CMP

You 'knowing' you're town helps nobody make a decision on you. Go back and read Chekhov's vote on you and let us know if there's anything in there you might have an opinion about. Maybe go back and read the rest of the day too? We've been talking about you a lot.

Why didn't Sulu call out yours when you voted for him? Why didn't you call out his for his empty response? Even if that's directed at Scotty and not you which, yes, makes more sense, I cannot fathom a world where a townie is so ambivalent about votes on them that they don't respond to it, only react when pushed by somebody else, won't respond to any of the reasoning behind the vote, and doesn't even appear to notice that the vote is built on a seriously hasty assumption, is a complete 180 from this person's previous suspicions, and is, overall, in your words, completely illogical: If somebody comes at you with an obvious BS accusation, you call it out. You claim I'm coming at you with some BS, and you're calling it out right now. And you voted for me, so it obviously concerns you. For complete apathy being a townread to you and it being- -you sure do seem to be doing the exact opposite, seeing as how you believe my accusations are baseless. Lotta quotes here, so I'll simplify this bottom bit. 1. Sulu's response to you coming at him with accusations that you admit are illogical and nonsensical is to ignore them. You think that's very sane, very measured, and very townie...and what you would do in that situation. 2. Your response to me coming at you with accusations that you believe are BS is to fight back and try and dismantle my argument. I assume you think you're acting very sane, very measured, and very townie, even though you're doing the exact opposite of what you said you would. See, number 2. is what you want when you level suspicions at somebody. You want a back-and-forth, you want the person to defend themselves so you can get a better read on them. You doing number 2. (heh) is the most genuine thing I've seen from you all day. It's what you do when somebody is targeting you. Unless, I guess, you're Sulu, and the person targeting you is Chekov. So...why the double standard? When you poke someone, Chekov, this is the response you look for, not This isn't townie. This is literally nothing.

Why not call out the BS????????

This is the worst kind of comedy routine. I can't tell if you don't see the problem or are willfully ignoring it, let me break it down for my own sanity. Chekov: "Sulu, I'm voting for you. I'm assuming McCoy is absolutely scum, so the logical thing to do is vote for you." Sulu: "Fine. Vote for me if you like, so you can focus on scummy people later. Like McCoy." Chekov: "This is perfectly, very sane and measured, and would be my response also." Your vote assumes that McCoy is scum. Sulu says "go ahead and vote me to focus on scummy people like McCoy." If he had even glanced at your vote and cared about refuting it, he'd realize "wait - this vote is insane and makes no sense!". Your poke has been completely ignored. Sulu doesn't care about your vote and doesn't even bother to answer your concerns. Why would a townie do that? Why would a townie with every reason to, you know, not got lynched and further hurt the town just roll over like that? That sort of apathy is why I was on Kyle so much during day 1. This is really suspicious behavior. It's like he just waiting out your suspicions rather than responding to them, except Sulu pretty much came out and said he didn't care. And yet what concerns me more is you. Sulu shrugs off your crazy illogical poke with a disturbingly apathetic and even more illogical response, and your takeaway is "oh that's a solid townread", but only after I call you guys out on this bizarre interaction I do not like to make this suggestion, and I certainly do not do it lightly: but this interaction feels staged. Chekov's vague suspicion based on literal nonsense is thrown at Sulu. After Scotty calls out Sulu, he deflects the suspicion away with literally nothing, without the suspicions even being looked at. After I call out the bizarre nature of this interaction, Chekov shows up and decides that Sulu's response, which had to be squeezed out in the first place, is a townread. Nothing about it feels like people acting naturally based on logic and reasoning.

Really, you wouldn't call him out on his absolutely backwards and senseless logic, ask what the hell he's talking about, and why he isn't voting for the person he's assuming is scum? You would also just roll over and say "go ahead and vote for me so you can focus on scummy guy" and just straight up not notice that the guy voting for you is already assuming that scummy guy is confirmed scum, and is in fact voting for you BECAUSE of that assumption?

