Technic 2020 Set Discussion

[Maaboo the Witch]

  On 6/24/2020 at 3:10 AM, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Who is this guy? This is the first time I've heard of his name.

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Same here. No results for him on Google either. The Masked Designer has arrived! 

  On 6/23/2020 at 8:39 PM, Anio said:

with help from Mickael Jeppesen

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Yay Mic! 

  On 6/23/2020 at 8:39 PM, Anio said:

I am not sure Alfred is still working at TLG.

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I'll say it again - that's interesting. Maybe the "98-18" clue in 42097 had a deeper meaning than we first thought.

  On 6/23/2020 at 8:39 PM, Anio said:

42113 is Markus Kossman. He also worked closely on all models with new parts : 42112 cylinder, new parts in 42107 and 42115.

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Not surprising. 42113 does have shades of 42066 about it. Markus has also done sets with loads of new parts before, so that fits.

  On 6/23/2020 at 8:39 PM, Anio said:

And, Milan, well, he might be busy on another big project. =)

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JCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCBJCB.

[Anio]

  On 6/24/2020 at 8:43 AM, Maaboo35 said:

Markus has also done sets with loads of new parts before, so that fits.

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Markus is in charge of new parts in Technic at TLG for at least 15 years now. Maybe 20.

[Jim]

  On 6/23/2020 at 6:37 PM, dabo said:

Personally I think 2020 is not a very exciting year. Hope next year is better.

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Of course you are entitled to your opinion and preference, but I wonder what rocks your boat?

42112: Concrete Mixer Truck
42113: Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey
42114: 6x6 Volvo Articulated Hauler
42115: Lamborghini Sián FKP 37

Calling this not exciting means we are turning into spoiled children  

We would have died for the Volvo alone a couple of years ago 

[Maaboo the Witch]

  On 6/24/2020 at 9:32 AM, Jim said:

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and preference, but I wonder what rocks your boat?

42112: Concrete Mixer Truck
42113: Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey
42114: 6x6 Volvo Articulated Hauler
42115: Lamborghini Sián FKP 37

Calling this not exciting means we are turning into spoiled children  

We would have died for the Volvo alone a couple of years ago 

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They're great sets. I am not calling that into question at all. What disappoints me is the lack of B-models. The C+ stuff just about gets a pass (and even that is provisional, given Milan's work with 42100) because the rigid nature of the platform makes creating B-models harder. But the mobile crane and concrete mixer should have had official alternates. Relying solely on the fans isn't good practice in my view, and TLG should at least present a starting point for those who want to try making their own models.

[Timorzelorzworz]

  On 6/24/2020 at 9:42 AM, Maaboo35 said:

But the mobile crane and concrete mixer should have had official alternates

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Totally agree on this. For C+ models or licensed sets its more or less ok, but a shame for regular sets

Edited June 24, 2020 by Timorzelorzworz

[Bartybum]

  On 6/23/2020 at 3:41 PM, Maaboo35 said:

Tipping dump bed and steering? Never seen that before! And a complete lack of B-models? That is new! Woooooooow!

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That's a bad argument - you can make that argument for any vehicle that gets repeated. Almost every 2H model this year offers something new or not seen in ages, with exception to the Lamborghini. The Volvo has an RC gearbox, the cement truck has a working drum and the tiltrotor is a tiltrotor

[kbalage]

  On 6/24/2020 at 9:42 AM, Maaboo35 said:

They're great sets. I am not calling that into question at all. What disappoints me is the lack of B-models. 

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I guess TLG had an easy equation to solve and they are acting based on the results - sets sold vs. B model instructions downloaded for the different set categories. As I see well get B models for the cheaper (and) pullback series going forward and no B models for the bigger ones.

[Jim]

Regarding B-models; I’m pretty sure the download numbers of B-models are measured and taken into account. If only 5% (or less) of sales results in a B-model instruction download, it might be better to focus on other things. 

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:00 AM, kbalage said:

I guess TLG had an easy equation to solve and they are acting based on the results - sets sold vs. B model instructions downloaded for the different set categories. As I see well get B models for the cheaper (and) pullback series going forward and no B models for the bigger ones.

