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Everything posted by pbat
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On that images you posted some details are a bit hard to distinguish . Having a zoomable and rotatable digital model would allow to recognise all the subtle details more easily. Since those images seem to be made digitally, would you mind to share the LXF or LDRAW files as a digital template?
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Most wanted bricks for next LDD update
pbat replied to Superkalle's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
Instead of 4865 (which has sharp corners), 15714 has soft rounded corners. You can actually see the different visual appearance, but moreover you can feel it by touching the bricks. Likewise the 2399: It cannot be placed upon a 4x4 plate, while the similar 50373 can due to the cutouts. Likewise the 2625: It cannot be placed on top of a 16x16 plate, while the similar 50303 can due to the cutouts. Those are examples where it is perfectly usefull to have both variants in LDD: Those pieces are rather similar, but just not fully identical. Or take for example 2339, 14395 and 76768: They look pretty similar, but you can easily recognize some (small) differences both in real life and in LDD. But a transparent 30002's shape is in no way different from an opaque 6269's. TLG might have to handle them differently during production, but as far as LDD is concerned, there is absolutely no visual difference between those two design IDs: In LDD you could make a 6269 transparent and a 30002 opaque. So if LDD omitts the transparent 30002 in favor of the identical shaped opaque 6269, this is far less important than if it omitts 15714 in favor of the similar (but slightly different) 4865. Of course it would be easy to copy&paste 6269 and call the duplicate 30002. But what's the point of doing so? The brick palettes get (even more) unclear and confusing and the benefit would be actually zero. Instead of transparent duplicates of opaque bricks (or vice versa) I'd rather prefer if some sort of alias could be introduced for transparent and opaque design IDs: If you filter for 30002, LDD should offer 6269 instead. If there is really more accuracy needed in LDD, rather things like 4081a and 4081b or 3962a and 3962b should be distinguished, where the visual appearance of different designs is (slightly but observably) different. That includes bricks, that retained the same design ID but changed their actual shape during the times, like 2578a/b. -
Most wanted bricks for next LDD update
pbat replied to Superkalle's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
On the one hand you are right: LDD should be as exact as possible. But on the other hand that issue should IMHO get a very low priority: As long as the shapes are indistinguishable, there is no urgent need to have a brick both with its solid and its transparent ID. Existing bricks like 6188/4589 shouldn't get removed or unified though, but adding all the missing 300XX transparent clones of existing bricks should not be done until other unique shapes are added (like the various raised baseplates for example), even if the brick was only used in a couple of sets: Correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as there is no visual difference, it does not really matter if a round plate 1x1 is actually a 4073, 6141 or 30057. TLG might have good reasons giving different IDs to transparent and opaque versions of the same design, but as far as LDD is concerned, that shouldn't make much of a difference. But as long as unique bricks like 4626 or the Friends minidolls are missing, whole sets remain unfinished since there is no adequate substitution: That should be tackled first! In let's say set 6379 you might replace 4626 by something like 3747, but that won't work in set 4525 for example. So before tuning the accuracy, all the currently missing rare and old parts should be added first. That allows avoiding ugly workarounds and custom brick-built appliances (I don't want to call them solutions) and greatly helps making complete and accurate sets, much more than the transparent clones of existing solid bricks would. Your list definitely will be helpful in the long run, but I guess it is nothing to be considered for the very next LDD update. -
In most sets, Yoda holds his light sword, however in sets 7958-25, 7260 or 4502, Yoda holds a bar 4L (30374) in reddish brown or brown, which resembles a stick. In LDD this item is confusingly called a Light Sword Blade, although it is nothing but a (reddish) brown bar 4L. Do you mean that item? Or rather some sort of cane or walking stick? 90540 is merely a ski pole, but maybe adequate, too; 90390 or 98134 may fit in an egyptian context, but surely not star wars and Yoda; 13790 and 88001 are rather clubs than sticks: Please render more precisely what exactly you have in mind.
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Voilà: Save the content of the Spoiler below to a text file using the extension ".LXFML" and import it to LDD. Note: I used two different kinds of oars (87585 and 2542), so you have to replace at least one of them. However, I omitted the oats .
