Steinkopf

Indexed by Moderator Hello Everyone I would like to showcase my latest addition to the LBB fleet the Tm 2/2 class shunting locomotive, this compact modern design has been purchased by the LBB as part of a modernization plan which will improve the efficiency of the LBB network and provide a greater movement of freight through more frequent and faster services. The Tm 2/2 will take over the running of trip freight and branchline freight services that had ben previously taken care of by the venerable Tm 3/3 class shunters, they will also be used for some of the more heavier shunting duties which will allow for the redeployment of the Tm 3/3 locomotives to lighter duties which will help lengthen the lifespan of those 40+ year old locomotives. The Tm 2/2 are slightly shorter than the Tm 3/3 and have only 2 axles compared to the older locos 3 axles, the performance of the Tm 2/2 is however vastly superior compared to their predecessors with a top speed of 70km/h and a rating of 350hp these small locomotives are highly capable units that can perform a wide variety of tasks. This MOC was inspired by a wide variety of small modern shunter designs from manufacturers such as Schoma, Stadler and Vossloh, they include the SBB Tm 232.1, Mak G 400 and RhB Tm 2/2.

It's up to the individual as a consumer with that and it depends how far they want to get into it, for many EBay and PAB are probably the more obvious solutions available to them, for people who are more dedicated Bricklink would be the best option.

Maybe you should have a good hard look in the mirror with your assertion about me making assumptions. Regarding the demise of 9v Trains that has not deterred me from using it, to counter the future lack of availability of parts for that system I invested in purchasing enough stock to fulfil my future needs, all of my powered stock use the part ref 590 9v Train Motors, I do not own any PF powered trains and I have no desire to purchase any in the near future. The only battery powered train sets I have purchased are 2 of the 7898 IR Cargo Train sets which I used for parts, with the chassis and motors from them I gave one to my son and the other to one of my friends to use. When I got into 9v trains the only sets that were available from retailers here was from the World City range which there were no extra wagon sets to go with it, rather than moan and groan like some jaded collector because the items they want are no longer available I decided to build my own rolling stock to get around that problem.

Do you have any statistics that would prove that this group is of a sizeable percentage of the sales demographics that would make it justifiable/viable to commit to the producing those sets, also what is the anticipated sales volume, sales sustainability and growth potential with that group, I bet you Lego has already done their homework with that one.

I took it as sarcasm more than anything else. Seriously speaking though if you are unhappy with what's available make your own designs, you will actually find it far more satisfying than purchasing an overpriced box full of parts and you will have what you actually need or want.

The days of Train being a standalone theme are long gone and to ensure the viability and survival of them they have been merged within the City theme this makes good sense as trains are a supplementary item to the City range, this may mean that there are less train sets available compared to the past but at least it guarantees the availability of train sets. From what I can see Lego has made a lot of effort to ensure that train fans are supplied with a decent number of sets with a wide diversity of models, this approach may not suit people such as yourself but it is probably the most workable solution for the company at the moment.

To be honest Carrera124 if you are so unhappy with the lack of individual locomotives or pieces of rolling stock and other accessories maybe you should switch to normal model railways such as Marklin, Roco, Fleischmann or Piko. That way you will always have the ability to purchase a wide range of individual models as well as the ability to buy sets, another bonus is that there are always a decent number of new sets introduced each year to satisfy your collecting habit. Seriously speaking you can complain as much as you want about Lego not doing what you want them to do but at the end of the day it's not going to change anything, many of us in the train community are well aware of this situation due to events in the past. About 5 years ago a large number of Lego train fans directly complained to the company about the discontinuation of the 9v train range and there was the Save 9v Trains campaign, despite all of our efforts Lego did not change it's decision and consigned the 9v Train range to history. The core market for Lego trains is young boys between 6 to 12 years of age and the main aim is to satisfy that market for the duration that this age group will be engaged in the hobby, it's not going to entertain the whims and fancies of a small group of Adult collectors regardless of how much they complain.

