LEGO Sci-Fi Ongoing - Rumors, Speculation, and Discussion

[icm]

I built my copy of the 10355 Blacktron Renegade yesterday. The space gun in the bag for the rover had the molding error that prevents use of the antistud of the side-scope, but the space gun in the bag for the cockpit didn't. Has anyone else experienced that? I'm glad one of them was good so I could still build the set, but now I need to file a broken-parts report for the other.

[Space78]

On 2/11/2025 at 1:12 PM, Lyichir said:

Here's some quick and dirty pictures of the modification: https://bsky.app/profile/lyichir.bsky.social/post/3lhwec47bys2s

My order also included a handful of other parts that I hope to maybe use in MOCs related to the City Space theme, including lime green elephant tails/trunks for a potential larger alien build and satin trans-purple 4x4 rock wedge pieces to maybe use for a larger energy crystal deposit.

Definitely an improvement over the original.  Well done!

[Murdoch17]

1 hour ago, icm said:

I built my copy of the 10355 Blacktron Renegade yesterday. The space gun in the bag for the rover had the molding error that prevents use of the antistud of the side-scope, but the space gun in the bag for the cockpit didn't. Has anyone else experienced that? I'm glad one of them was good so I could still build the set, but now I need to file a broken-parts report for the other.

Yes, it's a common thing, sadly. Contact LEGO for a replacement part @icm.

Edited February 12 by Murdoch17

[danth]

Legendary Lego designer Christian Faber spills the tea: Star Wars killed Lego Space. Timestamped link:

Quote

...but you know what happened you what happened when Star Wars came came in in 1997, 98, uh you know Lego had to scrap all their space teams because uh the deal between Lucas and Lego was you you're not doing any uh you know extraterrestrial or space stuff outside the the the the solar system so everything we did with space up until then was was stopped by Star Wars.

I know that the excuse-peddlers will be here instantly to deny this. He was joking, or he's a liar, or he follows me on Eurobricks and is just repeating what I have said.

But of course it's true, it was obvious even before getting confirmation, and anyone who denies it is disingenuous. The evidence has always been overwhelming.

1999, when the first Star Wars sets came out, was the first year since 1978 without a full wave of space sets released (only 20+ piece leftover sets from 1998).

2000 was the first year EVER since 1978 without Space sets.

Life on Mars in 2001 was a huge departure from every prior Space theme, and it was this way specifically to not compete with Star Wars. It was in the solar system, specifically on Mars, unlike every previous Space theme.

Then, there were no Space sets again until 2008. And they were on Mars again.

Only a total disingenuous or delusional person would think this had nothing to do with Star Wars.

EDIT 3/29/2025.

Found another Lego employee confirming that Star Wars killed Space.

Quote

I can see why collectors would want to categorize RR under Space. However, I worked for LEGO R&D at that time. I also managed the LUGNET set database at home. LEGO had acquired the Star Wars license, which I believe restricted them from continuing with Space as it had been. RR was part of a theme that was internally named “Underground.” A future wave of sets were to be called Magma Mites. They lived in molten caverns and had flame-shaped heads (which would have been the first departure from traditional head shape). Our team pitched heavy mining equipment with electronics built in and a computer-control tie-in for this sub-theme. But it was a difficult era for LEGO and Underground was killed off. If you search through retailer catalogs of that time, you may be able to find evidence of Underground.

 

Edited March 29 by danth

[icm]

Huh. Well, there it is. Clearly they were able to renegotiate some concessions later, since Space Police III and Galaxy Squad are as out-there as any pre-2000 Space themes and we've had some honest-to-goodness Space sets in the last few years (though labeled as other themes, with a cross-theme Space logo on the box), but maybe there's still some gremlin lurking in the license that meant they were legally obligated to shoehorn last year's Space sets into other themes. I also recently saw on Reddit a magazine scan from 2000 where Lego's marketing manager said they couldn't do Star Trek because they were focusing on Star Wars. I'm glad Lego has had enough weight recently to start making Space sets again, even if they are snuck in under Monkie Kid, Icons, Gift With Purchase, City, Friends, Dreamz, Creator 3-in-1, Collectible Minifigures, and Technic. I hope they can keep doing that for a long time.

