DaleDVM

With all of the horse talk, I am surprised noone is talking about the horse barding. I thought when I saw two different designs for the horse barding for the lion knights it was just a prototype thing and they would choose one or the other for final release. The official pics look like the Lion Knights are getting two different types of barding right off the bat. I wish they would have given one of those to the Dragon Knights to make them more of equals. This sets up the sides as the rich vs the robber knights. Rethinking my point in the larger scheme of things... I suppose the crownies were a rich faction as well so a guess a poorer faction is not too bad of an idea.

Castle is a timeless theme that is certainly cliche. However, which theme isn't cliche? In fact... all of LEGO is Cliche. Buildings and vehicles... Vehicles and buildings... That certainly does not make it tired. I think some AFOLs forget that this is a childs toy and most children buying current castle sets were too young to even remember the Knights Kingdom sets from a few short years ago. None of them have any clue about the classic castles I got when I was younger. Every castle release is new and different to children as it is likely their 1st or maybe the 2nd castle they own. I also find it funny calling a toy with unlimited rebuilding possibilities tired? As for the castle theme. I cannot think of anything more suited to build out of Lego bricks than castles? Even my nephews who collect varied themes from Star Wars and Power Miners to Pirates and Bionicle take the pieces from those sets to build of all things... castles. Lets face it kids just love castles and forts! And obviously Love is timeless. When the Fantasy line was released LEGO designed some very new and interesting sets for us to purchase. The Skeleton Prison Carriage was certainly unique looking. The Skeleton Tower with it's skull face drawbridge. The Dwarf Mine with the mine cars and pulley funtions. The Troll Fortress was certainly unique if not perfectly executed. The Battle Wheel while rediculous was completely new. The Troll Ship was the first really large ship in the castle line. The Skeleton Ship Attack gave us a dock and warehouse and a unique ship. The Medieval Market Village was covered in awesomesauce. They released battlepacks for the army builders out there and one for each faction so you could build up whichever faction you enjoyed. The Ultimate Chess Set was an incredible build and design as well. While this "Fantasy" line was new and exciting a lot of AFOLs moaned and groaned that this was all too different and we need to go back to the classics. While there is more of a classic feel to the new "Kingdoms" line, some are already calling it tired and cliche. I feel bad for LEGO it seems they cannot win. IMHO both lines are epic wins. So long live castle... it is the perfect theme for building with bricks.

Thanks to the Hun for posting the pics. I haven't written for quite a while on this thread. It is good to see that my sources are reliable. Back in early Feb I posted that the battlepacks were coming out before the rest of the sets. I still think this is very interesting marketing strategy. The battlepacks look good but I agree with most on the color of the dragons weapons (dark pearl grey would be better) and I hope they get a couple of different torsos before final release. I am totally surprised that the lions do not have a great helm in their pack. Hoping for a horse in these packs is false hope. Although the lack of horses in the castle line does concern me. I just hope they keep putting them in the cheaper sets so I can pick up some at a lower cost. The lack of bows is concerning. Atleast the Fantasy era sets had some bows in the larger sets. I am thankful to TLG that we have the option to get minifigs in the battlepacks. Look at how the price of the dwarves went through the roof on bricklink. It made anyone who bought them regret their decision when the battlepacks came out. Knowing battlepacks are coming out for the new line will keep internet prices in check and that makes more money for the lego group and less for third party sellers. A big plus in my book.

I have said already I really like this new line and now even more. Congrats to TLC. The princess looks really nice now that we can see her dress. The great helms look very good in my opinion but what color is the dragon knights helm exactly? It looks dark bley to me but othrs have been calling it some pearl color? The single slot for the eyes doesn't really bother me. The one green knight photo has a nice fancy and yet generic (factionwise) looking torso. Getting 2 staircases on the back of the prison tower is pretty neat. The King's Castle has a staircase too so minis don't have to magically climb up to the battlements. I like it. I don't think enough is being said about the new 2x2 window piece. It is nice to be able to center a window on a wall that is an even number of studs long. This could dramatically change the way I build depending on the colors that the window comes in. Bley being the most important color to me but tan, black, brown, and white to name a few... would be very useful as well. I am pretty certain these windows will not hold the grate or lattice pieces unless something more is going on behind the piece that I can't see. It also has a small hole in the base. Possibly for a new window interior piece? Why is it that every photo I see makes me have more questions! Has anyone had their hands on one of these pieces yet? My biggest wish with the current line-up would be that the dragon knights get a mounted knight with barding. The lion knights get 2 different sets of horse barding and that makes the dragons look less than the equals of the lions. Perhaps this will be rectified in a future release. Possibly in a jousting set...

