Duguay Trouin/HMS Implacable.

[Opproperaar]

I really didn't know where to put this so if it's in the wrong place could an admin please move it? Since it's about a ship, though not a LEGO one and it doesn't really have anything to do with LEGO I figured this was the best place to put it.

I wanted to share this story with you people as I'm pretty sure most of us don't know about it. We play with LEGO Pirates because we like LEGO, but perhaps, at least it would seem that way to me, most people here prefer that theme cause they love history and they love the beauty and the glory of the age of sail.

My dad told it to me about a year ago and I was talking to Captain Green Hair about it yesterday. I'm talking about the Duguay Trouin. Bear with me cause the story isn't too long but certainly sad.

She was a 74 gun ship of the line in the French navy and was built between 1796 and 1800 based on plans by an engineer called Rolland.

On the 21st of October 1805 she participated in the well known battle of Trafalgar, just two weeks later, on the 3rd of November she was attacked by an English squadron at Cape Ortegal. After heavy fighting her commander was killed and the ship was finally taken by Sir Richard Strahan. Commisioned in the Royal Navy as a 3rd rate, she served for the remainder of the Napoleonic Wars, capturing the Russian 74-gun ship of the line Vsevolod in the Baltic in 1808 and fighting Danish gunboats. In 1840 she was at Acre for the bombardment of that city. She remained in service until 1842. She was used as an accommodation ship, a training ship, a holiday ship, and a coal hulk. In 1943 she was renamed Foudroyant.

After the second World War, the British decided that her maintenance costed the state way too much (Britain was virtually bankrupt after the war) and subsequently tried to find a way of getting rid of her. They offered her back to the French navy who declined. After all, the ship had only been in French service for 5 years. The rest of her time she had been in British service. So, in spite of heavy protests, the Royal Navy decided to sink her. She was the second oldest ship in the Royal Navy at the time, the only one being older, the HMS Victory. On the 2nd of December, after 149 years of loyal service, she was towed out to sea and scuttled. :-( :-( :'-( :'-(

A link to a site in French, the pictures there speak for themselves. What do you people think now that you know of this? Surely nobody here can find it right what has happened back then? I still can't comprehend how an act like that was possible in the 20th century. How it could've been justified.

HMS Implacable or the sad end of a seventy-four

[Mister Phes]

This is definitely the right place!

The part I don't understand is the thread title "Duguay Trouin or the HMS Implacable"

Are you asking us to choose which we think is better? Which doesn't seem a fair comparison since one is a a man and the other is a ship X-D

[Opproperaar]

This is definitely the right place!

The part I don't understand is the thread title "Duguay Trouin or the HMS Implacable"

Are you asking us to choose which we think is better?

No just thought that by putting in both names I might attract more people to the topic, which I think certainly is worth of being noticed.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Hairy Ruben

[Mister Phes]

I've replaced the "or" with "and" as it makes more sense.

Do we have a portrait of this Duguay Trouin fellow?

[Opproperaar]

Do we have a portrait of this Duguay Trouin fellow?

? I don't understand, Duguay Trouin was simply how the ship was named in the French navy, after she was captured by the English, they renamed her Implacable.

Perhaps I didn't point this out enough :-$

Still, it remains a disgrace and would like to hear from all you history, LEGO, Ship freaks what you think. How could something like that happen. Of course we need to take intoaccount the fact that England was bankrupt but still, there must've been a different solution, perhaps sell it to yet another nation not damaged by war. Perhaps Sweden or the US. You never know and any excuse is good enough to save such a treasure! I just don't get how those sailors and how that captain was able to execute such an order. If British sailors claim they didn't like a ship such as the Bismarck to go down, then surely, one's heart must break when this happens.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Hairy Ruben

[Mister Phes]

I thought you were referring to Ren

[Bonaparte]

This ship has an interesting and rich history... it even participated in the battle of Trafalgar.

