Blacktron Mafia: Day 2, Space Oddity

[Lind Whisperer]

So, everyone should be claiming to you, eh?

No, I said nothing of the sort. Don't twist things I haven't even said.

*ping*

Isn't this what you flipped out about yesterday? Who's the Godfather now, eh?

If I am a Godfather, I'm a lousy Godfather. I'm claiming a role the knowledge from which can only be known at this point by either the back-up or the roles themselves. And the difficulty of pretending to be a back-up would only get harder as the game progressed, and as roles were revealed. Why, why, why would I claim Near-Universal Back-up, of all roles, if I was the Godfather? :wacko: :wacko:

[CMP]

Aren't you pretty much just telling the scum "hey, don't impersonate PRs, we'll know about it!" ? Wouldn't it have been better to keep quiet about it for now to catch anyone trying to pull that off?

[Lind Whisperer]

I'm about to hit the sack, so maybe my logic is a little slow right now, but what's the benefit to having claimed in public, Clementine?

Read my posts, I've only shared it two or three times by now.

[CMP]

Read my posts, I've only shared it two or three times by now.

You really like that emoticon.

[Hinckley]

And the way you post gives me a head-ache.

Whit’s fur ye’ll no go past ye.

[Lind Whisperer]

Aren't you pretty much just telling the scum "hey, don't impersonate PRs, we'll know about it!" ? Wouldn't it have been better to keep quiet about it for now to catch anyone trying to pull that off?

Yes, and get an over-eager vig/SK knife in my back for my "acting scummy Day One," and town none the better for it. Waiting could be helpful to town, but if it's going to be helpful, it's more helpful on Day Two than on Day _____. Also, I'd only have been investigated later in the game post-block forming, and by then, I'll have either inherited a role - making the barometer idea pointless - or I'd have to fight through a wave of PM suspicions and explanations to explain it, or etc.. etc., etc.

All in all, it was just simplest to just put it out. And yes, that is what she said.

You really like that emoticon.

Well, people keep making my real-life face look like it.

[Hinckley]

Well, people keep making my real-life face look like it.

Dude, your mince craik makes ma' fizzog look like

[TheLazyChicken]

That's one assumption.

Assuming I was scum, how would I know, day 1, who the vig was? That makes no sense. If I was scum, all I would know was whether the kill failed or succeeded - not alignment.

I'm saying, I'm the backup. If one of the top PRs is killed, I inherit their ability. I inherited nothing last night. Ergo, the vig is alive and breathing.

Think of me as sort of a town gauge.

And I was serious about that protection.

And I get Watcher and Tracker mixed up.

Still, though, Tracker's not that uncommon a role. If we had one, they likely targeted you. And Scum would be aware of that, so point still sort of stands. Sort of.

That's new to me, I've heard of the role before but haven't actually seen it in a game.

I don't see why claiming in public "helped the town" You could've just claimed to someone in private if you were about to get lynched.

This actually may help scum because now they know they can't false role claim...

It's nice you told us this so we won't lynch you or kill you but you could've claimed to someone in private, it could help town better.

[Captain Nemo]

It's late (ironically because it's morning apparently), so I'm only going to drop a short comment on the matter at hand now, before I forget what I was going to say during my nap:

In regards to Clementine's claim--I utterly reject the call for our town blocker, whomever it may be, to spend effort protecting him. Clementine, aside from the fact that I think it was stupid to claim now, and more importantly publicly (with such an ability no less)--as it was entirely self interest (you just want a night bodyguard, and to save your own butt; I don't consider this action very town like, at least not with such an ability)--the town blocker should not defend you instead of another non-compromised person/PR. Your supposed ability is entirely passive, and rests solely on the fact that someone more important than you must die first for to work. Until that time, you are essentially vanilla. And so the town blocker must be protecting the more important assets. You are the back up, you shouldn't get first tier protection.

