More Realistic Couplers and other improvements for Future LEGO Trains

[Brickthus]

Hello everyone, it seems like it is time for this topic because of the anticipation of TLG doing something special for the 50th anniversary of lego trains...

"Something special" ought to include saving the trains theme.

The best thing TLG could do for LEGO trains is to make the couplings attach to a piece like a 2x3 plate with hole and not to the buffer beam. This would allow standard couplings to be used for trains of any width. As it is they are suitable only for 6-wide trains so they are a waste to builders of narrower, wider or narrow-gauge trains; no point spending £6 per vehicle (£12 per passenger train set or £24 per goods train set) on pairs of couplings you can't use. Hence those builders would not want to buy the train sets and TLG are cutting off half their market.

I realise the change was made after a child swallowed some Geomag and got his intestine ripped, but it doesn't need a whole buffer beam to attach the magnet to, to prevent the coupling being swallowed.

Until they do that I am reluctant to buy train sets and the LEGO trains theme will not thrive like it should. I use plates 2x3 with hole, a 5M thin liftarm and pegs instead of magnetic couplings for rakes of wagons and coaches.

Another item needed is restoration of the 1x2x3 train window glass in trans-clear.

Other than that, a new steamer as an improvement on Emerald Night (preferably wheels like BBB large ones) or a new Hobby Train set with versatility and a good set of specialist train parts, letting us get the ordinary bricks from other sets. If it were not for the bad couplings I would buy such a set in bulk.

Mark

[Duq]

Personally, the thing I would like to see is a much better done hobby train (i.e., better part selection, rare colors, printed instructions, etc.), with three variants (being true to normal Creator sets) that can build a locomotive, a couple of cars, or a couple of other cars. Thus providing a real set that can be bought in multiples.

You mean something like this:

You can vote for it here. Please do. At the current rate of getting support it'll reach 10k votes in June 2028.

Let us show LEGO that there are train fans around the World - please support this idea and all the other train projects....

That's the problem. There just aren't enough Lego Train fans around the world. We're a niche within a niche. It sucks, but that's where we are.

I've posted about this before. Have a look at all the train projects on Ideas (do a search for train, don't rely on tags). There are currently 3 projects with more than 1000 votes and even those 3, at the current rate of receiving votes, have no hope of reaching 10k in time.

Call me the prophet of doom, call me a glass-half-empty guy. I'm hoping for a 50th anniversary set but beyond that I'd be very surprised to see anything other than the 2 or 3 City sets every 3-4 years.

Of course I'd love to be wrong...

They shoulda released the train from the movie

Err... which train from which movie?

[Brickthus]

I don't see any real need to change the current couplings. I model in 7-wide, and I use the couplings just fine. Also, as Lego only make trains in 6-wide, the current couplings are fine for their products. I'd be extremely surprised if they're losing any kind of large portion of their sales because of 'wrong' couplings, and certainly not half their market.

Too many people in the AFOL community think along the lines of what is good for them and them alone, forgetting that in the grand scheme of things, they're a minute part of Lego's business. Yes it would be nice, but it would also be nice if I won the lottery, and as I don't even play it, that's not going to happen.

Of course if your models make good use of what is available then you would see no need for change Perfectly logical.

Too right that some AFOLs think only of what they want but conversely "you don't get what you don't ask for".

The "not going to happen" bit and the "minority market" bit are why I developed another solution. Roll on 3D printing

The couplings are fine for the most part. It's not hard or inaccurate to use a 6 wide coupling with a 7-8 wide locomotive. I've seen a lot of diesel locos and intermodal cars, and I don't think I've ever seen a coupling and buffer as wide as the loco or car. They're always a bit narrower than the body of the car or loco due to loading gauges and design. It's inconsequential to the design of a Lego train, and I doubt enough people are building proper 10 wide to make a difference. A difference of 1/2 or 1 stud between the end of a coupler and a car is actually more accurate than no gap. Anyways, I hope we get a big steamer, something interesting like a PRR T1 4-4-4-4. And since it is getting to the 50th anniversary, it'll probably be something big like a new Hobby Train, a DD40X, or maybe a UP Big Boy. Or possibly something along the lines of a improved My Own Train. At least I hope.