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Although you won't get those parts connecting to each other (for reasons Superkalle pointed out), scaffolding might somewhat circumvent that limitation: Put both bricks onto the same brick and let them slide together. For example, using a light sword blade 30374 allows you to put those pieces quite close together. Here's an example in LXFML: Save the content of the Spoiler below to a text file using the extension ".LXFML" and import it to LDD.
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Oh my! Possibly the most disturbing Lego build contest ever...
pbat replied to Faefrost's topic in General LEGO Discussion
Read the whole story here. -
Question about LDD decals
pbat replied to Wodanis's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
To apply "hidden" decorations, ignore the rest of the lines. You just have to replace the zero(s) after decoration= with other valid numbers: One zero indicates that this brick has one decorateable surface but is currently undecorated; two comma-separated zeros indicate that this brick has two decorateable surfaces, but is currently undecorated; guess what three comma-separated zeros indicate... So, a zero is a non-decoration; by replacing it with valid decoration IDs, LDD renders that decoration onto that brick. Bricks that don't have the decoration= string in their line cannot be decorated at all: It's no use adding such a string, since no decoration surfaces are defined for that brick ID. It's a bit tricky to figure out what decoration IDs are actually valid. Reading the threads linked in my previous post may be a good start. At least those threads helped me a lot. However, it will remain a matter of trial and error nonetheless: If you apply invalid decoration IDs nothing harmful happens, LDD won't crash, but simply doesn't show anything and the brick remains undecorated. I have not yet seen valid decoration IDs that don't have 5 or 6 digits; below in the Spoiler are 1509 decoration IDs I know that are working in 4.3.8. I don't know, however, if that list is complete and if that are all decorations currently in LDD, or if others do exist I have not yet found. Have a look at the LDD reference thread linked some posts above, especially this post to get an idea of the guts of the LXFML format. -
What version do you use? PC or MAC? Did you try to re-install LDD, or rather upgrade to the most recent version? Similar issues are discussed in this thread, but for rather old versions of LDD. Have a look there and check if something suggested there might help you.
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Question about LDD decals
pbat replied to Wodanis's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
LDD is far from complete with regards to decorations: Quite a bunch of them aren't included at all, while others are actually included but not accessible via GUI, but only by editing the LXFML file manually: Since LXF files are nothing but ZIP files, rename its extensions to .ZIP, unzip its content, edit the LXFML file with your favorite text editor (even Notepad works) and look for lines containing strings like decoration="0,0". Replace the zeros with appropriate decoration IDs, save the LXFML file, re-zip it and rename the ZIP-file back to LXF. Thus you can use "hidden" decorations that are included in LDD but not accessible via GUI. Have a look at the existing threads "[Recurrent Questions] Find a piece/brick in LDD (Ask here for help)" and "Minifig torso with all decorations!" for more information on that issue. And it's always a good idea to have a look at the "LDD Reference" thread as well. You may also file a request for decorations to be added in a future update in the thread "Most wanted decorations for next LDD update" if LDD currently doesn't contain the wanted decorations at all. Anyways, to be able to identify the decorations you are looking for, it will be very helpfull if you include the bricklink number of the respective brick you are talking about, like 973pb1350 for the Undercover Elite Police Officer torso: That torso seems to have the decoration IDs 601818 (front) and 601819 (back). -
While some switches actually are included (75541, 75542), LDD is far from complete with regards to train stuff. Since you can neither export nor import parts or decorations nor modify existing ones without violating LDDs EULA, you might be more happy using LDraw, which is free software: It is harder to learn at the beginning, but way more powerful and flexible. If you, however, decide to work with LDD, you might request parts to be added with a future update in this thread.
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Arrow keys for 90˚ rotations. Or the rotation tool (available via the 'H' hotkey) for individual rotations. Please also try to press F1 for the manual, where such basic questions are already answered.