It's a risk for the blocker to protect you from here on out. There will be too much scrutiny and danger in protecting you, too high a chance of detection and a chance that an actual PR will be killed. Your barometer ability is passive; and in my opinion was supplied as a plan B for the town block--now everyone knows, and any potential PR save will be compromised, because after every death, the eyes will all be on you.

As for claiming in public, it would have been significantly more helpful to the town as a whole to have not done so. But we can't cry over spilled blue space milk at this point.

[Hinckley]

Then there's Dr. Wen, to me he seems like a townie noob, just like someone said above, him being scum would surely be foul play.

It's nice you told us this so we won't lynch you or kill you but you could've claimed to someone in private, it could help town better.

You say radge things, mate.

It's late (ironically because it's morning apparently), so I'm only going to drop a short comment on the matter at hand now, before I forget what I was going to say during my nap:

In regards to Clementine's claim--I utterly reject the call for our town blocker, whomever it may be, to spend effort protecting him. Clementine, aside from the fact that I think it was stupid to claim now, and more importantly publicly (with such an ability no less)--as it was entirely self interest (you just want a night bodyguard, and to save your own butt; I don't consider this action very town like, at least not with such an ability)--the town blocker should not defend you instead of another non-compromised person/PR. Your supposed ability is entirely passive, and rests solely on the fact that someone more important than you must die first for to work. Until that time, you are essentially vanilla. And so the town blocker must be protecting the more important assets. You are the back up, you shouldn't get first tier protection.

It's a risk for the blocker to protect you from here on out. There will be too much scrutiny and danger in protecting you, too high a chance of detection and a chance that an actual PR will be killed. Your barometer ability is passive; and in my opinion was supplied as a plan B for the town block--now everyone knows, and any potential PR save will be compromised, because after every death, the eyes will all be on you.

As for claiming in public, it would have been significantly more helpful to the town as a whole to have not done so. But we can't cry over spilled blue space milk at this point.

Eh? I think the blocker blocks and the protector protects, but I may just have a daft dobber.

[Lind Whisperer]

I don't see why claiming in public "helped the town" You could've just claimed to someone in private if you were about to get lynched.

Who? Who am I going to claim to? At this point, I have no one to trust. Anyone I PM could be scum.

This actually may help scum because now they know they can't false role claim...

How is that going to help scum?

In regards to Clementine's claim--I utterly reject the call for our town blocker, whomever it may be, to spend effort protecting him. Clementine, aside from the fact that I think it was stupid to claim now, and more importantly publicly (with such an ability no less)--as it was entirely self interest

All I've done this game, is try and help town. That's it. There's been no self-interest at any point.

(you just want a night bodyguard, and to save your own butt;

If I wanted to "save my own buttocks" I wouldn't have claimed unless I was trying to get out of a lynch.

I don't consider this action very town like, at least not with such an ability)

This makes no sense. Either I have the ability, and I'm town, or I don't, and I'm not town.

--the town blocker should not defend you instead of another non-compromised person/PR.

Yay. The blocker can block someone else, instead of the person trying to draw fire and focus. Good idea. Let's just the person intentionally trying to draw scum focus die, so that the scum won't kill someone they aren't trying to kill.

Your supposed ability is entirely passive, and rests solely on the fact that someone more important than you must die first for to work.

It also serves as a barometer of who's alive.

Until that time, you are essentially vanilla. And so the town blocker must be protecting the more important assets.

What assets? We don't have any assets, unless the investigator's someone found the blocker Day One.

You are the back up, you shouldn't get first tier protection.

Well, unless we get a vig claim, I'm the only tier, thank you kindly.

It's a risk for the blocker to protect you from here on out. There will be too much scrutiny and danger in protecting you, too high a chance of detection-

DETECTION BY WHOM? A TOWN-ORIENTED WATCHER? Seriously!

and a chance that an actual PR will be killed.

As in...the normal chance?

As for claiming in public, it would have been significantly more helpful to the town as a whole to have not done so. But we can't cry over spilled blue space milk at this point.

Yes, because wading through a morass of PMs and investigations would have been so much better, rock-brains.

[TheLazyChicken]

You say radge things, mate.