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You just beat me to it hehe

Effort vs customer value

[Maaboo the Witch]

  On 6/24/2020 at 9:56 AM, Bartybum said:

That's a bad argument - you can make that argument for any vehicle that gets repeated. Almost every 2H model this year offers something new or not seen in ages, with exception to the Lamborghini. The Volvo has an RC gearbox, the cement truck has a working drum and the tiltrotor is a tiltrotor

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Paradoxically, saying "that's a bad argument" is a bad argument.

My point was that @Timorzelorzworz was saying everything this year was new in principle, when only 42112's drum is even remotely new. The rest has been seen before, albeit not for a while in some cases. Tiltrotor - 8434. Motorized gearbox - 8043. Motorized dump bed - 8264.

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:00 AM, kbalage said:

I guess TLG had an easy equation to solve and they are acting based on the results - sets sold vs. B model instructions downloaded for the different set categories. As I see well get B models for the cheaper (and) pullback series going forward and no B models for the bigger ones.

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That isn't good in my view. And not including booklets for micro sets doesn't bode well on that front either. I have a feeling that B-models in general may be endangered. It's a shame, seeing as some B-models have attracted my interest to certain sets in the past.

[Timorzelorzworz]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:01 AM, Jim said:

Regarding B-models; I’m pretty sure the download numbers of B-models are measured and taken into account. If only 5% (or less) of sales results in a B-model instruction download, it might be better to focus on other things.

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Exactly, let it be 10% or 15%. If the number is low(er), it makes no sense to produce a B-model and waste many time to produce the instructions therefor as well. Besides that, without B-model it is much more space on the box to set the real model in scene.

[kbalage]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:12 AM, Maaboo35 said:

That isn't good in my view. And not including booklets for micro sets doesn't bode well on that front either. I have a feeling that B-models in general may be endangered. It's a shame, seeing as some B-models have attracted my interest to certain sets in the past.

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I'm not sure if it is that bad, especially if the interest in the B models is as low as @Jim said. I think replacing the lame combined models of the pullbacks with decent B models is a better strategy than forcing B models for all sets with a questionable result. If I have a look at the Technic sets from the last years, at least half of the B models felt like "we made something because we had to". 

Since Milan is the half-official B/C model factory and the alternate models are also very popular on rebrickable, we have a much better selection anyway to choose from.

[Maaboo the Witch]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:29 AM, kbalage said:

I'm not sure if it is that bad, especially if the interest in the B models is as low as @Jim said.

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Is it, though? Say that five per cent of Technic buyers do download instructions for alternates. How much of TLG's combined customer base buys Technic? Surely more dedicated fans are worth the effort. I for one always build the B, except 42006 for some reason. Never got round to it, I guess.

[Jim]

Maybe we will see news about TLG purchasing Rebrickable  

[AVCampos]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:34 AM, Maaboo35 said:

I for one always build the B, except 42006 for some reason. Never got round to it, I guess.

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I deduce don't have the 8284.

[WvG_853]

I think Lego is shooting itself in the foot with not providing B-Models anymore. Less value for money for the customers, systematic negative publicity in reviews. Lego should give the example and inspire (think of the brilliant 42078 B model) instead of counting on the community and Rebrickable to take care of that part.

[Maaboo the Witch]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:46 AM, AVCampos said:

I deduce don't have the 8284.

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I did once, only it was a crappy secondhand lot that I got from some spiv on Amazon (it had pins from the 80s in it). I did actually build the buggy first, then the tractor. I noticed recently that his store has gone the way of the dodo after some complaints, but I'm not gonna be smug about that. Oh well, maybe a little. 

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:51 AM, WvG_853 said:

I think Lego is shooting itself in the foot with not providing B-Models anymore. Less value for money for the customers, systematic negative publicity in reviews. Lego should give the example and inspire (think of the brilliant 42078 B model) instead of counting on the community and Rebrickable to take care of that part.

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Couldn't agree more.

[Akbalder]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:01 AM, Jim said:

Regarding B-models; I’m pretty sure the download numbers of B-models are measured and taken into account. If only 5% (or less) of sales results in a B-model instruction download, it might be better to focus on other things. 

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TLG stops providing paper manual for B model then decides that people don't use it. It looks like the usual strategy to stop something: "Reduce quality => People use it less => Remove it completely".

[Bartybum]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:12 AM, Maaboo35 said:

Paradoxically, saying "that's a bad argument" is a bad argument.