Sorry, got caught busy yesterday. Pretty...I guess baffled about Kyle turning up Starfleet, too. Well, my main suspects after McCoy's day 1 bandwagon are gone and loyal. At this point, I guess either he's scum, Uhura's scum, or they avoided/slept through his bandwagon altogether. Rendering my primary reasoning Spock/Kyle lynch...pointless, really. So that ain't great. At this point, despite my reservations on day 1, I feel like the best move for us to make here is close the chapter on McCoy/Spock/Kyle altogether, so I'm going to Vote: Lieutenant Commander McCoy (Umbra-Mantis). I'll be straight-up: I'm not completely sold on finding him scummy. But as suspicious as they were acting, Spock and Kyle did. And I feel like we've pursued the angle of "scum jumped on an easy bandwagon on a townie" to apparently no avail. If he turns out scum, Uhura is as cleared as you can get in a game without night actions. If he turns out to be town, then I want to focus my attention on other people altogether. Like for example. Like...can we talk about this logic here for a second dude? Are you saying that, despite Spock and Kyle's suspicious behavior (suspicious enough for you to vote for both, so clearly you agreed), the fact they were both Starfleet means you are ready to just assume that McCoy is confirmed scum?? And then vote for somebody else entirely based on that assumption? Seriously, am I missing something here? You said you're poking Sulu for a reaction, but it seems like you're pushing your finger beyond suspension of disbelief in order to do so. It's almost as baffling as the response: His vote is based on the assumption that McCoy IS scum!! This makes no sense from EITHER of you!! Chekov is crazy, and Sulu has the attitude of either the worst townie ever or the laziest scum. I don't even believe he looked at the vote for him. Someone tell me I'm missing something.

I'm going to Vote: Lieutenant Kyle/KotZ for the reasons I've stated above. But it's an interesting analysis there by Chapel, I would like to see McCoy's response to those suspicions... I think we're beyond that now.

Well that's unfortunate. Felt way too thirsty for a lynch to come across townie to me. Oh well. Lots to dissect from yesterday's discussion. First of all I have to address this statement. Duh. Kyle. That's half of everyone left in the game. There's two scum left. It's statistically improbable that at least one is NOT in the first four votes on Spock. You say this with such confidence but those first four people are literally half of everyone. Why four, anyway? Why not three or five? I'm the fourth, so I guess saying the first four supports your suspicions of me? I made the 'jump' when Spock kept worsening the case against him. You wouldn't say anything for a decent length of time, which I was not thrilled about, but meanwhile, Spock kept digging his own space-grave. I suppose that's fair, but it would be a pretty ballsy move for a scum to start directly undermining a pretty good bandwagon rolling against their teammate by throwing shade on said bandwagon and those who started it (I consider this to be Kyle and Spock). Personally, I'm not inclined to suspect Uhura right now...her lacking contributions notwithstanding () I do want to note her willingness to cast the first (real) stone and make the first (legitimate) vote based on actual suspicions. The ones that Kyle and Spock brought up but took their sweet time acting on by actually voting. I do like Kyle making actual arguments and analysis today, it is a welcome change of pace, but he's still at the top of my list for now. Sorry. Kyle. To clarify a bit, I think the bandwagon on McCoy is, overall, highly suspect, but I suspect the person that waited for the first vote more than the person that actually put down that first vote.

Exactly this. Regardless of what your lynch might directly tell us Spock, look at all this discussion we've gotten done in the time since the McCoy bandwagon fell apart. If everyone hopped on it, we wouldn't have nearly as much to dissect in the days to come. The more we talk, the more chances scum have to slip up. So everybody start screaming!

Sorry, took me twenty minutes to figure out how to switch my nametag. I rate your defense an "ok"/10.

Uh, yeah. I voted for you. I guess you can consider that an axe to grind? You haven't even acknowledged any of this. The most defense that came about as a result of this wasn't even from you, it was from Spock. You haven't given me a reason not to look at you and have my suspicions. I suspect your lukewarm vote on McCoy, I suspect your constant fluff, and I suspect that you seem content to have let Spock speak for you. Don't roll over and cry tunnel vision, tell me why I'm wrong.

Comments like these give the impression that suspicion and reasoning is secondary to getting a lynch. That's a really bad color if you're a townie. If. I'm going to Unvote: Lieutenant Kyle/KotZ and Vote: Spock/Trekkie99. But I know who to look at next if Spock comes up scum. Kyle. Kyle who hasn't shown up since he's started being seriously looked at. Drop in and come say hi when you have a chance.

