Is It Possible To Reintroduce Old Sets?

[SpacePolice89]

6 hours ago, JesseNight said:

Isn't this what most people would refer to as "growing out of it"? We all reach an age at some point where certain toys are no longer interesting and feel like either we're too old for it, or the toys are aimed at a much younger audience. As for dumbing down sets... I can only say things change and while we may not agree, we have little choice but to accept it.

Yes that happens but in my case it didn't. The design change caused me to lose interested only in the sets that were juniori zed. I still bought Town subthemes like Arctic and ResQ that weren't juniori zed. I also bought my friends old Lego collections for cheap. I also believe that Lego realized that junior ization was a bad move because World City was a step in the right direction and then the first City sets were very close to pre juni orized town. Only later I had a long collect only phase (about ten years) when almost all my time and energy went towards playing hockey. 

[JesseNight]

Well for a part I do understand the matter, I lost interest at some point too. I gotta say that to me the fun was in the building challenge, and I didn't like to be spoonfed. So I was never too happy with the numbered bags or too detailed instructions even if it's just intended to be comfort features (not to mention I rather see anything transparent separately packaged to prevent scratches... which some sets do, but sadly not all).

But to stay ontopic... I think reintroducing old sets is only possible in very limited quantities, like the occasional set with a wink to the past. Times change. Everything changes. We can only sit back and try to at least enjoy the ride. I just wish I could still get more actual old sets from the late 80s without them costing a small fortune.

[Lego Tom]

I never lost interest because I didn't have it to begin with. I didn't get interested until achieving "older than dirt" status and saw the LEGO D-11 while killing time in a mall waiting for a Air BNB to become available. I was hooked and have since purchased several discontinued sets to make up for lost time. Nevertheless, it is understandable for people to seek items they had or wanted to have at an earlier stage of life. It's called nostalgia and many companies as well as ebay sellers make a fortune off it and the people who 'suffer' from the feeling.

[Peppermint_M]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:59 PM, SpacePolice89 said:

Imagine if the words "nostalgia" or "SNOT" would also be banned and everybody would have to describe them every time they would want to use it. Censorship is not good and it's pretty obvious that junioriz ation is the term for the dumbed down style that existed in the late 90s and early 00s. If many people dislike juniori zied sets it must be a reason behind it and it's much easier and more practical to use that word than to describe it every time. 

Both those are not tiresome arguments. As said:

On 4/1/2024 at 8:47 PM, Black Falcon said:

it actually should be helpfull to make people describe what they don´t like, instead of just using that word and beeing done with it.

That was what the forum faced, not when talking about the 90s and early 00s, but in the 2010s. Used to describe anything anyone didn't like without any true reasoning or discussion. Just the parroted screeching of the word by a huge number of members. Thus making any new set discussion a repeat post of the same word over and over.

Simplified is not censored and actually shares and describes the issue. Sure, maybe people have moved past the problem we added it to the censor list for, but why throw out a buzzword when a measured response with an explanation is better use of the forum.

I know I am disagreed with, but it is one word and it doesn't hurt not to have it....

[Lyichir]

14 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Both those are not tiresome arguments. As said:

That was what the forum faced, not when talking about the 90s and early 00s, but in the 2010s. Used to describe anything anyone didn't like without any true reasoning or discussion. Just the parroted screeching of the word by a huge number of members. Thus making any new set discussion a repeat post of the same word over and over.

Simplified is not censored and actually shares and describes the issue. Sure, maybe people have moved past the problem we added it to the censor list for, but why throw out a buzzword when a measured response with an explanation is better use of the forum.

I know I am disagreed with, but it is one word and it doesn't hurt not to have it....

I agree with this. I've seen "that tiresome argument" used to describe anything from ACTUAL simplification of builds for younger builders to "this expert-level build has bright colors". Having people be more specific forces them to consider what exactly they're describing, turning what would otherwise be used largely as a one-word conversation ender into something that can actually kickstart a more reasoned discussion.