It hurts my heart to read how it was destroyed. It deserved a more glorious ending.

Shame on the British for destroying this great warship.

Thanks for bringing this ship and it's history to our attention.

[Chenben]

A very sad end for this ship after a huge carreer :'-(

[Lt. Col. Thok]

A sad ending to a sad story. Why wasn't it kept like the Brits kept the Victory?

[Opproperaar]

A sad ending to a sad story. Why wasn't it kept like the Brits kept the Victory?

Cause they couldn't keep it, the war made several European states go near bankrupcy. The Victory herself was very expensive to maintain and keep let alone a second sailing vessel. They tried to get rid of it by selling to France again, but they declined. Though instead of scuttling they could have at least asked other nations who did not suffer as much to buy the ship. It would've certainly made a lovely tourist attraction. :-(

[Chenben]

Cause they couldn't keep it, the war made several European states go near bankrupcy. The Victory herself was very expensive to maintain and keep let alone a second sailing vessel. They tried to get rid of it by selling to France again, but they declined. Though instead of scuttling they could have at least asked other nations who did not suffer as much to buy the ship. It would've certainly made a lovely tourist attraction. :-(

Sure, but when we have to rebuild a country, it's hard to think to a future tourist attraction 8-|

[Captain Green Hair]

Yes you've told me Ruben, the British are crazy, and the French too for not taking the ship back..............................too bad, makes me wanna cry! *wacko*

[Opproperaar]

[/i]

Sure, but when we have to rebuild a country, it's hard to think to a future tourist attraction 8-|

Why not? Government-operated tourist attractions bring in money for the government. Besides, there's a bit more to it than that. That ship ought to've been saved cause of its historical value. As a reminder of the age of sail. As a symbol of national pride. And if nothing else, the thought that the ship is worth millions being one of the last survivors of its era ought to be enough to save it. Reasos enough to preserve such ships for generations to come.

[Mister Phes]

Yes you've told me Ruben, the British are crazy, and the French too for not taking the ship back..............................too bad, makes me wanna cry! *wacko*

Oh dear! This is terribly upsetting! X-O

Someone built a replica at once!

[Capn Frank]

Cause they couldn't keep it, the war made several European states go near bankrupcy. The Victory herself was very expensive to maintain and keep let alone a second sailing vessel. They tried to get rid of it by selling to France again, but they declined. Though instead of scuttling they could have at least asked other nations who did not suffer as much to buy the ship. It would've certainly made a lovely tourist attraction. :-(

Maybe a small nation could have bought it and refurbished it and sell back to the UK when they weren't so broke for a higher price :-P

Thanx for sharing Mr. Ruben. *y*

Down the road i love to make a ship of the line,

i'm going to have to chose carefully though cause i'd like to make a HMS Sophie from M & C after the constitution is made.

Shouldn't take too long though cause the Sophie is a much smaller brig than the "super-frigate" i'm working on now. :-$

Anyways, maybe someone that's a fan of france could make one X-D

P

[Landlubber]

I thought you were referring to Ren

[Capn Frank]

So now the "or" makes more sense than the "and". Better change it back.

As for the tourist attraction debate, I doubt tourism was high on the priority list for many countries after WW2, so it's understandable. I'd hate to think of the maintenance costs for a ship like that.

How about the HMS Implacable, formally the Duguay Trouin?

that makes sense to me :-$

P

[Opproperaar]

So now the "or" makes more sense than the "and". Better change it back.

As for the tourist attraction debate, I doubt tourism was high on the priority list for many countries after WW2, so it's understandable. I'd hate to think of the maintenance costs for a ship like that.

Well no, but they could've sold it to a country like Sweden or the US, one of those few countries which hadn't been attacked and didn't have such huge costs in the rebuilding. Or perhaps decide to put the ship in a drydock and guard it for a couple of a years without doing maintenance. After the rebuild they could focus again on it. No matter the cost, it wouldn't justify sinking he ship. With a bit of creativity they could've come up with a solution. :'-(

[El Bucanero]

That's a very... very sad story.