Side note: A few days ago I built the new Renegade, the new City spaceship, and the classic Space Police II Galactic Mediator. The Renegade is a great set overall, but I find its shape hard to swoosh and I don't trust the clip joints enough to subject them to heavy mix-and-match play cycles. The City spaceship is really awkward and gangly with the lab module in the back, and I like it much better as a medium-sized spaceship with the lab module separated as a ground base - which is honestly the design intent! So, in my opinion, CS'24 still needs a big 918-class spaceship, because the 60446 is best as a smaller 924-class transport. As for the Galactic Mediator, I was quite surprised by how lightweight, rigid, and swooshable it is. After all these years, it might still be the best toy of the three.

Edited February 16 by icm

[SpacePolice89]

3 hours ago, danth said:

Quote

...but you know what happened you what happened when Star Wars came came in in 1997, 98, uh you know Lego had to scrap all their space teams because uh the deal between Lucas and Lego was you you're not doing any uh you know extraterrestrial or space stuff outside the the the the solar system so everything we did with space up until then was was stopped by Star Wars.

I know that the excuse-peddlers will be here instantly to deny this. He was joking, or he's a liar, or he follows me on Eurobricks and is just repeating what I have said.

But of course it's true, it was obvious even before getting confirmation, and anyone who denies it is disingenuous. The evidence has always been overwhelming.

1999, when the first Star Wars sets came out, was the first year since 1978 without a full wave of space sets released (only 20+ piece leftover sets from 1998).

2000 was the first year EVER since 1978 without Space sets.

Life on Mars in 2001 was a huge departure from every prior Space theme, and it was this way specifically to not compete with Star Wars. It was in the solar system, specifically on Mars, unlike every previous Space theme.

Then, there were no Space sets again until 2008. And they were on Mars again.

Only a total disingenuous or delusional person would think this had nothing to do with Star Wars

I remember that I was very disappointed when this happened in the late 90s. At first I didn't realize that Star Wars would kill off the Space theme and I was mostly indifferent about the licensed theme but then when they stopped making Space sets I saw what was happening. I couldn't understand why they would replace the cool looking Space sets with these boring gray and brown spaceships. I liked the Star Wars movies but I had no interest in a Lego SW theme and found the sets very boring. Star Wars killed the Space theme that I loved. The space themes that came later were never the same.

Edited February 16 by SpacePolice89

[Artanis I]

But let's be honest: Space was on a downward trend of quality from 1993. SW probably only replaced what would've sucked anyway (like the Castle stuff from the SW prequel release time period sucked)!

[Space78]

6 hours ago, danth said:

Legendary Lego designer Christian Faber spills the tea: Star Wars killed Lego Space. Timestamped link:

I know that the excuse-peddlers will be here instantly to deny this. He was joking, or he's a liar, or he follows me on Eurobricks and is just repeating what I have said.

But of course it's true, it was obvious even before getting confirmation, and anyone who denies it is disingenuous. The evidence has always been overwhelming.

1999, when the first Star Wars sets came out, was the first year since 1978 without a full wave of space sets released (only 20+ piece leftover sets from 1998).

2000 was the first year EVER since 1978 without Space sets.

Life on Mars in 2001 was a huge departure from every prior Space theme, and it was this way specifically to not compete with Star Wars. It was in the solar system, specifically on Mars, unlike every previous Space theme.

Then, there were no Space sets again until 2008. And they were on Mars again.

Only a total disingenuous or delusional person would think this had nothing to do with Star Wars.

Thanks for finding that nugget and posting.  I subscribe to his channel, but he posts so many videos it's hard to keep up.  Makes me wonder if this agreement is still in force?  The current City space theme still seems to be grounded in our Solar System, so it would fit the terms of the agreement with Lucasfilm (now Disney).

