LRDark

I don't believe I have ever stated that violence is okay as long as they don't show blood. What I said was that there must be a moral or story-driven reason for violence as opposed to Shaun of the Dead's homage to gore flicks. As I said- the action must display what a character is, in essence. One very notable occurrence of aesthetic gore takes place in The Winchester, where Dave is ripped apart by senseless beings while still alive. That was a very graphic depiction, unlike The Joker's magical pencil, or Mola Ram's sacrificial hand. Those two instances were used as a device to both make audience love them as a character, and yet hate them as an individual. You'll always be rooting for Batman and Indiana to prevail. As in Shaun of the Dead, Ed, Di, Dave, Shaun, and Liz are against a mindless mass that brings nothing to the table. It's violence for "shock value" instead of a plot device. The action in Lord of the Rings, Indiana Jones, and Pirates of the Caribbean comes second to the actual story and the character development. The violence and death don't take front row seats; when there is a death, there is always redemption or a sign of understanding. It's not a "fact," it's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. What I'm attempting to do is demonstrate where Lego might be coming from, and that they're view of these licenses might not be the same as yours, or other AFoLs. Just because you don't agree with their choices doesn't make them "hypocritical," "wrong," and it doesn't mean they have "double standards." It doesn't mean that I'm "delusional" for believing them. It simply means that I'm viewing it from Lego's standpoint instead of dipping into my own personal beliefs regarding the appropriateness of these sets. I'm not here to say you or any other opinions are incorrect; I'm just here to state my reasons for believing that TLG is also not incorrect. I remind you to take a look at exactly why these have huge fanbases. Lego is of course here to make money; what business isn't? But I can see a huge difference between making sets for Indiana Jones and making sets for more adult-themed films. Lego's lines have always had a classic quality to them; Robin Hood vs. Richard the Lionheart, Mars Aliens, Speed Racer... The only ones that I can see as being dubious are Prince of Persia and perhaps the Power Miners/Rock Raiders. Their lines have to be based on something, even so far as saying a Theme. There is a line that happens to be based on Indiana Jones, and it's because it was a classic- it was a classic because of what it teaches. I'm also a lover of nearly every license they've had, in addition to Shaun of the Dead; I'm really looking forward to the third installment of the ice-cream trilogy! However, I still maintain that the films they're based on have something to tell. These films have context for their violence, and it isn't in a modern-day setting. The exception are the comic book heroes, and they all stand for justice; what can't be loved about that? Batman is aimed at kids in a Y7 format, and the only things based on the Nolanverse were released 2 years after the initial Batman sets which could've been used to test the waters, as Aanchir has previously stated. Batman is a universally acclaimed hero for all ages, as is Iron Man, Thor, and The Hulk (but not Hawkeye ). Personally, I think it does. Of course you're free to disagree, and as I've said, I'm just here to provide points for Lego's reasoning. It is NOT a geisha to those of us who don't want it to be a geisha. Lego doesn't want it to be a geisha- they clearly say it is a Kimono Girl. Like it or not, you're the ones sexualizing the minifigure, just like others out there. I would love for you to tell every single person who has ever worn a kimono that you think of them as a geisha specializing in prostitution. I could very well say: Pop Star "I LOVE my fans!" "The Pop Star knows how to get attention. Her last three albums went platinum and her private videos are in non-stop rotation on all the internet. She travels the world in limos and private jets, being sure to flash the paparazzi whenever she disembarks! No matter how famous she gets, though, she can always use her time flaunting a baby-bump on her 15-year old body, doing drugs and crashing cars while drunk! " Those are all stereotypes of pop stars. Just because you associate a a kimono with a prostitute does not mean that's its intention. The kimono is a popular Japanese garment for any Japanese individual. It's a traditional garb. Additionally, the powdered face is a traditional makeup which was common on any traditional Japanese woman, as the Japanese were attracted to the white skin. This is why the geisha did it; it wasn't limited to just them.