I am well aware of what happened in the 80s as I was in my teens when the 12v Trains range was released, the fact is with those other products their core market back then was teenagers and adults, that fell well outside Lego core target group so the competition back then in all reality was less than it is today. The example given by Cwetqo by observing the kids in a TRU passing over a Maersk Train and purchasing a 3677 Cargo Train instead is a good point, kids want something with a level of functionality and interaction not something that just sits there and collects dust. Likewise Lego and the retailers want products that move in decent volumes instead of sitting on the shelves collecting dust. The current marketing strategy used by Lego may not be to your liking and may not fit your needs or desires but at the end off the day it works very well and will ensure the future of Trains as a theme.

I have spoken to a number of highly placed TLG employees over the years regarding the train theme, the view expressed by all is that it has always been a hard nut to crack compared to other themes. Another fact that you have ignored is this is not the 1980s or 1990s things have progressed rapidly these days and the level of competition that toy manufacturers face from outside the indusrty. These days the toy market has to compete against games consoles or hand held units such as Gameboy and PSP, the video game industry was in it's infancy back in the 80s and 90s and was not a serious competitor back then compared to the massive busineses that they have become now.

Generally speaking the people you are trying to describe would not even reach 0.01% of TLGs sales demographic, for the company to pour so much energy into trying to entertain such a miniscule amount of people is not worth the effort and would be pretty much a pointless exercise. My comment was that you show your relatives how to purchase parts and give them basic pointers, I never stated that you should go forth and educate the masses of grandparents etc on a global scale. At train shows myself and other members of my club are regularly asked by parents, grandparents and a whole host of associated members of the public as to where and how to purchase parts, we offer them advice and even write down details to sites such as Bricklink and S@H as well as the retailers who carry the basic trainsets, this is an example of how you can help foster growth of the hobby.

Trying to use the baseless arguement of that was back then and not now doesn't wash, regardless of whether it was 10 years ago or 5 years ago the facts still stand the sales performance of single pieces of rolling stock was majorly lacking when compared to other sets and themes, you cannot blame Lego for making the commercial desicions that they have especially when they have fairly recent historical events to guide them. There are a good number of us here who have been building and collecting trains for quite a few years as well as being actively involved in the Lego train community, we have seen events unfold over the years and have a far better appreciation of the facts and the way things have evolved, I have been building and collectig trains for nearly 10 years and displaying them in public for over 6 years. Maybe if you actually took some time to listen to the sage advice that we are offering you due to our vast experience in the hobby instead of you relentlessly banging your drum you might actually realise the situation. Regarding the comment about Grandparents, Aunties and Uncles finding it difficult to find items to give as gifts this is an opportunity for you to take a lead and give your relatives advice on how to purchase parts online so they can be given as a gift, have you ever thought off giving them a list of what parts they would need to give kids the ability to build their own desigs. Taking a proactive stance like that is what helps move the hobby forward rather than continually moaning and groaning about things which will get you nowhere, there is a bright future for all of us with the Lego train theme as TLG is continually bringing out new sets which shows they are actively supporting the theme, the vision for the future may be one that some people don't like or have invisiged but at the end of the day there is a future. Many of us have been through some fairly dark periods with the train theme especially when the 9v range got axed which too many of us was seen as the end but wind the clock forward 5 years the Lego trains theme has grown from strength to strength.

