Auroralampinen Posted January 7 Posted January 7 20 hours ago, Auroralampinen said: Well, i have no idea where this topic would be best fit. But let's try it to be here:). All right if you have lived under a rock. Today at CES(Consumer Electronic Show). Lego revealed the most hated thing on the planet;). https://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/news/2026/december/lego-smart-play-announcement While others are complaining about the set looks being terrible and price being terrible(me included). I have a different point of view for this electronic gimmick:). Well, im not a enviromentalist person. But i really worry how are you gonna replace the batteries when they go bad. And batteries do bulge out sometimes. So has lego maked sure that they would not burst in to flames if kid got curious why the smart figure bulged overnight. Im not against for rechargable batteries. But i worry how you are supposite to change the batteries. Or has Lego builded a international service network, to replace smart play batteries or some other electronic compnents. If they haven't made this. The environnemental impact would be huge. And parents would be angry if they would not get their expensive smart play stuff fixed. Plus i think this goes against lego's own environnemental protection claims. Like when they changed to paper bags because plastic is bad for environnement:). But i might be alone with these concerns. But it's always important to bring up your own points of concern:). But anyway if you too have your own concerns leave them in this topic:). To make clear yes, i know there is the Control + All In One hub with rechargable battery. But you don't interact with it the same way as the smart play system. And also when the ipod nano battery bulged you could not change it due to the design. And i wonder has the smart figures the same compact battery placement. Where in case of bulging you cannot remove it. And i think kid would not even notice their smart figure bulging until it's too late. Well, apparently the smart figures dont have batteries which is good. But still im really consered with the smart brick battery replacement. Because batteries do die overtime. And if lego doesn't offer you any guide or services or replacement batteries the smart brick would end up in the land fill. And that goes against lego's own environnemental protection claims:). And it seems the smart brick is really dencely packed so if the battery decided to bulge. Then probably you have to throw away the brick:(. So otherwise the smart brick seems okayish concept. But it is too expensive:(. And if you cannot replace the battery. Then thid will be overtime really useless gimmick because lego won't sell the smart bricks separately. And you end up with non functional crappy looking build:/. And a little side note. In finland we have a pretty good infrastructure to recycle e waste(the kuusakoski group). But this is not the case all around the world. So when the battery dies if you cannot replace the battery. Because lego decided they don't want to follow their own environnemental protection rule. Then the smart brick will end up in poor e waste recycling infrastructure and pollute the land:/. Quote
MAB Posted January 7 Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Auroralampinen said: Well, apparently the smart figures dont have batteries which is good. But still im really consered with the smart brick battery replacement. Because batteries do die overtime. And if lego doesn't offer you any guide or services or replacement batteries the smart brick would end up in the land fill. And that goes against lego's own environnemental protection claims:). And it seems the smart brick is really dencely packed so if the battery decided to bulge. Then probably you have to throw away the brick:(. So otherwise the smart brick seems okayish concept. But it is too expensive:(. And if you cannot replace the battery. Then thid will be overtime really useless gimmick because lego won't sell the smart bricks separately. And you end up with non functional crappy looking build:/. And a little side note. In finland we have a pretty good infrastructure to recycle e waste(the kuusakoski group). But this is not the case all around the world. So when the battery dies if you cannot replace the battery. Because lego decided they don't want to follow their own environnemental protection rule. Then the smart brick will end up in poor e waste recycling infrastructure and pollute the land:/. I imagine the battery will last 12-15 years. I have plenty of rechargeable batteries of that age that have been used relatively frequently but still charge and work. Not as well as when they were new, but they still work. I expect that LEGO see that as lasting long enough even though it is not forever. 2 hours ago, JopieK said: LEGO should have done this more as a case study. Maybe they still intend to use it as such (even though I doubt it as they integrated it mostly with Star Wars already of course). I think we need much more automation in LEGO but I also have big concerns if this is the best execution... Presumably there is only so much internal case studies can tell them, and so at some stage they need to test it on real people that buy products rather than selected testers that get given the products to test and comment on. Quote