I think that phrase sums it up beautifully. As you said, we all now about where the line falls. Indeed. Violence serves a number of purposes; I, for one, see a huge difference between, for instance, Lord of the Rings and Shaun of the dead. One is Good vs. Evil, and the other is Good vs. Neutral. Shaun, Ed, and Liz aren't fighting to end tyranny, or to stop an evil power; they're not standing up to anything, they're just trying to survive. Whoops, that reminds me, I forgot to add the religious artifacts onto my list under Indiana Jones I also agree that modern religions should be kept to a minimum to not show a stance for or against a particular belief. I think little additions such as the all-important Ark of the Covenant in 7621 are delightful if done tastefully. It was a story-driven mechanic that purely dealt with history; it was treated as an artifact. Also, while I don't know about structures for today's established religions, the Viking line had elements that were found in the Eddas. The Midgard Serpent, Jormungand, was Loki's son, and that is an old-religion element used, just as several other features. Perhaps something in the same style would be acceptable, as long as it isn't "pushing" anything onto the customers. I don't know what, but that's why I'm no designer. There's always hope!

Thank you for the post and the information regarding Firefly/Serenity! Also, I didn't list the drinking outside of Shaun of the Dead due to none of them actually going against Lego's preference of "Alcohol in a present day situation," as Lord of the Rings is more medieval, Pirates is more, well, piratey, and Firefly is futuristic.

Please don't misinterpret what I say, and assume things about my intentions. I very clearly stated that I don't feel this is the place for it, and I suggested that, should you wish to continue this discussion further, I would join you in a separate thread for a more topical discussion where others may freely voice their opinions without derailing this thread. I don't understand how that can be misunderstood. I have made such a topic, and I invite you to take a gander: LINK