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Upper limit on parts?
pbat replied to DraikNova's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
Nobody can tell you a definite upper border, since it pretty much depends on the system used. On an elderly notebook it may crash with as little as 3000 parts, while some souped-up workstations may cope well with 100000 bricks and more. A system that's designed for good CAD handling is more likely to handle large LDD sets than a consumer tablet of the 299 bucks class. An AMD FirePro or Nvidia Quadro graphics board thus might be a good investment, if you plan to make really large sets. A processor with more cores, or more RAM, however, will do little good: LDD does not use multiple CPU cores well, but seems to be single-threaded, as far as I've observed it. By the way, it's not so much the part count that matters, but rather the amount of polygons to be displayed: An additional 48x48 baseplate is much more critical than a 1x1 flat tile. And transparent colours are more harmful than solid ones. Anyway, save your file quite often! If LDD reaches the limit of bricks it can handle on that particular system, it will crash without warning or chance to save your work. -
Use the extended mode, as described here. Then switch the colour to 199 (bricklink's dark bluish gray has the LEGO COLOUR ID 199, see the Peeron Colour Chart) and enter the number 50745 in the parts search box. Voilà. You also should have a look at the LDD reference thread. tl;dr: RTFM
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[KEY TOPIC] Official LEGO Sets made in LDD
pbat replied to Calabar's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
You are right, actually it is unnecessary and redundant. But I found out that it is more convenient to have the LXFML file at hand: You don't have to rename the LXF file to ZIP, unzip that file, locate the folder where it got unpacked, rename the LXFML file to TXT, open it with your favorite editor, do some small adjustments, save the file, rename it back to LXFML, re-zip it, rename the ZIP file to LXF. Since LXFML files are plain text files, you can directly view them in the browser. I guess using LXFML files makes it way easier to check decoration IDs and colour IDs. I'm like the guy in the movie "Matrix" that looks at the source code flowing down and virtually "sees" the objects it represents, although the screen displays nothing but a total mess of glyphs. Another reason I prefer LXFML over LXF is the fact, that LDD suffered from a potential security hole by using outdated and vulnerable versions of LIBPNG and LIBZIB, so that a malicious attacker thus could have used a manipulated PNG inside a LXF file to spread malware. Although this was fixed about a year ago, I still doubt that LDD is perfectly secure: IT security is not the core competency of TLG and I can't imagine that LDD as a free giveaway will get expensive security audits and code reviews. And since plain text files offer a much smaller attack vector than PNG files inside a ZIP container, I rather use LXFML than LXF files. But since Calabar does not allow posts in this thread containing only the LXFML files, I adopted the habit of posting both LXFML and LXF files. I guess no one else does so, though, so you don't have to either.- 5,041 replies
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[KEY TOPIC] Official LEGO Sets made in LDD
pbat replied to Calabar's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
This is due to the fact that I used a color, that LDD does not officially support (336 - Silver Ink): Any file that contains unsupported colours will get such a blurry icon, indicating that this file might be corrupted. However, the file is fine in that case, simply LDD can't cope with that colour ID: Have a look at the various lattice plates used as doormats. They should be silver ink, but LDD displays them plain white. LXF files are in fact ZIP files that contain a PNG thumbnail and an LXFML file. The latter is a plain text file containing some XML dialect. materials="XXX" indicates the colour a brick has. If you open an LXFML file in a text editor like notepad, you can manually adjust those strings and enter colours you otherwise wouldn't be able to set in LDD itself. To get the various colour IDs have a look at the Peeron Colour Chart. The LEGOID column contains the values LDD uses as colour ID. But bear in mind that the PCC is neither complete nor up to date. A more complete list is available over at brickset.com, but that list includes only names, not numbers or IDs. Anyways, some googling helps in most cases. What is true for colours, applies in a similar fashion to decorations: In the LXFML