Blondie-Wan

Actually, four movies (and a neglected TV show) and 17 sets (18 if one counts the ultra-limited Comic-Con exclusive), and there aren't exactly any battle-packs (I'd actually argue there aren't enough "army builders," or at least enough that were really cost-effective for that purpose), but your basic point does stand. Fortunately, I for one have enough elements to make my own versions of most things in those movies (and I'd prefer to do that anyway), but it would be nice to have had more actual sets. In particular I would have dearly loved to have seen sets from The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, but that was always unlikely. Actually, the initial wave of Indiana Jones was made up entirely of stuff from the earlier movies, and then the second wave was built around the launch of the new movie (a theme launch strategy similar to the ones used by Toy Story and Star Wars, two other themes built around long-established movie franchises that got new installments after long waits). Pirates of the Caribbean was the exception in having a launch wave made up primarily of sets from the new movie mixed with some from the older ones. That's really interesting; it's at odds with a number of short-lived licensed themes they've done that had single waves, right up to pretty much the present (Avatar the Last Airbender, Speed Racer, Prince of Persia). It's especially interesting that he specifically cites Indiana Jones, since I don't think that's been extraordinarily long-lived, though it was longer-lived than so many others (Indiana Jones had four waves, two years with two waves each; those first three I mentioned earlier in this paragraph had a single wave apiece and were gone - Avatar had just two sets, I think). If anything, I'd have expected him to cite Harry Potter before Indiana Jones... but Indy was probably the third-largest prior to the current development with the DC Universe, which can be viewed as an extension / expansion of the earlier Batman sets and vice versa, perhaps making DC the largest licensed theme up to now. Anyway, I'd always thought those single-wave licensed themes were done with no expectation of carrying them beyond their launch waves, as a means of quickly capitalizing on an opportunity without a lot of long-term risk from planning multiple waves. These remarks seem to me to suggest otherwise, as though they'd thought Speed Racer or Prince of Persia or the like might have gone on a while. While I don't profess to have any particular insight into what movies and franchises will be successful and generate long-term, ongoing merchandise lines, I certainly never would have expected those themes to go on; I pretty much assumed TLG itself intended them as single-wave themes, even months before they were launched (I also further expected / hoped Indiana Jones to resume the year after Prince of Persia took its temporary turn in the spotlight). I wonder if he's referring not to the specific themes but to the partnerships with their rightsholders, as there are really just a small number of companies from which the overwhelming majority of the licensed themes are licensed - just the three companies of Lucasfilm, Disney and Warner Bros. together account for Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Mickey Mouse, Winnie the Pooh, Disney Princesses, Toy Story, Cars, Prince of Persia, Pirates of the Caribbean, Marvel Universe / Avengers, DC Universe / Batman, Harry Potter and Speed Racer. Each of those three companies' agreements with TLG began a decade ago or longer.

Unfortunately, they actually can't just sell the licensed minifigures on their own, at least not in the case of Star Wars, which of course is the largest licensed theme (one of the largest themes of any kind, actually), and possibly others. Since other toy companies hold rights for "action figures" for given properties such as Star Wars, TLG has to include enough of a real building experience in a set for it to unmistakably be a "construction toy" as opposed to just a "figure," even one that comes in pieces. The battle droid torsos (and many other droid elements) were designed for Star Wars, and then reused for all sorts of other things in numerous other themes (as well as being used in Star Wars again in different ways, just like any other good LEGO element). Indeed, those parts aren't considered licensed elements, since even though they were specifically designed for specific needs of the theme, they weren't so specific that they couldn't be used any other way and weren't immediately, necessarily evocative of Star Wars in particular (unlike, say, the Darth Vader helmet). You can in fact buy those very droid torsos (and all the other parts of battle droids, except the heads which are very clearly Star Wars battle droid heads) in Pick-a-Brick for that very reason (whereas the heads are considered licensed elements, so no). As noted, other elements in some of these images were specifically designed for Star Wars - some of which are so specifically "Star Wars-ian" as to be considered licensed elements (such as the Rebel trooper helmets) and thus not used by TLG in any other sets, and some which aren't (such as the lightsaber hilts and blades), which even though they were specifically called for by the theme, are sufficiently "generic" enough in shape that they work well for many, many other functions and that TLG routinely uses them in other sets for other functions. But even some "true" licensed elements are useable for other things by clever builders. For example, I've seen those very Rebel trooper helmets seen there also used for lighting fixtures on the side of a vintage "movie palace"-style theater. Sometimes licensed themes help bring about elements which for which there already exists some demand, but which might not ever exist had the themes not been done. For example, TLG never offered minifigure fedoras or shoulder bags until they did a licensed theme for which they were absolutely necessary, Indiana Jones - but once they did that and had the molds, they began using them in all sorts of other themes. Indiana Jones has benefited enthusiasts of City, Wild West and other themes whether they had any direct interest in Indiana Jones or not. Exactly. All that said, one major complaint of yours regarding licensed sets is definitely an issue: Now, if the retailers in your country are eschewing non-licensed sets in order to devote all of their limited LEGO shelf space to licensed themes, that is unfortunate, and I do feel for you. That is a very serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Indeed. The Millennium Falcon is notoriously tough to recreate in LEGO really well, even with a lot more time and flexibility in scale, as most or all LEGO Star Wars fans (and LEGO employees) surely know all too well, and this is a very good rendition already, particularly given the constraints under which it was made. Nicely done!