Why did they sink it after all? Maintenance wouldn't cost a dime if you don't maintain it at all..

Wich is better then sinking a fine ship!

How about the HMS Implacable, formally the Duguay Trouin?

that makes sense to me :-$

P

Makes sense! But what about a slash? I love slashes!! ///// X-D

[Capn Frank]

That's a very... very sad story.

Why did they sink it after all? Maintenance wouldn't cost a dime if you don't maintain it at all..

Wich is better then sinking a fine ship!

Makes sense! But what about a slash? I love slashes!! ///// X-D

I guess slashes would work :-D

the HMS Implacable/Duguay Trouin *y*

P

[Mister Phes]

How about the HMS Implacable, formally the Duguay Trouin? that makes sense to me :-$

I don't get it... X-D Explain more Sir Phred.

[Capn Frank]

I don't get it... X-D Explain more Sir Phred.

Well, since it was originally the Duguay Trouin and then taken over by the UK and re-named the HMS Implacable.

As a british vessel, it was no longer the Duguay Trouin X-D

does it make sense now? :-)

P

[Col. Whipstick]

There's not much that can be done about spilt milk...

It is a huge tragedy to me and yet another of many endless consequences to Britain's involvement in two world wars that she could have avoided but whilst this isn't the forum to get too political Britain constantly sacrifices it's own people, culture, achievements and pride in the name of defending those it has no obligation to.

This ship is a mascot against liberal Britain if ever there was one but I don't think we've learnt anything. Money is money and that will never change but Britain will always waste it on a 3rd world backwater who's inhabitants don't give a damn about Britain than budget to preserve any token of true Britain. We never learnt from the American colonies, we never learnt from Ireland and I feel Britain never will learn. As far as the British government is concerned anything or anyone really British - and that reffers to colonials as well - the family of Canada, Australia, the US, NZ etc will always be last priority.

The Implacable isn't the victim of insufficient funding, it's the victim of a poor social agenda that's age old. I'm sure I'll get flak for saying this but feel it's something the European and American members of the forum need to recognise when we question why she was scuttled. Perhaps she could have been made some international heritage protection through the UN, she'd certainly have qualified but as a ship is she applicable, did organisations like that exist at the time? Who knows, someday if a competant more Nationalist party came to power in Britain and this country was actually run by and for Brits again some effort could be made to salvage the Implacable. Wasn't something like that done with the Mary Rose? I'll have to try see what went on with that ship.

[Col. Whipstick]

Yes you've told me Ruben, the British are crazy, and the French too for not taking the ship back..............................too bad, makes me wanna cry! *wacko*

Well the Royal Navy should have made the offer to more than just the French, I doubt the Dutch saying they'd take her but with any luck the Americans would have taken her. I wouldn't care about the HMS Implacable being on display in Boston or Jameston so long as she was preserved. In many ways Britain either didn't think it through clearly or were too stubborn about the nationality of the ship. Anyone who is prepared to purchase and care for these ships has a right to accomodate them in their country - that should be an international maritime law to prevent tragedies like the scuttling of this ship from ever happening again.

There should always be some wealthy American or Japanese firm or government to save the day hopefully. Britain could even have tried offering the ship to Canada or Australia that way still maintaining the British connection. Hell, if Peru said they'd buy the ship, let them have it!

[Tordenskjold]

Of course a country like sweden(or any other country that had the money) could have bought her. but why?? The only two countrys that this ship meant something for was UK and France. for other countrys it would be a nice ship, but nothing more than they could show from their own land.

We could buy it to Norway and show how big the enemy ships could have been when we fight them with our

gunboats ( many of the Danish boats was Norwegian) b ut again, why bother, spending money on something that historical ment nothing to us . and we too had little money after the war.