file, decoration="0" indicates a brick that is not decorated but has one decoration surface, decoration="0,0" is not decorated but has two decoration surfaces etc. If you replace the zeros by appropriate decoration IDs, you can put decorations onto bricks that are decorateable but aren't prepared to get those specific decorations in LDD. LDD contains way more decorations than the ones accessible via the LDD GUI itself. If you know their IDs, you can add them manually to your sets. Have a look at the LDD Reference thread for further information: Although some years old by now, most information in that thread still applies today, except the fact that there are much more decorations by now (I guess the LDD Reference should get sort of an update regarding this issue). If you, however, mess with the XML in a way that LDD can't understand the content of the LXFML file any longer, LDD doesn't render the preview thumbnail but displays this error icon Vee wrote about. Unsupported material IDs, on the other hand, are not that much of a problem: Although you have this error icon, the file loads well and is displayed as intended, except that each unknown colour is of course not displayed correctly. If a future LDD update will add support for those colour, the file is, however, prepared and eventually will display the colour as intended. That's way I used the colour 336 for those bricks instead of let's say 309: 309 is currently supported in LDD and shows a nice silver, but it's hard to keep track which colour is supported in which version and which set has to get an colour update if an LDD update leverages the colour support. LDD has not such detailed publicly available release notes. I used a technique called scaffolding: You can freely move any part you like by using some helping construction. Have a look at this thread for some examples. bbqqq made some excellent foolproof videos that helped me a lot. So I used an inverted 30367 (as it mimics the desired shape), and put it in place using a light sword blade and a 4085 I later removed. To avoid collision errors, it's a good idea to close and reopen the file to check if the part gets removed. If so, you slightly have to adjust its position.- 5,041 replies
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[KEY TOPIC] Official LEGO Sets made in LDD
pbat replied to Calabar's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
No, I am no copycat, I uploaded the file I crafted on my very own: When I started building, 60045 was the last set posted. On saturday night I was about 2/3 done when I saw that kcoon had already posted set 10243. So I first finished the rest of my file, without planning to upload it, just for the fun of building it. That took most of the sunday. I wondered, however, why he/she was that quick and thus wanted to have a closer look at kcoon's LXF file, but brickshelf.com was down for some time during sunday evening. Thus I was only able to examine the file on monday. Since I didn't manage to circumvent the collision error on the roof without replacing bricks, I was especially interested how this issue was solved (since kcoon did not list it as an error in his/her post). I was pretty disappointed, when I realised that kcoon sort of cheated: If you take short cuts like using wrong bricks and omitting decorations, it's no wonder that you get a set done that quickly! And not listing the short cuts used is no fair play. So I changed my mind and decided to upload my version of the set as well: I am not the first one to finish it, so my post is technically a duplicate, but it is more thoroughly crafted and has nicer and more complete decorations. Well, the result is pretty much the same (since it is the same set), but I promise I did not use any portion of kcoon's file to get my work done -- scout's honour! I am a bit sad that the quickest (and thus least thorough) post gets the credits. I am no fan of "quick-and-dirty". I guess this set is too beautiful to use such an inaccurate representation as kcoon did, but feel free not to index my post, if you still think it is inappropriate. However, you then should definitely clarify the topic rules, since they currently say The thumbnail by the way is clickable: Click it to get a larger image.- 5,041 replies
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[KEY TOPIC] Official LEGO Sets made in LDD
pbat replied to Calabar's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
