Flipz

There's still differences in advancing to Advanced classes, though. Druid is a straight upgrade from Cleric in every way, but it's still different; your healing is now even more important, and you have to manage your Ether so you have enough to raise your party on a SHIELD, not to mention attacking becomes even more viable with Aim and the ability to use ranged weapons. There's definite incentives there to change up your playstyle to make the most of your new class; with Prophet, there's zero reason to alter your existing playstyle. If you're a Druid with even a half-decent ranged weapon, there's zero reason to even try casting spells; if you're a Sage or another mage class with lots of gems, there's zero reason to even try healing or attacking physically. To my mind, a mix of three classes should also have a mixture of all three playstyles, the way the Advanced classes generally do, and frankly none of the non-Mime Master classes get that mixture quite right. But that's just it, if Matthias is going to be doing the exact same thing as a Prophet as he is as a Druid, how is that actually progressing? Matthias is still recognizable as being the same character he was as a Ranger, but since becoming a Druid his actions and behavior have changed--he now takes time out to heal his teammates, and he manages things like Ether supply that he didn't have to worry about before. So what is he going to do differently as a Prophet? Not cast spells, obviously, we both know his weapon is way too good for that. Meditate to restore Ether? Okay, that's different, but it's also the big thing that makes QMs want to give Prophet a one-way ticket to nerftown; unless we give Prophet a reason to be chewing through Ether ten times as quickly as any other class, it's very likely that the meditation will either get nerfed into the ground or axed entirely by the time Matthias gets to it, since the Ether restoration is what makes the combination attack and heal/revive so scary to QMs (that is, they can't Ether-starve Prophet the way they can Druid). Druid is already one of the most powerful (but balanced) classes in the game, so having Prophet be "better Druid" is both boring AND a major factor in making it a prime nerf target; the two problems go hand-in-hand.

Damn it, Pie! Ah well, gives me more time to work on sets, I guess...

It doesn't have to be a totally different strategy, but I feel that a player should have to stop and think after a class change if they want to be successful; sure, a Ranger can easily play Assassin exactly the same way they did before, but then they don't get the benefits of deliberately targeting enemies that aren't immune to instant kill, or a Mage can continue to play Sorcerer just like they did as a Mage, but then they miss out on targeting gold-carrying enemies to gain extra Gold. In Matthias' case, he has little to no reason to change up from melee attacks in the Back Row, because his weapon only does its AoE effects on physical attacks, and his healing is completely unchanged from Druid. I suppose he might choose to meditate once in a while, but if meditation is the defining feature of the class...well, I mean, that's also the exact part people are complaining about, isn't it? And see, there's the problem; there's no drawback to the class when switching from Druid or even Sage. With most other class changes, you make the change because you know you'll have more fun with the new class, but it's because you'll gain the ability to do more cool things with the new class than you'll lose by leaving the old one; at the very least, you know your play experience will be different as your new class that it would be by keeping the old one. Now, I'm not saying we need to massively change-up Prophet to fix this particular problem, but if people are dead-set on changing things in the name of basically untested balance, then I'd like those changes to be in areas that will make Prophet feel different from just "better Druid" or "better Sage". ...I think this must be the fifth time I've mixed up Hybros' and Benji's Master Class plans in my head.

They seem fine to me, but it has been several hours. Maybe a temporary outage? EDIT: ah, I think I found the cause: site maintenence. They're going in and out for me as well, now.

If it is, Paragon sure isn't doing a very good job of it, and Mime is apparently so unappealing that the only PC to take the class has left the game, satisfied with merely reaching it rather than playing as it.

I just don't like it when there's exactly one class that makes perfect sense for every single character of a given class to advance to. It's why I dislike Raider outright (obvious choice for both Rogues and Barbarians), and why I tend to dislike the Knight->Paladin path; you end up just doing the exact same thing you were doing, just with more shiny things attached. It's the problem I had with Althior in most of 137, actually; he barely had to reconsider his playstyle at all, he just continued to act as a powerful Mage with an extra-fancy SHIELD. I appreciated it when he actually tried meditating in battle, because it was different than just saying "I cast [element] at [enemy weak to element]" and "repeat" for fourteen turns in a row. (No offense to you, K-Nut, it's really more a shortcoming in the class. ) I don't mind classes being more powerful, even to the point of being objectively better, I just want them to be different. And yes, there's the Veteran Classes that do exactly that, but a.) unlike the other classes, that's the specific purpose, and b.) because of their unique abilities, the Veteran Classes actually do encourage a rethinking of strategy (case in point, Archmage's arc casting or Guardian Knight's Aura of Honor). Let me ask you this, if Matthias were somehow granted Prophet access early (as in right now, in the middle of your battle), would your strategy change at all?