[Lind Whisperer]

I would like to thank you, though, Rip, for such a strong attack on me. If you hadn't done that, I wouldn't have gone over your posts. And I wouldn't have noticed that they are about 99% fluff.

I may be a miner, but this morning is still a bit too early even for me.

That being said, we are on the right track--we already got one Blacktron.

Fluff first post, means very little.

So we should do nothing? Nothing will be certain on day one; that doesn't mean we should be sitting around on our butts waiting to get space zapped by the Blacktrons.

Obvious statements are obvious.

I'd say you're not a very good advocate by that measure.

There's obviously not going to be certainty--there almost never is in the...game...of life. That being said, your last statement here seems to again suggest not doing anything because of uncertainty. "Everyone is posting fluff, so that's what I was doing"--at least that's how I read it.

"Can I get a fluffy obvious, y'all?"

Pigs in Spaaaace!!!

Incidentally I cannot leave for but an hour without everything crazy going on. But I want to ask this question to Doctor Wen (with a forward of all due respect to his person--no one has not felt embarrassed by Mafia, and so you shouldn't leave Eurobricks over it; this site is supposed to be fun after all, although sometimes with Mafia it may not always seem like it), which has not been brought up:

Why should we, as a town, be talking him down from the ledge?

We don't know him people! I'm just flabbergasted at this whole situation. From my perspective, he is either a terrible townie, a terrible scum, or some type of disgusting neutral. And while I've yet to see anything that actually leans him in one direction of allegiance over another (that I can tell)--all directions thus far have pointed towards at him being a continual detriment to the town, regardless of his true allegiance. I'm becoming more and more confident in who I'm going to vote for, and unless I can find a reason to change it, I'll be rooting for Doctor Wen to jump.

A bit of fluffy humor, and making sure not to tie himself down to anything.

Vote: Doctor Wen (Xenophobic Monoxide)

I think he's being a detriment to the town.

Fluff.

A wild, crazy, or violent person.

[TheLazyChicken]

Who? Who am I going to claim to? At this point, I have no one to trust. Anyone I PM could be scum.

How is that going to help scum?

You shouldn't have claimed this early yet, unless you were about to get lynched. By the time you might get lynched I think a person could be confirmed town already so you can claim to whoever that person is. Probably Seamus since he always starts the town block when he's town, he is a good candidate for the investigating first.

It helps the scum know not to false role claim, meaning less chances of town catching liars.

[Lind Whisperer]

You shouldn't have claimed this early yet, unless you were about to get lynched. By the time you might get lynched I think a person could be confirmed town already so you can claim to whoever that person is. Probably Seamus since he always starts the town block when he's town, he is a good candidate for the investigating first.

Yes, claim to the person I have feared and suspect/ed to be a Godfather. Brilliant suggestion.

It helps the scum know not to false role claim, meaning less chances of town catching liars.

Yeah, and if I don't have anyone to claim to, it doesn't matter if I can catch liars or not, because I have no way of calling them out.

[Ranger of the Forest]

but I didn't want us to go off track...

Which is why you role claimed for no apparent reason? I would be more inclined to believe your claim, as I’m not sure scum would try to pull something this crazy when there’s no need, but you are really way too defensive about this. Especially if you are actually town. There’s no reason why you should act so defensive about this information, unless you made it all up and are actually scum

But if you are town, what’s done is done, and we can’t change it, however much we may wish to. Also, since you chose to tell everyone this, deal with the consequences of your actions. And for spectraborg’s sake, would you try to stop jumping down the throat of every person who doubts the validity of your claim? It’s only natural to question this revelation, considering how odd it is, so please refrain from acting like everyone else is crazy for having some doubts. I know I do

[Tariq j]

I would like to thank you, though, Rip, for such a strong attack on me. If you hadn't done that, I wouldn't have gone over your posts. And I wouldn't have noticed that they are about 99% fluff.

Fluff first post, means very little.Obvious statements are obvious."Can I get a fluffy obvious, y'all?"A bit of fluffy humor, and making sure not to tie himself down to anything.