[danth]

3 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Both those are not tiresome arguments. As said:

That was what the forum faced, not when talking about the 90s and early 00s, but in the 2010s. Used to describe anything anyone didn't like without any true reasoning or discussion. Just the parroted screeching of the word by a huge number of members. Thus making any new set discussion a repeat post of the same word over and over.

Simplified is not censored and actually shares and describes the issue. Sure, maybe people have moved past the problem we added it to the censor list for, but why throw out a buzzword when a measured response with an explanation is better use of the forum.

I know I am disagreed with, but it is one word and it doesn't hurt not to have it....

I think the word is "junior-ized" or "juniori-zation" right? Either way...also not a tiresome argument, but simply a single word. I wasn't around for whatever lead to the word filter though. I assume it got heated, and the people who can't take any sort of criticism of Lego whined and got their way, as usual, and the word was banned.

I think the real problem is that some people desperately want to police critical opinions, instead of just accepting that some people have them.

Anyway, as for the meaning, I always thought that terminology meant larger pieces that replace what would otherwise be a build using multiple pieces. Which is what 4+ (née Juniors) sets usually feature. Is that not the widely accepted meaning?

Edited April 2, 2024 by danth

[Artanis I]

4 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

...

I think that it can be removed from the filter list now.

It served its purpose - @10-15 years ago. It's not really tiresome anymore. (Hasn't been for years.) If it ever becomes a problem again, you can always bring it back.

Keeping it in now just confuses new members that don't know the old story.

 

The best use of the filter was when "April Fools" was replaced by "Disney Party"

[JesseNight]

6 hours ago, danth said:

Anyway, as for the meaning, I always thought that terminology meant larger pieces that replace what would otherwise be a build using multiple pieces. Which is what 4+ (née Juniors) sets usually feature. Is that not the widely accepted meaning?

I think there's 2 sides to that one too.
Admitted, I wasn't a fan of seeing this trend at first. But there are builds where it was done with good reason, to strengthen the build. Was it necessary? Maybe, maybe not. In the end, change is just part of life.

[SpacePolice89]

10 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Both those are not tiresome arguments. As said:

That was what the forum faced, not when talking about the 90s and early 00s, but in the 2010s. Used to describe anything anyone didn't like without any true reasoning or discussion. Just the parroted screeching of the word by a huge number of members. Thus making any new set discussion a repeat post of the same word over and over.

Simplified is not censored and actually shares and describes the issue. Sure, maybe people have moved past the problem we added it to the censor list for, but why throw out a buzzword when a measured response with an explanation is better use of the forum.

I know I am disagreed with, but it is one word and it doesn't hurt not to have it....

What constitutes a tiresome argument is very subjective. The word nostalgia is easily used to label anyone who likes older themes and styles even when it is not appropriate. I like the original Classic Space sets very much but I wasn't even born when they were released so it can't be nostalgia. The first subthemes I got were Futuron and Blacktron. But do I want to ban the word nostalgia, the answer is no. Censorship is never a good thing. 

7 hours ago, danth said:

Anyway, as for the meaning, I always thought that terminology meant larger pieces that replace what would otherwise be a build using multiple pieces. Which is what 4+ (née Juniors) sets usually feature. Is that not the widely accepted meaning?

That is also my understanding of the term. 6486 is a typical example

Edited April 3, 2024 by SpacePolice89

[danth]

9 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

The word nostalgia is easily used to label anyone who likes older themes and styles even when it is not appropriate.

YES. That and "Rose Colored Glasses." Hear those all the time. The go-to dismissal aimed at anyone who likes classic themes. Yet somehow never aimed at people who buy sets from 47 year old movies.

9 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

But do I want to ban the word nostalgia, the answer is no.

But it would be hilarious to have a script that changes it to say "I uncritically accept the status quo".

[SpacePolice89]

2 hours ago, danth said:

But it would be hilarious to have a script that changes it to say "I uncritically accept the status quo".