The only one that is continually ignoring the facts here is you, as to the issues with the Santa Fe and My Own Train it was not 10 years ago it was in fact 5 years ago, it was in early to mid 2007 when S@H did a massive clearance of what had become pretty much deadwood in retail terms. With the trains theme Lego actually gives it a lot more leeway compared to other themes, most themed sets have a life cycle of between 1 to 2 years and after that they are deleted the train sets in general are given a run of between 2 to 3 years before they are deleted. The situation with the My Own Train series which was introduced in 2001 and the Santa Fe Super Chief introduced in 2002 was that they had become major dust collectors that were taking up much needed storage space for newer stock, they failed to move withiin their expected run cycle and basically sat on the shelves for 2 to 3 years more than should have and you wonder why Lego doesn't make single pieces of rolling stock as sets any more. These days I think train fans are very well catered for when you have a look at the number of sets that have been released since 2010, also the focus on train designs and attention to detail has lifted substantially when you compare them to trains that were available in the past, the designs these days actually look like real life trains and have been inspired by actual prototypes, unlike 4559, 4560 and 4561 which look absolutely nothing like a train. Also it is far easy to access train parts compared to 10 years ago, there are a decent number of train parts available through PAB at S@H I will say though it would be nice if PAB had a bit more variety with the parts available, then there is Bricklink where you can get pretty much anything and everything that you want.

Very nice work there HenrikLego, I especially like how you have done the curved platform.

The fact is Lego has been there and done that all before and it failed, as mentioned by myself amd others the My Own Train series and the Santa Fe Super Chief had good initial sales but failed to gain traction with follow on sales, the only time they did move in substantial numbers was when they were put on clearance and snapped up by the vultures from Ebay and Bricklink. I can certainly understand the companies viewpoint why should they invest in a product that they will lose money on, especially when later on there will be a small group of individuals that will profiteer from the very limited availability of that product due to it's demise.

I can give you two examples of deliveries to my country that have a large variance in numbers and this was due to the nature of the sets, the UCS Millenium Falcon 10179 had 800 units shipped into the country and was an exclusive item for Kmart, the first run on the Cool Cruiser 5767 was about 5,500 units. Given the sheer size and cost of 10179 and the fact that it was primarily a S@H exclusive you can understand the lower volume, on the other hand 5767 which is a more common medium sized set had what could be considered a typical release delivery which would be topped up by a number of deliveries over its life cycle dependant on the numbers that move over a period of time. Another point I would like to make is that in the 1990s during the golden era of 9v trains I'm my country the individual wagons moved very slowly, I remember seeing a whole heap of 4536 Blue Hoppers and 4537 Octan Tankers on clearance in one of the main retailers who stocked them. At that point they had been sitting on the shelves for over 2 years, unfortunately for me I was into traditional model railways at the time and didn't buy any. In general what I have seen is that a lot of the trainsets seem to languish there on the shelves, this in a retailers perspective is no good as they are relying on a decent turnover to generate revenue, having shelf space occupied by an item that hasn't budged in the last 2 years is not good for business.

Seriously you can argue your point as much as you like but you are continually going around in circles, trying to use EBay sales to justify your arguement doesn't wash as the volume of units is just not there, if you understand the scope of production then maybe you would have a better grasp on the situation. To make sets profitable when you factor in the cost of designing, printing, packaging and instructions for these sets you are looking at units in the 100,000+ mark, also consider the global reach of the supply chain the numbers are massive, a first release to one country of a set will be easily over 5,000 units factor in the number of countries Lego delivers too then you get an idea of the volume. Just because a few sellers on EBay are able to sell 50 or 100 individual pieces of rolling stock means nothing when you consider that to make a set profitable Lego has to produce more than 1000 times that number.

The fact is for the vast bulk of parents who buy a Lego train set for their children they are doing so to supplement the child's Lego City collection, most parents aren't overly concerned with trying to make a serious attempt of having a Lego train layout as trains are just seen as and add on. With your nephews have you thought about buying a good selection of train parts from S@H or Bricklink as a gift and showing them how to make trains, I know with kids that standard sets don't stay intact for long and tend to be pulled apart and made into something else, I know this from personal experience watching my son in action. I have given him the Emerald Night, 10173 Xmas Train and 7897 Passenger Train as well as some other train parts including the RC Train base from 7898, all of these now form a massive jumble of parts that reside somewhere in one of his Lego containers. Kids derive a great deal of pleasure with making their own creations and in many respects this is one of the core principles of the Lego company that being that there are boundless building possibilities and that you are only limited by your imagination.