So do I! I actually intended to vote in that myself, but never could quite decide which ones to vote for. (I hope I don't come off as rude in my previous reply, BTW, and apologize if I do. In fairness, you were simply one of a handful of posters here who'd said similar things about TLG diminishing the "collectibility" of the minifigures, and I've always taken issue with that stance, and I wound up pouring out into that one post nearly everything I had to say on the subject.) (That said, if I'd remembered at the time, I also would have noted that the first two series in particular were produced in much smaller quantities than the later ones since TLG didn't originally anticipate the tremendous demand, and so it was possible that they were making up for this by offering parts from just those two series in things like BAM and the calendar and this phantom VIP-only set and so on. I don't know whether that's the case, but I do know that all the Minifigures minifigure elements I've seen in BAM so far have been from the first two series.)

How is it being misused? First of all, there's no indication the Minifigures monsters will be used in this theme; indeed, it's virtually certain they're used in those preliminary photos as placeholders for the figures that will come in the final sets. Undoubtedly the final figures will occupy the same archetypal niches, e.g. mummies and vampires and so on, but they'll undoubtedly have their own prints, colors, etc. that distinguish them from the so-called collectible ones, just as the latter were distinguished from the mummies and vampires and so on in other themes before them (or even out at the same time, such as the mummies in Pharaoh's Quest and the ones in Minifigures Series 3). Second, "collectible" doesn't automatically mean "limited edition" or "limited availability." It certainly does sometimes carry that connotation, but not necessarily; it really need mean only that something lends itself to being collected, and the minifigures certainly do that. Red 2x4 bricks are pretty darn common and not remotely limited, but that doesn't mean they're not part of my LEGO collection. Third, even if this weren't the case, the minifigures are still pretty limited, compared to lots of typical minifigures in other themes. Each series is produced and available for a limited time, as opposed to most other figures who are found in sets that usually stay around for several months or even a year or more (and may even be in multiple sets, often ones produced over a period of years). Fourth, technically the figures in the calendar and elements in BAM kiosks aren't the same as the minifigure sets - they lack the overall package, including the 3x4 base tile/plate and the little posters and all. If you get the brick calendar, you get a cheerleader and a skateboarder, but you don't get the whole cheerleader package or skateboarder package that you get if you buy a packet of set 8683 - the calendar doesn't have the figure base (or the poster/leaflet). And fifth and finally, TLG doesn't even actually use the word "collectible" much (if at all) in describing the figures anyway - the official name of the theme is simply "Minifigures," not "Collectible minifigs" as they're typically referred to here. They do speak of collecting them all, trading with friends, etc., but either don't use the word "collectible" at all, or use it so infrequently you have to dig around to find it. How are they misusing something they're not using?

I've been wanting to do the same thing with other games (mainly the old Star Wars RPG from West End Games, and old-school AD&D) for years, myself.

I think they'd be a great idea as well, and I'm not actually as doubtful as you are that they'll happen - or rather, I think they might happen in a slightly different form, specifically polybag promos. They seem to be moving away from impulse sets in those little square boxes, but they've certainly embraced polybagged promo sets in a major way in a variety of themes, including licensed ones - there are a couple different Harry Potter ones just currently, as well as any number of Star Wars ones, and they've done ones for Cars, Toy Story, and Pirates of the Caribbean, just off the top of my head. It certainly seems like Middle-earth is a big enough franchise to support enough of a variety of sets that they could do polybag promos. Most likely they'd tend to be sets featuring main characters, like the ones with Harry Potter in his lab or with his trolley, but they have also done "army-builder" ones, like Star Wars ones featuring battle droids, clone troopers or stormtroopers. I don't think something like a Middle-earth equivalent of one of these is completely out of the question:

It's in Winter Haven, between Orlando and Tampa, in a part of Florida that's abundant with theme parks in general (it's perhaps a 45-minute drive from Walt Disney World). It just opened two months ago. The Pirate miniland is quite cool indeed. I'll try to get some pictures worth posting here the next time I'm down there.

