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Well thanks to ADHO and Penguin! I realize this is your first mafia game, so there will definitely be some criticisms. Please take them in stride. At some points I really enjoyed the game, though toward the end there was a little more frustration. I think scum losing their night kill ability really handicapped them, and I've never seen a mafia where that happens. That fact takes away from some of my satisfaction in winning. I suppose them having a recruiter balanced it out, but we lynched them on day one Attaching abilities to characters is a big mistake. I tried to stay in denial of it for a while, even as Catwoman claimed a thieving ability. But around the time Oky started hypothesizing (correctly) that Croc was the vig I was pretty annoyed. <why would a town player try to out the vig on their own side > I've read Batman, but not much in the last 20 years, so more than half were unknown to me. But for people who know the characters well, they shouldn't have an advantage. Lastly, I felt there were too many abilities, and that was the real reason I was able to pinpoint the scum. Of course, Hogwarts mafia was also all-abilities, and the scum won, so there are no guarantees there. But I think it's easier to hunt scum in an all-ability game, unless there are more randomized/duplicated actions. I don't think this was too much of a problem though. Those are the key issues with the game for me. On the positive side, you were generally timely, which isn't as easy as it sounds. And I liked some of the abilities you created. The Clayface copy ability was very interesting. It gave us a second investigator, a second blocker, etc etc, and acted like a role cop of sorts. And I liked Man-Bat's ability to pinpoint the number of Town in a vote. Your presentation was fun. The comics were a nice touch Overall, a solid first game, and I look forward to seeing what you can do in the future. But usually, I was simply voting for the person who I was targeting next, and the person being voted for was already guaranteed to be lynched. And I didn't defend the person being lynched. The main scummy thing you did was copying me from the Baritones. We were scum buddies there, remember On day one there, I was "too sensible" and refused to vote for Big Cam. In this case, you had been flippant about voting anybody, but when the bandwagon started, you tried to differentiate yourself. I was very happy to get a day one lynch, and that was how the ball got rolling with townies sharing info, which was the real key to the scum's demise. I swear, in thread, and in PMs, everyone kept telling me Two-Face was scum. I told everyone you were just lazy. But, they all kept wanting to get you. Be more active next time I think you did a good job Brickdoctor, you definitely put up the best defense of all the scum The investigator claim really didn't sit right with me, and there was no other choice to lynch but you. Nice job! You can say it has nothing to do with being scum, but I still think it was. In that first PM to me, you really were a snarky dick, and there was no reason to be. If you were town, you wouldn't reply the way you did (nobody else in town had any attitude whatsoever). Reread this and tell me what you think, if this was a way to start off on the right foot: I was working very hard to take scum out, and you give a sarcastic remark. It didn't make me think you were scum, but it made me think you were in high school. I chatted with Rumblestrike about it, but the general notion is that, during the game and only in the game, the scum are the worst human beings on the planet. Any amount of teasing is fair. Around the time you started getting really upset though, again, I figured you were in high school, and felt that even in a game, it might be inappropriate. Hopefully, after the smoke had cleared, and you got a few steps away from the game, you saw it was game based, and meant to rattle you. I wanted the scum writeboard hating me. I wanted you to call me a bastard That was my goal. It made them stand out a lot more in the game. And I need to point out, the scum or dumb mantra really worked! The townies were indeed very lazy the first few days, but they started to rally by day three. And active townies mean dead scum. No townies gave me any attitude whatsoever. I explained it in thread a number of times, so I still don't know what is confusing about this Croc was killing scum. Oky was blocking scum. Tammo was investigating scum. Man-Bat was watching scum. Clayface was doing all of that. etc etc Then there was you, with some random abilities you didn't know what they were. The meaning of help in my examples (which I clearly stated that day) was directly leading to taking out scum. You couldn't do that. And that was also the case with a lot of the other scum. So it wasn't a criticism of your attitude in any way, but a statement of how I was pinpointing scum through everyone's night actions. Friends? I think it was because the game was over when the agents were taken out. You were too late! Great job Tammo You were very very helpful behind the scenes, and I can't remember the examples since it was Day 2, but you gave me some helpful ideas. I think we've seen a really solid improvement in your play from game to game. I can agree with this. I was quite worried I would be pegged as an agent day one since the Creeper is technically a hero, so I just tried to avoid saying that. Actually Peanuts, I don't remember you ever playing scum before, so I thought that you would be having difficulty doing it for the first time. When I said what I did about Whitefang and Rumblestrike, I was 100% sure of it, and couldn't fathom your doubt. When Bob died, I was ready to lynch Whitefang, and asked him to "confess" in thread about it. The moment he did, I all of a sudden clued in to why Bob had died and what it said about Rumblestrike. So, your attempt to steer things differently really stuck out. And you were also one of those players with an unhelpful night action. If it makes you feel better, I didn't feel confident you were scum. That was my biggest mistake. I'm sorry. Please forgive me Honestly, you weren't the best team There were problems with your strategy, the #1 being uncooperative and #2 being poor at lying. All the town were helping me, so the people not helping me looked scummy. It was as easy as that. And when you had the spotlight shined on you, most of you went to the old, "the flock is trusting Creeps". And it wasn't as simple as that. There were investigative actions. There was a voting record. That day one and day two vote was a great place to check votes. When Catwoman was voted for, at least one of you should have voted very early for her, regardless of the outcome. On day two, one or two of you should have voted for Ventriloquist. It looks good for you. Brickdoctor was very cooperative (with Kiel) and unsurprisingly he survived the longest. When you are about to be lynched and are scum, you need to comb through the previous days, look for any detail that can save you and make a serious defense. Nobody, except Brickdoctor, made a defense at all. Flitwick might have if he was lynched, but luckily it didn't come to that. @Flitwick, your bussing lie was fair enough, but you would have been better to concoct a different roleclaim to justify targeting Rumblestrike night one. Then claiming to protect me was unbelievable If you were "really" protecting me, you should have contacted me in advance and said something like, "I know you think I'm scum, but I'm not. And I'm pretty sure you're not. You are a likely target tonight, so I'm protecting you." If you'd put that sort of effort in in advance, I would have had a lot more doubt about taking you out As I covered with Scorpiox, I was trying to piss the scum off. I think part of it was there were so many n00bish players, I preyed on it In a regular game here, most of the players would just ignore it. But with almost every scum being lynched bitching about sheep, well, I laughed. I really was playing. But, I have to say, Oky, you did piss me off. I'm sorry if I was too harsh the last day. But it was something building up throughout the game. I'm all for new players playing, but I think they need to be willing to participate in the game, and not simply role-play. Some of the things that frustrated me: -not trying to coordinate your night action until I had contacted you. -trying to guess the identity of our vigilante in thread. Why would you want to let the scum know who is killing them? -repeatedly asking for information that had been stated in thread (like that Zsasz had been investigated) -concocting a theory that I was the biggest threat to town, that was based on nothing logical And that final point is what did annoy me. The reason was this: I had about 30-50 PMs coming in every game day, that I had to remember and organize. I had to take two pages of a notebook to keep track of who was who, who was cleared, what their claims were, etc etc. I had to wake up 20 minutes early each day to take the time to reply to people and share that info in thread. Compared to you, who I think was playing very casually. It's fine that you play that way, but the most work you put in the game was trying to explain a theory about me that was 100% wrong, and even wrong in your understanding of how the Serial Killer worked. That said, I wanted you to know why I was frustrated, but I'm sorry if I was too blunt, as Zepher puts it, in trying to get it across to you. For me, the best behind the scenes players were Tammo, Sirius Black, Whitefang, and Jedi Anakin. A few others did well too, but those players were very thoughtful and active, and I appreciated their support