I agree with you. When I first saw the pics of the sets a while back, I wasn't quite sure what to think of the brown corbel pieces. I like the thought of showing a little wood as part of the castle construct. The more I look at them the more I am just not sure what to think of them. I definately don't like the idea of having torches right underneath them like next to the jail cell. I would have preferred having braggers or tassels. (which is just a piece of timber sticking through the walls) Some people put them in their MOCs with beautiful effect. I suppose I will have to see this live and in person to make a final judgement on those pieces. They are pretty easily replaced and the overall design is still money in my opinion! On this point I respect your views but I couldn't disagree with you more. Having to build with a piece in a certain way where it forces you to do something is never a better way to do things. It is not like you can't connect these wall pieces at the top and bottom... Now you have options on how to connect the pieces together. The new wall is 4 wide and therefore easier to center for towers. The only thing that was 2 thick about the old wall is that lip sticking off the back which required plates to use properly and sometimes just got in the way no matter what you did. But most importantly, TLG is not using this piece in the way you describe. With the old piece they would make big long walls just using that one panel over and over with a few 1x2 bricks or slopes to connect them. Go and take a look at good old 6080 one of everybody's favorite classic castles. Clickable thumbnail. All of the classic castles not built on raised baseplates (except perhaps Black Monarchs) have the big ugly grey wall syndrome going on. Worse is that those grey walls were made almost entirely of those panels and very few usable bricks. In the upcoming Kingdoms release, TLG put an entire section of dark grey slopes between each one of the new wall pieces. This results in not only a better look but more usable bricks. Also note on the closeup photo of the gatehouse. They use 1x dark grey slopes where both the walls and the gatehouse ends to make it modular. When the wall sections are put together or when the walls are attached to the gatehouse you still have that repeating 2 wide sloping technique. With more than one set, you can make this castle as big as you want and it will all connect seemlessly! An absolutely fantastic design. I can't tell 100% how well this technique is working with the tower sections connected to the walls (the photo is too small) However, the towers look pretty good attached to the walls in the photo.

June for wave one. September for wave number two.

A few people hit it on the head with the demand for the Greek Hoplite. I hope lego understands which figs are going to be in the most demand. Basically any fig you would want multiples of are going to get more valuable. However, going to the extreme some people will want to build armies of hundreds of figs. Those minifigs will be the most expensive by far and will drive the cost down of all of the other figures. The way I see it and this is in no way describing everyones tastes. This has been my experience with the lego community in general. These figs most people will want only one or a few of: Release 1: Crash Test Dummy Scuba Diver Magician Nurse Skateboarder Wrestler Release 2: 70's guy Singer Weightlifter Vampire Skier Lifeguard Ringmaster Witch Pharoah Surfer Mime? These figs some people may want small groups of 5 - 20 lets say. Release 1: Cheerleader Clown Adventurer Indian Ninja Robot Release 2: Mexican Judo Fighter Thief Figs that some collectors will gather over 20 figs up into the many hundreds: Release 1: Forestman Spaceman Zombies Release 2: Greek Hoplite Of all of these figs the only one that not only may be collected in very high numbers but also has never had anything like it released before is the Greek Hoplite. I truly believe this is going to be the most sought after figure of the entire collection and its price on bricklink will start out atleast triple its original cost. I just hope TLG will recognize these factors and put more of the figs people will want multiples of in the box. I can guarantee that any fig people will make armies of will not be difficult to sell and or trade at a moments notice. I will not be surprised if people are stuck with many multiples of those figs in the lower demand group. If you only want those figs I would suggest waiting and grabbing them on bricklink cuz they might be cheap and atleast you know what you are going to get.