[Murdoch17]

From what I remember reading back in the day, the original SW 1999 contract was supposed to end in 2007 or 2008, and it was renegotiated and extended for another ten years or so. (This was also redone when Disney bought out Lucasfilm) So SPIII and after exists because of that renegotiated contract.

[GeoBrick]

I just looked up a random element in Bricklink (what sets it was in throughout time), and it appeared in a number of sets who back in 2009 and 2013 were space-based. Even named "Galactic this-or that".
Seems to discredit what this discussion is about?

[RichardGoring]

Shame that they interrupted him expanding further by having someone leave and another join.

[icm]

1 hour ago, Murdoch17 said:

From what I remember reading back in the day, the original SW 1999 contract was supposed to end in 2007 or 2008, and it was renegotiated and extended for another ten years or so. (This was also redone when Disney bought out Lucasfilm) So SPIII and after exists because of that renegotiated contract.

I, too, remember reading about the SW license renewal negotiations back in 2006 or so. I distinctly remember being worried that Lego was going to drop the license and there weren't going to be any new Star Wars sets in 2007. I told my mom and sister all about it as we were driving to Walmart.

Not coincidentally, the run of Space from 2007 (not 2008) through 2013 happened on that renegotiated Star Wars license before it was renegotiated again with the Disney buyout. @danth has been quite vocal about blaming the lack of Space since 2013 on the license terms of that buyout, and this statement by Christian Faber seems to support that idea.

Does anyone know what year the most recent Star Wars license renewal began? Was it 2022, coinciding with the Monkie Kid Galactic Explorer and the Icons Galaxy Explorer? That would make the first license run 1999-2006, the second license run 2007-2013, the third license run 2014-2021, and the fourth license run 2022+. Those work be 8 years, 7 years, and 8 years, so those would seem to be consistent lengths of license terms and consistent intervals of license renegotiations.

[danth]

2 hours ago, GeoBrick said:

I just looked up a random element in Bricklink (what sets it was in throughout time), and it appeared in a number of sets who back in 2009 and 2013 were space-based. Even named "Galactic this-or that".
Seems to discredit what this discussion is about?

There were space themes after the Prequels were no longer in theaters and before the Sequel trilogy. Mars Mission in 2007 was, obviously, on Mars, and in solar system. Then Space Police in 2009 was a bit more ambiguous, location wise, but all the boxes showed Earth in the background, so technically it was Earth based. Alien Conquest in 2011 was clearly on Earth. Finally in 2013, 8 years after Revenge of the Sith, we get Galaxy Squad, a Space theme that wasn't set in the solar system. Galaxy Squad was probably allowed to be in deep space after some time period elapsed.

And then, after Galaxy Squad, nothing, because the Force Awakens was coming.

So, yeah, in between Star Wars movie trilogies, we get Space themes again, but even then, 3 of the 4 were located on Mars or Earth. So it's clear that whatever licensing agreement was there just outright forbade Space themes while SW movies were in theaters, and even limited their scope beyond that.

It's also why we haven't seen a Space Creator 3-in-1 set, and why 2024 Space had to be set in the City theme. People still deny this, but they're absolutely delusional.

Galaxy Explorer and the Renegade are 18+ and don't even count as children's toys, so they get around the license.

Edited February 16 by danth

[Murdoch17]

26 minutes ago, danth said:

There were space themes after the Prequels were no longer in theaters and before the Sequel trilogy. Mars Mission in 2007 was, obviously, on Mars, and in solar system. Then Space Police in 2009 was a bit more ambiguous, location wise, but all the boxes showed Earth in the background, so technically it was Earth based. Alien Conquest in 2011 was clearly on Earth. Finally in 2013, 8 years after Revenge of the Sith, we get Galaxy Squad, a Space theme that wasn't set in the solar system. Galaxy Squad was probably allowed to be in deep space after some time period elapsed.

And then, after Galaxy Squad, nothing, because the Force Awakens was coming.

So, yeah, in between Star Wars movie trilogies, we get Space themes again, but even then, 3 of the 4 were located on Mars or Earth. So it's clear that whatever licensing agreement was there just outright forbade Space themes while SW movies were in theaters, and even limited their scope beyond that.