Okay. Not a SK trait. They, traditionally have to kill everyone to win. Wrong. Not a SK trait. Hinckley did that once in a game, and I didn't care for it personally. Wrong. That applies to SK's, not to me. Wrong. What the hell does that have to do with anything? The reason they play a disproportionate role is because they are killing people. Wrong. I said my role was meant to mess with people's heads. Because it was a variation of the janitor role. Do you know what that is? No? Didn't think so. It is an ability I'm not using It's also one I mentioned on Day Seven, since it would be obvious I didn't use it, and at this point, everyone, except you, knows that. What is the other condition? Killing you? I said that was all my condition was, off the top of my head. I can open my role PM and check, I just thought it not worth the trouble to go back and read though about it. <Goes and checks> Yup, I just have to live to win. That's it. No. You make yourself look like a fool by having no idea what you're talking about. You're right, logic is not a good word to describe your 'suspicions' at all. If anyone out there is curious about why this post irritates the hell out of me, it's because I've literally done 50 times more work than him to help town win in this game, and this kid who has barely read through the threads since day one, often doing things that hurt the town (which I'll catalog after the game, since it would leak out intelligence if I told it now), all of a sudden thinks he's a detective because someone linked him to mafia wiki on day four, using the information I told up front about my role even though I didn't need to. The only reason I told people, was because I figured at this point, nobody in this game would be so ignorant to the principles of mafia as to write the post quoted here. :wall: Let's close this day thread Joker, before any more nonsense comes up. Actually, in games where the Independents need to die for town to win, the target is specifically labeled as "All threats to town must be eliminated". Freeze might know that if this wasn't his first game. But he doesn't know that because this is his first game