Mr Hobbles Posted January 7 Posted January 7 1 hour ago, MAB said: I imagine the battery will last 12-15 years. I have plenty of rechargeable batteries of that age that have been used relatively frequently but still charge and work. Not as well as when they were new, but they still work. I expect that LEGO see that as lasting long enough even though it is not forever. Which is decent, but disappointing. For example I still use 30 year old Dacta Control Lab's on my Lego layout, along with Powered Up, and Power Functions. We probably won't be able to use these in 30 years, and reviving them will be extremely difficult. Don't get me wrong, I understand that they've done it in the pursuit of miniaturisation. But the cost (in terms of a short life) is high. Quote
MAB Posted January 7 Posted January 7 24 minutes ago, Mr Hobbles said: Don't get me wrong, I understand that they've done it in the pursuit of miniaturisation. But the cost (in terms of a short life) is high. Is it though, when you consider the number and size of batteries whether from phones, laptops, and many consumer electronics, etc that are thrown away every year? If a rechargeable battery lasts 10+ years in a toy then I imagine the manufacturer decides it has done its job. That wouldn't need to be removable / replaceable for the vast majority of consumers that buy it for its intended purpose. Chances are the correct batteries are not readily available for consumers and are hard wired too. To make them replaceable, then that would mean the brick needs to be easily openable (exposing the insides to damage unless they are protected) and have a battery cradle so that it can be removed and replaced. And if the majority of consumers will never need to replace the battery during normal use, it makes little sense to do this. If it is anything like other electronics, chances are there will be a way for (experienced) people to open it if they really want to get inside and change the power options, whether that is to put a new battery in it or wire it to a power adapter or similar. Quote
Mylenium Posted January 7 Posted January 7 5 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said: Jang talks about the bricks using audio synthesis rather than recorded sound. This makes sense as to why they don't do the relevant sound affects for Star Wars stuff but it does make me wonder if this was a good option. Like a kid won't care about the slightly different lazer sounds but I wonder why they did the Cantina at all as it seems mainly build around the gimmick of playing the Cantina music but it seemingly can't? Likely more a matter of programming sophistication. I imagine it's a bit like old MOD audio or for that matter how sound was programmed on old gaming consoles by directly translating the registers and commands in Assembler-like code. It will simply take a while for people to understand how to massage this to get the best experience, including LEGO's own teams. Mylenium 5 hours ago, Auroralampinen said: And if you cannot replace the battery. I'm sure iFixit will come up with some tools and ideas for that. At worst it could be as complicated as fixing AirPods, at best it could be a simple drop-in replacement like in some vapes. LEGO could even offer a replacement service, either for just the battery or swapping the entire brick. Mylenium Quote
MAB Posted January 7 Posted January 7 25 minutes ago, Mylenium said: I'm sure iFixit will come up with some tools and ideas for that. At worst it could be as complicated as fixing AirPods, at best it could be a simple drop-in replacement like in some vapes. LEGO could even offer a replacement service, either for just the battery or swapping the entire brick. I doubt LEGO would offer a replacement service and continue to support the hardware for this once they no longer produce it. And I reckon this will be discontinued and replaced by another product in LEGO's lineup long before the rechargeable batteries no longer charge and need replacing. Quote
JopieK Posted January 7 Posted January 7 4 hours ago, MAB said: I imagine the battery will last 12-15 years. I have plenty of rechargeable batteries of that age that have been used relatively frequently but still charge and work. Not as well as when they were new, but they still work. I expect that LEGO see that as lasting long enough even though it is not forever. Presumably there is only so much internal case studies can tell them, and so at some stage they need to test it on real people that buy products rather than selected testers that get given the products to test and comment on. Oh I totally agree. But still I hope it ís a case study (maybe from a research perspective field study would be more appropriate). Quote
