And I do have SVG editor. OK. My e-mail address is robert@cailliau.org (don't forget the i after the double l.) Send me a message there, then I'll send you in reply the files I have as SVG files. I tried to use InkScape to do the editing, but I'm not yet good at it, it's still easier for me to use Illustrator's snapping and duplication tools. But I can save in SVG of course. Anyway if you would like some help with those entries I could try to contribute whatever I can (likely not much sadly). At the very least you would be a critical and intelligent audience! ;-)
  4. Sigh. As you rightly point out, I do not have definitive answers, we can get those only from the Lego engineers involved, and I doubt we can get in contact with them... However, I’ll try to give some more comments, taking your original questions one by one: (1) the radius used for curved tracks must have some reasons behind it. I don’t know which and I would very much like to know. My answer to that one is a guess, but I think it was mainly the need to make the figure-eight with rails (you call them tracks, but neither is a good word really, but we know what we mean: the track “unit” piece). As you can see from what I did with the plates under the connections, for some strange reason the curved track actually spans 30.3 degrees! And it is also slightly wider than the straight one. (2) Ever tried to connect the ends of such right angle with Duplo bricks? I suppose what you mean here is this: suppose there is an infinite grid of studs (knobs) that are “virtual”. Place the half-sleeper of one end of the right-angle set of three rails exactly on those studs, then the half-sleeper at the other end does NOT fit the studs. That is true indeed, and I have no clue why, other than that the curved rail is some compromise that allows building the figure-eight and also fits several other layouts that cannot be made exactly, but can be made because there is enough play. As the engineer that I am, I would probably make a number of “popular” layouts, calculate the curved track dimensions to do each of them, and then design a piece that, with some play, would work in all those layouts. Take a look at http://www.cailliau.org/Alphabetical/M/Mathematics/APR/Description/ The layout in the photo can probably not be made "rigidly", and relies on the play. The diagonal, projected on the other sides woud involve a cosine of 30 degrees, and that is not a rational number. What I do know is that the older rails, black (still for sale as used items on eBay), are the same width but have many disadvantages: they divided the circle in 8 instead of 12, and the sleepers could not fit on plates because the tabs were not raised above the studs. Their surfaces are also a little lower than the new ones. (3) a whole circle of 12 curved tracks you would not get a circle but an ellipse with short radius of 17 Duplo studs and long radius of 18 Duplo studs Using the method of forcing the half-sleepers to unite over a plate or brick, I come to 36.5 for the outer diameter. If you do not use that method, then the play in the connections (we really lack a vocabulary for naming the different parts of rails we are talking about!) will allow for a diameter of 2x18=36. (4) Another failed example is when you connect two curved tracks in opposite direction. That way the lines entering and leaving the two tracks are parallel. Its tempting to see if you can mount it on a plate. But as it shows again it is not possible. Indeed. I have a drawing that shows it, for ideal alignments. The play in the connections lets one align straight and snaky tracks, but not if alignment is forced by plates under sleepers. And so maybe that was another important consideration: a snaky track should be able to replace a straight one. For, I suppose you have noticed, most sets have far more curved than straight rails. (a good source of straight rails, used, is eBay) (5) a train having two or three railcars significantly slows down on longer curves. The cars are long and wheels don’t turn around in no way which means that the do no align well with curved track and cause some friction This problem occurs also in real trains. Over the length of a long car it is alleviated by the bogies on each end of the car that can turn around a vertical axis, but within the (very short) bogies the problem remains. The other kind of friction is caused by the fact that the wheels are fixed to the axles, and the outer wheel must go further than the inner wheel. That is the reason for supressing the ridges on the inner surface (point 5 on my page, traction) which unfortunately also leads to the locomotive slowing down somewhat and having less traction. In real trains the wheels are slightly conical, and there is 12.7 mm play between the rails and the wheel flanges (see point 2.). This play allows the car to shift slightly towards the outer rail in a bend, so that the outer wheel rolls on a larger diameter of its conical shape than the inner wheel which rolls on a smaller diameter. This is just sufficient to compensate the difference in distance travelled. In fact, original railways in mines had a rail distance of 4’8” (don’t ask where that silly number came from...) and this was no good for higher speed locomotive pulled trains for people, hence the addition of 0.5” and the standard rail gauge of 4’8.5”. Human silliness has no bounds. And even so, many trains screech when going through a bend because of the slipping of steel on steel (do not buy a house close to a railway bend). But Lego rails of course do not have this possibility of the conical wheels, so the inner wheel slips and causes friction. (6) Now knowing the drawbacks of current curved track design we might wonder what are its advantages so that the trade off goes well. Anyone? There I think I did give several answers: it had to be child-proof, withstand pressure on the wheel rims, be easy to put the cars on the rails, allow for use without rails, and so on. (7) Why current locomotives do move in only one direction? The older ones do have reverse, and can be programmed. I don’t know why this was stopped. (8) Or would it be much more difficult for kids? You touch a delicate point. I would say it would be too difficult for the parents. Sadly, we seem to be in a dumbing-down phase of everything, including Lego. I remember that when IKEA became popular, it was mainly because it was so EASY to assemble, and all I hear now is that people find it difficult! Yet IKEA has not changed its , so it must be people’s attitudes that did. (9) Current sets with locomotives are from 2 years. How it was with the old “smart locomotive”? As I think it was far more “difficult” and “complex”. I agree. Kids figure this out quickly, but parents are too impatient and dislike figuring things out. See also (7) and (8). (10) I find it rather odd that (current) Duplo locomotives don’t have anchors on both sides as all railcars do. I agree completely. However, going over a bridge might become more difficult if the train is pushed, as the rack-and-pinion design of hte locomotive’s driving wheels would not engage with the bridge (page about that to come). But that is a minor point. (11) Tracks and the engine wheels of the locomotive are corrugated. Why is this needed? As it seems LEGO trains don’t use it. So why Duplo trains need it? Because of the flat wheel rims, see also point 5. The other trains are designed like real ones and run with conical wheels on top of rails. I will soon put up a page on locomotive design. (12) Does LEGO provide precise specification of their “bricks”? I do not know, as I have been in direct contact with Lego only once, almost 30 years ago. In this day and age of companies making a wall between themselves and their customers, it will be difficult to get those specs. On the other hand, Lego must have filed patents on everything, and so perhaps I should try to find out what the European Patent Office has. This is hard work though... I have a lot of dimensions, from reverse engineering, and my info about it was/is on my old site. I’m converting it (slowly...) to the renovated site, but it will take some time. Have you got access to Adobe Illustrator, or to a good SVG editor? I could send you some of my drawings of parts. Otherwise, watch the Lego section, more will come over the next months. Robert. Perhaps one more thing: I have not yet finished a page on switches. They are different in dimensions from a superposed pair of curved rails. Maybe they have the original curvature. Writing to you has brought this up as a possibility, I will explore it. Also: the older switches had "memory": if you set one to fork to the left, say, it would stay that way. If a train came from the other direction on the right side of the fork, then it would push the point to the right, but that would bounce back after the train left the switch. The new switches no longer have a spring in them. If you set one to fork to the left, and then a train passed over it in the other direction from the right side, the switch will then be set to fork to the right... Things are being dumbed down.
  5. I don't know if this can help, but you may have a look at http://www.cailliau....l/L/Lego/Duplo/ Robert. (use a browser that can display svg and conforms to W3C standards)
×
×
  • Create New...