Accuracy depends on the choices you make for your modelling scheme. "Minifig scale" has a wide tolerance.

My trains have better scale accuracy than "OO", especially in matching the track gauge to the scale more closely. Hence I aspire to get things accurate and take small compromises on some items, all the while seeking to improve. The standard buffer measurements are OK for 6- or 7-wide but 8-wide is a stretch and it's too far out for 8mm scale. Even so I've used some on smaller wagons, at least before I was able to build more wagons that look the part. Continuous improvement aims to reduce compromises in the scale.

I could shave off the buffers and use my own separate ones but there's some risk to expensive parts in doing that, and it would probably look ugly. I suppose if the new couplings are so useless prior to chopping off the buffers then that would be the way to go, but there are other issues with them; it seems there is also more distance between the casing and the magnet as the magnet rotates inside the casing, weakening the train-pulling force and needing 1x2 plates or tiles to supplement the magnets. This compromises the whole function of the piece in connecting a train together reliably - they're not made for pulling heavy trains. In reality the base argument of "it's a toy" comes into play - these coupling pieces are not meant for AFOLs with big or heavy trains; they are OK only for 6-7-wide and modest train length.

The 1x2-plate or tile solution is no better than the liftarms and pins I'm using already, so no need to cut the couplings. It comes back to putting useless expensive items (£3 each, £6 per vehicle) in sets so I don't buy the sets - the base argument that the LEGO train sets are toys too. An extra wagon set aimed at the AFOL market is when the commercial side does consider what AFOLs want. Although it would be fine for 6-7-wide trains, the magnet strength vs train length issue arises. Unfortunately the couplings would be £6 in a £20 extra wagon set so extra wagon sets would not be economically viable either (30% waste), which might be why there aren't any extra wagon sets at the moment; the extra wagons would be "toys" by virtue/vice of having the toy couplings. Note that TLG may supply toys but AFOLs make decent models of all sizes; the fun is in making the decent models with the limitations of the parts provided. And of course one could not criticise TLG for making toys!

I doubt a new buffer beam is coming any time soon. In the ambassador forum I suggest many years ago the idea of making the actual buffers a separate part. Not only is it good for other train widths, it is particularly good for North American modelers. I still occasionally toss in a conventional buffer beam just for homage to the 10020 and similar vintage designs based on US trains.

I eventually resorted to making my own

As for big steam engines (which I think would make a fantastic set) I doubt Lego will go over 3 pairs of driving wheels. The tight lego curves will impede anything longer.

Buffers used to be separate pieces, attached to a 1x2 plate and added to the wagon bases that had integral magnets:

Hence the potential solution I would like has already existed!

A shame these are not still available as some of the 1x2 jumper plates or boat studs that I have used are a bit big for the scale, though they fit the overall impression of the end of the vehicle quite well.

From an AFOL perspective the newest buffers / magnets are indeed even worse than the old ones, supposedly for safety reasons but well... I don't see a kid swallow the whole magnet with it's surroundings. I can imagine that smaller magnets are dangerous but even then...

I think TLG panicked and over-reacted. The change from the 12V coupling shoe to the 9V coupling shoe meant the magnet was easier to remove from the shoe, and hence easier to swallow. The magnet could also attach to a 2x2 plate or an arm-end piece used in M-Tron sets. Clearly the swallowing incident required an end to the removability of the magnets from those pieces but a change to close the holes on the train coupling shoe would have been sufficient. I suppose someone thought that a) the magnet could still be removed from the shoe with sufficient force and b) it would cost more to assemble it at the factory anyway so why not make a bigger change.

Mark

[dr_spock]

I'm fine with the LEGO buffers. They don't look accurate for North America. Although, I found some MOWs with buffers in NA. I guess if you look hard enough, there is a prototype. It is possible to 3D print your own coupler. How about coupler box that can hold a Kadee coupler? Your local library may have 3D printers for library card holders to use.