10243 - Parisian Restaurant - Theme: Advanced Models - Modular Buildings (LXFML-File, LXF-File) LDD 4.3.8, Brick version: 1264 (click for larger image) [Brickset] [Bricklink] [Peeron] [LEGO.com 1/2/3] Substitutions: LDD currently does not contain some of the bricks and decorations used in this set, so a bunch of substitutions had be used: 15672 (6069002) replaced by 92946 80269 (6052201) replaced by 4150 with deco 59487 16593 (6062411) replaced by 3068 with deco 603969 76382 (4275540) deco replaced by 605112 76116 (6006126) replaced by 98313 ????? (6061536) replaced by 63965 15068 (6046924) replaced by 2×11477 15396 (6058748) misses, not replaced by nothing 54200 (4504381) replaced by 50746 9336 (9336) replaced by 3626 with deco 55196 15672 (6069000) replaced by 92946 16592 (6062410) replaced by 87079 with deco 602057 3680 (368026) replaced by 74340 30002 (3000240) replaced by 6269 30070 (4569297) replaced by 3069 54196 (4278412) replaced by 2654 86209 (6024020) replaced by 60601 30059 (4219773) replaced by 4346 30011 (3001140) replaced by 3626 30068 (3006844) replaced by 3062 64288 (4567332) replaced by 59900 95275 (4619596) replaced by 3005 with deco 95551 54200 (4565363) replaced by 50746 97350 (4633881) replaced by 3068 with deco 97373 15068 (6061569) replaced by 2×11477 11153 (6042956) replaced by 61678 76382 (6022401) deco replaced by 601195 15395 (6058218) replaced by 30367 (scaffolded) 54200 (6023173) replaced by 50746 54200 (4504376) replaced by 50746 14428 (6047551) replaced by 93552 (colored in 192, 28 and 298) 54200 (4521921) replaced by 50746 15207 (6071299) replaced by 30413 3679 (4540203) replaced by 74340 15535 (6055313) replaced by 14769 11010 (6009771) replaced by 10067 16653 (6062750) replaced by 93551 with deco 94470 12163 (6019608) replaced by 93568 with deco 97265 13541 (6030333) replaced by 98138 with deco 55071 54200 (6002841) replaced by 50746 Remarks: Due to a collision error, the roof is not built as instructed (instruction 3, figure 31, page 42): 2× 3710 (4211001) are placed more inwards to get a fitting solution. The lattice plates 15561 (6051422) are coloured in 336 - Silver Ink, which LDD currently does not display too well. The part list contains the 4-knobed fence 15332 (6066113) while the instruction shows the 2-knobed one: I stuck to the part list and used the 4-knobed fence. Add the following to the list of errors: 1 brick gets removed when opening the LXF file (I guess it's the pillar of the lamp left to the chimney). The building actually hovers through the air, since the minifigures are placed too deep. The ring 11010 (6009771) is omitted. The two knives 44658 (4542586) are omitted. The brush 14428 (6047551) is coloured wrongly (the silver ring is missing). The palette 16653 (6062750) is not decorated, although the appropriate decoration is already included in LDD (ID 94470). The milk bag 95275 (4619596) is not decorated, although the appropriate decoration is already included in LDD (ID 95551). The minifig torso 76382 (4651703) is wrongly decorated, although the appropriate decorations are already included in LDD (IDs 99609 and 99610). The minifig torso 76382 (4649274) is wrongly decorated, although the appropriate decorations are already included in LDD (IDs 99158 and 99157). Due to a collision error, the roof is not built as instructed (instruction 3, figure 31, page 42): 2× 3710 (4211001) are replaced by 2×3023 (4211063) to get a fitting solution. The lattice plates 15561 (6051422) should be coloured in 336 - Silver Ink, but are actually colored in 309 - Silver Metallic, since LDD currently doesn't display 336 too well. I thus dared to upload a duplicate version of 10243 omitting some of those flaws.- 5,041 replies
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1. sounds like a caching issue. Maybe your ISP doesn't connect well to this particular Youtube server. Have you tried using a proxy to test it? Unsure what 2. and 3. might be. Test it with another browser like Chrome or Firefox: If it works there, it's an Opera issue. By the way: Do you still watch Youtube with Flash or do you use HTML5 instead? If Flash is used, try to toggle the hardware acceleration (if it's on, switch it off, if it's currently off, switch it on) and see if it makes any difference. Also check if other extensions like video downloaders might interfere or disturb the flash plugin. Try to force Youtube to use HTML5 via http://www.youtube.com/html5 or by disabling the Flash Plugin in Opera and check if it makes any difference. Check if Opera identifies itself as another browser and if so switch it to "Identify as Opera". Sometimes it might help to clear the cache / history and / or to use a fresh profile. But I'm virtually guessing now and have no idea, what actually goes wrong on your system. However, if other sites become affected, too, it might be a good idea to post that topic on sites like http://askubuntu.com (if you use Ubuntu) or http://productforums...#!forum/youtube .