Toastie Posted January 7 Posted January 7 4 hours ago, Mylenium said: how sound was programmed on old gaming consoles by directly translating the registers and commands in Assembler-like code Or as on the 99er using the synthesizer module - as Jang said: Sounds like 8-bit sound . Best Thorsten Quote
Mr Hobbles Posted January 7 Posted January 7 (edited) 6 hours ago, MAB said: Is it though, when you consider the number and size of batteries whether from phones, laptops, and many consumer electronics, etc that are thrown away every year? If a rechargeable battery lasts 10+ years in a toy then I imagine the manufacturer decides it has done its job. That wouldn't need to be removable / replaceable for the vast majority of consumers that buy it for its intended purpose. Chances are the correct batteries are not readily available for consumers and are hard wired too. To make them replaceable, then that would mean the brick needs to be easily openable (exposing the insides to damage unless they are protected) and have a battery cradle so that it can be removed and replaced. And if the majority of consumers will never need to replace the battery during normal use, it makes little sense to do this. If it is anything like other electronics, chances are there will be a way for (experienced) people to open it if they really want to get inside and change the power options, whether that is to put a new battery in it or wire it to a power adapter or similar. For me, yes it is. It's not about the battery itself, it's about the device. Phones, laptops, etc, I expect to last ~5 years, as that's the lifetime I expect before I find myself wanting the need to upgrade to something new. Once I upgrade, I have little to no desire to go back to the old one - it serves no purpose that the new one doesn't. With Lego on the other hand, as I mentioned, I'm still using 30+ year old Lego electronics alongside new Lego electronics. Control Lab drives my 9v trains. Powered Up controls my Bluetooth trains. And WeDo/Power Functions controls my sensors, point motors, lights, etc. All controlled and orchestrated from a Raspberry Pi. If I want to use my Smart Brick 30 years from now and the battery is gone, then what? I've written modern programming libraries that enables control of Lego electronics, ancient and new, and I'd love for Smart Play to be a part of the portfolio of devices we can use 30 years from now. https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-controllab/ https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-wedo https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-coral https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-toypad etc Edited January 7 by Mr Hobbles Quote
MAB Posted January 7 Posted January 7 54 minutes ago, Mr Hobbles said: Phones, laptops, etc, I expect to last ~5 years, as that's the lifetime I expect before I find myself wanting the need to upgrade to something new. Once I upgrade, I have little to no desire to go back to the old one - it serves no purpose that the new one doesn't. With Lego on the other hand, as I mentioned, I'm still using 30+ year old Lego electronics alongside new Lego electronics. Control Lab drives my 9v trains. Powered Up controls my Bluetooth trains. And WeDo/Power Functions controls my sensors, point motors, lights, etc. All controlled and orchestrated from a Raspberry Pi. If I want to use my Smart Brick 30 years from now and the battery is gone, then what? The company thinks different to a user though, whether LEGO or another company. They will support a product as long as they sell it. When they bring out a new and improved product, they'll eventually drop support for the previous one. Everything has a lifetime, and I doubt they plan to keep this going for 10 years. So if a battery (or other components) lasts that long, they will see that as long enough. If someone is expecting to repair and replace components after the expected lifetime, they are probably a hobbyist that will have the skills to do so by opening up the bricks in this case. LEGO didn’t or doesn't sell replacement DC motors for the 1960s trains, either at the time or now. Presumably they knew the motors would last long enough when used under normal conditions for enough years but not indefinitely. But with care they are replaceable. I know as I have done it with a modern motor. I think most consumers would understand that tech based products will age quite quickly before being replaced with more modern tech in future. Quote
