power funktions on 11,1v!

[rgbrown]

Very cool discussion!

To all electrical/electronic engineers out there: what is the normal safety factor of any design? Because in this case from 9V to 11.1V is 25% factor which in civil eng. is really not enough for Ultimate States Design... Anyway, I'm electronically retarded; enlight me!

The component in question here is the LB1836 motor driver IC that is in the IR receiver. The manufacturer states on the data sheet that the allowable operating range is 2.5 to 9V, and the absolute maximum input voltage range is -0.3 to 10.5V. The IC manufacturer may have incorporated a safety factor into their specification of the absolute maximum input voltage (10.5V), but as far as I'm aware, there is no standard industry figure for this. All it is saying is that the manufacture is guaranteeing that if you take a sample of these chips and apply 10.5V to them, they won't break down. Some chips may be able to tolerate much higher, some (even from the same batch) may be able to tolerate barely more than this

In brief: PF is using this component at the upper end of how it is intended to be used, I would personally advise against using higher voltages on the IR receiver, but, as shown by this thread, doing so won't automatically destroy the device. Again, it should be noted that the breakdown may occur over time.

If I felt I had one spare (which I don't), I would destroy one this way just to make the point - any volunteers?

[rien]

If I felt I had one spare (which I don't), I would destroy one this way just to make the point - any volunteers?

yes im youre volunteer and no destroying here so where's youre point???

you keep saying destroy

there is no proof that it wil destroy the onley proof there is is that it works!!!!!!!!!

is it hard to say it can while it,s not in the books

all of my models are running on 11,1voltage now the powersupley is easyer to build in :D

[davidmull]

Whats the best type of li po 11.1v battery to use there is many types out there and does this work well on the new excavator and is it just a matter of wiring it up, no other parts needed?

[Blakbird]

Whats the best type of li po 11.1v battery to use there is many types out there and does this work well on the new excavator and is it just a matter of wiring it up, no other parts needed?

For radio control cars where you want to pull 100 amps the type is really important. For this application is doesn't really matter though. Buy the cheapest 1700-2200mAh 3-cell LiPo you can and it will be fine. Try Cheap Battery Pack.com.

[rien]

i use 2200mAh 3-cell LiPo

but dont forget its on jurgens model based build with a xl

thnx to this forum and bufalo!

Edited December 13, 2010 by rien

[davidmull]

so u need to upgrade to an XL motors for the excavator to use the 11.1v battery is it?has anyone a list of stuff needed to do this ie battery/XL motor/s etc!does it speed up the functions or just give more power?

[Blakbird]

so u need to upgrade to an XL motors for the excavator to use the 11.1v battery is it?has anyone a list of stuff needed to do this ie battery/XL motor/s etc!does it speed up the functions or just give more power?

No, there's no reason you couldn't use the Li-Po with the M-motors. You'll just see a bigger difference with the XL motor. The XL change alone will add a lot more power, and the extra voltage will add a lot more speed. See the thread on Jurgen Krooshoop's modifications to see how to add the motor.

[rgbrown]

If I felt I had one spare (which I don't), I would destroy one this way just to make the point - any volunteers?

yes im youre volunteer and no destroying here so where's youre point???

you keep saying destroy

there is no proof that it wil destroy the onley proof there is is that it works!!!!!!!!!

is it hard to say it can while it,s not in the books

I guess I must sound like a bit of a wet blanket to you. I'm not denying that yours works, nor am I denying that running motors on a higher voltage will give you more speed and torque. And I agree that your excavator runs very nicely (and that you're a very good operator), and I wish they all worked like that.

I just don't want people to get the idea that exceeding maximum voltage ratings on integrated circuits is a good idea, or at least people should be well aware of the risks. I'm trained as an electrical engineer, and doing that in a design is an absolute no-no. Of course these are only toys, and if the product breaks it doesn't matter, so normal engineering rules don't apply - but there is a definite risk of this happening. Chip manufacturers don't just pull those numbers out of the air.

And once again, I'm talking specifically about the receiver, not motors.

Anyway, no more from me on this! I think I've made my point quite often enough now

[Tobbe Arnesson]

Whats the best type of li po 11.1v battery to use there is many types out there and does this work well on the new excavator and is it just a matter of wiring it up, no other parts needed?

This is important: You'll need a charger that's intended for the LiPo battery, preferably one with load balancing that can charge the individual cells in the battery pack separately. Charging LiPo is nothing that should be taken lightly on (now here's a real safety threat):

Understand the risks and minimize the potential for things to go horrible wrong, we don't want reports of LEGO-rooms in flames (or worse).

[rien]

This is important: You'll need a charger that's intended for the LiPo battery, preferably one with load balancing that can charge the individual cells in the battery pack separately. Charging LiPo is nothing that should be taken lightly on (now here's a real safety threat):

Understand the risks and minimize the potential for things to go horrible wrong, we don't want reports of LEGO-rooms in flames (or worse).

yes verry verry important to learn about these lipo's especiali to charge it the right way !!!!!

by normal use no problem but when overcharged or you put a nail in them it wil turn into a little dragon!!!

[rien]

I guess I must sound like a bit of a wet blanket to you. I'm not denying that yours works, nor am I denying that running motors on a higher voltage will give you more speed and torque. And I agree that your excavator runs very nicely (and that you're a very good operator), and I wish they all worked like that.

I just don't want people to get the idea that exceeding maximum voltage ratings on integrated circuits is a good idea, or at least people should be well aware of the risks. I'm trained as an electrical engineer, and doing that in a design is an absolute no-no. Of course these are only toys, and if the product breaks it doesn't matter, so normal engineering rules don't apply - but there is a definite risk of this happening. Chip manufacturers don't just pull those numbers out of the air.

And once again, I'm talking specifically about the receiver, not motors.

