Tohst

Is Icarax a Titan? If he is one of the $15 sets like Nocturn, I think he looks great. Just seems a little sparse for a Titan. -Tohst

So help me, I like it. Why? Well, it doesn't have the unfinished feel that I didn't like from the other MM sets. It has a stupid alien but at least didn't waste bricks on a ship for it. It has a cockpit that a mini-fig actually fits in without lying down. It looks like a little exploration vehicle. Am I in love with it? no. Kinda a sad little version of Mobile Tracking Station. But I do think its a step in the right direction. -Tohst

In the Master of Bionicle 2 game, Greg F implied that fast food companys don't want promos with pieces so kids can open and immediately play. Now to me, building is playing, so I don't understand. But since the last few promotions were non-building lego I don't think he was just making that up. I mean, even the sports 'mini-figures' weren't actually mini-figures. I bet the promotion is cruddy action figures that may have a few technic sized holes. -Tohst

I agree that a skellie fortress is probably not in the cards but I definately think we are getting a big evil fortress this year. It follows the basic pattern Lego seems to be falling into with alternating good and evil big sets. I think if KKII hadn't been fading out by that last year we would have gotten a big new good castle instead of a medium neutral/goodish Mistland Tower. My guess is 'Troll King's Lair' with Trolls, a giant troll, a dragon because they love to put dragon's in big sets', and a small siege thingy held by 2 dwarves outside. but I will say this. The troll/dwarf line took me completely by surprise so maybe they have something just as surprising scheduled for the second half of the year. I extrapolate sets that are coming like I play the stock market by looking at past performance and trending forward. And I lose money in the stock market. -Tohst

Last year I seem to recall the endcap sets cycling through quickly. Maybe not this quickly but then again, these two sets are pretty bad. What is potentially interesting to me is what this might mean for next year's black friday set. As I said in the black friday thread, I believe next years set would be the Mobile Devastator from Exo-Force. But if Target just got burned on an exclusive that sold as poorly as the Combat Crawler X2 seems to be selling around here, we have a much better chance at an ISD. oh well, as usual, I'm reading too much into things and Tangenting. -Tohst

Hey guys, No idea if its chain-wide or not but two of the four exclusive endcap sets are on sale at my local target here in the Chicago exurbs. The exo-force Combat Crawler X2 and the Racers set I don't know the name of that are usually $50 are currently $30. No idea how long it will last either. Sadly, Dwarf's Mining and the Tie Crawler were still full price. -Tohst

You're preaching to the choir here. I think the toys are decidedly fainthearted in thier callback approach. Others have taken the opinion that we should be happen they care about us at all because the core audience doesn't know or care about 2001 anyway. And thats not just people on this board but Greg F. saying things like that. As such, this ad, distributed so far to a very small group of fans in a magazine that is just an advirtisement, either says that not every at Lego feels that way or just that they recognize there is a smaller group that this other epic-centered approach would work for. -Tohst

So, in the new Lego Magazine there is a multi-page foldout visual retrospective of Bionicle up to this point ending with a preview image of the phantoka toka. Not only is it pretty awesome but there a lot of focus on 2001 and the original Toa. It seems someone at Lego has the same thoughts I do about if you're harkening back to the beginning for a big end you need to really accentuate the beginning and the epic feel of the whole story. I feel ads like this are a great callout to long time fans and far from alienating new fans, get them interested in finding old books and sets. -Tohst

I just want a tauntaun. I've seen some good brick-built ones but nothing that looks as good as a moulded one would. Thats it. -Tohst