Mr Hobbles Posted January 7 Posted January 7 18 minutes ago, MAB said: The company thinks different to a user though, whether LEGO or another company. They will support a product as long as they sell it. When they bring out a new and improved product, they'll eventually drop support for the previous one. Everything has a lifetime, and I doubt they plan to keep this going for 10 years. So if a battery (or other components) lasts that long, they will see that as long enough. If someone is expecting to repair and replace components after the expected lifetime, they are probably a hobbyist that will have the skills to do so by opening up the bricks in this case. LEGO didn’t or doesn't sell replacement DC motors for the 1960s trains, either at the time or now. Presumably they knew the motors would last long enough when used under normal conditions for enough years but not indefinitely. But with care they are replaceable. I know as I have done it with a modern motor. I think most consumers would understand that tech based products will age quite quickly before being replaced with more modern tech in future. Yes, I don’t disagree that that is what Lego is thinking. But, it’s at odds with my thinking. That’s why I said “for me”. :) Like I said, I understand why they’ve done it, but it’s still disappointing. Don’t get me wrong, I actually like the product, and I think given long enough it could evolve into something really cool (ie. Better sounds). Even now I cant wait to start playing with it. Quote
Toastie Posted January 7 Posted January 7 45 minutes ago, Mr Hobbles said: I've written modern programming libraries that enables control of Lego electronics, ancient and new, and I'd love for Smart Play to be a part of the portfolio of devices we can use 30 years from now. https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-controllab/ https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-wedo https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-coral https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-toypad I finally(!) believe in having “got it” - after almost the year, LWP3.0 was introduced, and you were posting about your node.js approach. I tried to follow through - but simply never ever got it. OK, I'm a PChemist, with a hack for machines of all kinds, grew up in 8-bit world, made it into DOS/Windows, BASIC is my favorite, learned a bit Pascal, a bit C, got into Arduinos, ESPs, then VS code (just to get the Circuit Cubes integrated into my LEGO world ...). But always >just trying< things out. When I was lucky, it worked. What I missed all these years was that Node.js is some sort of programming environment. Right? The moment I saw "node-toypad" in your last post, I was literally "rocked". I have one of these, there is also some ancient code I found years ago in the webs to light it up, but I never managed to observe any "interactions"; I also have a number of these RFID tagged LEGO Dimension figures (got them when they sold for next to nothing). But for now, all this is just sitting on a shelf, desperately waiting to be somehow activated >appropriately<. Even the USB cable of the pad is permanently connected to a USB hub I plug into my Dell laptop every time I'm in my home office, hoping that some day, it will come to action. Are you saying, that when I install Node.js, install your software and use your examples, I may activate this beautiful "toypad"??? To me, it is much more than a toypad, it is a piece of LEGO art. Yes, Stargate, that was the magic ... Another wild idea (call it a dream): Would it be possible to connect/interact from one of these portals/pads to/with another? Maybe even over the internet? Let's say one individual has one portal, and puts one of the RFID tagged figures (or whatever is attached to it, could be a meaningful LEGO symbol) on the pad, and a light begins to glow on a pad located anywhere else on this planet? That would be another way of very personal human communication ... Well, that may sound all stupid. All the best Thorsten Quote
JesseNight Posted January 7 Posted January 7 The time a rechargeable battery lasts depends a lot of how it is treated during its lifetime. Rechargeable batteries allow a limited number of recharging cycles, each time you plug in the charger counts as one. Therefore recharging too often when not needed, is not a good thing. Letting them run completely empty is also a bad thing. Long term storage is possible with half a charge (both empty and full state are stressful on a battery). Of course the state of that charge would have to be checked once in a while if it's very long term. Exposure to extreme temperatures is also pretty bad for batteries. I do hope too that these bricks allow battery replacement, I just wouldn't be surprised if they don't. I think it was possible with those light bricks with built-in batteries, just had to be very careful. Personally I hate batteries, first thing I always try is find a way to connect it to a power chord. As for custom or irreplaceable battery units in general, that's just how things are manufactured for profit, to make people buy new stuff instead of sticking to old stuff because they can. And yes that's sadly at the cost of the environment, because waste is good for business. We all know we have to reduce waste, yet we do the exact opposite because once we're at work, profit comes before all else. That might in the end not be different for TLG. Quote