It's also why we haven't seen a Space Creator 3-in-1 set, and why 2024 Space had to be set in the City theme. People still deny this, but they're absolutely delusional.

Galaxy Explorer and the Renegade are 18+ and don't even count as children's toys, so they get around the license.

@danthCreator 3-in1 sets 31107 - Space Rover Explorer (from 2020), 31115 - Space Mining Mech (2021), 31111 - Cyber Drone (2021), and 31152 - Space Astronaut (2024, has a Vic Viper B-model) must all be fever dreams then.  I honestly wish I had delusions like these more often! 

 

Also, 18+ is just a marketing thing. LEGO has explicitly said this several times.

Edited February 16 by Murdoch17

[Lyichir]

I still don't think there's any reason at all to assume the current licensing terms would forbid a space theme even if it's not called "space" but would allow for a Lego City theme with sci-fi spaceships and aliens that has "SPACE" in huge letters on every box. The reason 2024 Space was in the City theme (and Friends, and Creator, and Duplo, and Technic, and Dreamzzz) was that it was a huge cross-theme promotion across many of Lego's themes (including some of their most successful ones), arguably bigger than any single theme would've been (and able to synergize with existing fans of those themes instead of competing directly against them). Disney would have to have some pretty crappy lawyers if they negotiated a contract that was meant to forbid Lego space themes but allowed a loophole that gigantic.

[danth]

57 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said:

Creator 3-in1 sets 31107 - Space Rover Explorer (from 2020), 31115 - Space Mining Mech (2021), 31111 - Cyber Drone (2021), and 31152 - Space Astronaut (2024, has a Vic Viper B-model) must all be fever dreams then.  I honestly wish I had delusions like these more often! 

None of these are (capital S) "Space" sets with recognizable classic factions (like how the Creator Castle had Black Falcons). Other than the Cyber Drone they're all in NASA colors too. Also a mech in NASA colors with no human pilot is a weird one...probably threading some legal needles there.

57 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said:

Also, 18+ is just a marketing thing. LEGO has explicitly said this several times.

Which affects what you can do based on your licensing agreements.

53 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

I still don't think there's any reason at all to assume the current licensing terms would forbid a space theme even if it's not called "space" but would allow for a Lego City theme with sci-fi spaceships and aliens that has "SPACE" in huge letters on every box. The reason 2024 Space was in the City theme (and Friends, and Creator, and Duplo, and Technic, and Dreamzzz) was that it was a huge cross-theme promotion across many of Lego's themes (including some of their most successful ones), arguably bigger than any single theme would've been (and able to synergize with existing fans of those themes instead of competing directly against them). Disney would have to have some pretty crappy lawyers if they negotiated a contract that was meant to forbid Lego space themes but allowed a loophole that gigantic.

I mean it's pretty obvious. Lego had NASA style space shuttle sets in City/Town before Star Wars. These assuredly had an exemption from any non-compete agreement since they are nothing like Star Wars sets.

Lego would have to have some pretty crappy lawyers if they negotiated a contract that was meant to forbid Lego space themes but DID NOT allow their City space shuttle sets.

The reason 2024 Space was in the City theme was because clearly, as we've heard now from the horse's mouth, they aren't allowed to have a separate Space theme. The idea that Friends fans are going to buy City Space sets because of some cross promotion or vice versa is stupid. People buy what they like and don't care about cross promotions based on some silver banner on a box -- which is exactly what people screamed at Space fans on this very forum when they asked why Space was now in City: "Who cares what's on the box, you're getting your stupid space sets, so shut up."

Edited February 16 by danth

[icm]

They don't need to have classic existing factions to be proper Space sets.

I bought all the Space sets in all the themes precisely because of that cross promotion even though I don't usually buy Friends or Technic, and I don't like the vast majority of the Dreamz theme.

Edited February 16 by icm

[danth]

13 minutes ago, icm said:

They don't need to have classic existing factions to be proper Space sets.