The new wall pieces are a huge improvement in my book. I love classic castle stuff and have tons of it, but the old wall pieces were oddly shaped. They also had that goofy lip sticking out of the back side which required plates to flatten out. Also it was an odd number of bricks wide which made it hard to center if used for building a tower with it. All of which made them a bit more difficult to use. This new piece will be easier to build around and hide in MOCs. I also note that with the new wall pieces they put dark grey slopes inbetween each one to break up the big ugly grey wall syndrome. The walls themselves look terrific on the large castle. Actually I might even say the walls look better than any large castle set ever. I do not like the look of the battlements on the towers very much. They just don't seem very protective. They do come with the faceted bricks which I find very useful though and lots of 1x2 slopes and cheese too! The new porticullis looks OK. I am glad you can attach pieces to it easier than the old grates. I agree that the breastplate looks great and has a very useful generic looking piece of printing on it. The great helm looks "great" and the fact that we are getting it in two colors makes me very happy. Plumes in white, red, and dark green! I also like the fact that the castle has red accents. A nice change from the past few years. I wish I could still see the original pictures of the box art. It seems there are plenty of both shields but most of the lion ones seem to come in the large castle set. If they come out with battle packs this will not be an issue anyway. I do like the look of the dragon tower but doesn't it seem silly to have a large gate to what looks like a tiny tower? I guess it could be the gatehouse to a larger castle to come? (or atleast someone can MOC one up) The figures look fantastic and it appears we are getting some nice generic torsos so we can easily modify some of our factions. As was mentioned it will be nice to get weapons in shiny and dark grey as well. Am I the only one to be excited about the 1x2 cheese wedges in dark grey. Those will be great for landscaping mountains.

This is a little speculation. A little birdie told me that in a strange release schedule the battle packs for the new kingdoms guys are going to be released months before the castle sets come out. Like this spring in fact. I found this to be rather remarkable. TLG hasn't released a line in this fashion before in my recollection. However, I could see it working well to wet appetities for the new line over the subsequent months. Also note: with the Prince of Persia sets coming out in April I could see some castle battle packs being purchased to go with the middle eastern sets. Imagine if you will, some friendly European medieval tourists dressed in their finest military garb heading to the middle east for some fun and sun... I cannot confirm this in any way but... This little birdie has industrial strength sources and has always been very accurate in the past. If true I would find this very interesting indeed.

Like Stash2sixx said. I don't know how I missed this topic back in 2008. My first set I got back in 1988. It is still one of my all time favorites. Luckily I didn't start collecting until I was 21, so I was careful and kept all parts, instructions, and boxes in great condition. I only wish the forestmen trees came in brown back then. They would mesh into current constructions a lot better if they did. In 2007 I aquired a 375 in pretty good condition. This is my oldest castle set obviously as it was the first in the "Castle" line.

Great looking building. I love the bland color scheme. Very useful for parts for us castle builders. A shop this small wouldn't need escalators at all so I am glad they included them. Perhaps they sell parachutes on the top floor so you can base jump down to street level?

Obviously a little fantasy is OK. There has been a bit of magic in the theme pretty steady since Majisto came to town. They have to keep the kids interested after all. I wonder when they will be coming out with a large dragon in a castle set. As was said earlier you can't have all of these baby dragons without having a mama around. I hope it is dark green like the babies.

I would suspect that if TLG comes out with a medieval farm set it will be very hush hush like the medieval market village was. It would be a LEGO exclusive so no pictures could get leaked by online stores and such. Lego has become quite adept at keeping the AFOL's on their toes by saving the most wanted items for their exclusives. It also makes sense as these items are wanted more by AFOLs and not geared towards children at all. Hence no need to sell them in mainstream stores. I agree with others that it was a good time to change direction in castle. 2009 did seem rather uninspired. I think it probable that the fantasy elements will be coming back in the future with renewed fervor.