Mylenium Posted January 8 Posted January 8 11 hours ago, MAB said: The company thinks different to a user though, whether LEGO or another company. They will support a product as long as they sell it. When they bring out a new and improved product, they'll eventually drop support for the previous one. Strictly speaking for end customer products that may be true, but servicing machines is a big business in industrial circles. And even for those consumer products it is not necessarily the way things would have to be. We have just been pushed into these shorter lifecycles and been conditioned to accept them as given. It's that old discussion about sustainability, designed obsolescence, repairability. I'm not going to argue that the electronics of the Smart Brick generally will look dated in a few years, but replacing the battery should have been part of the design. I guess we'll find out... Mylenium Quote
MAB Posted January 8 Posted January 8 10 minutes ago, Mylenium said: I'm not going to argue that the electronics of the Smart Brick generally will look dated in a few years, but replacing the battery should have been part of the design. Only if the battery is expected to fail before the product is obsolete. Everything could be repairable but that usually needs to be at the expense of cost and size. For a rechargeable battery to be replaceable then the brick needs to be designed to be openable, and have the battery accessible without exposing the other electronics, and be replaceable with a rechargeable battery that is readily available to consumers. That increases the cost and most definitely the size, making the product as it is impossible. I know there are small specialist rechargeable batteries and some coin cell type available but for normal consumers I think the smallest ones on store shelves are AAA. Then there is also the issue of should the speaker be accessible to replace when it fails, so it needs to be desolderable and away from other components (and available to purchase), then the same with LEDs and so on. Miniaturisation is soon lost. Quote
Mylenium Posted January 8 Posted January 8 25 minutes ago, MAB said: Only if the battery is expected to fail before the product is obsolete. Everything could be repairable but that usually needs to be at the expense of cost and size. Again taking a clue from "how the big boys" do it in industrial circles: It's about "component failure", not the product as a whole. Your points about miniaturization certainly are valid, but I don't think it would be impossible to accommodate a swap-able battery. Anyway, if you think too hard about it, we'll be running in circles. This could be argued either way. We'll probably find out when the EU rules on repairing such stuff have caught up in a few years and force out the truth... Mylenium Quote
MAB Posted January 8 Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Mylenium said: Again taking a clue from "how the big boys" do it in industrial circles: It's about "component failure", not the product as a whole. Your points about miniaturization certainly are valid, but I don't think it would be impossible to accommodate a swap-able battery. Anyway, if you think too hard about it, we'll be running in circles. This could be argued either way. We'll probably find out when the EU rules on repairing such stuff have caught up in a few years and force out the truth... I had a look at specialist battery suppliers earlier. I couldn't see a single rechargeable battery for consumers small enough to fit. There are plenty of ones that are made for permanent use, but not replaceable. The smallest I can see are AAA. I don't know what voltage they will require for the smart brick, but I'm guessing 3.3V is likely to be the minimum so that would probably need 3x 1.2V rechargeable AAA or a single AAA with a boost/step-up converter which makes it large volume. The only option I can see for LEGO right now is to either run on (non-rechargeable) coin cells and require the user to keep purchasing, swapping and throwing away dead cells or use a small integrated rechargeable battery as they have done here. If this needs a battery box even half the size required for trains, it would destroy the fits in a brick idea. The smart brick is already taller than a 2x4. If it needed to be 4x8x3 then it suddenly looks a lot less smart. And given the integrated battery will almost certainly outlive a child's interest in these toys in the majority of cases, I think they have made the right decision going for the non-removable rechargeable solution as that produces less electronic waste than replaceable non-rechargeable batteries. Quote
BrickTronic Posted January 8 Posted January 8 16 hours ago, Toastie said: ... But always >just trying< things out. When I was lucky, it worked. ... ... Even the USB cable of the pad is permanently connected to a USB hub I plug into my Dell laptop every time I'm in my home office, hoping that some day, it will come to action. Are you saying, that when I install Node.js, install your software and use your examples, I may activate this beautiful "toypad"??? ... Hello, Maybe this https://www.dajlab.org/jtoypad.html might work ... Also have a look especially here https://www.dajlab.org/jcontrollab.html Unfortunately the WEDO 1 Hub is not supported on this page https://www.dajlab.org/index.html Jo Quote