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Uh... no? Your argument held no water, therefore it was a bad argument. I supported my claim with good arguments

[Maaboo the Witch]

  On 6/24/2020 at 11:49 AM, Akbalder said:

TLG stops providing paper manual for B model then decides that people don't use it. It looks like the usual strategy to stop something: "Reduce quality => People use it less => Remove it completely".

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 Digital instructions are less accessible than booklets and take more effort to obtain. Plus it means staring at a screen for hours on end or printing them off yourself at great expense (even if you double up the pages), and is an altogether less pleasant experience than simply taking your time with a real manual. It should therefore come as zero surprise that less people would take that route.

  On 6/24/2020 at 11:55 AM, Bartybum said:

Uh... no? Your argument held no water, therefore it was a bad argument. I supported my claim with good arguments

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No, I was making a counterpoint to Tim's argument that everything in the 2H wave was entirely new. Which it isn't. Can we drop it now? Thanks.

[CrankyCraig]

While the addition of a B-model has influenced some of my past purchases, I'm not greatly sorry to see Lego moving away from them, unpopular as that opinion may be.

I want each and every Technic model released to be the absolute best it can be, and when building a B-model I can't help but imagine how much better it might have been had the parts palette not been restricted to that of the A-model.

It seems possible to me that dropping B-models entirely could mean, for example, that we get more A-models released per year. Or perhaps the time saved could be utilised by optimising each A-model, to give us an improved standard of A-model, with greater features & functions. It would also stop serving as a barrier to releasing similar A-models - 42078 B-model may have been great, but because of it we're unlikely to get what would have likely been an even better A-model any time soon.

[Bartybum]

  On 6/24/2020 at 10:12 AM, Maaboo35 said:

when only 42112's drum is even remotely new. The rest has been seen before, albeit not for a while in some cases. Tiltrotor - 8434. Motorized gearbox - 8043. Motorized dump bed - 8264.

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Also, look at those set numbers - they're ancient. The lastest one (8043) was almost a decade ago, so these functions might as well be new. Technically you're right but the point is almost entirely useless

[Maaboo the Witch]

  On 6/24/2020 at 12:09 PM, Bartybum said:

Technically you're right

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The best kind of right to be.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

  On 6/24/2020 at 12:09 PM, Bartybum said:

Also, look at those set numbers - they're ancient. The lastest one (8043) was almost a decade ago, so these functions might as well be new. Technically you're right but the point is almost entirely useless

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I heard that there also come new kids every now and then....

[dabo]

  On 6/24/2020 at 9:32 AM, Jim said:

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and preference, but I wonder what rocks your boat?

42112: Concrete Mixer Truck
42113: Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey
42114: 6x6 Volvo Articulated Hauler
42115: Lamborghini Sián FKP 37

Calling this not exciting means we are turning into spoiled children  

We would have died for the Volvo alone a couple of years ago 

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They just don't appeal to me for different reasons. I will pick up the Ducati though.

[howitzer]

I've always built B-models (for sets which have them) but I've never felt that a B-model deserves a lot of time on my shelf. Somehow they always seem to completely fall flat on expectations the A-models have set, even if I realize they're created as some kind of afterthought when the inventory of the A-model has been decided. Before the wide distribution of instructions over the Internet B-models really served a purpose of showing alternative ways of using the same set of parts but that purpose is pretty much obsolete now that we can get our hands on numerous C-models online, and many times with much better quality than what TLG can provide.

So I'm not really one to be disappointed by the lack of B-models in 2020 selection, but otherwise this year didn't offer much for me. I have no interest in the Lambo (unless I can get it for 150€ or something) and the Volvo doesn't seem worth the money either. Concrete mixer is fine but lacks interesting functions and as for new parts, I'm not really interested in those drum parts. Osprey appears to be great and the one larger set I'm going to buy this year. As for the first half, the mobile crane was a functional disappointment too, offering little new in the way of functions. Charger has some nice parts, but I'm still not a car guy so I guess I'll get those parts separately. Ducati is great too, but I'm not a motorcycle guy either so I don't see myself buying it unless there's a nice sale for it. Catamaran I thought about as it was on sale, but decided to skip, as good playability really requires water and that's impractical and I have no other use for those hull parts. Mini Claas and Buggy I just might get, those seem very nice for the price. Pullbacks and the Stuntshow aren't interesting either, as they don't offer much beside parts.