Because, I didn't target Black Mask, but then I was told that I did. That is redirecting. And it wasn't Two-Face, since he makes you target yourself. And I doubt it was the Fear Gas, since it would just be too coincidental that the person I targeted was the guy being aimed for a take down... The plot thickens...

How is it that the town might "loose" if I win? What trait do I have in common with serial killers, since you've apparently been reading?... I'll start by answering your question. I support the town because I'd be totally bored if I just sat around watching town kill each other. And I'm more likely to survive by working with town, since only a moron would vote out someone catching scum, and my general assumption in a situation like this is that the majority of the people here aren't morons. Plus, I get a lot of cooperation from the town since I'm working hard. Compare that to me just sitting around trying not to get investigated, then getting investigated, and having to explain myself without having done anything for the town. Which of those strategies would be more successful? You have a 50/50 chance of getting that question right, but I think you'll get it wrong After all, you think, and I quote, "Because if he wins, the town might loose, similar to Ivy's case." Despite an hour earlier, saying that, and I quote, "(I) don't think there is a point in lynching Ivy"... You think Ivy wins by everybody losing, and that she isn't a threat, and that I win that way too, but, I am a threat, even though I was a key participant in every scum conviction and scum night kill. Holy megabluck, that makes no sense at all. Don't change your vote. It will be a monument to your bad strategy after the game. The point: It doesn't bother me that I have a vote. I think it's highly unlikely that I'll be voted out. What bothers me is the utter bollocks that you think is logic making you do it. This is the uphill climb I've been against since day one. But then again, I have used logic to help nab six scumbags, and your logic is trying to catch me <Important point bolded so I don't have to explain about it later>

And this is why Mafia School was invented. You don't follow the day thread, you don't know what an investigator is, you think the best course of action is voting me out. Whatever. The reason you'll get crap for it, if you get any, is because it's a clueless move to make. I'll leave it at that, since this is just a game, and I don't think you're scum. You think the guy who organized all six scum being taken out of the game is the logical choice As I said, I don't think he's scum. He's been way too clueless from day one to be scum... His scummates wouldn't allow it. Though he hasn't had an investigation yet, that I can remember off of the top of my head

Me neither. Happy birthday!

I didn't say you were risking yourself to lynch a townie. You'll have to show me where I did. The other investigators are using Riddler's ability from beyond the grave. Crazy, but it's true, and has been verified unless they were both lying, and chose to sacrifice Zsasz for their cause. Therefore, you are the only other one claiming to be an investigator. As for the other townies, they have either contributed to convicting/killing scum, or were cleared. You have been neither. Only you. I think it's plausible that you are town, but you are the only uncleared one, so I'd be stupid not to vote you out before the others. I said I was blocked? You'll have to show me when I said that. Has Hush been drinking again?

This is true, there is some things about your story that are believable. Claiming she was scum was a strange way to get her trust. It's possible that you were hoping she might consider you an insane investigator early on, and lynch one townie to test that theory though. You have been "helpful", which you say was showing you're town, but consider what happened to all the scum who were unhelpful Your "helpfulness" has kept you alive and out of the spotlight a good number of days, so it would have been a successful scum strategy. Lastly, we had a protector, Bane. The Ventriloquist claimed to be another protector, and he was scum. We have a blocker. The Pieman claimed to be another blocker, and he was scum. The Riddler was our investigator, and you claim to be another investigator... It's all circumstantial, but that combined with your inability to be investigated yourself, which you have no idea about, means you have a cloud of suspicion over you. Vote: Black Mask (Brickdoctor)