Lego was selling just as well back then as it does now, the fact is individual pieces of rolling stock do not sell well, the hardest thing about trains is that due to the vast differences of railway equipment around the world it is very hard to find a set that has universal appeal, what maybe highly popular with Europeans may have little appeal with people in the US and Vice Versa, the Santa Fe Super Chief was a classic example. Take my advice if you are not happy with what is on offer make your own, I have quite a substantial collection of locomotives and rolling stock which are built to a higher standard compared to the typical Lego train sets and I am far more happier that I went down that path rather than collecting standard sets.

The fact is the last time Lego did sell individual wagons with the My Own Train theme, Santa Fe Super Chief coaches and the TTX Double Stack Container Car they did not sell well, the only exception was when they were put on clearance after sitting on the S@H site for over 2 years and they were mainly snapped up by the truckload by resellers on EBay and Bricklink, those resellers then pushed the prices up for those items well above their original retail price. Rather than complaining about the lack of train sets have you ever thought about making your own, there are plenty of ways to source parts at reasonable prices to make trains compared to 10 years ago, also with building your own trains it's generally cheaper compared to buying sets and you can make exactly what you want plus it brings a great deal of personal satisfaction that you did it yourself. About 9 years ago when I got into building Lego 9v trains I was rather dissatisfied with what was available at the time, I also had a look at older sets and decided for what they are they were way to expensive and to be frank just didn't have the detail that I was after, I then decided to build my own designs and was able to make what I wanted and to be honest it's the best move I have ever made.

Have you had a look at the Lego Trains MOC group on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/groups/legotrains/ , the group has builders from all around the world who model a wide variety trains, there is quiet a number of us who build European styled trains.

You have a very good point about the Red Train Doors, before the Hobby Train set came out they were very rare in new condition and were as dear as poison even in used condition, I have a very nice stockplie of Red and Green Train Doors that I sourced from Bricklink and Shop @ Home for future projects . [1] You can always divert this thread to 16+ where such behaviour is not only condoned it's encouraged .

The funny thing about the last Christmas Train set was that it was a far better parts pack when compared to the Hobby Train set.

Thanks everyone for the replies, I still have a bit of work to do with the exterior of the building adding some details such as the compressors for the chillers and coolroom, after that I will be working on the rest of a larger model which the butchers shop will be incorporated into. Hello Steifen, yes that room is the chiller, there is a 3 fan refrigeration unit in there to make sure it maintains a low temperature for safe storage of the meat . Thanks soccerkid6, the mincer was one of the more challenging models as it required minimum parts to maintain it's small size yet still be able to capture the look having the right mix of parts is essential, it's a rather simple but effective model that does the job. The handle/latch for the coolroom door screamed out for chrome and using the handlebars worked a treat.

Hello Everyone Earlier this year when the Series 6 Minifigs became available I purchased a few Butchers with a view to building a Butchers Shop which would become part of a city layout in the future. With a major exhibition looming around the corner I was struggling for ideas to fill space on a section of the layout I am building, then it hit me why not build a Butchers Shop as part of a building that would occupy that space, I had been mulling over some ideas for a while on how to model some of the features and I had been collecting parts to build them now it was time to swing it all into action. With this model I have tried to fit it with all the essential elements that you would find in the average butchers shop, there is a display area in the front window to show products to the customers and a counter area for serving them, the most essential part of the build though is the back area of the shop. The coolroom in particular was a fun build as I wanted to have carcasses hanging from the railings, when the new 5 link chains came out I saw their potential straight away and thought about how to incorporate them into a build as they were perfect for the job. Other features include prep benches one for slicing meat and the other that has a mincer which is also used for making sausages, there is also a sink area for washing and a rack to hang the tools of the trade. Overhead views showing the general layout. Coolroom with door open Mincer Bench and Coolroom. Front Window display and counter area I hope you all enjoy the work I have done

This station is absolutely beautiful and would have to rank as one of the best stations ever built, I am particularly impressed with how you have maintained a high level of detail in such a large model.