Fluff.

This pings me a lot, you're under scrutiny, and instead of defending yourself here you are trying to pass the attention on to someone else.

Saying someone's post is "Fluff" isn't exactly a reason to suspect them. It's basically a way of saying "oh look at this guy, he's scummy"

[MagPiesRUs]

You shouldn't have claimed this early yet, unless you were about to get lynched. By the time you might get lynched I think a person could be confirmed town already so you can claim to whoever that person is. Probably Seamus since he always starts the town block when he's town, he is a good candidate for the investigating first.

It helps the scum know not to false role claim, meaning less chances of town catching liars.

I'm pretty sure Seamus tends to start town blocks when he isn't town too...

I doubt we'll be able to get a town block together by today. If a cop investigates a townie on Night One, they're usually better off holding off on contacting them until they have a good reason to. There's always a risk they're the godfather, after all. I'm not sure why anyone would claim to Seamus on the off-chance he was investigated as a townie last night. While I agree that Clem claimed pretty prematurely, he was better off claiming publicly than privately at this point in the game.

Yes, claim to the person I have feared and suspect/ed to be a Godfather. Brilliant suggestion.

You seem to keep implying that Seamus is somehow more likely to be the godfather than anyone else. Why is that? Has there been anything about Seamus that makes you think he's the godfather? Or is it mainly just a metagame-y fear of yours?

*ping*If I am a Godfather, I'm a lousy Godfather. I'm claiming a role the knowledge from which can only be known at this point by either the back-up or the roles themselves. And the difficulty of pretending to be a back-up would only get harder as the game progressed, and as roles were revealed. Why, why, why would I claim Near-Universal Back-up, of all roles, if I was the Godfather? :wacko: :wacko:

To be fair, since only a universal back-up and the dead would know no PRs are dead yet, that also means we have no way to verify what you're saying. There are potentially some scum roles that could enable you to fake your roleclaim, like a shapeshifter (it's not a common role, but one I've been using lately), a role cop or a redirector in certain cases. As you said, it would be an increasingly hard role to fake as time went on, but it's likely a PR will die within the first few days at least. However, Occam's razor tells me that you're more likely to be telling the truth about your role. I'm not sure why I have his razor or how it achieved sentience, but stranger things have occurred during some of my smuggling runs.

[Bob]

I'm saying, I'm the backup.

You jackass. You've just ruined quite possibly one of the best chances to catch a scum in a lie about their role. Nobody was talking about lynching you today and you went out and claimed anyway.

DETECTION BY WHOM? A TOWN-ORIENTED WATCHER? Seriously!

It's called a tracker. Or a watcher, as you indicated. Or a peeping tom. There's tons of variants. Why are you assuming the town is the only one with a watcher-like role? Unless you're privy to information that we don't have.

[TheLazyChicken]

Yes, claim to the person I have feared and suspect/ed to be a Godfather. Brilliant suggestion.

Oh I forgot you suspected him...

To be honest, I don't even know how you would claim, if a town block got formed, then claim to Seamus, he would eventually be caught as scum if a lot of power roles die. Then you'll know for sure he's the godfather.

[Hinckley]

Oh I forgot you suspected him...

To be honest, I don't even know how you would claim, if a town block got formed, then claim to Seamus, he would eventually be caught as scum if a lot of power roles die. Then you'll know for sure he's the godfather.

Or I would keep them all alive and do my best to manipulate them. Cummoan mates, it's too early to trust anywan so nobody should be making any claims save for someone having a really good damn reason to do so. Being so afraid of me being the Godfather is pure metagaming and isn't producing anything worthwhile, so knock it down, aye. You should be treating everyone with the same suspicion at this point as any one of us has the same probability of being the Godfather.

[Dragonfire]

While I agree that Clem claimed pretty prematurely, he was better off claiming publicly than privately at this point in the game.

Yes, having Clementine's claim out in public will probably keep the lynch off her back for a while now. Smart scum move too - Clem was one of the top suspects and may well have been lynched today had she not claimed.