Where have you been? Yes, TLG's new "Superheroes" theme isn't just for the DC Universe, but the Marvel one as well; they announced getting both the DC and Marvel licenses on the same day, back in July. Starting around May of next year, we'll get sets based on the Avengers movie(s) and the classic comic book versions of X-Men and Spider-Man. Confirmed characters include Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Loki, Nick Fury, Wolverine, Magneto, Spider-Man, Doctor Octopus and Deadpool, and I'm sure more will be on the way eventually if they aren't in the launch sets.

Totally, but I guess that's TRU for you. Why's that?

Indeed, someone from TLG said something similar in late 2009 about the continued availabilty of Indiana Jones in 2010, and it's clear now that simply meant the already-released sets would continue to be available for at least a while into 2010, not that new sets would debut in 2010. It's also possible the response here about "castle" continuing in 2012 was referring to The Lord of the Rings without mentioning it by name (since it was a big announcement that hadn't been officially made at the time of her response), which certainly has more than enough overlap with the content of traditional castle themes to justify it (as evidenced by EB's own assignment of the theme to this same subforum dominated by castle discussion). I believe the Joust set will be the final hurrah for Kingdoms (but not for original, non-licensed LEGO Castle themes in general ).

So, TLG has had press releases up for both DC and Marvel, they've shown figures from both licenses at Comic-Con, and new DC sets are out in stores and on Shop at Home. I'm beginning to think there might be something to these rumours...

Perhaps, though TLG itself is always trying to keep a lid on surprises. How long ago was it that we saw the first pix of the DC wave just hitting shelves? Is the time between then and now equal to, greater than, or less than the time between now and the Marvel launch wave?

Checking them out in the shops at LEGOLAND Florida a couple days ago, I noticed theirs didn't include minifigures, whereas the ones I see at Toys 'R' Us do each come with one (an exceedingly plain one, with no printing anywhere but on the face). They must have different "packages" for different markets.

While I suspect you're right about these minifigures selling disproportionately large numbers to AFOLs when compared to LEGO products in general, I still somehow doubt the numbers skew that way heavily enough that TLG is considering AFOLs first and foremost. Moreover, I don't think the idea of them intentionally limiting the numbers of the most-wanted figures makes any sense - how would that help them sell more? If anything, it might help them sell fewer, since if the figures sell disproportionately well to AFOLs rather than kids and AFOLs mainly want army builders and not "individual characters," the three or six army builder figures in a 60 figure box could be expected to go instantly, while the others would tend to sit around since there are disproportionately more of them than needed for the demand. The only way it might sell more or sell them more quickly would be if the army builders were buying all their figures blind in hopes of getting the ones they want scads of, and I doubt many army-building AFOLs are really buying hundreds of random minifigures in order to get a few dozen of the ones they want. I believe most army builders feel the packets or use other methods to cherry-pick, and I'm sure TLG is aware of that. To me, it really makes more sense that TLG is simply still targeting kids, even if we AFOLs love the minifigures. I'm still seeing these things sold in stores mostly to kids, or to parents shopping for their kids, even while I do see a few sold to adults (including myself). And the kids I see going after these don't appear to be principally interested in the army builders; they mostly seem to want individual figures that appeal to whatever their individual tastes are (two days ago at LLFL, my girlfriend and I helped a dad get a snowboarder and a boxer for his son, who wanted those two specific figures). Yes, I know anecdotes don't equal data, but everything I see bears out the idea that it's still traditional LEGO fans (i.e., kids) who get most of these (at least, most of these from Series 3 on ), and that they just aren't into army-building the way so many adults seem to be.

Nice review, Oky, and special thanks in particular for the explanatory material about the reuse of the ornament shell from a couple years ago, and how the structure in the bottom was used then for holding dishes in place. It may seem like a small thing, but that's the kind of info I appreciate. I picked one of these up two days ago at LEGOLAND Florida, where they appeared to still have a lot of each of the three ornament colors (mine was this gold one, naturally, though I very nearly picked up a green one just because it's my favorite color). The stores in the LEGOLAND theme parks sell a lot of the smaller promo sets like polybags and so on for a couple dollars more than regular LEGO Stores, and this was no exception; LLFL has the ornaments for $9.99 rather than $7.99, though if one has a Plus Pass (as I do) it knocks 10% off. If anyone is looking for one of these and doesn't want to shell out more than that on ebay, I suggest calling a LEGOLAND and seeing if they'll ship (or better yet, just go visit the park - it's fun!).