A lovely day in Tantrum Gotham City Mafia Honestly, I missed that. In the 50 plus messages I got from a dozen different people, I missed that. If you think that's a good reason to out my "dirty" secret, than so be it. I think that's really stupid reason to do that, but, that's just me. Of course, what you posted ignored my reply to you, which implied I had missed that. So, as we can see, I missed the first part, and didn't know what you were talking about the second time. On top of that, I was specifically doing the block + kill combo you spoke of even though that still wouldn't work... How's that for the full story? I don't think it was a fear canister. It came out in thread that I had a defensive ability, and I targeted none other than Black Mask, against my will. So, either it was a scum act on their part to help their man out, or a (for once) clever scum move to incriminate Black Mask. I have a hard time believing they did something clever though Black Mask was investigated on two different nights by two different people, one of whom caught Zsasz. Both were unable to. Black Mask can't explain it. We had one investigator (Riddler) who was outed early, and a few Criminals who were able steal Riddler's action before he died. So, actually, there are three investigators floating around, plus Black Mask's claim Add to that, he claimed to be blocked last night... But, I completed one of Joker's missions, and I was protected from kills, blocks, and redirections. Maybe Joker gave me special treatment that he didn't give Black Mask So, it's circumstantial, but most of the people here have either been investigated, or actively helped take down scum, and Black Mask is the sore thumb sticking out. (Ivy a little but too, but first things first). My vote has nowhere else to go today, but if you folks have any leads... And, as for my secret that Babydoll thinks I'm afraid of releasing, well, of course not on day seven I'm... wait for it... Independent! I have actually never claimed criminal in this game yet. I simply said I wasn't an agent. I think my role here was to mess you people's heads, I have a janitor role of sorts, but I never used it. I can also be unkillable at night, so I just made myself a lightning pole for town and hopefully wasted some of the scum night kills. I actually forget my win condition, but I just have to stay alive. If you guys want to lynch me for that, well, I wouldn't be surprised, actually

Well, there's good news and bad news... The good news is this: I'm still alive Some scum bums tried to do something last night, be it use a fear canister or simply redirect me... Who knows. Anyway, I'm still here. (You know who could have done that? Hush ) And Ra's was scum. Besides being a lousy liar, and overall lazy, he was working against us. Good riddance. The bad news: 1. Babydoll forgot to mention that Black mask would be 100% safe last night, thereby wasting some of town's precious resources A real waste. We could have used them elsewhere. 2. Again, some of town are still sending in night actions without any consultation at all, again, wasting some of town's resources. Every night, one or two "Town" players send in actions without discussing it, thereby covering ground we already know, or wasting an action on somebody cleared. If you guys come up with something new, great! If not, 3. "Scum" Frankly, that's just annoying. If Ra's is 100% on his own, then, so be it, but then he should be Independent. After killing, literally, a scum player everyday, town should be doing very well. But with five of the Agents gone, to learn there is a second scum faction is just too late, and too much. It doesn't make this surprising, it makes it a slog to finish. Compared to other movies, like Werewolf or Baritones, where there were two Scum teams, those were teams of three, and increased to four. But we've already caught five Agents. Add to that almost no night kills, and well, I don't want to be here at New Years. But enough about that. I'm voting out Black Mask today. Since he's claiming town, he may as well tell us the marvelous results of his pro-town, unblockable investigation last night, and give some reason why we shouldn't lynch him. (And even when being voted out, town is still town, and won't have hard feelings. Only the scum pull tantrums )

You lied to me because you are suspicious of me on day six You think I might be a serial killer. Got it And you can't even be bothered to vote

Someone's got to provide an out for Ra's. Lord knows he isn't bothering to to save himself.

Unvote: Ra's Vote: Black Mask (Brickdoctor)

No worries, it is only a game That is one of the reasons Mafia School was started, so that new players could get an experience of the game without going up against hardcore players. I hope at the very least, it was fun for you

There's not much use in going elsewhere today. Ra's will be the target. Not only was he caught in a lie, but I think he's had the most pathetic defense of anyone I've ever seen. He hasn't even bothered to explain his lie. Not even a lame "bus" excuse. Vote: Ra's (fred fred) And Black Mask can't explain himself either, and he really should. It's just circumstantial evidence, but he's really the obvious choice for a vig target tonight.

She told me that, but it was nothing I had verified, so I said to her, "as long as I don't have a seed on me." It was self-serving, I admit, but his day one choice, Harley, is still with us, so I didn't consider it as pressing a matter as taking out the real scum. Now that he's planted one on me, I want to know for sure what it is, in case there is a problem. Before, he was an outsider I was willing to leave on her own, but she had to pull me in. I will say, I don't believe she is an Agent, despite not being investigated, based on her early Day One vote of Catwoman. So if you used your skill, then you action wouldn't fail Crappy, crappy lie. Can you explain why you were uninvestigatable for two nights? Or will that get you another five penalty votes