Yes 

[Aanchir]

Hang on, since when is "nostalgia" a pejorative? All of us experience nostalgia (and biases related to it). And there are loads of sets — from the modular buildings, to the Winter Village collection, to Star Wars dioramas, to the recent classic theme throwbacks — that draw a lot of their appeal from their nostalgic vibes. That's not somehow a bad thing!

Moreover, being able to acknowledge our own nostalgia is hardly the same thing as uncritically accepting the status quo. I recognize that in a lot of ways, many sets from my childhood were lackluster by modern standards — but I also realize that they still have plenty of strengths that would be genuinely just as appealing in a modern set or MOC as they would have been back then!
 

I agree that the "insert that tiresome argument" filter feels rather outdated at this point and may no longer be necessary. After all, it can often be easier at this point to push back against overuse/misuse of the term than to have to explain to newer users why that term is filtered in the first place! But I also agree with my brother that the word that it filters is often really irritating, especially when used willy-nilly to describe any and every characteristic a person happens to perceive as "childish". Which I've definitely seen, to the point of people even describing aspects of certain modular buildings, the Medieval Blacksmith, or Pirates of Barracuda Bay that way!

And it's not as though that frustration of mine is solely due to recency bias (which is just as real a phenomenon as nostalgic bias, and just as important to be conscious of. After all, a good portion of the themes that I'm used to seeing characterized that way are 90s themes that I greatly enjoyed in my elementary school years like Aquazone, Time Cruisers, Exploriens, and Fright Knights!

Edited April 3, 2024 by Aanchir

[danth]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Hang on, since when is "nostalgia" a pejorative?

A few days ago?

 

On 3/29/2024 at 10:49 AM, Aanchir said:

I get that you're especially nostalgic for these particular factions, which is totally legitimate! But in general, the reasons you think they're better than subsequent Space themes seem far more subjective than you realize.

The OP didn't mention nostalgia, or even being alive when old Space themes existed. But it was all attributed to nostalgia, and immediately followed up with a literal dismissal of their opinion.

[JesseNight]

11 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Moreover, being able to acknowledge our own nostalgia is hardly the same thing as uncritically accepting the status quo. I recognize that in a lot of ways, many sets from my childhood were lackluster by modern standards — but I also realize that they still have plenty of strengths that would be genuinely just as appealing in a modern set or MOC as they would have been back then!

Let's also not forget that our own standards change over time.
What seemed big and amazing when we were a child might not seem so special anymore now, when looking objectively aside from nostalgic feelings.

[Peppermint_M]

1 hour ago, JesseNight said:

What seemed big and amazing when we were a child might not seem so special anymore now, when looking objectively aside from nostalgic feelings.

Oh this exactly. Sphinx Secret Surprise is my absolute cherished childhood set. I had hours of play and still love it today. It must have been a popular one for others, it appeared as one of the minibuilds in the 90 Years of Play creator set.

Looking at it objectively: It is small, made out of some very large parts and is thus lacking in some detail. A reissue would need solutions for at least five parts no longer in production, which also includes the baseplate the whole thing is built on! 

I made a MOC that recreated what my childhood mind's eye saw, again, not something everyone can do I know. I would love a return of a Johnny Thunder/Adventurers set, but it looks like I can settle for City having more Jungle Exploration. 

Also, I think the reasons people would like Re-issues of sets must be over my head or past my own desires.

Is it that people want a sealed box printed to look like a replica with the contents exactly as in the past, to sit on display? 

Do people want something that looks like the old designs and figures from a set, again for display?

Is it a desire to have the parts and figures available to build a MOC within the theme?

Honestly, I truly prefer to create with LEGO first, collecting is what I do with Books, Diecast cars and fun random figures. My real true desire is for TLG to make every production element in every production colour and make them available at a reasonable cost, or at least a bearable cost. With CMF series continuing in their random way, so I can populate builds 

[SpacePolice89]

36 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Do people want something that looks like the old designs and figures from a set, again for display?

Is it a desire to have the parts and figures available to build a MOC within the theme?