But the whole story was finding the Toa to save everyone! If the purpose was to show the Matoran as the heroes it was only successful in the Boxor set because otherwise the Matoran scampered around trying to get the Toa to save them. I think it was a good introduction to these mysterious Toa but a horrible way to try to make Matoran the heroes. I don't know how well you remember 2001 but I can tell you this. The Toa were everywhere. That Matoran (Tahungu(?) were a McDonalds Happy Meal exclusive. The Turaga had horrible distribution, at least at first. The first picture of Bionicle many of us saw was from that year's catalog and it was Toa focused. That picture of Onua with the claws and the mask busting out at you. The Matoran weren't even in the catalog. So. the focus was very much on the Toa. To draw a parallel, thats why the Tick has his name on the show and the comic book and not Authur. Seriously, they are trying to say that the sets you could only get as a fast food promotion were the main focus? Now, in 2008, initial images do show a larger focus on the Matoran. They attach to the Toa and the Phantoka-toka and fight along with them. The come with new masks instead of just recylced pieces. If the story line pushes these Matoran into the limelight instead of making them bit players designed to set up the scenes for the Toa and they still sell bad it would be excellent evidence that I was and am wrong. But there is a lot of wiggle room there for me to make excuses. X-D And this is why I said before you have insight into how the Lego Group thinks. You agree with them, they agree with you. Its a good thing for you because it means you'll usually be happy with their decisions. It is a good thing for this board becauseyou can act as an oracle. But until I have the money and a time machine to found a building block company with a 75 year history and run it the way I want, all I can do is argue from my opinion and observations and know that your insight matches how the Bionicle team actually thinks. Since they don't agree with me, they won't make the choices to see if my way is better. They should. But thats just another point where they disagree with me. ;-) Well, yes. At this point they have to retain the moniker Toa. They have narrowly defined what a Toa is and they are stuck with that. And they are stuck with the one transformation and out route that they have used 3 times now. In terms of the contest and where we are, your responses make the most sense and your win was well deserved. Yeah that was awesome -Tohst

There was so much hate it made the Baby Timmy cry. I think the biggest issue most people had was it was called Technic. Technic was supposed to be Expert Builder sets and it felt like Lego threw a gear or two in and said 'ADVANCED!' I think the second biggest issue most people had were the fact these weren't building sets. These were action figures. And until that first year of Bionicle, not very good action figures. In the case of RoboRiders, very very bad action figures. So yeah, builders hated Bionicle. It was seen as the death of Lego. And truthfully, with all the juniorization going on at the time and Lego telling us kids don't like to actually build there was a concern that more complex building sets would never be back. Even in Mindstorms the emphasis was on the robotic programming. And in Bionicle, the more complex Rahi sets didn't sell like the action-figures (and yes, Visorak-Kal, I'm replying to you next ;-) ). Now, its turned out that good builders can use Bionicle pieces and more complex sets have appeared outside of Bionicle. But Bionicle is still mainly an action-figure line. -Tohst

