doug72

Rotating structure and jib completed: Due to limited availability of 5 x 11 panels the Main housing had to use 3 x 11 dark blue with a yellow band. Yellow curved and flat panels used for the rear. The grey deck can be lifted off by removing the four “ventilator” domes.

 Two PF receivers are mounted above the large battery box which is hidden inside housing, and acts as a counterweight. Access to battery switch by swinging open one curved yellow corner.

 Slewing gearbox and PF motor had to be raised by 3L so that the 24T gear would not foul one of the 3 x 11 the side panels. Two 16L tie rods installed to keep tower straight as it leaned forward slightly. Mounted on the under carriage and tested for slewing, hoisting & luffing and all OK.
 
 Jib raised 
 Jib lowered 
 Access to battery switch 
 Next step sort out the PF cables in the under carriage which resemble spaghetti at the moment ! Now the hardest part - a video ! PS:- excuse the dull photos and lack of wall paper due its re-decorating time ! PPS:- have ordered four grey rack housings to replace the red ones. Doug

I have used this 12/24 gear ratio many times without any issues with friction. The latest was the Mock Perpetual motion GBC which needed two in series to get a 4:1 ratio. see example

Thanks for the support leg idea, with a slight modification now fitted to outrigger arms.
 With feet on the ground the wheels are just clear of the ground. New tower now buiult in light grey and drive unit for pull back cylinder (luffing) made more secure.
 Hoisting cable added and reeved to so hook remains fairly level as jib luffed in or out using the Toplis system. Now to decide colour scheme for the main machinery housing !
 Have plenty of 3 x 11 dark blue panels and just enough 5 x 11 panels if rob them from my BW Trencher MOC.

Agree but so far have not found away to improve the way the outrigger legs are guided up & down. See separate Outrigger topic where I asked for ideas for a better solution.

I have a grey paint marker pen so could paint the outriggers !!! As its not going on display i won't bother. If I built the under carriage again I would make it stronger by using two layers of frames one above the other with a 1 or 2L space between them to run drive axles , cable etc. out of sight. I think I will call my crane "Jospeh", the TechnicColour crane.

???? The UC is consist of 18 - 5 x 7 frames to form the upper deck upon which all motors, caster units & outriggers have to be attached to, along with routing 4 different drive trains for the various functions 1/ Drive to 4 caster unit wheels 2. Steering to 4 caster units 3/. Extend / retract outriggers legs, 4/. lower / raise support legs All of the above withthout interfering with each other. Plus mount 5 motors , 2 PF Rx and 2 PF switches plus PF cables. Plus turntable slewing gear ring. Give a try and you will find its a very difficult task. The jib is a copy of my Tower crane MOC which I still have assembled and on display. It had to be dark blue as not enough dark gray for the tower panels. Yes - the red outriggers are a bit glaring but when I brought them they were only available in red, I see they come in grey now, so one day I might buy a set of 4. The outrigger feet are in red to indicate a hazard.

As stated in previous post.
Aesthetics:- I don’t have enough panels to achieve a consistent colour scheme so will be mostly “two shades of grey” and yellow !!! I primarily set out out to build this crane as a way of exploring technical problems and solutions which I am satisfied has been achieved. Re messy colours: in lower part, presume you refer to the under carriage (UC).
As stated in previous posts I have a limited quantity of spare parts in the appropriate colours unless I break down past MOC or Lego Sets. Some parts only available in limited range of colours 
i.e frames in light grey, gear rack housings in red, curved gear racks in yellow so had to were used. The UC uses light & dark grey beams with red outriggers housings and the yellow 11L axles were used as they fitted where shown, two 5.5 axles back to back with a 2L axle connector caused the drive to bind as slightly more than 11L in total. If I have enough panels after upper works are finished then intend to deck the UC where possible. The MOC is quite large and taking a lot of space in my study and I have nowhere to display it - so once proved working OK and a video made, it will be dissembled it for future MOCs. ===================================================================
 Future MOC ? 
 Everything is driven by one reversing steam engine with a unique hoisting chain stowage system and clutches with long drive shafts to engage all the functions.
 I have seen a working Meccano model of this but it would be a real challenge to build in Lego:


Tower now built and jib installed. This is constructed on the same pattern as I used for my TC 8 Tower Crane with a slight mod to allow for two pulleys at the head of the jib. Position of jib pivot and pull back cylinder achieved by trial and error and a bit of a compromise to get maximum luffing of the jib as the travel on large linear actuators is not enough. The rotating structure is not yet connected to under carriage just just the Z60 turntable slotted into under carriage 5 x 7 frame and the six wheels on the slewing gear rack. Rotates very smoothly and once battery box installed and locating pins will be able to take a load. Drivers cabin ex BWE. Aesthetics:- I don’t have enough panels to achieve a consistent colour scheme so will be mostly “two shades of grey” and yellow !!! Diamensions Length = 40 cm Width with outriggers stowed = 36 cm. extended = 42 cm Height with jib fully raised 82 cm lowered 64 cm Jib outreach = 50 cm radius - min 32 cm when luffed fully in. Two PF receivers now fitted for caster wheel drive and steering
two. PF switches for outrigger movement.
 PF cable runs still to sort out and hide from view.
 