"Er...also...second thought...if we flood the residential section, won't that be cutting off our own exit? We'll again have the same problem, only I'll be trapped down here permanently instead." "<I have spent time refining my spiritual powers. With my will reinforcing the Heroes' own, I am confident a numbers disadvantage may be countered with an advantage of fortune.>" "And I'd be happy to give Vindsval a Nostrum just to tip the odds even further. Hel, if Vindsval Poisons that Xeno Whip and then I pour my own two venoms on top of it, Lind could use it to great effect as well."

"Please. I've been to the bottom of the ocean, fought sea monsters as scary as any Dragon. Let's just say it's a...somewhat recently-acquired medical condition, and leave it at that." "No offense, Siercon, but as much as I trust your spellcasting ability, there are two problems with it. One," Arthur says, setting one foot into the bubble and causing it to dissipate, "is the anti-magic aura of my helmet. I can unequip it, of course, but that then leaves me even more vulnerable to Water than I already am. And two..." Arthur pauses, remembering. "I've already had an underwater air bubble pop on me before, I'm not keen on repeating the experience. Princess Ella and I nearly died that time, and well...let's just say that a repeat occurrence would be one hundred percent fatal to me." "<You would not lose my aid,>" Miirym interjects. "<As reluctant as I am to leave him, these Proggs seem formidable, and these tunnels seem relatively safe, for the moment. I will accompany you to Billow, regardless of Arthur's presence or lack thereof.>" "Guys," Arthur adds, "don't worry about me. I'll be fine here, I could maybe even lend a hand. I am something of an engineer, as the Lion Knights can attest, and a former miner to boot. I'd frankly be more useful down here; at most you'd lose the strength of my weapons, and in that case I'd be happy to lend them to Siercon and Jinnipher for as long as we're separated." "<...very well. I believe Arthur's and my vote goes to swimming, then, considering he is willing to remain behind.>"

I have this hilarious image in my mind now of some character (preferably a leprechaun or a gnome) bribing a particularly lazy and apathetic troll to be their mount. xD RE: Prophet: I still feel like Prophet hasn't gotten a decent run-through. No offense to Kinto, but the battles in 137 were not well suited to show off a Prophet's strength, especially since it was a small party to begin with and they kept splitting up on top of it, not to mention the party already having a healer besides Althior to keep everyone topped up, so Althior only had to continue to be a glorified Mage. Everyone is still crying "battle reset", but as far as I remember Althior didn't raise a single party member during the entirety of the Quest. (...Yup, just double-checked, Althior got exactly one SHIELD and it only healed, it didn't revive.) Now, in fairness, it is incredibly powerful, but "battle reset" isn't a fair argument considering a.) Druid exists and works just fine since the revival ether cost nerf, as has been proven several times with Druids running out of Ether, and b.) as just mentioned, the Ether revival nerf has already happened and still hasn't been tested in terms of practicality. IMO, Paragon needs to be buffed before we start tinkering with Prophet again. Its "Truce" needs to be replaced with something better, and IMO letting the Paragon gain Gold equal to the enemy's level whenever they defeat an enemy (not just on a SHIELD) would go a long way towards leveling the gap between it and Prophet, giving it a bit of the tactical depth that Prophets get. IF (and I stress this as a HUGE if) afterwards Prophet still needs a nerf, I'd say make it cost 1 Ether per negative effect removed, and make the Ether restoration happen only if the Prophet was choosing to meditate (and in that case, the amount should be something like 1/2 the Prophet's Level, to make it more powerful than Meditate to Nirvana and to make up for it not happening automatically). OH! And if the "1 extra Ether per effect removed" nerf does get put into place, Druids should be exempt; they don't have the Ether pool to actually pull that off, and in that way it gives Druid a bit of an advantage over Prophet, so that Druid->Prophet needs at least a little consideration before making the switch. Thought: if the concern is that Prophets are regaining more Ether than they're burning (and reminder, Althior is a terrible example for this because he's permanently Transcended), maybe their spells need to do something interesting that justifies them costing additional Ether? Maybe Prophet spells can be cast with multiple elements at 1 Ether per element used (and the same thing would apply to SHIELD)? Yes, it makes them more powerful, but frankly if the issue is Ether restoration then you've got to give them something to spend it on; after all, even a basic Mage at Level 50 barely uses their Ether supply unless they're casting Scrolls out the wazoo with a Lens of Speed-Reading. Perhaps Prophets should be incentivized to burn Ether on Scrolls more often, either through free Scroll actions like the Lens grants or through being able to burn extra Ether to improve Scroll odds? I'm just spitballing ideas at this point, since everyone seems so convinced that Prophet needs the nerf-bat and we don't really have that much usable usage data to tell us what actually needs to be changed. Definitely agree that Meditate needs a little extra something to give it some oomph, though, especially on Paladin in particular. Maybe restoring Ether based on WP?