Anyway, no more from me on this! I think I've made my point quite often enough now

yeah right but you talk like I never said anything about the danger >i did!

and there is always someone who try stuff and place the results on a forum > me for now!

and about the recivers ok there is mabey inside that is 10,5v but i have 6 recivers working on the li-po in model 8043 3x 8265 2x 8258 1x

there is also no problem

also on fresch charged ones

sorry if i sound angrey but the writing in english is hard for me to express myself

wish i was in the same country as you so i coud invite you to my lab euh attic:P

to show you my stuf and i can watch and hear you we would open things and put power on them to see if they are getting hot ore something

greetz

BRAINIAC rien hahah

[Out of Sight]

@Rien,

That's a brilliant idea running low voltage alarm! Why didn't think of that?

Anyway can I see how you actually plugged in the Lipo to the PF, how did you modify the cable to connect to the IR receivers or did you connect the Lipo to the PF battery box? A picture would be helpful, thanks.

[rien]

@Rien,

That's a brilliant idea running low voltage alarm! Why didn't think of that?

Anyway can I see how you actually plugged in the Lipo to the PF, how did you modify the cable to connect to the IR receivers or did you connect the Lipo to the PF battery box? A picture would be helpful, thanks.

yea youre right here some picts

and i make some wires longer

[Out of Sight]

yea youre right here some picts

and i make some wires longer

Ah I see... Thanks for the clear pics & quick reply,I appreciate it!

[Tobbe Arnesson]

Why did you not buy a few of the short extension cables and slaughter them instead of the attached cables to the IR-receiver and also the XL-motor?

Kinda no way back there...

Edited December 14, 2010 by Tobbe Arnesson

[rien]

Why did you not buy a few of the short extension cables and slaughter them instead of the attached cables to the IR-receiver and also the XL-motor?

Kinda no way back there...

space my friend and better conection than the pf plugs i solder the conections

so the way back is....solder it back togeter!

[Tobbe Arnesson]

To each and his own I suppose.

[rien]

To each and his own I suppose.

? sorry you lost me

[Tobbe Arnesson]

Personally I would not make such modifications to the expensive bricks, especially not when I could have used the extension cords as "adapters" between LEGO and non-LEGO elements. And I don't hesitate to use non-LEGO if it gives me crucial things pure LEGO cannot.

One of the reasons why your modifications raise so much resistance here is because of pure-ism.

Most of the builders who make own creations pride themselves in using only unaltered official LEGO-bricks. It is in fact somewhat of an unwritten rule if you will. No cutting, sanding, painting or otherwise tampering with the bricks. Especially not if it's not reversible. Lubing can also be considering a bad act according to the unwritten builders code, depending on how fanatic you are in the "religion" called pure-ism.

Custom made stickers is probably where most draw their line, they are OK as long as they're only attached to make things look better - not to hold parts together.

I suppose you come from another end of this, more interested in making the LEGO models work like the real world stuff and not limiting yourself to these "rules". Which is totally fine, each person can do as he/she pleases. Or: To each and his own.

[rien]

Personally I would not make such modifications to the expensive bricks, especially not when I could have used the extension cords as "adapters" between LEGO and non-LEGO elements. And I don't hesitate to use non-LEGO if it gives me crucial things pure LEGO cannot.

One of the reasons why your modifications raise so much resistance here is because of pure-ism.

Most of the builders who make own creations pride themselves in using only unaltered official LEGO-bricks. It is in fact somewhat of an unwritten rule if you will. No cutting, sanding, painting or otherwise tampering with the bricks. Especially not if it's not reversible. Lubing can also be considering a bad act according to the unwritten builders code, depending on how fanatic you are in the "religion" called pure-ism.

Custom made stickers is probably where most draw their line, they are OK as long as they're only attached to make things look better - not to hold parts together.

I suppose you come from another end of this, more interested in making the LEGO models work like the real world stuff and not limiting yourself to these "rules". Which is totally fine, each person can do as he/she pleases. Or: To each and his own.

and the alkalines are from lego aswel?

the onley thing what i replaced are the alkalines ho are also NOT from lego for a lipo and i removed the conectors for soldering witch is better conection and SAFER!

I suppose you come from another end of this, more interested in making the LEGO models work like the real world stuff and not limiting yourself to these "rules". Which is totally fine, each person can do as he/she pleases. Or: To each and his own.

youre right about that i dont need a title just want a realistic 8043

i also want a hydraulic model from wedico but it cost around 5000 euro wedico

now i have almost the same idea and working for a 4/500 euro

here the 8043 and 8258 together

look the 8258 the speed :D

[rien]

here the 8265 li-po powered

[Out of Sight]

So that probably makes me a Lego 'desecrator' too I guess ...I lubed my Legos but only to some extent, that it's virtually impossible to notice it, and my set stays clean,even brick purists cannot spot the difference.

I mostly display my Lego, and only playing with the functions few minutes between work to relief stress, so cleanliness and build originality (model must match box photo) are also top priority. I haven't done any modifications to my 8043, or will I ever, I respect the designer's trait.

But to be fair, I think Rien's power mods is a good example of how much further we can extend our Lego's playability, beyond the design and purism boundaries. Rien's mod can be considered a research too..perhaps Lego one day will come up with 11.1 power box and matching PF circuitry to power bigger model like the 8043, or probably design a more powerful and faster M motor.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Out of Sight

[rien]

perhaps Lego one day will come up with 11.1 power box and matching PF circuitry to power bigger model like the 8043, or probably design a more powerful and faster M motor.

i would like that!

[Zerobricks]

Brushless would be awesome, but also very expensive!

[davidmull]

What do people think of the 8265 as iv heard poor reports about it and also is it hard get all the power functions to work on it like above?i think its a nice set and not too expensive ether!