Greetings, all! In both the Winchester thread and the Firefly thread, there have been discussions on what Lego will and will not produce. As this isn't much relevant to the actual model being represented on the Cuusoo site, I have decided to create my own thread regarding the issues. Firstly, I bring us an important announcement from Lego on their Cuusoo page: Brand Standards. In this announcement, they clearly state what they will not produce; they are as follows- Politics and political symbols Religious references including symbols, buildings, or people Sex, drugs, or smoking Alcohol in any present day situation Swearing Death, killing, blood, terrorism, or torture First-person shooter video games Warfare or war vehicles in any situation post-WWII to present Racism, bullying, or cruelty to real life animals It has come up in the aforementioned threads that this seems to contradict Lego's current and past lines, such as, but not limited to, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Lord of the Rings. Starting off our discussion I am replying to another forum member who shall be invited to join in. As I've said previously to you, I didn't feel it was the place to discuss other themes. Here I feel we can do it freely without overtaking the discussion of the actual Firefly model. I do not work for Lego, and my joining had nothing to do with Cuusoo, nor discussing Lego's standards; it was purely happenstance. People are able to have opinions that are shared with those you don't agree with. I agree that Lego has made some mistakes in the past, but I firmly believe that this is far from a mistake or hipocrasy on their part. They've never produced a Geisha. It was a "Kimono Girl." A kimono has nothing to do with sex, drugs, or rock & roll. Your interpretation doesn't match Lego's: "Hello, everyone / I am the Kimono Girl / This is my haiku." "The Kimono Girl has the deepest respect for tradition. She has studied hard to learn exactly the way her traditional kimono robe should be worn, how her traditional makeup must be applied, and even just the right angle for holding her traditional folding fan. The Kimono Girl’s most favorite tradition of all is haiku poetry. She writes haiku verses about everything that she sees and does during the day. She’s gotten so good at it that she can have entire conversations in lines of 5, 7 and 5 syllables!" There is no double standard, and I never said it wasn't okay for you to mention proof; I just suggest that a new topic be made for such discussions, as I didn't see it as appropriate in that particular thread. Now, on to the Licensed, and Cuusoo sets! Personally, I fully agree with Lego's stance 100%. I agree with the lines that have been made, and I agree with the two sets that have been rejected. To refresh some memories, here are the in-question current licenses and the rejects from Cuusoo: The Lord of the Rings (PG-13) Star Wars (PG/PG-13) Indiana Jones (PG/PG-13) Prince of Persia (PG-13) Pirates of the Carribean (PG-13) Shaun of the Dead ® Firefly (PG-13) There has been a plethora of messages questioning Lego's decision on why to license the first five franchises/films, and to deny the last two the same honor. There have been statements that Lego is outright lying that these two are too far away, maturity-wise, from their core audience of 6-11 year olds. There have also been ideas that there is nothing different between all seven franchises, maturity-wise. Let's take a look at what questionable material all of these bring in terms of what Lego doesn't wish to produce: Lord of the Rings Severe violence- x3 Star Wars Mild violence- x5 Severe violence- x1 Profanity- Damn x2, Hell x1 Smoking Indiana Jones Brief sexual content Mild violence x3 Severe violence x1 Profanity- S**t x 3, Ba***rd x3, Hell, Damn, B**ch x4, Smoking Religious Imagery Prince of Persia Brief sexual content Violence Pirates of the Caribbean Brief sexual content x3 Sexual content x1 Violence x3 Profanity- Hell, Ba***rd, Damn x4, A** x1 Smoking As can be seen these all hold some degree of adult content in terms of violence, sex, language, and drugs. The severity of these circumstances is up to the individual viewer. Some would say that they aren't offensive for a variety of reasons; some would say that they are equal to or surpass the following: Firefly Severe sexual content Mild sexual content Sever violence Mild violence Profanity- Hell, S**t Smoking Shaun of the Dead Mild sexual content Severe violence Profanity- C**t x1, F*** x47, S**t x32, Prick x9, A** x2, N****r x5, Jesus x3, C***s***er x4, T**t x1, W**k x3, m*** x2, and ch**k x4 Modern drinking Smoking (Sources for this information include Wikipedia, IMDB, my own interpretations, and my own film collection) With this, it is quite easy to tell why Yatkuu's Winchester project didn't make the cut; Lego doesn't want to be associated with that majestic amount of strong language. Who can blame them? While many of us won't mind talking that way around kids, Lego has a very different stance, I'm sure. Now, tbone_tbl's Firefly project, I can find it a little difficult to see it from Lego's point of view. I won't say that this is definitively their stance, I can provide some support for their decisions. In order to do this, however, we must venture into the realm of what the source material is, as a medium... Join me, shall you? First, let's take a look at the already-produced questionables. What do these have in common with one another that make them such a great addition to the Lego world? First of all and most importantly, these all have a huge fanbase (with perhaps the exception of Prince of Persia); Who hasn't heard of Pirates of the Caribbean, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings, or Star Wars? These are classics in terms of cinematic and literary history. These are precious gems that people are familiar with. They are gems that teach us about worldly things. People have changed because of these works. They have inspired countless individuals. They gave us something that didn't exist. Within these realms lie truths that provide us with moral guidance, and they teach us aspects of humanity that perhaps we haven't considered. There lie within these works the messages of honesty, integrity, bravery, self-reliance, and self-sacrifice. They teach us that we all have the power to accomplish our goals if we apply ourselves. They can teach us so many things that remain unlisted. These are famous and classic works that provide famous and classic messages. Now, as I've admitted, I haven't watched Firefly, nor have I watched Serenity; I haven't heard of them. Perhaps one day they may indeed be classics, but at this current point in time, it isn't. I would like to be enlightened, however, on what this series does provide. I would like examples of these lessons as well from the fans of the series. The work's theme, and what the work can teach us plays a huge role, I imagine, regarding what Lego will and will not produce. It isn't necessarily how much swearing, smoking, violence, or sexuality that a film has because I feel that those can be overlooked if they are a way to tell the story instead of enhancing it. There are, undoubtedly, limits, however. Lego has made it very clear what it doesn't want to be associated with, and I don't think we can honestly hold that against them. The boxes may say 16+, but the actual content is always age appropriate of a child. Now it's time to share your thoughts, should you so choose. What are your views regarding the ethics of these lines?