Not to put words into McCoy's mouth, but his statement, iffy as it might be, isn't incorrect. We are actively being discouraged from a no-lynch with a threat far greater than normal; the lynch is literally our only tool to find scum. You said yourself that the vote is vital; we're not getting night action results, we're not getting masons to guide us, we can't even chat in private. In a normal game, two late votes for the same suspect would be highly suspicious. This isn't a normal game. We won't be getting many suspects, the day is compressed, and the vote is literally all we have. I know we need a lynch, and we have to start somewhere, but I don't like how easily this particular bandwagon is moving along based on "McCoy said lynching based on most votes would benefit scum". Kyle said it's suspicious, but waited until Uhura placed the vote to put his money where his mouth is (instead of his constant stream of fluff. Which doesn't constitute activity. Kyle. ) Also, all of this. I get that you want a lynch here Spock, but that doesn't mean you get to not think about your reasoning for more than five seconds. I'm going to Vote: Lieutenant Kyle (KotZ) for the time being, though. But I'd be careful jumping to people's defense this early, Spock.

Okay, this is pretty much word-for-word what you said earlier, but are you going to respond the explanation behind his logic, or did you skip that part to post more fluff? to the*

Someone clean the bridge, it's filthy. Wait... That would fall to me too, wouldn't it?

Toeing the line between life and death is what us redshirts do for a living, LC. It's nice to drag you all down to our level once in a while, put you in our shoes for a change.

This sounds ridiculous, poorly conceived and barbaric. Let's do it.

Ensign Mallory reporting for duty. Ready to be the first one dead as per my redshirt contract, captain.

If there's room for nine/a reserve, I'm back from a brief vacation and I wouldn't mind a quick game. Even if it does mean I have to be surrounded by Trekkies. Again. (I would've signed up earlier but I thought it'd start earlier and I'd miss the first two or three days)

Good game everyone. Was really curious to see how the two scum teams were going to play out, and despite a pretty terrible start, town lasted longer than I expected. Been a long time since I've followed a mafia game, and enjoyed doing so with this one.

Leaving it more freeform is an option. I personally am a rules-oriented person, but that's just me.

We could separate them out further. Have Abilities that for all intents and purposes are basically just non-magical spells, purchased with EXP and governed by Smarts rather than Spirit. Each could correspond to one or several proficiencies for the purposes of tests - much like the magical skills (Nature, Arcana, Occult, Religion) - and follow the same sort of rules.

I suppose it would make sense for Spirit to start at 0. And pretty much. Each proficiency's ability wouldn't be any more complicated than an individual spell, so I don't really see the problem there. Defend and Rally are fine but ultimately that's just three actions while spellcasters are getting an entire host of spells and whatnot. I'm not saying they have to be tied into proficiencies, it just seemed like the most logical way to do it. There just needs to be an avenue to gain abilities in the way that spellcasters gain spells. Attribute limits keep min-maxing from getting out of hand. Let's say a player wants to do nothing but use a sniper. Naturally, they should be very good at it. But if they pump every attribute point they get into long-range weapons, and get a really good sniper, they're going to be rolling enough dice to make an enemy's Armor completely irrelevant. They are going to hit and they are going to do stupid amounts of damage. An Attribute limit puts a cap on the number of successes you can possibly get. Not a cap on the dice you roll, but on the successes only. So, even if your proficiency in long range is ridiculous, and your weapon is really great, you can't go one-shotting everything. Sure, you're probably rolling enough to where your successes are pushing the limit, but because of the limit, you can't turn it all into obscene amounts of damage. Picture if Heroica had a limit on how many multipliers you could put on a single hit's worth of damage. Basically, you can optimize being able to hit, but your damage can't launch into the stratosphere if you do.