Wow, do I like this theme! I agree with Oky that it looks like a mash-up of Time Twisters, Adventurers and Studios. Hooray! I do disagree with one other point, though... But Pharaohs Quest has its own mummies, out contemporaneously with the Series 3 mummy. If this series did reuse the Minifigures monsters, it'd be the first time any of the minifigures reappeared in their exact form in a "regular" set (as opposed to "extended line" stuff like the calendar). I mean, sure, I don't profess to know everything that TLG's going to do, but to me it doesn't seem like them to want to reuse any of the "CMFs" for a theme, even when they'll fit in perfectly (by "reuse" here, I mean using the figures exactly as they appear in the Minifigures line, with the same exact prints and all; I obviously do expect to see them reuse the same core ideas, such as vampire minifigures, mummy minifigures, etc.). Is that a new ghost?? VERY glad to hear about a Zombies set! I've been hoping they'd do more zombies in the Minifigures line so that I could have a slew of them without using the same one over and over. Like Oky, I too hope they include female zombies.

They are. Thanks for the info.

I saw several of the initial DC Universe sets (everything but the Funhouse and Batcave sets, I think) at the shops at LEGOLAND Florida two days ago, all priced normally (i.e., well below TRU's pricing). Bwaaah? Disney Princesses are out??

Remember, the target market for these is still overwhelmingly made up of kids, not AFOLs, and children are likely to have very different ideas about what minifigures are most desirable. Most kids probably don't have any reasonable hope or expectation of army-building, either; indeed, I suspect the average kid buying these gets only a couple. If you were a ten-year-old getting just a few minifigures out of a given series, would historical army-builders be your first choice? That's the answer I didn't want to hear. Damn the marketing/sales schemers! (semi-sarcastic) I really doubt that's it. TLG has no reason to care whether a given figure is slightly more rare than others (if they really wanted one to be rare, they'd have just one per box, or even one per case or fewer, as is common with other blind-boxed toys, trading cards, etc.; three in a box isn't really "rare" at all). I think they're just marketing their toys to children, rather than AFOLs, and skewing the box mixes accordingly (that is, I think they're trying to balance the overall supply so that it matches the overall demand well, with their predictions of what the demand will be coming from their research into what kids and maybe a few AFOLs want). Heck, this could even be an "early" box, and the proportions might be tweaked a little at some point during the production run, so that "later" boxes might have more Romans and less of something else (as has apparently happened a couple times with previous series). Yes, this is the tip-off - no one would ever have considered AFOLs to be nerds otherwise... (But seriously, that's some very cool and impressive work some of you have done with your statistics. Bravo! )

While some of the other Friends discussion around here (not to mention loads of other threads and posts about all sorts of LEGO themes) might qualify as leaks, daoudbazaar apparently actually found the set in a store and bought it, which would make it completely fair game for discussion, I think.

Yes, the absence of even one official Sallah minifigure still stings. Since you bring up Christopher Lee, I'll go ahead and note that he's also played a role in the Indiana Jones universe, as the Count Ottokar von Czernin in an episode of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles (although it's probably unlikely TLG would do sets from the show even if the theme resumes, and in particular I'm guessing they'd avoid doing real-world historical figures like the Count - but wouldn't it be cool?) Back on topic, I'm guessing the Hobbit / Lord of the Rings theme will run for at least one more wave after the one accompanying the second Hobbit movie (and possibly two or three), and thus waves for: Summer 2012 Late 2012 (new movie wave) Summer 2013 Late 2013 (new movie wave) Summer 2014 Winter 2014 / 2015 ... and possibly a little farther, if it proves popular enough (and certainly if further movies based on more of Tolkien's Middle-earth books are announced soon enough). Could it go on as long as Star Wars? Mm, perhaps. Certainly if more such movies do get made it'll help its chances, but whether it really could run as long as Star Wars has, with as many sets each year (particularly in the sort of variety Star Wars has gotten - UCS sets, minis, promotional minifigures, convention exclusives, etc.) is a big question mark. I think it'll boil down to whether Peter Jackson, Warner Bros. et al. continue to mine Tolkien's books for more movies...

Mm, good point (though I'd personally call it the two characters club; a lot of the characters in the club have had more than just two minifigures - Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Wicket, Indiana Jones, Doctor Octopus, the Joker, and others have all had multiple LEGO incarnations of their own, never mind all the different LEGO versions of all LEGO-represented characters portrayed by a given actor).

I've no specific comments to offer; I just want to note how cool some of these models are.

Eezo and Priscilla are to be commended for their generosity.