I'm really looking forward to this one. I love nearly every aspect of the actual building, and it would be nice for my Fright Knights to have a proper castle.

There is so much more than just her being a prostitute that is questionable, which I've previously listed. These situations get stacked on top of each other, and create boundaries. Again, as I've already said, I'm not going to get into a discussion about other themes. This isn't the place for that. You're welcome to make a new thread for it that I can join in, but this is about Firefly Serenity, not Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Indiana Jones, or Harry Potter. I've already discussed this in the Winchester thread, and I'm not doing it here.

But it is a part of the show, or so I've read. Lego has released a message on its Cuusoo site earlier- they don't want that. They are going to start giving potential listings a quick review before being posted on the site now, to combat these problems. People shouldn't get frustrated because their adult-oriented model isn't being produced by a children's company. It very clearly stated that once it hit 10,000 it would get the review, and to that they held. They're obviously adapting, and we shouldn't ask any more than that of them.

I'm willing to bet that they also wouldn't produce sets based on most mainstream tv shows. First of all Firefly is, as has already been pointed out, PG-13. Second of all, I'm really getting tired of the "18+ to Create, 13+ to Vote, and 6-11 to Buy is silly" argument. Perhaps it's time to realize that Lego isn't going to make products that sponsor a show or film that relies heavily on adult (sexual) themes. It's no excuse that the adults are the ones putting up the "adult-themed" projects on Cuusoo; that would be implying adults can't create products for kids, only for themselves. The Lego designers do it all the time, almost like it's their job, in fact. Adults are the ones posting these, and, as adults, they should realize that Lego doesn't want this type of material. The members on Cuusoo are more than capable of presenting ideas, licensed or original, that appeal to both kids and adults alike. Sure, they might want something a little more offensive than what parents want for their children, but it really doesn't matter if that's not what Lego wants to associate with. Simon Pegg can promote whatever he'd like on TV; that's his free will. That doesn't mean Lego has to promote him in return. Lego doesn't control what he does or says.

I really don't appreciate having my trust called "delusional." Don't agree with their reasoning if you want; would you like it if I said that you're "delusionally willing to accept a trusted company is lying to you when they could just as easily tell you the truth?" I've already stated points regarding past licenses in another thread, and I won't be doing it here. Don't call me delusional for having different opinions. Why is it garbage that they won't make something where, as I understand it and according to IMDB, the main character is a prostitute, there are sex scenes, nudity, whore houses, and threats of rape. Had I a child, I wouldn't want them exposed to that. You might want your kids to be, and that's fine, but please understand that there is a moral line that TLG doesn't seem to be willing to cross. Since I'm unable to compare The Lord of the Rings with Firefly, I can't say that it is less than or equal to the other in terms of violence. However, violence isn't the only determining factor. I would rather look at these things in terms of their core audience instead of an AFoL's point of view. I realize that I'm not their target audience, and I evaluate things based on what I feel would be best for their business. Regarding this, I absolutely believe that their evalutation was correct in stating that this project would not be a positive product for the kids. What about this is violating the "Spirit of Cuusoo" to you? It is a privilege given to adults to provide Lego with projects that might have otherwise been overlooked. That is it, in terms of actual "guidelines," as far as I know. It is up to the creators of the projects to understand that Lego has limits on what they can market to kids. It might be more beneficial for Lego to elaborate this on the actual guidelines, but it seems as though it should've been fairly obvious, at least to me. There are a plethora of ideas that haven't been touched on in Lego lines, and this is our chance to make some new things happen. Unfortunately, the only models getting the numbers seem to be aimed at adult themes instead of themes fit for the average child (or at least what parents want for their average child).

I just remember waiting a good while to find out the fate of The Winchester. I hope they continue to be this vigilant with these sorts of decisions.