First in general I like the new sets very much. I am going to go into depth on the pieces I see in the sets. I am rather confused by the dragons color scheme. In some photos the dark green dragon almost looks black. The question would be is the color combo for the dragons more of a dark green with gold or yellow like on pictures of the shields which makes me think the color schemes are less good guy and bad guy than it first appears. . Or is it a dark green and black combo? I am getting mixed messages and I guess we will have to wait for final product photos. I hope it is not a combo of all of those colors. the lion knights appear to be getting the metallic silver helms and armor and the dragons are getting bley and black armor and helmets. Obviously this can change but adds to my confusion on the above color concepts. Kings Castle: I see 5 defenders one with a crossbow and 3 attackers also one with a crossbow. That could obviously be easily changed however. Notable parts are a bunch of torches with flames, a lot of red cheese wedge pieces. Possibly some double wide bley cheese wedge pieces on the battlements? the double clip hanging square flags are very nice. the inverse slopes holding up the battlements appear to be brown in color? If I'm not just mistaken this will make for an interesting inclusion of wood into the castle construction. The inclusion of the double convex slope in red is a great as this piece goes for a dollar each on bricklink. Hopefully the horse barding will be new and original. the Armor for the horses head is great. I love that the unicorn horn is removable. I can see a lot of modding possibilities here. That broad brimmed helmet looks almost black but I doubt it really is. If so that would be completely new. The new porticullis looks impressive and appears to have attachment areas so they can be modified. There are also a lot of slopes, arches, windows for us to work with. On a down note it appears a lot of POOPs: walls panels and corner panels are included with this castle. I do note even classic castles have many POOP pieces. Also stickers are a bit of a downer instead of printed panels IMHO. Prison Tower Rescue: Definately a female fig imprisoned. I like the horses silver headgear. The barding looks pretty cool and original on this set. the great helms in different colors and the baby dragons are great. Porticullis included on this one as well. Not a lot of original parts in this one but it includes a lot of dark brown which is very useful. The overall color scheme is interesting on this building. Outpost Attack: Silly dragon soldier attacking all by himself and outnumbered... Fig on top of the tower appears to be an archer. I like the cheese slopes on the wheels gold and dark green should be useful. Don't see much unique here but the figs should be nice. A decent little set. Prison Carriage Rescue: It appears the horse barding for the head comes in 3 colors! Dark bley, silver, and gold. The unicorn type horns appear in silve and gold as well. I like this very much and hope these pieces come out with all of these colors. A nice little set with a good number of figs and a black horse. Knights Showdown: Interesting figures but nothing very noteworthy other than the helms and plumes. The impulse sets have already been touched on by others. the figs are unique and a few extra parts like the scroll and baby dragon. Overall: I didn't note the new weapons that others have noted. all of the swords look sized similar to previously released ones. I also noted that the Dragon knights are outnumbered in about all of the sets. Hopefully we will get battle packs for each individual faction. TLG don't make the mistake you made with Pirates where you put unique figs and also both sides in the same package. It really limits purchasing of multiple copies of the battlepacks. I am looking forward to some new factions for my Kingdom. I'm not sure the lion knights are going to be different enough from the royal knights to not combine them together at some point. we will see when the pics of the actual figures come out. I can't believe that the black and green witch wasn't included in any of the sets. She only came in the big chess set and the advent calendar. Not complaining cuz I have plenty of her but it still surprises me. Hmmm... These sets do have a feeling of classic sets from the 80's and early 90's. They appear more detailed as all of the current sets seem to be compared to the older ones. Like some others I enjoyed the fantasy era sets and even the figs and fantasy elements. I am also a fan of the classic castle era. However, I am worried. I'm not sure if these sets will do as well with kids as the fantasy sets did?! OK you AFOLs you got what you wanted now buy in quantity. I just don't want castle to struggle for sales as it will mean less sets in the future.

Good catch Dillon. It does look like a brown Dwarf helmet. I heard of some sneaking through without getting the copper put on them but I haven't seen a picture of one yet. I wonder how valuable those will be? However if you cvan brasso off the copper and get a lot of brown helmets I guess it won't be too valuable. Nice army Burkey. I can't wait to see them all set up and ready for parade. I like the elephants as well. Thanks for sharing.

The roof is ingenius. a long while ago I was putting those pieces together for a roof but hated the unfinished look of the exposed studs along the ridge of the roof. So I just gave up on the idea. Those simple 1x1 round plates make it look just fine. Kudos to you it turned out fantastic.

Gogobig. I am truly impressed by the custom factions you have included. A lot of sticker work! The color schemes for your several different factions of troll or orc type characters is awesome! the rangers are also fantastically random in appearance. All that changing of torsos and legs and arms is very expensive. I am impressed greatly with what you have done. I would like to do this type of customization but I am not sure I could pull it off on the scale I need. My armies are actually a lot bigger than yours. I am at about 3500 figures in my castle armies. Although I have some custom factions they tend to be small and are drowned out by the masses of stock figures I have. Perhaps one day I can pull something like this off. I do customize my leaders but those are about 1 in 15 of my total figures. I would like to give a very very large thank you to everyone for posting! I love looking at all of the armies out there. Big and small, custom and stock, it is a lot of fun.