Based on the above discussion in the Expert Classes topic...would an animal NPC with the class of Ranger and/or the Animal Talk Job Trait be able to communicate in plain speech? I'm inclined to go with "yes", but I'm curious to others' opinions.

...hmm...welp, time to go ask a glaringly basic rules question I actually don't know the answer to.

Ooh, pretty! ...you know, it's a shame we didn't get this all worked up before 102. This would have been the perfect class for Russel & Pigley, and that would have been a very nice test for the class. I'll have to come up with a suitable excuse/NPC to test this out in the future.

I'm going to take a crack at re-writing WBD's Cavalier slightly, incorporating all the most recent feedback: (Requires Cavalier's Saddle) Cavaliers rush into battle atop their mighty steeds inspiring their party to further glory. Health Bonus: +14 Weapons: Lances, Great Swords, Long Swords, Hammers, Maces Job Traits: Mounted – Cavaliers are permanently hastened as long as their mount is sufficiently healthy (see MOUNTS below); Extended Reach – Cavaliers may strike enemies in the back row with full strength; Animal Talk(See Ranger) Battle style: Overpowering: Cavaliers dole out piercing blows foiling even the most thorough of enemy defenses and tactics. 1. SHIELD: Heroic Charge – The Cavalier leads the party in a routing of the enemy forces dealing damage equal to their weapon power plus their level that ignores SP to all enemies in the target’s row; if no target was chosen, the Cavalier's Mount recovers up to two Strength instead. Additionally, the party member immediately after the Cavalier is guaranteed to roll a SHIELD, the following party member a CRITICAL HIT (or equivalent), and the following party member a HIT (or equivalent). 2. CRITICAL INTREPID HIT/ INVIGORATING SPEECH: The Cavalier does damage with strength equal to two times their weapon power plus their level that ignores SP. Alternatively the Cavalier can give an invigorating speech, increasing the Level, HP, and SP of the Cavalier and the party members directly above and below them in the Battle Order by 15 during the next round. 3. INTREPID HIT/ROUSING SPEECH: The Cavalier does damage with strength equal to their weapon power plus their level that ignores SP. Alternatively the Cavalier can give a rousing speech, increasing the Level, HP, and SP of the Cavalier and the party members directly above and below them in the Battle Order by 10 during the next round. 4. INTREPID COUNTER/GALLANT SPEECH: The Cavalier is struck by the opponent’s attack but counters with an attack that does damage with strength equal to their weapon power plus their level that ignores SP. Alternatively the Cavalier takes the next attack directed against another party member and gives a gallant speech increasing the Level, HP, and SP of the Cavalier and the party members directly above and below them in the Battle Order by 5 during the next round. 5. DAMAGE/FORGETTABLE SPEECH: The Cavalier is struck by the opponent's attack. Alternatively the Cavalier gives a forgettable speech that fails to accomplish anything. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/DEMORALIZING SPEECH: The Cavalier is struck by the opponent’s special attack. Alternatively the Cavalier accidentally demoralizes their allies, decreasing the Level, HP, and SP of the Cavalier and the party members directly above and below them in the Battle Order by 5 during the next round. MOUNTS: Upon training in the class, the Cavalier must choose a mount; this mount may be of any non-Dragon species the character is capable of riding. The Cavalier's mount has strength equal to the Cavalier's number of usable Artifact slots (i.e. Mount Strength 4 at Level 30). Any attack, Special Damage, or Free Hit that strikes the Cavalier reduces the mount's strength by 1, even if the Cavalier's SP reduces the damage to 0. The mount cannot be healed in battle, but automatically heals to full strength at the battle's conclusion. I'm still not 100% sure on the SHIELD, I'm tempted to take it down even further to just Level, considering how powerful the roll manipulation is. I was originally only going to let the Mount Strength recover by 1, but then realized a particularly unlucky Cavalier (*cough*anycharacterplayedbyLegonater*cough* ) could potentially lose the benefit of the steed's recovery immediately after getting their mount back from a SHIELD and potentially mess up the party's planned Free Hits; recovering 2 strength lets them roll Counter, Damage, or Special Damage on their first action while still being able to attack again, thus making it slightly more reliable to strategize around. I feel like Mounts might need more elaboration; I was originally going to list it as "any non-flying species the character is capable of riding", but then I thought about people wanting to ride griffins and pegasi and alicorns, and changed it to only non-Dragons (so as not step on Dragoon's toes). What do you guys think? Do flying mounts step on other classes' toes (i.e. Winged Warrior's Fly job trait/Dragoon's dragon companion), or are they fine for this class?