Yes and yes

[MAB]

12 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Also, I think the reasons people would like Re-issues of sets must be over my head or past my own desires.

Is it that people want a sealed box printed to look like a replica with the contents exactly as in the past, to sit on display? 

Do people want something that looks like the old designs and figures from a set, again for display?

Is it a desire to have the parts and figures available to build a MOC within the theme?

 

No doubt there are many reasons people want re-issues. Another reason is that old sets are sometimes worth serious money hence people appear to want the old set. Of course, a re-issue is not the same as the old set though, and re-issuing the set doesn't always mean it will sell well. We saw this happen with two sets reasonably recently - the Taj Mahal and Saturn V. In both cases, the secondary market price of the original was hit. Demand seemed quite high for Saturn V as it seemed to sell well and (at least in the UK) has risen again since retirement, whereas the Taj Mahal appeared to sell slowly and (again in the UK) is barely worth much more than the RRP a few years after retirement. One interpretation is that there were a quite small minority of people both wanting the Taj Mahal and willing to pay a high price for it, but probably not a large number of people willing to pay even 20% of what the original had been selling for for the reissued set. Some were willing to pay £300 but the long term demand doesn't seem to be there.

Personally, I don't see the point of a replica set with a box that looks like the original with the same parts in it, if it is just going to be displayed as a sealed set. It is just a modern set and not the original and not really anything special. Whereas the original set is special, partly as it has survived so long. I'd prefer to see a used, open, original box displayed than a modern unused, sealed remake.

Whereas I can understand if someone wants the experience of building the original set, although often that is not that hard to do with existing parts or very similar replacements and often doesn't really provide that much of a great building experience compared to today's sets. In that sense, they are an important part of history but probably better off remaining as history. I have probably 20 or so complete vintage sets from late 60s to early 80s. They look dated but are kind of cool as they are nice examples of what old sets used to look like and are complete with period parts that have survived for about 50 years. Building one of these out of modern parts using substitutions where necessary doesn't really have the same impact. It looks much more impressive to use modern style building techniques with modern parts, but it creates something totally different. 

 

 

[danth]

7 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Oh this exactly. Sphinx Secret Surprise is my absolute cherished childhood set. I had hours of play and still love it today. It must have been a popular one for others, it appeared as one of the minibuilds in the 90 Years of Play creator set.

Looking at it objectively: It is small, made out of some very large parts and is thus lacking in some detail.

Also looking at it objectively: It had a high number of minifigs for a set with only +300 parts, it had no stickers, many large elaborate prints, had chromed parts, hard a large and elaborate printed base plate, and a non-licensed adventures theme existed.

I don't think any of those things are likely or even possible today.

You can argue about the value of things like raised base plates but I think the value is immeasurable to kids.

My only point here is that you can't attribute everything to nostalgia.

Edited April 4, 2024 by danth

[Lion King]

To be honest, I don’t want nostalgic stuff but I’m okay with old sets being competely rebooted/remade. 

[danth]

31 minutes ago, Lion King said:

To be honest, I don’t want nostalgic stuff but I’m okay with old sets being competely rebooted/remade. 

Same. Provided there are no stickers.

[JesseNight]

11 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Do people want something that looks like the old designs and figures from a set, again for display?

Is it a desire to have the parts and figures available to build a MOC within the theme?

Honestly, I truly prefer to create with LEGO first, collecting is what I do with Books, Diecast cars and fun random figures. My real true desire is for TLG to make every production element in every production colour and make them available at a reasonable cost, or at least a bearable cost. With CMF series continuing in their random way, so I can populate builds 

I'd love to be able to make more MOCs towards themes from my childhood, but sadly the main issue there is simply lack of time. And maybe space too, can't keep everything lying around until the next time I can work on it. But for that reason, I do love to mess around in Stud.io!
For me, the Galaxy Explorer did everything right with its modern remake that kept its recognizable feats, while still being a serious upgrade over the old. That's what I'd love to see more of. I still regret being unable to get more than one when it was still priced more decently, I've seen some awesome larger MOCs!