For me, it's all about the set. As almost strictly a Castle/Fantasy/Pirate collector, and as a completionist, I tend to purchase every set and Collectable Minifigure that falls into that category, regardless of whether it's a Licensed set or not. When the Tolkien line comes out, I'll be sure to get it. The same is true with Zelda, should it happen, or any other Fantastical line should they be produced. I appreciate Star Wars, but I have little interest in the sets. I don't read or watch Harry Potter (aside from the Rifftrax), and yet I love their sets for the Castle and Fantasy elements. I really can't think of any interest I have that would make me purchase a set based around it, other than my main themes. Perhaps a Wild Wild West film license strictly for the steampunk cowboys, but other than that...

I must say, the only thing I'm surprised at here is how quickly they responded to the 10,000 marker; I'm glad that they foresaw it reaching the number in order to limit the suspense though! While I haven't seen the series, IMDB shows a good number of problematic scenarios within the television program, and I completely understand Lego not wanting to associate themselves with it. I don't know how under/overblown the information is, but if it's accurate it certainly seems like a viable reason to not put it into production. Again, it's a wonderful MOC, and I congratulate the creator of their 10,000 supporters! I am hoping that in the light of the latest two reviews, people will understand what it is Lego will and will not produce. These are children's toys after all, and while we may not all agree what is/isn't right for children, it's Lego's decision on where its line is drawn, and not ours. Here's to hoping for favourable reviews for Back to the Future and The Legend of Zelda!

How about if I like it, I should vote for it? There are some really nice ideas that I can't see myself buying that I choose to vote for because the creator did a really swell job presenting it, and there are some that I would buy that I don't vote for. I'm not going to stop because you don't like it, and I don't feel it's dishonest. I price things and number things as if I am a collector of that particular theme, such as the Western Town. I'm not going to buy it, but I certainly want to give it the chance to be reviewed, as I think it's a wonderful concept. If it's something I wouldn't necessarily want to purchase, I put in "1," because I just might buy it for me or someone else one day.

I wouldn't say the entire point of Cuusoo is to create one-shot niche projects. I would say that it is to create projects that Lego wouldn't already come to the conclusion that some large majority of people want, which isn't limited to just small fanbases (compared to Star Wars and Tolkien). Licensed sets are a third of potential listings, along with original sets and new piece elements. While I understand why the licensed sets reach the 10k marker before others, that doesn't mean I can't become bored with it. As I've said, I'm happy for the creators, and I'm happy for the fans; I truly mean that. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't've hit 10k. I'm glad they get the chance to be reviewed. But I still can't help but express my disappointment on the lack of original ideas meeting the mark. I've already voted for the ones that I've liked on Cuusoo, regardless of whether I'd buy the set or not. No matter how good the Firefly MOC is, I still can't get excited for something I care nothing about, just like Eve or Minecraft. To me, they're not classics like Back to the Future or Zelda. Perhaps one day they will be, and perhaps some already are viewed that way, but at the moment, I don't see them as such. To me, it's just another My Little Pony MOC that reached 10k, without the annoying fanbase. I can still announce my disinterest.

I think the one she came with in the set is your best bet. It's a little longer than her hair in the film it seems, but at the moment, I can't find anything else that appears to be more accurate.

I, too, am only planning on purchasing the Castle. I do really appreciate the sets, and I do wish I could own them all; unfortunately, nothing else is compelling enough for me to want to spend money on it. I was originally planning on buying multiples of the Mummy set for the horse and the lady, but the images provided me with an excellent visual of her torso, which I was hoping would be less modern. Alas, perhaps I'll pick up some of the swamp creatures later.

Ohh, hey, another niche project that I'm not going to get. It's a really nice MOC, and I'm happy for the fans if Lego does decide to produce this, but, like with the others aside from Zelda, I'm not excited about it in the slightest. Like plenty of others have previously stated, I'm bored of licensed sets from Cuusoo. I certainly can't blame the fans for the support, and I certainly can't blame Cuusoo, but man would it be nice to see an original idea get through...