Again, though, Minstrel and Chi Monk use Ether (and the latter is more of an offensive Cleric class than a true support class). Alchemist is a physical support class, but it functions very differently than Cavalier. Skirmisher is a passive support class, and it functions as a tank rather than an attacking class--again, another reason why Cavalier would fill a very unique niche. (And additionally, Skirmisher is specifically unavailable unless Doc starts hosting again, he's been very insistent in the past that it only be awarded to those who perform exceptional service for the Lion Knights.) And if we're going to pull for the Master class ideas again, I still want to push Mystic Warden. I'm with MDM on this one. His amended Tactician seems a little complicated, but it's definitely better than the actively detrimental Truce. If Tactician is too much, perhaps Truce could be changed to preventing Free Hits against the entire party? (Yeah, stealing from Regulator, but now that Pie's left the class I doubt we'll see Regulators again, sadly.) I don't like the idea of Veni Vidi Vici reducing enemy levels, I do think it should deal significantly more damage. I also agree with Pie's idea of letting the "gain Gold per enemy defeat" ability apply to all of the class' rolls, it fits the nature of the class and makes attacking even more appealing. Ehh...I've always disliked the Berserker's SHIELD skill, and to a lesser extent Berserker in general. Neither Black Knight's nor Berserker's SHIELD-skills seem particularly well-suited to Paragon, IMO they're both better left to their respective Advanced Classes.

"Wait...full of water? That, er...might be a problem for me." "<You cannot swim?>" "No...well, not anymore. I can't be immersed in water. Anything past ankle-high is a serious problem--just getting down here was incredibly risky, for me anyway." "<But-->" "Go with them. If the tunnel gets drained, I'll join you, otherwise I'll wait back here with the Proggs, see if there's anything I can do while staying dry."

Miirym sniffs. "<So. Another arrogant tyrant, in the vein of Bellerai.>" She sighs sadly. "<There are Dragons I would entrust such power to. That, and more, in truth. But then again, she is a sort most like to refuse it, even were it offered freely. Perhaps that speaks to the nature of power, and of those worthy of it.>" Careful to keep himself out of the water, Arthur edges his way over to the younger Cour brother. "Masson," Arthur asks quietly, "were you and the Syndicate given such an offer, or were you merely snuffed out?"

Gallant Speech would need to be altered, then, since it mentions getting hit by an enemy. Maybe on a Gallant Speech the Cavalier takes the next attack directed at a party member, or protects themself and the party members above and below them from Free Hits? Alternatively, it could restore their mount's strength by 1 if it isn't completely down, though that might make it too powerful. I'd initially written up a 5 roll for speeches called "Forgettable Speech" as well as a 6 roll for "Demoralizing Speech", so great minds think alike I suppose. I'd definitely like to see this class become a thing, it's a nice niche between Dragoon and Minstrel that hasn't been filled yet, especially since it's a support class that doesn't rely on Ether; nice to have something besides Alchemist that can do that, especially since it does so in a very different way.