I too am excited to hear about new 2010 sets. I understand that earlier posts were opinions and everyone is certainly entitled to have them. However, I could almost vom reading the overt "glorification" of the classic sets. I am curious as to when was the last time you have rebuilt your old classic sets and compared them to the current ones? Mentioning siege engines? Look at the old siege tower and battering ram from the 80's. They are absolutely horrible. The current siege machines are incredibly better. Did I hear that the old sets had interiors? A couple of tudor pieces and a post holding up a roof is not a house by any means. I admit... I thought the classics were awesome too until I pulled them out and rebuilt them. KCS has its flaws, like the gatehouse and the open tower. But even the classics had similar weaknesses. I agree with many others. If KCS had a gatehouse it would have been a great set, in the top 2 or 3 castles ever. Last thing on this point. The dwarf mine, MMV, and the giant chess set are easily 3 of the best sets ever made in the castle lineup. All 3 come from the fantasy era. To TLG: I say don't ever go back to the shapeless, colorless, building techniques of the 80's. Keep giving us great designs like you have been but hopefully fix the little flaws. I also feel that many of us AFOLs are being a bit short sighted about the whole human vs human thing. I do prefer more human factions as well. However, facts are that kids preferred the skeletons vs humans to humans vs humans by 90% to 10%. I was told this by a castle set designer at brickworld 2008. This is why they go with obvious bad guys in the current sets. I will enjoy getting some new human factions very much (the crownies have run their course IMO.) However, If these new sets don't sell well and the castle line dies out for a while it is the AFOLs that I will blame. We are constantly begging for a return to classic castle. I would be fine with a new human faction vs skeles or trolls or whatever lego comes up with. It is more important to me to keep the line selling strong than to get 2 or more new human factions. If the line stops I figure I don't get anything for a few years... I don't think I am going to enjoy the new lion faction. Just way too similar to the past lions and crusaders. (I hope AFOL pleading for classic castle didn't cause a repeat of old heraldry) I hope they look more different than I am imagining right now. I would prefer more generic heraldry like a pair of crossed swords, a tree, a castle, or a mountain on the emblem. And a different color scheme would be great. I would love to see dark grey or silver with a splash of purple. Not a jelly bean amount of purple. A black and silver faction would be great and could look both good and evil. The dragon or snake faction sounds interesting. I atleast like the color combos mentioned. The witch from the big chess set and advent calendar sounds like she is going to get an army to go with her. And maybe a new wizard boyfriend... She seemed woefully out of place with last years lineup. What a great minifig she is. I was surprised she was not used in something more last year. I bet she is included in one of the snake/dragon knights sets. Last but not least... the release of new forestmen types (in the collectable figures) makes you wonder whether they are in the cards in the future?

I tend to build walls with 1x4 bricks and use 1x2's as needed. The construction tends to be much stronger and obviously 100 pieces goes twice as far but usually doesn't cost twice as much.

I actually like the new fantasy figures so I have no complaints. You can all wish as you may. I am pretty certain Fantasy is here to stay. Almost every lego theme now has non-human bad guys. I was told these statistics by a designer at TLG: Children prefer an obvious bad guy faction vs humans. The other option being human vs human action. The result was about 80% for non-human to 10% human vs human with about 10% of kids with no preference. There is no way they are going back to the old days. Fantasy bad guys simply sells better. As long as they keep coming out with new human factions every few years I will take whatever baddies they come up with. If they make quality castles at the same time I will be happy. This is where I disagree with the O.P. I think the new castles are every bit as good as the classic castles.