A few of my takeaways from that last round of suggestions: I like the grid-based row mechanic. I do think that there's a few interesting things you could do with it: say for example, if you have a melee hero move into the enemy grid, a hero on their other side can flank for an attack bonus. Or have some squares grant cover to ranged fighters. Or difficult terrain...that sort of thing. I really really like WBD's progression system. I think individual spells should maybe be part of that progression. But my main question is whether or not classes (or rather, what they do) should remain a thing. Things like buffing allies and debuffing enemies and whatnot. You shouldn't have to be a spellcaster to get to do cool stuff. All it really takes is a high proficiency. But I'm kind of rambling and I feel like I can't really articulate what I'm thinking about right now, so I'm just going to provide what I think might be good edits/elaborations. Edits in orange. Starting Character: 10 Experience Points, 2 Proficiencies at Rank 1, All Attributes at Score 1, 5 HP Proficiency ranks cost EXP equal to the rank you increase to (i.e. to move a proficiency from 0 to 1 requires 1 EXP, 1 to 2 requires 2 EXP, 2 to 3 requires 3 EXP, etc.) Attribute scores cost EXP equal to the score you increase to Additional Hit Points cost 1 EXP Additional Spells cost their listed EXP Attributes: Strength (A requirement for kinetic weapons and armor. Every point grants +1 bonus HP, and affects strength limit.) Skill (A requirement for energy weapons. Every two points increase dodge and initiative, and affects skill limit.) Smarts (A requirement for elemental weapons. Every point increases your maximum proficiency ranks and number, and affects smarts limit.) Spirit (A requirement for spellcasting. Every point increases your maximum spells known and their potency, and affects spirit limit.) Stats: HP (5 + HP from EXP + Strength) Initiative Pool (1 + Skill/2)d6, skill limit Armor [Type] (Armor Mod + Skill/2) Attack [Weapon] Test (Weapon Mod + relevant Proficiency)d6, [Weapon Attribute] limit Proficiency Test (Relevant Proficiency)d6, smarts limit Magic Test (Relevant Proficiency)d6, spirit limit Derived Stats: Maximum Proficiencies (Smarts*4) Maximum Proficiency Rank (Smarts*3) Maximum Spells Known (Spirit*2) Strength Limit (Strength*2) Skill Limit (Skill*2) Smarts Limit (Smarts*2) Spirit Limit (Spirit*2) Proficiencies: Short Range Weapons (Pistols, shotguns, thrown weapons.) Long Range Weapons (Rifles, snipers, bows.) Artillery Weapons (Grenade launchers, rocket launchers.) Melee Weapons (Swords, axes, clubs.) Acrobatics (Flexibility, gymnastics. Ability: Jump Strike) Athletics (Endurance, physical feats. Ability: Grapple) Arcana (Enchantment, abjuration. Arcane Magic) Computers (Electronics, software. Ability: Hack Machine) Culture (Customs, translation. Ability: Identify) Deception (Lying, misdirection. Ability: Feint) Engineering (Mechanics, hardware. Ability: Weapon Boost) History (Study of the past, knowledge. Ability: Adaptation) Insight (Investigation, reading people. Ability: Spot Weakness) Intimidation (Bullying, frightening. Ability: Demoralize) Medicine (Health, medicine. Ability: Healing Injection) Nature (Elemental, conjuration. Druidic Magic) Occult (Necromancy, spirtism. Occult Magic) Perception (Spotting, searching. Ability: Mark Target) Performance (Dancing, singing. Ability: Mesmerize) Persuasion (Negotiation, diplomacy. Ability: Encourage) Piloting (Flying, driving. Ability: Drone Strike) Religion (Divination, restoration. Divine Magic) Sleight of Hand (Pickpocketing, lockpicking. Ability: Steal) Stealth (Sneaking, hiding. Ability: Hide) Survival (Hunting, tracking. Ability: Hunt Down) Spells: Elemental Beam (Arcana, Nature) Cost to Learn: 2 EXP Base DC: 2 Base Range: 1 Damage: Successes beyond DC, Elemental Fires a beam in a straight line that deals elemental damage to all targets in a row, friendly or enemy. For every 2 by which you choose to increase the DC, the range increases by 1. Spell (and those abilities) are just examples. My other idea was, for damaging spells, doing a Spell Modifier like a Weapon Modifier and straight up targeting enemy Armor. But basically, I think we should tie the ability to do things in battle besides attacking into proficiencies. The alternative is straight-up buying spells, which is another valid option.

The Ragnaroks were definitely some of my favorite mafias, and a big part of that just boils down to a great host being a great host. In fact, looking at the Index, it looks like he may have hosted the very first mafia game here, too. We've truly lost one of the greats. Rest in peace TPRU.