I guess I'm in the middle somewhat. I'd love to build more than to display, but I do like to display what I've built and my building time is just limited.

[Aanchir]

On 4/3/2024 at 6:26 PM, danth said:

A few days ago?

The OP didn't mention nostalgia, or even being alive when old Space themes existed. But it was all attributed to nostalgia, and immediately followed up with a literal dismissal of their opinion.

I apologize if that comment was in poor taste, but I thought in the very least it made it clear that I wasn't at all criticizing them FOR being nostalgic. If I made an error in thinking they were nostalgic for some of those themes, it's because I am nostalgic for themes like Ice Planet myself and wrongly assumed they were looking back on and admiring those themes due to similar childhood experiences. I'll try to avoid making that mistake in the future.

[Henkeso]

On 4/3/2024 at 9:12 AM, SpacePolice89 said:

I like the original Classic Space sets very much but I wasn't even born when they were released so it can't be nostalgia.

On 4/4/2024 at 12:26 AM, danth said:

The OP didn't mention nostalgia, or even being alive when old Space themes existed. But it was all attributed to nostalgia, and immediately followed up with a literal dismissal of their opinion.

 

I'd like to point out that the dictionary definition of nostalgia is just "a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition". The person being nostalgic doesn't have to have personally experienced that past period or condition. In some cases, I'd argue actual experience makes nostalgia more difficult to feel, because it makes it difficult to idolize the past. And I don't think it's possible to understand why people would want a reissue of old sets, or why the secondary market prices for some old sets are so high, if you can't bring up the role that nostalgia plays. I think it's very relevant to the topic of the thread and that the people that have brought it up are attempting to answer the topic, not dismissing it - for instance, nostalgia is a part of why there is no way to recapture the feelings that building the sets originally evoked with a reissue, or that old sets released as-is, without updating would be a disappointment to an audience that expects the more complex building techniques and elaborate parts library that Lego offers today, etc.

Also, to @danth , I don't see any dismissal of opinion in the passage you quoted. Pointing out that someone's opinion is just that - an opinion, not a fact - that other people may reasonably disagree with isn't dismissal of that opinion. Sometimes it's necessary to point out when a person is trying to rally support for their argument by presenting it as an objective fact that everyone should agree with.

[SpacePolice89]

3 hours ago, Henkeso said:

 

I'd like to point out that the dictionary definition of nostalgia is just "a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition". The person being nostalgic doesn't have to have personally experienced that past period or condition. In some cases, I'd argue actual experience makes nostalgia more difficult to feel, because it makes it difficult to idolize the past. And I don't think it's possible to understand why people would want a reissue of old sets, or why the secondary market prices for some old sets are so high, if you can't bring up the role that nostalgia plays. I think it's very relevant to the topic of the thread and that the people that have brought it up are attempting to answer the topic, not dismissing it - for instance, nostalgia is a part of why there is no way to recapture the feelings that building the sets originally evoked with a reissue, or that old sets released as-is, without updating would be a disappointment to an audience that expects the more complex building techniques and elaborate parts library that Lego offers today, etc.

Also, to @danth , I don't see any dismissal of opinion in the passage you quoted. Pointing out that someone's opinion is just that - an opinion, not a fact - that other people may reasonably disagree with isn't dismissal of that opinion. Sometimes it's necessary to point out when a person is trying to rally support for their argument by presenting it as an objective fact that everyone should agree with.

Sometimes it is just as simple as liking the old style more for aesthetic reasons and I prefer Lego's own factions instead of sets based on movies sometimes older than Classic Space. 

[Peppermint_M]

13 hours ago, JesseNight said:

I guess I'm in the middle somewhat. I'd love to build more than to display, but I do like to display what I've built and my building time is just limited.

Ain't that the truth! I finally got back to creative building after a year of just figure swapping, joining a collaborative project gave me the kick to start again. Plus space in a place is never quite big enough.