We don't have any confirmations yet so it is still all speculation of course :)

For fun, I speculated my own Friends Party Train. No bar car since there are LEGO has rules on alcohol.

[Dan-147]

I'm fine with the LEGO buffers. They don't look accurate for North America. Although, I found some MOWs with buffers in NA. I guess if you look hard enough, there is a prototype. It is possible to 3D print your own coupler. How about coupler box that can hold a Kadee coupler? Your local library may have 3D printers for library card holders to use.

No need for a 3D printer. The standard Kadee 806 O gauge draft box can easily be attached to a 3 x 2 plate with hole using a #2 screw and nut plus a few small parts;

Here's an example mounted on my MOC locomotives and freight cars;

Dan-147

Edited August 11, 2015 by Dan-147

[Duq]

Can an admin split this thread into 2016 speculation and couplings/buffers?

[Lego Dino 500]

No need for a 3D printer. The standard Kadee 806 O gauge draft box can easily be attached to a 3 x 2 plate with hole using a #2 screw and nut plus a few small parts;

Here's an example mounted on my MOC locomotives and freight cars;

Dan-147

No joke, that's a really great solution.

If more brick link sellers than Sage Railworks made the same custom smoke generators, lights, and wheel sets, I'd buy them up in a heartbeat. I'd love to see the Train Tech community move closer and start to break walls with model trains, and it seems we're on the right path with ME Models and your custom couplers. Now if only ME Models made longer train base plates and smoke generators.

[JopieK]

In the 2016 forum more realistic train properties were discussed. Duq made the observation that it would be easier to put them in a separate topic, so please discuss anything about couplers and other improvements in here.

[Dutchiedoughnut]

Now if only ME Models made longer train base plates and smoke generators.

Well, we can build our own train base plates out of regular Lego without any difficulty ;). And I think it's possible to put a model train smoke generator in a Lego train.

The difficulty I see in a Lego model railroad is automation, how to get the thing to work automatically with multiple trains.

[JopieK]

Automation is not difficult at all. I use (Arduino like) Teensies with XBee to make it possible...

[Paperballpark]

Too right that some AFOLs think only of what they want but conversely "you don't get what you don't ask for".

Ah, well if you've raised your request with a Lego designer or other person of influence within Lego, then that's great and I commend you for that.

...

You have asked someone at Lego about it, haven't you?

[dr_spock]

Well, we can build our own train base plates out of regular Lego without any difficulty ;). And I think it's possible to put a model train smoke generator in a Lego train.

The difficulty I see in a Lego model railroad is automation, how to get the thing to work automatically with multiple trains.

I started a little journey into inexpensive automation making use of the existing LEGO PF trains without modifications. I had an Arduino controling two trains through infrared Power Functions and magnetic train detection.

No need for a 3D printer. The standard Kadee 806 O gauge draft box can easily be attached to a 3 x 2 plate with hole using a #2 screw and nut plus a few small parts;

Here's an example mounted on my MOC locomotives and freight cars;

Dan-147

Clever! I also like that Kadees can be uncoupled magnetically.

[xboxtravis7992]

I have used Kadee like couplers with HO trains, and have witnessed many a time HO trains getting to be very LONG. Seeing that an O gauge coupler can connect to Lego, might be the best non-purist move ever.

[Hod Carrier]

I was just idly thinking that perhaps LEGO could come up with a Kadee-alike knuckle coupler, but then I saw Dan-147's solution. It's certainly functional.

Personally I would like to a coupling system that would permit remote uncoupling which would allow for shunting/switching, which is something that the current system of magnets does not permit. It wouldn't necessarily preclude them from being included in sets, although I admit that the hinged parts and springs necessary to make them work might make them less friendly to rough handling by small fingers.

As AFOLs I guess it's up to us to decide how faithful we want to be to using authentic parts and legal construction methods to achieve the results we want or whether we want to add technologies from other areas such as model railways, whether that be control systems such as DCC, couplers, sound or smoke generators. Should LEGO cater to these needs? Perhaps. We are certainly one segment of their marketplace, even if only a small one, but the demands are likely to be low and therefore the costs high.

