9V Motor Problem

[CarrollFilms]

Hello everybody out there on the EB forums. I have a problem with two of my 9V motors, back at BW 2011 (around 2 weeks ago) my motors would pulse and then stop. From that I took it to a 9V expert from NILTC and they told me that it was just overheating from pushing the Emerald night tender and coal car + pulling 2 passenger cars.

After running a few tests in my basement I could smell the burning plastic from the motor. I even tried it without the emerald night, the motors still pulse when alone on the track. The tests were the ones followed

test #1. run each motor individually (pulsing)

test #2. run each motor with a passenger car (overheating after 30 minutes or so)

test #3. have each motor pull or push a small load of freight (same result from test #2)

test #4. have each motor rest for 24 hours before using again (after about 5 minutes, the motors began to smell but not overheat)

Please help me guys, I have 4 trains now and they are soon to all be 9V powered, but if necessary I will be forced to switch them to RC. From what i've heard, RC is more powerful and has more torque/speed. On the other hand ME model 9V tracks are very good, I might have to pick myself some of them up online.

Thanks so much for your Help

-CarrollFilms

[hoeij]

Unnecessary quote of entire post removed by moderator

The Emerald Night is too much of a load for a 9V motor. The coal car and two passenger cars is not much of a load, but pushing the Emerald Night engine takes a lot of force, which means that the 9V motor was pulling a lot of current. Over time that is sure to kill the motor. What was the lowest speed setting at which the train would move?

One more test you can do is: does the motor also stutter if you connect it directly (with a 9V connection cable) to the regulator (without any track). If it does, then that's a sign that the DC motor inside it is done for.

What happens when you use too much current (i.e. when the motor has to deliver a lot of torque) is that the carbon brushes in the DC motor evaporate. Once all the carbon is gone, the motor is finished. It does not matter much if you're using a low or a high speed, either way will kill the motor if load on the motor is too high.

Edited July 5, 2011 by TheBrickster
Unnecessary quote of entire post

[hoeij]

Please help me guys, I have 4 trains now and they are soon to all be 9V powered, but if necessary I will be forced to switch them to RC. From what i've heard, RC is more powerful and has more torque/speed. On the other hand ME model 9V tracks are very good, I might have to pick myself some of them up online.

The PF-train motor produces the same torque and speed as a 9V motor (google: lego 9V motors compared).

The Emerald Night is usually powered by an XL motor. This combination has a ton of pulling power. Some people build engines with one or two M-motors, those can also have lots of pulling power because you can choose the gearing.

I overloaded an old 9V motor and it burned out. I opened it up to see what was going on. I removed the DC motor inside it, and when I apply electricity to that DC motor it produces lights, which is a sign that the brushes are worn and are now producing sparks. That DC motor spins irregularly, it is basically useless.

Getting back to the E.N., this dead 9V motor can still power the E.N. train, as follows: remove the DC motor inside the 9V train motor, then put this dead 9V motor in the tender, attach a cable to the dead 9V motor (lego has cables with a PF connection on one side, and a 9V connection on the other side). Attach the other side of that cable to an XL motor that is placed inside the E.N. engine (as in the instructions). So the dead 9V motor (with DC motor removed) now serves only to pick up electricity from the track, and you feed this electricity straight to the XL motor.

This way your train is controlled by the usual 9V controller, and is XL-powered so it won't have any troubles pulling a whole bunch of coaches. Your motor won't heat up, and that means that it should last a long time.

Edited July 5, 2011 by hoeij

[hoeij]

Hello everybody out there on the EB forums. I have a problem with two of my 9V motors, back at BW 2011 (around 2 weeks ago) my motors would pulse and then stop. From that I took it to a 9V expert from NILTC and they told me that it was just overheating from pushing the Emerald night tender and coal car + pulling 2 passenger cars.

I overlooked that you were using two 9V motors. I think two 9V motors should be strong enough for this load, but you have to be a little careful with them and check up on them every once in a while.

The risk is that if one of the motors is bad, then the other one will end up having to do too much work, so you can lose a bad and a good motor in one day.

I have two long trains that two motors each, and if I run these trains for a long time then I occasionally check up on them (picking up the engine and feeling if the motors are getting warm).

A couple of years ago, when I burned out a 9V motor, I did two things: (1) bought a whole bunch of spares (which at the time were still available at reasonable prices) and (2) for each of my 9V trains, I measured how much current each train was using. This way I know if they're overloaded or not. I have not lost any 9V motors since.

[Veeb0rg]

You might also want to open the motor up and apply some grease to the axles/gears inside.

http://www.trains-n-town.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=1154

You should also modify the Emerald and remove all the internal gearing on the wheels, it will reduce friction.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Veeb0rg

[CarrollFilms]

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to switch my Emerald Night to a PF then. If the motors still work, I'll end up putting them underneath the Maersk train, and have it haul 4 cars.

[hoeij]

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to switch my Emerald Night to a PF then. If the motors still work, I'll end up putting them underneath the Maersk train, and have it haul 4 cars.

That's a much lighter load than pushing an E.N. engine.

By the way, if you need more 9V motors, this is what I would do: Look on eBay for incomplete 9V sets. For example, a complete 4561 already goes for a pretty low price, say $50 plus shipping. If you buy incomplete sets, it'll be lower still. This way you get: a motor, a light, some more track, and especially valuable: train wheels, train plates, magnets, etc. For example, an incomplete 4561 train car is pretty useful because it's easy to make nice cargo cars out of those low-center train base plates.

If you figure the value of the train wheels and other train parts, then, by buying incomplete 9V sets (especially the less popular ones like 4561), you end up with motors that effectively cost less than 20$. You could have bad luck and get a nearly worn motor, but chances are that most of the time the motor is as good as new (most kids don't run the train for a lot of hours, and besides, sitting in a light-weight train the motor would last a long time anyways because when all it has to do is pull a 4561 train, the motor will never get hot). I would think that if a used 9V motor does not come from an AFOL that owns heavy trains, then it's almost sure to be in good condition.