Honestly, I think it's in their best interest to keep a solitary Castle/Fantasy/Medieval line on sale. Many people are excited for this upcoming line, and to give them too many options to choose from, they might feel shafted; I know I would. I only have so much disposable income to use on Lego, and if they started releasing two lines that I wanted to buy in multiples, I would have to make a very tough decision between the two. As much as I would love to see a return to classic factions, I understand that the Tolkien line is a huge deal to a vast number of people; with the upcoming films in the next two years, this might be the only chance for this to be a viable line, and I want that opportunity for myself and the other fans. Lego knows that AFoLs have been clamoring for this theme for years. After this theme has lost its steam, they can and will undoubtedly go back to unlicensed castle/historical sets. Also, while yes, Alien Conquest is sold alongside Star Wars, Star Wars is now an "evergreen" theme, at the very least until the license is up in 2022. It will have a span of 23 years. When Star Wars first came out in 1999, it actually wasn't sold alongside any other large Space themes, according to my sources. During that year, the Space set's largest count was 23 pieces, and the entirety of the line consisted of re-introduced factions and re-numbered sets. Space didn't come around again for another 2 years when Life on Mars was introduced, and then discontinued, in 2001. This year, not only is the Tolkien line coming out, but the Disney Princess theme, the Vampire Castle, the Kingdom's Joust, the Castle-themed Heroica, and the Ninjago theme is still going, despite it being and "Action" theme on Eurobricks, took inspiration from classic Ninjas that took over Castle from 1998-2000. We have a good number of Castle/Historic-themed sets and lines this year, despite some of them not being either traditional or minifig-scale.

Now I can understand disliking Tolkien's writing, as he was a very long-winded fellow. Personally, I love his writing, but to each their own. However, I don't believe in the slightest that these are overhyped, nor that they are overpriced. Sure, there is a whole lot of talk going around about this line, and it should come as no surprise. AFoLs have been begging for this line for years now, and the sets have just about everything expected from a first-wave LotR Lego line; it seems to be only missing Saruman. The amount of attention it is receiving from adults shouldn't be shocking in the slightest; it is a classic toy for a classic novel. The point about being overpriced is also rather odd, unless Australia has a sever increase in price in relation to past castle lines. Gandalf Arrives comes with the largest price per piece ratio I believe (using US pricing as that's what I know), at roughly .156, which is only a sliver worse than previous sets. All the others seem to be average to above average, at .103 for the Mines, .116 for Weathertop, .109 for the Forge, .116 for the Army, .088 for Shelob, and .095 for Helm's Deep. Going by .100 as the base, as that seems to be average with previous sets, these measure up completely in regards to their pricing, especially considering that they are a licensed product, which tend to be more pricey; these, however, are not. They may not be cheap, but that does not necessarily translate to them being overpriced.

Lately I've been making a larger and more detailed version of the yellow castle in LDD. I must say, it is coming quite well, although it would probably be too massive and boring for it to be an honest TLG set. I would like to see how they would remake the classic castle builds, especially if it would reintroduce that nice, classic visor piece.

I'm quite looking forward to these LotR sets (and eventually The Hobbit sets) so that I may further expand my existing castle world. More dwarves for my dwarf faction, more orcs, elves and humans. I still plan on keeping the sets 100% complete, and to me, LotR is absolutely a Castle theme, so there will be no need to change the context of why the sets are incorporated into my current world. Instead, my other factions will be "unmentioned areas" within Middle Earth.

I don't know how I feel about this. If it gets made, I'll buy it, but I won't necessarily be happy about it...

There would be one heck of a price attached to that! I think the shopping mall idea would have the greatest strength in being another line of modular buildings, with having each individual store as a separate set with the same structural integrity of the current modular buildings. Something along the lines of the original Harry Potter castle sets, yet with more detail.

The "Golden Rule" essentially being "Treat others the way in which you would like to be treated," I presume? Well, I don't want people to leave me something if they get to it first while still possessing the means and desire to purchase it just to feel like they're not being "greedy." Ergo, I will do the same.