Tohst: --------ad hoc quotes for VK! Furthermore, the Matoran are not the main heroes because they don't sell. Making them the main heroes would end BIONICLE fast. Also, people always complain about constant transformation; there was just a topic on BZP saying that there are too many transformations. Now you say you would prefer that the originals be constantly transformed? You know how many fans that agree with a lot of what you say would hate you for that? ------------- Or is it Matoran don't sell because they aren't the heroes? The entire structure is currently set up to push Toa. Thats also why in a Spider man line, there will be 37 versions of SpiderMan to each Mary Jane figure. And I didn't say Matoran would be the only heroes. Its the difference between the Lone Ranger (or 3 amigos) showing a town how to fight back and Superman flying in and saving the day. And there is a difference between 'constant transformations' and upgrading based on need and ability. Its the difference between a dues es machina (or course, is it really this if the story structure is consistantly dependant on it?) transforming our heroes to be able to function underwater and them making modifications to go underwater because thats where there journey leads. ====ad hoc quotes of a different type You seem to think that the Empire Strikes Back had better story than Episode I and Return of the Jedi. Personally, Return of the Jedi remains my favorite STAR WARS. Also, you are referring to movies. You have to remember that box office sellings are sold to people who have not yet seen the movie. Therefore, it is not an accurate judgement of story equating to sales. ======= Heck yeah, Empire Strikes Back was a better tory than RotJ. And blew away Episode 1. In terms of story structure, the freedom of knowing there was a third movie coming as well as not having to introduce every character (not to mention dialogue not written by Lucas) lent to a script that actually had depth. Plus AT-ATs for the win! And you kid yourself if you think selling a movie is different than selling toys. In movies, you have trailers that give away big plot points, you have reviews, and you have word of mouth which is what drives blockbusters that actually survive past the first week. You show me a movie that loses 75% of its audience between weeks 1 and 2 and I'll show you a bad movie. And thats not even getting into sequels where people go to see the movie precisely because they have seen it before. Toys are the same. Sure you see the pictures on the box (the preview) but you only get to open it up and play with it after buying it (your ticket) and you only buy the rest of the series after you're done with that one (repeat viewers and DVD buys). Maybe the difference in how we view the story/sets is reflected in our favorite star wars movie. There are those that recognize the greatness of Empire and those that love ewoks >:-) Well, they always have to twist the story to fit the sets as the sets are the drivers. However, I still believe that decisions were made early on, especially in terms of transformations, that hamper Greg F.'s ability to deviate from the little rut he has carved out for himself. The next question becomes could he bust out of the rut or are story constraints coming from corporate as well telling him to be risk adverse? If he even wanted to could he expand on the definition of 'Toa' to include other champions outside of the mask-wearing elemental power using ex-Matoran? Or is it, hey, This concept of Toa has worked so far and when we tried changing them a bit more (Hordika Hordika Hordika) sales dropped and people complained so stick with the tried and true toa template (say that ten times fast). -Toa Tohst of Toledo. Toa of Tomatoes

Ohh, that would be a great set next year. Sadly, I don't think it will happen unless there are new aqua-raider sets to complement it. -Tohst

I love this topic. Such good flame war material. Especially starting out with the word 'best' which is sooo sooo subjective. I see a lot of the criticism of the ongoing direction of Bionicle as the 'thats not how I would do it variety.' And you know what. Thats perfectly valid! And to a point, I'm right there with them. 2001 introduced us to a world filled with mystery, mysticism, and Bio-Mechanical (non-robot) beings. Yes, there is a lot of nostalgia towards that but hey, it was good and interesting. Since that time there have been a lot of twists and turns and the focus seems to have changed from these heroes mystical elemental powers to the 'weapon of the week' (well, weapon of the year). which personally I find less interesting. Would I have done it different? Yes. The whole discovering the greater world and backstory around them angle was great. But, I would've made the Matoran heroes in their own right. As the larger story opened up the Toa are outclassed. Big fish in the small Mata Nui pond. But Matoran, being the chosen creatures in this universe, are blessed with imagination and the ability to reverse engineer things. Instead of the power ups of each set of toa being fairly random, they are a result of Matoran ingenuity. The Toa find a vat of energized protodermis. The Matoran realize they can use it to enhance the Toa. But at what cost. You don't need to come up with a new team or a convoluted upgrade path. Its built into a story and emphasizes Lego values of creativity and engineering. As well as making Matoran heroes in their own right. And adding a greater degree of peril if these ad-hoc upgrades go wrong (Hordika anyone?). Ravi could be modified (like the current Crawler) but more so because they were originally created with the interfaces needed rather than anyone having tech advanced to that level. In my scenarios the tubes wouldn't be hi-tech gills, they would be ad-hoc gills because the Toa know they need to go underwater. And really, gills are pretty fascinating structures. There isn't anything simple about them. Real life biodiversity blows away anything in Bionicle. Now, the nice thing is, these are toys with a storyline that continues to come up with twists and turns. I can take the toys I want and the story elements I want and run my own way. And if you see how my posts turn out, you know tangents are my friends. Does that mean I wouldn't rather have the official story be different than what it turned out to be? No, I would enjoy one with the flavor of 2001 better. Just as I would enjoy the new Toa to have more call-backs to the originals. Finally, do higher sales mean a 'better' story? No. Return of the Jedi did better at the box office than Empire Strikes Back. Or for you youngins 'Episode 1' blew the original trilogy away. But higher sales does mean a continuation of the story and toys, which I think we all agree is a good thing. I can't wait until the end of this 'book' and the restart that is being talked about. I think this current incarnation may have hit a rut based on early decisions and would love to see them take this same universe down a different path. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy and complain in roughtly equal parts. -Tohst -who was way too lazy to include all the quotes he wanted to.