Thanks, I intend to complete this build as there still problems to over come in the rotating structure. I was just thinking about how some elements & solutions from this build can be used in any possible future MOC.

Under carriage complete - apart from mounting PF recivers. All five motors are now installed on underside, which meant shifting some of them to give space for the battery box with alterations to various dives & gearing.

 Hardest to fit was the drive to the outrigger support legs. I had to devise a way of getting past other drive axles & pass up through the under carriage. 
 I came up with two back to back LEGO Beam 3m Ø4.85 with fork (87408) to squeeze through a 1L gap - see image below. I had hoped to fit two PF receivers onto the top side but the underside of the rotating structure will foul them. I will either have to raise the turntable gear ring or modify the rotating base to get enough clearance. This build has been very useful in developing new ways to overcome the many problems. 
ie. outriggers deployment & caster steering / drive units.
 The under carriage has ended up being far larger than first envisaged and is taking up a lot of space !!!

I I intend to continue with this build as a technical build and have decided the aesthetics will be minimal. 
 Some of the solutions will come in very useful for any future MOCs which will use a simpler form of outriggers that take up less space !! I already have an idea for a future MOC. Top view: 
 Underside view:
 L = drive to all four caster unit wheels via a central differential. 
 M1 = steering to caster units C1 & C2 M2 = steering to caster units C3 & C4
 M3 - drive to outrigger raise & lower support legs.
 M4 = drive to outrigger extend & retract arms.
 C1 to C4 = caster steering & drive units. M3 & M4 manually via two PF switches. L, M1 & M2 remotely.

 The build continue upwards & I may re-use the jib from my TC8 tower crane to finish the build, my spare parts are running low.

On my crane MOCs if a large battery boix is insufficient as a counterweight I use a 8878 battery box with the internals removed and replaced by steel or lead weights with the top of the housing disguised. Your MOC looks excellent but as per another topic aesthetics v technic is at work or Studfull (prone to pulling apart) v Studless which provides a stronger structure. Its a compromise with any technic build. Look forward to seeing a Mk 2 version - had a look at the Sennebogen website and there are a number of cranes that ideal for Technic builds.

Looks good, shame it had problems with slewing etc. Might be more reliable if built with studless technic. The old studded turntable has a lot of friction, the new z60 turntable are much freer.

Thanks - but unclear what you mean can you explain more please. Doug

Does anyone have a better way of guiding a small linear actuator when used for outrigger support legs ?

Now re-built one end of the undercarriage:-
 Two outriggers fitted along with L motor for driving all four caster units, M motor for steering one pair of caster units and M motor for outriggers extend / retract. Despite a lot of room in the undercarriage it has proved very difficult to get all the drives to various functions without conflict, especially the drive for raising & lowering the outriggers legs.
 I hope to use one M motor to operate all four support legs in unison. Slewing gear ring required new mounting locations but is still supported at 8 points OK.
 More stiffening required to prevent undercarriage from sagging in the middle.
 Once satisfied all works OK the other end will be re-built. A rail mounted portal crane would have much easier to build !! General topside view: Close up the sliding RED 8T gear
 which is driven by a 2L worm gear. Drive to extend & retract outriggers - this will operate all four outriggers once other end built.
 Other caster units & outriggers now installed and tested. Drive & steering all OK Opps - tested all four outriggers together but found at one end they extend but the other end they retract !!! A quick re-positioning of a 12T DB gear fixed it so all four now extend & retract in unison. If any outrigger gets out of step it can be fixed by keeping drive motor running to move arms to full out or full in. The linear clutches them slip as each arm reaches its end travel while the out of step arms continous moving until it reaches its end travel.

Take a look at the Train Tech forum,there’s a Lego Train engine powered by a pull back motor.

Thanks - tested and able to just lift wheels off the ground but don't expect they will lift the completed MOC. Need to extend the support feet a bit more to give more lift. I see that rack housing now available in light grey but too pricey at the moment and not readilly available in UK. The size of the MOC is determined by the two outriggers back to back. Goldilocks syndrome at work on undercarriage !! Version 1 - caster unit 17L apart which too small & outriggers overhang far too much Version 2 - caster units 25L apart which too large Version 3 - caster units 21L apart which is just right with outriggers overhang just right. Version 3 now building & making improvements to connections and get a uniform colour scheme. The caster units will be on a 21L x 29L centres. Outriggers - have suggested to Jim that the seperate topic I made should become a thread so others can post their ideas, solutions etc.