I truly am having a hard time believing what I am reading on these forums. Here is the truth... mathematically speaking. If you spend from $1 to $24 or between $38 and $49 the new VIP system is better for you. However, from $25 to $37 and anything over $50 you will be losing money all the way to infinity with the new VIP system. The more over $50 you go the worse it gets for us and it doesn't matter where you fall inbetween the $25 amounts of the current stamp cards. For those of you that spend in those very narrow ranges I say kudos to you, you are now a VIP. I also say you don't need a discount at all cuz you spend very little money on lego. I will be losing a lot of money on this new system. I hardly ever spend less than $100.00 at a lego store and have spent over a $1000.00 at one time. When I would purchase large amounts of lego the staff would often give me an extra stamp or two. They would also do this when I was close to another $25 cutoff. This new system is automated and we won't get any extras at all. I do not doubt that TLG is doing this to eliminate the extra stamps the employees would give out to some of the loyal customers. TLG also changed this to obviously make more money. By the way lego accountants can do math too! I don't mean to belittle anyone else who posted. This obviously does not apply to the kids on this forum. Who drives to the mall using a couple of gallons of gas to buy less than $25.00 worth of lego? The gasoline alone is a 10 - 20% markup right off the bat. And that is if you live within 20-40 miles of a lego store. I go about 5-10 times per year and spend like an idiot when I do. It costs me $5 to $10 dollars in gas depending on which store I go to and it makes no sense to spend very little on lego when I get there. Ooh!!! but the whole family can get points. What kept your family from getting stamp cards in the past at lego stores? Lego has not made me feel like a VIP. I will do most of my purchasing during conventions when I get my 20% off. As for the extras we get with the new VIP program we will have to wait and see if any of those pay off. I doubt they will. I do admit, If this includes online purchases that will help a lot of people but certainly not people who live close to lego stores. I don't order online with access to 4 chicagoland stores. The shipping cost is nuts. Now that the facts are out will there be cheers or jeers?

If castle takes a break I will save money and try to get the few sets I don't have yet from long ago. Ebay here I come! Castle is the only theme that I collect. I may buy some PoP sets for the parts but will have to see. It is unlikely I will buy many sets at all over the next couple of years. Why is it exactly that people think the current sets are so badly designed? I think people unfortunately remember how cool they were back when they were younger and therefore were more easily impressed by lego castles. I challenge you to go back and rebuild the old sets. They are incredibly simple builds and lack many of the structural components included on todays creations. I have almost every castle set ever made in my garage right now. I can honestly say when you sit them side by side that King's castle siege is about as good as any of the old sets from the 80's and early 90's. It has its flaws for sure, the open tower and the lack of a proper gatehouse. But then again most of the old castles had those open towers as well. The dwarf mine is an excellent design unlike anything ever released before. Also the current siege towers, catapults, and war machines released from the fantasy line are way way better than the classic versions. I do agree that the figures are an important part of the fantasy line. But then again the figs were important in the past too. It is just that the figures are of better quality now and people really like them. I certainly think that we have enough crownies for... well... forever! If you don't have enough crownies by now then you haven't been buying castle the last 3 years. A new human faction would be fine by me. Elves would even be better. But I doubt we will get them for atleast a couple of years. As far as the poll goes. Unfortunately this line is dying for now. When castle comes back I think they will keep to the fantasy genre because kids like the obvious bad guys instead of having 2 human factions. For the hardcore castle fans who hate fantasy. You will keep getting a smattering of castles and civilian sets as there will always be one human faction to fight the baddies. PoP will keep the number of castle sets to a minimum next year. I've heard of another civilian set but that is about it. Also there is some talk of Harry Potter coming out for another release again. If it happens it will put castle on hiatus for sure until those lines die out again. To anyone who wishes the death of the fantasy castle line...

Hey Adam congratulations. Gosh.. and to think that I knew you back in the day before you made it to the big time. I know you will do a great job on the forums. But somehow I find my faith in you disturbing... Is the castle theme going to lose your talents or are you going to multitask? I am going to assume PAB will be chuck full of light bley pieces for building galaxy class starships. And for us castle builders as well?

This is absolutely awesome. What a great idea! Looks like the dwarves are raking in the cash. From the barriers for the line, to the lift, to the tracks, and carts all I can say is perfectly executed.

KK1 was not all that bad with King Leo and the Bull knights. The minifigs were still cool but the castle sets were beginning to be <insert that tiresome argument>. This problem didn't start with KK1 but with the frightknights a couple of years earlier. KK2 was the worst of both worlds with <insert that tiresome argument> sets and horrible minifigs. This combo made this the most hated of the castle lines as it had very few redeeming qualities. However, the new dark red color that came with vladek's armies and his fortress was a great new step towards the color combos we have today. The 2006 sets in KK2 like battle at the pass were much improved and the late minifigs had some great color combos. The Sir Kentis, Sir Adric, Dracus, and Karzon minifigs had some of the best color and armor combos ever released imho. The black and gold dragon shield that came with the rogue knight battleship that year is one of the best shields ever made. However, these came much too late to save this line. Luckily for us the new darker colors have stayed with lego in the new castle sets and I think TLG has learned a lesson from the KK2 mistake. If this was the direction lego had to take to get where it is today, I am fine with it. I love the fantasy line and the market village is a godsend. Keep up the good work lego.