[THERIZE]

lego could make the remote couplers as separate 'expansions' and/or with the expert trains. Although I prefer magnets (just so handy, also for other uses) remote couplers could be fun. or perhaps they could make a system that 'splits' two magnets something I saw a while ago. I don't think we will something like that tho or at least not within a few years...

Edited August 12, 2015 by THERIZE

[JopieK]

We could try to design something for it and do a kickstarter of course.

[Aaron]

No need for a 3D printer. The standard Kadee 806 O gauge draft box can easily be attached to a 3 x 2 plate with hole using a #2 screw and nut plus a few small parts;

Here's an example mounted on my MOC locomotives and freight cars;

Dan-147

I use those same couplers. Where do you get the thin metal filler plates for the back of the gear boxes?

[Dan-147]

If you mean the U-shaped piece, it`s actually plastic. Evergreen sells sheets of white polystyrene in various thicknesses. I use a round needle file to cut the groove in a corner of the sheet, trying on the coupler box until it fits. Then I use a sharp hobby knife to score the sheet along the edges of the coupler box and then I snap it off. The final step is to use fine sandpaper (400 grit) on a flat surface (desk) to lightly sand the bottom of the coupler box with the spacer in place until the spacer is even with the bottom of the box. (Move the coupler box and spacer over the unmoving sandpaper, it`s much easier than the other way around.)

If you don`t like the white edge of the spacer, use a permanent black marker to "color" the spacer.

Hope this helps.

Dan-147

P.S. For clearance issues, I use a metal file to grind down the top of the #2 screw until the slot for the screwdriver disappears. The coupler and screw are then just a little less than 2 plates thick. Not having the slot for the screwdriver is not a problem since you don't want to overtighten.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Dan-147

[Dread Pirate Rob]

There was a mention a few years ago of trying elecromagnets on locomotives:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=66605

Was there any success? If not, I might turn my hand to Selander's elegant solution.

There are also a number of ways to make DCC controlled onboard kadee uncouplers from the clever boffins on the web.

[dr_spock]

I believe Kadee also makes a remote control uncoupling kit that fits large scale trains. Kadee also uncouples with magnets place by or under the track. You can uncouple any cars, not just those with the remote mechanism.

[Selander]

Yeah why not try this elegant solution

http://www.eurobrick...howtopic=102906

.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Selander

[JopieK]

That is also a good solution, but still too limited if you want to shunt cars since you can only decouple the car directly behind the engine and often want to decouple e.g. the last car.

[Rijkvv]

I doubt we'll see an official Lego functional coupler. In the grey era a decoupler was available but it was unreliable from what I've heard. So far, I think this is the best purist solution. While I might use non-purist BBB wheels and Sbrick in the future (and would use ME tracks if I had the space) I personally don't want to use Kadee couplers.

As for buffers, while European trains contain buffers I'm not happy about them either. Most of the modern rolling stock use square buffers, but in the Netherlands there are quite a number of locomotives who lack a plow and coaches and wagons never have those.

Maybe nitpicking, but I'd like to see some more options (square buffers without plow, round buffers with plow or no buffers at all for example) without the need to brick-build everything.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Richie

[JopieK]

I doubt we'll see an official Lego functional coupler. In the grey era a decoupler was available but it was unreliable from what I've heard. So far, I think this is the best purist solution. While I might use non-purist BBB wheels and Sbrick in the future (and would use ME tracks if I had the space) I personally don't want to use Kadee couplers.

That is a very workable solution. I have implemented it and control it using Arduino / PF (remote).

[LoneBrickerSG]

No need for a 3D printer. The standard Kadee 806 O gauge draft box can easily be attached to a 3 x 2 plate with hole using a #2 screw and nut plus a few small parts;

Here's an example mounted on my MOC locomotives and freight cars;

Dan-147

Ohhh... why did I have to see this.... this is dangerous for me...