They also have some very useful holes that allow an axle to pass through out of sight.

Thanks - was begining to think its getting too wide. That's an end view and the wheels are positioned for sideways movement. The drive to lower / raise the support legs had to go over the frame to avoid the drives for steering & wheels. Have come up with a solution going over the top which also allows for 5 x 11 panels to form the platform on top of the under carriage. Steering motor now centrally placed. Now to dupliacte it for the other end !

Its just got slightly wider by 3L - the overhang of outriggers outside of the under carriage was to much even when retracted. So under carriage widened and have re-built one end unit, with two caster units plus steering motor and two outriggers. The red rack houses helps stiffen the chassis and now more space to put the various drives in for the two outriggers. Its not possible to have a straight drive to the 1L worm gear for the rack as the 12T single bevel gears would foul the red housing, hence the offset with linear clutch.

Thanks for your comments, Re Caster bogie unit: thanks for info about this - I had made a quick test rig but even though each wheel can rotate indepentently they still scuff when turning so will keep with the four caster units. Edit The four caster unit I finally came up with are working well in the various steering modes so will use this. Just have to out the attachments points for outriggers and the drive to the support legs. The actual Kone crane has 3 axles but only one driven and two steered which is odd, presume the whole bogie caster can turn not each axle. Found a video of the larger cranes in this series but they have multilpe caster sets, can,t find one that shows the 3 axle version. Re eureka moments: I often when "semi" watching TV have a tray with lego parts and try out various ideas, thats how the caster units & outriggers evolved. Doug

Thanks for your comments. I have settled on building the Kone Quaymate 50T Mobile harbour Crane, as per previous diagram. Have yet to test if a steered un-power bogie caster unit will work, if not it will be a four caster wheel set up as per original under carriage. Should be able to modify the existing under carriage to mount the linear outriggers at each end. Biggest task is to work out new drive paths for all the functions so they don't block each other. I find the most enjoyable part of using Lego Techic is problem solving and devising new ways to achieve results. The various new connectors make things easier now.

For a long time I wanted to use the new gear racks with housing on a crane build, now achieved. Combine Unit: Caster and Outrigger Unit. This forms one half of a back to back combined unit for one end of the crane undercarriage.

 Have now managed to combine the caster unit with an outrigger. 
 Quite a struggle getting all components into place especially the drive to extend / retract the outrigger gear rack. The linear clutch is fitted to protect drive system & ensure all four outriggers extend / retract fully using one motor. The other end to be designed so each a caster unit has a bogie wheel arrangement which will be steered but not driven and be combined with the outriggers. All inputs will be driven by M motors with remote control for drive & steering function and PF switches for the two outriggers functions. The hardest part of this build was getting the drive to the gear rack without fouling the caster unit wheels. The red gear rack housing has few mounting holes and has a 1/2L problem. See images. Blue input: raise / lower outrigger leg. Yellow: Extend / retract outrigger arm. Note unused UJ for other side unit.

 Red input: drive to caster unit wheels. Yellow axle: 360 deg. caster steering.
 General view:
 Topside view: 
 Underside view: with outrigger arm extended. 
 Side view with outrigger arm retracted: 


All the mechanics in the rotating structure will be hidden by the machinery housing. Aesthetics is not my strong point. I am happy with the turntable arrangement which gives very good support for the heavy top works. The two steering motors will probably be disguised as compressed air tanks. Begining to more resemble the Kone Crane so I may yet change the build to replicate that. The linear outriggers look better and the wheel arrangment is interesting with one pair of caster wheels the other pair with twin axles also on a caster steering unit. Have a solution for outriggers back to back without any offset and would leave more space in middle of under carriage to locate motors etc. with the turntable gear ring mounted in same manner. The box like structure should be easier to replicate and battery box can be hidden in the red housing and act as a counterweight. Wish I had spotted it before.

Now building the upper rotating structure with the lower section of tower. The rotating frame is supported on curved gear racks using double wedge wheels at 4 cardinal points (N,S,E,W) plus two more at SW & SE to take the weight of the jib. Slewing tested and runs very smoothly. Overall view: Machinery space:
 Slewing hoisting & pull back cylinder motors installed plus a large battery box. Pull back cylinder for luffing the jib, hopefully the L motor will be strong enough for this. Final position (height) of this to be determined once build and connect to the jib. 
 Pull back cylinder drive unit built into tower structure & driven by L motor.