I would gladly spend the next fifteen years enjoying Lego to win an argument. Can I have 2 million dollars in 2025? -Tohst

Since Visork-Kal and I disagree a lot ;-), I felt I should congratulate him on his win of the Master of Bionicle 2 contest. He overcame a large field of competitors including some of the most rabid Bionicle fans you'll find this side of Denmark. In terms of what it means for -this- forum. I think we can safely say he can give us a lot of insight into what the Lego Group, Bionicle, and Greg F. himself are thinking and acting upon. So, the rest of us should shower him with praise and going forward I will know that when I disagree with him, I disagree with Lego itself (which I mostly knew already) Congrats! -Tohst

And even more annoying is all the weapons that come in one color....so bored with 'protodermis' grey. -Tohst

I'm with you, but instead of 2 teams, how about a wacky racers approach with multiple teams. That way you get the current pieces in a multitude of colors instead of just 2. I mean how many lime green diamond shaped hinged wing does one need? It becomes a little more hit and miss in terms of design. I mean, instead of having one alien design with some variations like the current set, you're asking the team to come up with 5 - 7 new ideas every year. And I'm sure some of them will be stinkers but the different styles might appeal to different people. Like the current set of MM has pros of a some decent pieces but the cons of skeletal design and really bad cockpits (in my not so humble opinion and thats not bringing up the aliens) a more diverse selection might include sets with less useful pieces but maybe a better cockpit or great pieces and horrible colors. I mean if you're worried about a rehash of the jelly bean knights, we have how many years of color combinations to pull from. Year 1: Small set: Classic space, light grey and yellow trans cockpit - Space Guide. Small shuttle that acts as a guide to other factions Slightly Larger: Spryius, black and red with trans blue cockpit - Cosmic Runner. High-Speed recon craft Medium: Insectoids - dark grey with trans grean cockpit - Defense Post. Mobile surveying team that 'transforms' from bulky looking ship to little fort area Large: - New Faction - Some sort of space pirate to cheat and steal from the other groups and be held in check by X-tra large: Space police 1 - black with trans-blue, Police HQ...maybe if we do one in space they won't need one in town for a couple of years. Large store exclusive: Blacktron 1 ;-) The realities of manufacturing probably precludes doing something like this but I can dream, right? -Tohst....oh, and those two sets excite me not at all. I'll be okay if MM 'pulls a viking' as people here are calling it. Of course, Vikings didn't leave, they just got shorter and moved to Castle proper. And where are the Aqua Raiders last two sets?

I don't have anything solid but a good indicator in the past is if Target stores start getting an older large set without having 'normal' shelf spacing for it. This year I've noticed the targets around me getting copies of 7894 Airport, currently at $80. The stock is being put on a higher shelf and not displayed like the other large sets. To me, not the most exciting possibility but maybe worth it if it goes 50% off. My guess for next year is the mini-fig star destroyer and the year after that probably the exo-force mobile devastator (I would wish for the MTT). Remember these predicitions so you can shower me with praise when it all comes true. ;-) And I'm sure you know, Target does do price corrections if you buy something and the next week it is on sale. I'm not sure what the official policy is in terms of time limits but if you go buy it earlier in the week, you -should- be able to bring your reciept in and get the discount on that Thursday. I don't know if thats considered a dirty trick or not but Target when it opens that day is scary so I think of it as a safey tip :-D -Tohst

I thought Mondo was the twin brother of Lando. -Tohst, Seriously I wouldn't put it past them.