Miirym snorts derisively, a cloud of black mist billowing around her as a result. "<Ridiculous. The will of a powerful foe is not incontrovertible. All things, from the rocks to mortals to heat to the invisible air, exert will unto the world. Even the tiniest grains of sand exert their own will. And the will of a great many grains of sand may doom even the most vicious opponent to a swift, crushing grave.>"

"Eh, they seem better than the last Progg I met. The youngsters were all right, but that one..." Arthur shakes his head, chasing away the shameful memories. "<I'm sorry,>" Miirym offers, a tinge of bitterness in her "voice". "<It seems you've gotten a poor impression of my race. I just wish there was some way I could mend the damage.>"

To bring up this concept again, perhaps the Cavalier would only be mounted (and thus Hastened) until they take a certain number of hits, to match the mechanic we've seen on mounted enemies? Perhaps something like this: Mounted – Cavaliers are permanently hastened as long as their mount is sufficiently healthy. (in character stats:) Example Du Cavalier, Level 30 Cavalier *Permanently Hastened* Power Bonus: +2 HP: 50/50 Mount Strength: 4/4 hits MOUNTS: The Cavalier's mount has strength equal to the Cavalier's number of usable Artifact slots (i.e. Mount Strength 4 at Level 30). Any attack, Special Damage, or Free Hit that strikes the Cavalier reduces the mount's strength by 1, even if the Cavalier's SP reduces the damage to 0. The mount cannot be healed in battle, but automatically heals to full strength at the battle's conclusion. Question: does delivering a speech count as targeting an enemy (and thus risking Damage and Special Damage)? At first I thought the answer was no, but then I saw the way you worded Gallant Speech and got confused.

"<Specifically, there is an ally we must reach before we can take our battle to our enemy. Your underground domain is our best chance to reach them.>"

Damn. Every time I re-read 70 for reference, I realize how much I've forgotten about how good the roleplaying was from all quarters.

Arthur sighs as he watches the headquarters of the group he'd once fought--and then fought to save--burns to the ground. He shakes his head in disappointment. "If I didn't know any better, I'd think our enemy was trying to destroy Eubric the slow way, instead of just erasing it directly." He turns his attention to Octavyn. "So what now? I know you've got the bar still, but as for the rest of the group...is this the end of the Syndicate? What are you going to do without a headquarters, just get absorbed directly into the Watch? Or is everyone just going back to their everyday lives?" "<You underestimate my kind. To do so is to risk your demise. Immortalis is an Elder of our race. They are strong of mind, and of spirit--of this, I can attest directly. True, they may act in error, but not in carelessness. This is no natural storm. To assume the bolt itself was is folly.>" Miirym eyes Octavyn and Gabriel beadily. "<Regardless of intention, however, the fact remains that Immortalis is responsible for all of this, one way or another. I do not mean to diminish your current suffering, but if you wish to stop the one responsible for this destruction, we could greatly use your aid.>" "She's right," Arthur adds Diplomatically. "You are...quite the lethal fighter, Gabriel, and we'd do well with you at our side. And as for you, Octavyn, well..." Despite the seriousness of the situation, the ex-Watchman can't help but rub the back of his neck and smile ruefully. "Some of us know from experience you pack one Hel of a hit." "<Once we have completed our preparations, we will need to infiltrate our opponent's stronghold. Those versed in stealth, like you and the members of your organization seem to be, will be of particular help to us. And when it comes time to face him, I believe we will all appreciate having as many allies as possible.>"

OOC: I don't think it changes anything, but Arthur changed his gear on turn 1 and only attacked on his second turn--he still would have been safe from Column B, but Siercon should have been casting his spells at Column A if it was still around. "Octavyn--was anyone else inside? It's unlikely, but if there's even a chance there were survivors..." Miirym, meanwhile, addresses the party at large. "<This building was struck by lightning. Based on Siercon's intelligence of Immortalis' elemental affinity...I harbor great doubt that this was coincidence. Do any of you know why Immortalis would target the Syndicate?>"