Toastie Posted January 8 Posted January 8 2 hours ago, BrickTronic said: Hello, Hello Jo, again: Thanks a million!!! I am working my way through all this - which is totally new for me. As of now, I am struggling with numerous pieces of text such as "Download the above archive and add jars to your class path, or use the following Maven artifact". Yeah - why not. Now adding jars to my class is easy, I just bring a jar of good Danish beer to my Chemical Reaction Dynamics class, which is usually held Fridays at 12 am. I am also good with artifacts - but who is this Maven guy ... I shall find out! Have a nice day and all the best, Thorsten Quote
danth Posted January 9 Posted January 9 (edited) My thoughts. Most of the sets look worse for having the smart brick. The X-Wing looks bad. They had to invent a weirdly deformed canopy for it, and there's basically a truck bed behind it to fit the smart brick. The brick in the TIE Advanced is an uncovered compartment as well. The brick wiggler mechanism in the Cantina is exposed and ugly. These are huge aesthetic compromises. The smart brick sounds are bad. They don't sound like Star Wars sounds. The X-Wing doesn't sound like an X-Wing. There's no Cantina song. Having the light on the brick itself is...primitive. Do the X-Wing guns light up? Do the engines light up? If not, that's lame. The things that might actually be cool, like the spinning R2 head, are executed poorly, with R2 requiring an ugly flat red tile on its back. The sets all are more expensive for having the brick. Basically, unless the "laser tag" aspect of this ends up being really cool and well executed, which I highly doubt, I don't see this as anything but a lose-lose. Poorer designs and higher prices, all for a lame gimmick. Edited January 11 by danth Quote
jodawill Posted January 9 Posted January 9 I agree with everything danth said, but I'd also add that this is just a gimmick that kids will get bored of after a couple days, especially with the friction of needing to constantly recharge the battery. It looks like the sets are priced about $40 per smart brick above what they would normally sell for. I can't imagine many parents are willing to pay that much for it. Comparing this to the introduction of the minifigure is just laughable. I think a large part of why people are so vocal about this. If they just silently dropped it, no one would really care. As a parent, I find it concerning that Lego has been actively discouraging kids from using their own imaginations for years. You can't even buy a box of basic bricks anymore. My son was really excited about the Mario sets for a while, but once he started taking them apart, he found there wasn't much he could do with the pieces that came with them. He told us to stop buying them for him and he went back to Duplos because he has a better part selection in his collection (he's 9 years old). When I was a kid, sets always had pictures of other creations on the back - not alternate builds, but just ideas to spark your imagination and get you thinking about the other possibilities. Today, sets have so many small special parts and such a large variety of colors that it's hard for kids to build up a small collection of useful pieces for building basic stuff. AFOLs hate things like BURPs and POOPs because they're too specialized, but in reality, they served as a great starting point for kids who build their basic bricks around them. Now everything is made from such small parts, and from such a vast variety of molds, kids don't feel the same inspiration when they look at their tubs. The smart brick is just the next step away from encouraging kids to use their own imaginations. Last night, I set my phone down in front of my kids at dinner and played the Beyond the Brick videos for them. I didn't say anything. I wanted to hear their genuine reactions. They did think it looked really cool. But as a parent, it's not really something I'm interested in buying for my kids. Quote
Toastie Posted January 9 Posted January 9 10 hours ago, Dolor said: 4 hours and you can pre-order "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by." Yeah, Douglas Adams. OK, I will now go to my wife and tell her, I just saved about $100, and I want a refund in cash I'll report back how that went. Well, never give up! I am trying this route for more than 38 years. Maybe it sticks this time. Best, and have with the Smart Bricks! Thorsten Quote
MAB Posted January 9 Posted January 9 1 hour ago, jodawill said: You can't even buy a box of basic bricks anymore. And quite a few smaller sets with basic bricks for themed ideas. Quote
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