My Avatar is now a scary ghost! -Tohst

I don't think his points are invalid. Just subject to interpretation. That his points mirror what Greg F. seems to be saying make them no more or less valid. I've said it before. Greg is in a tough spot. Despite what he personally believes he has to put the best face on whatever the final Lego decision is. And part of why I put this clairfication is because of how Greg seems to say people who disagree with them are flat out wrong, not that they have a different opinion or interpretation. Lego has made mistakes in the past and most assuredly have done things that may not be mistakes but didn't optimize market share. That they focus group and but industry experts on the job doesn't mean they are infallible. Microsoft's Bob, IBM's OS/2 Warp, Apple's iPhone price cut, Lego's Galidor, Lego's grey color change. I could go on but I'm misting up here. Yeah, but Star Wars is the zombie property. Its risen from the grave so many times it is the exception to most everything. Probably from me. It was one of the things I feel makes Kopaka Kopaka like your list. And yeah, the original masks are so much better than the Nuva melted versions. I do like the new Toa. I just agree with you that as the original Toa redone, they are disappointing. What makes me really sad is Kopaka's original mask is on the small side to look good on the new larger Toa which makes it hard to even MOC without him coming out a pinhead. -Tohst

I wasn't going to reply because I think a lot of disagreement is personal preference (also why I am not joining the Master of Bionicle 2 game) but this one I just can't let slide. ;-) Kopaka's mask doesn't need to be completely round. But you can't just throw on an eyepiece and say 'Look its Kopaka'. That ship sailed with Toa Metru Nuju, another Toa of Ice with an eyepiece on his mask. Oh, and his mask was much more square. So, when I see a square mask with an eyepiece, it doesn't scream Kopaka. When I see a toa without a sword and shield it doesn't scream Kopaka. When I see a white and grey Toa, it can be almost every Ice Toa since Mata Nui was in diapers. So, this guy looks like Nuju who was on the shelves even more recently than Kopaka. And Nuju was the bird talking freak, right? -Tohst

Aha. I disagree with you all over the place. I disagree with your interpretation of what Greg is saying. I disagree with your thoughts on the designers as well as what people are saying about the designers. I disagree with your conclusions. But I do think you have some good points and I appreciate your thoughts. I even appreciate our disagreement. Oh, and I agree that some of this is my personal taste on what I, personally, expect out of, for example 'Kopaka'. But its definately in my best interests as a consumer to be loud and direct about what I like and what I believe. Which you may or may not agree with. ;-) -Tohst

Thanks VK for posting that. Greg I find to be an interesting character. He seems pretty brittle for someone being the customer facing personna of the Lego group for Bionicle. But he is in a tough position where he is going to be the first line of complaints (and praise...the BZPower people for the most part have him up on a pedistal and thow rose petals at him) and having to be creative within the constraints of what the set designers throw at him. But I have to disagree with him on a few things. Yes, they are in the business to sell product. Yes, many of the kids don't even remember the first batch of Bionicle. But its not much of a favor to us old folks to bring back the mata characters if all it is to them is a name. I agree that Pohatu and Lewa do harken back in the mask area but not Kopaka. Would a rounder mask that looked like his original and not his Metru replacement's mask really focus test worse? Would it really have hurt them to keep the overall new designs the same but add the things that stood out in the original releases? Kopaka's sword and shield don't playtest well? Yes, the new kids today don't know these characters. But don't you use that as part of the marketing? The Original TOA are back to finish what they started! New kids buy for the body design and bazooka shooter. Old people like me who are going to buy everything anyway feel like a real effort was made. And maybe, just maybe, some kids that gave up on Bionicle a few years back buy one or two more sets because their favorite character is updated and -recognizible-. See what I did there? That last argument? I'm not asking Lego to do me any favors. I don't buy their toys as a favor to them. I buy them because I like them and they sell them to make money. Well, basically, but thats what it boils down to. But that last argument is how they could've made more money. And maybe they thought about that but if so it doesn't seem to come through in Greg's message. A lot of time his messages seem to reduce to 'Be happy with what we're giving you. We always know better than you' and this one comes off the same way. And I have one response to that: 'Galidor' -Tohst