It's official, something is up with Black Mask. Two nights in a row, we tried to investigate him, and the investigation won't go through. Something about his thugs being too tough or something. On top of that, the vig tried to kill Ra's last night, but wasn't able to, something to do with Ra's. So, our path is clear. We vote out Ra's today, kill Black Mask tonight if we can, then think about what to do with Hush tomorrow, assuming we're still figuring things out. Unless you guys want to lynch Ivy on the chance that she'll kill five of us tonight. Up to you folks. The Creeper doesn't control you! Right Ivy

It's true, the whole town won, even Darth Nihilous Thanks If you're going to steal, steal from the best. It's a good story, and a good cross section of society. I had to add a few to represent the ladies though. Sandy gets upset if your game doesn't have enough lady characters

Finished my new story today. It involves talking foxes. I hope you like it. You can see them bigger here (http://naha-def.deviantart.com/art/Sly-Fox-1-0f-7-261973269) if that's the kind of thing you're into.

For the record, I didn't make any of that stuff up about an arsonist or exploding seeds. Did Hush do that? Babydoll? I already don't want to go back and read through everything At the very least, you'll have relaxed a lot of people who think you've been planting bombs on us everyday. It might have been better to pretend you had it. Now we can just kill you if we like without any worry I'm not saying we'll do that, but, you know, cooperation. What I would like to pay attention to is the people who voted for Bane, who we often forget, should have been a massive map to the scum. Let's look, shall we? <colors and comments by me> Final vote tally Bane (Masked Builder): 15 - KielDaMan (clear), Brickdoctor (suss), Bob_, WhiteFang, Rumble Strike, Captain Tamamono (clear), Mrlegoninja (suss), Sirius Black (clear), Oky (clear), Nightshroud99, Scorpiox, Jedi master Brick (clear), Peanuts, Professor Flitwick, K-nut (suss) The Ventriloquist (Professor Flitwick): 7 - Masked Builder, Alopex, JediAnakin, badboytje88, def, Capt. Redblade, sok117 At this point, it really looks like all the scum were rallying to save that knob end, the Ventriloquist. Foolishly even. There is a slight concern that the Music Meister (Redblade) could be scum, but really, the others who voted for Ventie seem on the up and up. (note that the Meister didn't throw a tantrum today when I didn't vouch that he was cleared, though. Nice one ) I think the key thing to consider is that the scum put all their eggs in one basket. And we're going to step on it and smash them to pieces What do you fine folks think?

I'm getting embarrassed for Hush. He's bitching since he's not getting enough credit for doing nothing Is anybody else thinking it's ridiculous? I hope he's just drunk or something to justify this attitude.

Yes, acting like a five year old is what would help Let me spell it out for you, slower... The other townies have done things behind the scenes to help take out scum. That puts them above you in the list of innocents. Does that explanation not offend your delicate sensibilities? Or should I pretend this isn't a mafia game and take your word for things Really, why would someone have a tantrum because they were placed in the possible godfather list. It's really ridiculous. The only reason I can think of is guilt. It's what all the other scummies have done. We just need to wait for you to bitch about sheep

I already spelled it out for you. I quote, mere hours ago: Who have you helped convict, outside of your vote? Nobody. That's what I mean by "No Help". Don't make me spell it out again. You weren't accused of anything, you just chose to flail all over the place. Much like Bane, if you are town and get killed by us, it'll be on your shoulders for looking so totally scummy today. There really wasn't a high-and-mighty attitude, merely bafflement that you could be so bitchy when I'm simply doing my job in stating things as they are :hmpf: If six criminals die tomorrow, I'll take the heat from it (and anyone else who decides not to vote for Ivy). It has never ever ever happened in a game here, so I'm not going to play as if that's likely to happen. You can do your best to explain that to people.

Actually, the more Hush speaks, the scummier he looks. His attitude of, "Oh, you caught me! " is totally ridiculous. I didn't say he was scum. I was saying that he hasn't brought any information to the table that helped bring scum down. And it's true. But, I wasn't gloating over him that I had nabbed another scum. He read that into it himself, and we now have "Bitchy Hush" telling me why I'm wrong... For what? He's been investigated Criminal. But, there will be scum who do that. And he voted for scum. Wow. All the scum have. His attitude today is based on a whole lot of nothing. I was not accusing him of anything before, just summarizing who was cleared. But this flail he's doing has put him back up on the radar. Utterly uncalled for.

Sorry, Hush, you brought the uppity to the table today. I didn't condescend you until you let me know that the information I was sharing was a "joke". Reread what has been said. What is it with everyone here being so bitchy?