Are you saying that Creator 3-in-1 sets don't have to be existing factions to run afoul of whatever alleged licensing agreement would forbid Space sets in Creator? True.

But two of the mentioned sets were clearly NASA style sets (at least the main builds were). And I'm arguing that those are explicitly allowed.

The Cyber Drone isn't a spaceship but some sort of weird hover vehicle, and has a city on the box. It's sci-fi, sure, but not really Spacey, other than the logo on the minifig.

I don't even know what the deal is with the Space Mining mech. A NASA colored mech with no human pilot makes no sense and, I would think, appeals to nobody. Maybe it counts as a NASA robot under the licensing agreement, but wouldn't count if it had a human pilot.

I think what people fail to understand is that these licensing agreements are thousand page documents created by teams of lawyers. This isn't a napkin that says "nO SpAcE" agreed upon with a handshake. There are going to be hundreds of very specific criteria delineating exactly what is allowed and what isn't. And as long as you thread the legal needles, you're okay. Which is why you end up with weird stuff like NASA colored pilotless "mechs", and aliens in City sets.

Edited February 16 by danth

[GeoBrick]

If leaks are to be believed, LEGO managed to obtain rights on Star Trek. I doubt there's a more direct competitor to Star Wars then said franchise.

[Lyichir]

Anyway, on another note... I finally came up with a City Space MOC that I'm satisfied with! It's a Power Miners-esque rover for FebROVERy. I'd been toying with the idea for a while but only just got down to finally bringing it to something resembling completion. I doubt I'll be able to get ahold of the parts to build it physically before the end of the month, but I'm still proud of finally breaking through my "builder's block".

https://bsky.app/profile/lyichir.bsky.social/post/3licygeuw5s2r

Edited February 16 by Lyichir

[GeoBrick]

It looks good.. 
I hope you can get hold of the parts you need.

[RichardGoring]

7 hours ago, GeoBrick said:

If leaks are to be believed, LEGO managed to obtain rights on Star Trek. I doubt there's a more direct competitor to Star Wars then said franchise.

But there are two major differences between the two.

1. Star Trek is set several hundred years in the future in the Milky Way, whereas Star Wars is set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

2. Star Trek is amazing whereas Star Wars... 

But in all seriousness, if the new Star Wars license was done in 2022, it may have been part of a wider Disney license where 'competing' franchises aren't as important as with Lucasfilm doing the negotiating. Also it ties in with LEGO making a big push into the Adults Welcome/18+ marketing area, so they may have held out for the ability to explore other areas to support this. Hence classic/older space nostalgia and Star Trek. They may also guarantee Disney or Star Wars a certain proportion of sets/revenue/profit, making it more important for LEGO overall to be successful (for both parties), rather than just the Disney owned stuff. But who knows. As stated, these agreements will be hundreds of pages long.

[Ptchnk]

On 1/24/2025 at 7:28 PM, SpacePolice89 said:

While I prefer the original Futuron style I have no problem with including the new green ones from City or the orange ones from Build a Minifigure in my Space dioramas. The same goes for the Blacktron torso from Space Police III. I make the necessary adjustments so that they'll fit in with my original minifigs and sets.

 

 

The is a new set (60446) with 3 new update Futuron inspired torso (bright green, bright light orange and dark azute)

 

[SpacePolice89]

21 minutes ago, Ptchnk said:

The is a new set (60446) with 3 new update Futuron inspired torso (bright green, bright light orange and dark azute)

 

Yes, those minifigs are very nice. Unfortunately all necessary pieces in the correct colors does not exist for those.

[Ptchnk]

49 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Yes, those minifigs are very nice. Unfortunately all necessary pieces in the correct colors does not exist for those.

The motorcyle helmet, legs and arms are available in Dark Azure and Bright Green already. Those will just miss the 3838 air tanks but black will work fine with the torso desgin . This already better than for the previous redish orange torso for wich only the arms and hips are available so far.

I'm considering getting those with black hands and blank tank and may keep the black right arm.