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Way to delete bricks from LDD's Pallete
pbat replied to Takanuinuva's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
Have a look at this thread, please. -
Well, the idea of having animated, interactive building instructions was sort of overdue. Especially larger Technic sets will benefit a lot, when you see how toothed wheels, gears, cogs and crank axels fit together and peu à peu begin to work. Not every set, however, will benefit from interactive building instructions in the same way: Have a closer look at set 1061-1 and you know what I mean . Creator Expert sets or bigger Technic sets are definitely a good point to start this experiment. Maybe even more girls get into Technic, when they can see the beauty of a roaring engine in an animated way... But - and there is at least one big BUT here: Please don't do it as an app! Apps suck as long as they are platform-dependent: Focusing on iDevices and some two [!] hand-picked Androids is a slap in the face of everyone else, who rather uses a Surface or a classic PC, notebook or netbook. Please do it browser-based, preferably flash-free, with HTML5 and CSS3: We've almost 2014 and IE6 is finally dead, so every current browser should cope well with HTML5 and CSS3. Better yet, make animated interactive 3D building instructions a feature of LDD... I guess adolescents 14+ (who will most likely be the main target group of interactive building instructions for complex Technic sets) use "gated communites" and "golden cages" like App Store and Google Play too often too carelessley and should be trained to be more sceptical against predatory vendor lock-ins. So please don't use an app when the browser can achieve the same level of functionality! The other issue with animated interactive digital building instructions is this: Don't they kill imagination? If you see everything visually, you no longer have to imagine it in your mind. Won't LEGO lose some of its fascination if you no longer have to get the picture in your very mind? If you already see the 3D animated engine roaring in the building instruction, will it be as much fun building it as it is when you are using the plain old 2D instruction and have to imagine the 3D image on your very own? I always thought that those kind of mental transformations from 2D instructions to 3D models was the key mechanism that allows LEGO to boost ones spatial senses. Won't that get lost if the building instruction is 3D and rotatable and animated? Are there any cognition scientists around, who have consolidated findings about that topic?
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Merci beaucoup! No, I actually was not thinking at all . All I want is boosting my post count, so that I become an arch duke by the end of the year... Nah, just kidding. I just read this thread and was wondering how the façade might be done. Since there is no instruction available yet for set 10243, I tried to figure it out by looking at the images posted there, but still was not certain, how it was actually done. So I fired up LDD, fiddeled around a bit and soon had a prototype of a window that looked quite appealing. I was uncertain, however, how it works on a complete front, so I cobbled some of those window prototypes together to get a more complete impression. When the front was somewhat OK, i realized that 50745 is two studs wide and needs something on the second stud to look OK on the inner side, too. So I tinkered with those curtains. But since the building remained sort of barren inside, I raided my template library and added some interior decoration and equipment, too. When I got the feeling that it looked good from far but far from good, I decided to publish it here to get some feedback from more experienced MOCers, and maybe even a bunch of inspiration how to improve it. So c'mon folks, express yourself and don't economise criticism. I'm eager to learn and improve my building techniques.
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I'm happy to present you my latest LDD MOC. Actually it's my first LDD MOC to be published here on Eurobricks.com: »Bakery and Pension«: Similar to the Hotel Sacher you can buy cake and confectionery on the ground floor, and have a coffee there, too. Upstairs is a sleep alcove with a red bed, two bedside cabinets and a large foliage plant. Vis-à-vis is a working corner with a desk, a swivel chair and a small bar. Between those two corners is a generous balcony. Big plastering windows allow the sun to flood in, while heavy velvet curtains and golden fancy battens give the rooms a luxurious flair. (Click on a thumbnail to get a bigger image.) Some of the accessory is inspired by the set 41006 while the façade shall roughly fit to 10243. Please note that I did not bother if all the bricks exist in the respective colours in real life, so there's no guarantee you can rebuild this MOC with physical bricks.
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Unable to install Konstruktor
pbat replied to Meiko's topic in Digital LEGO: Tools, Techniques, and Projects
Since you use some GNOMEish desktop, I guess your ubuntu seems to have no idea where to look for the kdelibs5 sources. As far as I recall, you must first add the proper repository to the sources list to allow APT to find it. Something like sudo add-apt-repository [REPO CONTAINING THE LIB NEEDED] and then sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install kdelibs5 Alas, I have no idea, what repository is the right one for you. Maybe this link might be of some help. Maybe sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa/ppa might work. If not, feel free to head over to http://askubuntu.com/questions/ask and file your question there: The chances to get some linux experts are way better over there . -
And another one: 3960 fits atop 30139 and 2×6218, but not atop the similar 85941 as shown on page 9 figure 8 of the 1st instruction of set 60010. Likewise should 44375 fit atop 2×87926 as shown on page 14 subfigure 3 of the 2nd instruction of set 7939 and on page 8 figure 8 of the instruction of set 7591: LDD does not allow this connection even if the illegal plate 60474 is omitted. By the way, since there are at least two distinct sets not older than 3 years using this connection I doubt this is that much illegal. To make a long story short, 85941 and 87926 should adopt the behaviour of 6218 and attach to their respective lid.