Minga would like to scrutinise the Doctor Wen bandwagon from yesterday. Wen was a perfect opportunity for scum to pile onto a Loyal newbie and get an easy lynch. Minga will provide some vote analysis shortly.

[TheLazyChicken]

Minga would like to scrutinise the Doctor Wen bandwagon from yesterday. Wen was a perfect opportunity for scum to pile onto a Loyal newbie and get an easy lynch. Minga will provide some vote analysis shortly.

We know Bock, Seamus, Diamond, Hannah, Harriet, Laura, Dave, Paul, 'Rip' and Nathan all voted for Doctor Wen. Ender did too but he's confirmed town.

Those who voted for Clementine were me, Minga, Zip Zop, and Vasquez, so did Clark and Doctor Wen but they're already confirmed to be town.

Then 4 of 2 and Clementine placed individual votes.

Scum like to spread their votes so with 19 players I suspect at least 4 scum members. Meaning 2 of them could be in Clementine bandwagon while the other 2 could be in the Dr. Wen bandwagon unless there was only 1 scummo in one bandwagon and 2 scummos in the other, this would mean that either 4 of 2 or Clementine could also be scum.

[Hinckley]

We know Bock, Seamus, Diamond, Hannah, Harriet, Laura, Dave, Paul, 'Rip' and Nathan all voted for Doctor Wen. Ender did too but he's confirmed town.

Those who voted for Clementine were me, Minga, Zip Zop, and Vasquez, so did Clark and Doctor Wen but they're already confirmed to be town.

Then 4 of 2 and Clementine placed individual votes.

Scum like to spread their votes so with 19 players I suspect at least 4 scum members. Meaning 2 of them could be in Clementine bandwagon while the other 2 could be in the Dr. Wen bandwagon unless there was only 1 scummo in one bandwagon and 2 scummos in the other, this would mean that either 4 of 2 or Clementine could also be scum.

Ay, you're a bloody hero! You've cracked the whole case, man. Roll yourself one and kick back...

[Dragonfire]

Okay. Here's Minga's vote analysis (just of the Wen bandwagon for now).

11 votes for Doctor Wen (Xenophobic Monoxide) (Mediumsnowman, Hinckley, Tariq, Bob, Captain Nemo, TinyPiesRUs, CallMePie, Fhomess, Piratedave84, Jluck, Ranger of the Forest)

First vote on Wen was Harriet. She had previously been extremely impatient for voting to start and had stated point blank that Dr. Wen was scum. Seamus soon followed, citing Wen's suspicious behaviour as his reason for voting; he had previously expressed his suspicion. Laura and Bock were next; both provided limited reasoning other than "his posts are suspicious". After two votes on Clementine, Rip then followed, in a similar fashion to the previous two votes. After a further two votes on Clementine, Nathan chimes in, pointing out some discrepancies in Wen's posts and using them as a basis for his vote. This is quickly followed by Diamond, who earlier called out Wen's contradictions. Major Dave placed the next vote, using Nathan's points as his basis for voting. And Paul votes as well, once again providing little reasoning or explanation other than "he's scummy". Ender (confirmed town) hammered the lynch. And then Hannah got her vote in, while saying that she wished she didn't have to.

Overall, Minga thinks that the majority of the Wen vote was comprised of bandwagon-y, sheepy votes which just stacked up and spelled Wen's doom. Only Diamond and Nathan actually made good cases against Wen, while Seamus was the first to call him out for his scummy posting. The votes which look the scummiest to Minga are Harriet, Laura, Rip and Paul's votes, simply because of the lack of reasoning and mindless bandwagoning.

This pings me a lot, you're under scrutiny, and instead of defending yourself here you are trying to pass the attention on to someone else.

Saying someone's post is "Fluff" isn't exactly a reason to suspect them. It's basically a way of saying "oh look at this guy, he's scummy"

I bet if Clementine had defended himself Laura would have said "Ping, you're SO scummy for defending yourself!" And I do think Clementine has a point about Rip, whether it was deflection or not.