Loki
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Everything posted by Loki
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A lot of those aren't really references, though. Most of those are plot elements that held integral points to exist in the old story -- visorak make visorak webbing, where's the visorak that webbed up a village? Why are there visorak there? Are they the same as the old canon, or their new iteration? Then with the discs, we don't really know if discs will exist in this new series or not (masks might be made differently -- MOCr is, apparently, solid gold and magic if I'm remembering correctly?). A lot of masks were generally used as plot points and some of the later powers were sort of abstract (like Jaller's great mask)... though, either way, I figure some old masks and abilities will return -- likely the less abstract ones (when, I dunno). But like, an amnesiac dark hunter isn't so much a reference as it would be... kind of a major thing to introduce? Like, that's a whole new civilization you're putting back into the world. Referencing Dark Hunters would likely go more along the lines of old myths, or legends, about beings who did what they did versus having one wash up out of the blue one day. References are like, little homages to the original story that fit within the new story without causing conflicts. A lot of those suggestions aren't really references and seem a lot more like story points, like development to the world itself, which I feel the new story should do on its own so we don't fall into the same situations, world, and story as the one we were already told.
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... So? I don't understand what you point is, unless you're trying to invalidate my statement with preferences I had with the story direction... which I can criticize all day if I felt like it, anyhow. My biggest point isn't that I loved 2001 more, though I liked that setting the most (not the... words?), but it's that Lego seems to want to recapture the atmosphere Bionicle had at the beginning, not the latter years. If they wanted to capture the latter years they may as well do a continuation. I'm not against things being referenced, but I am against things being forcefully referenced as it'll show in the story and ultimately distract and detract from whatever they were trying to do.
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Simplyfing something over complicated and full of unnecessary jargon is fine, especially since this is also to appeal to a young audience who likely would appreciate that simplification as they get into the story and start to understand it all. Those who want an over-complex, over-thought, over-extended version can look at the original line as that's what it was.
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Anything? Like what? What could they reference past the initial start of the series, into the latter parts, that would make sense? The Metru-Nui characters were all rather integral to that plotline, so I'm doubting we'd see a Toa Vakama pop up from the get go. Maybe they could use the name "Morbuzakh" to not be a murderous plant, or something? But that's the only thing I can really imagine they could reuse without forcing it. Rahi rampaging, etc... were not written as dark, gritty encounters where we read along as matoran are stabbed and killed on the pages. They weren't dark gods from an analogy of Hell come to do whatever, they weren't bloodthirsty warlords who held six armies that trampled upon whatever they pleased, there wasn't such a focus on bloodshed, on cruelty and on sticking as many dark themes as they could in the early years. Voya-Nui and beyond are pretty far removed from Mata-Nui (even before then, really) not to mention how the entire genre of the story changed to more sci-fi because of one setting change. I can't think of many stories that aren't without conflict, but darkness and edginess and grittiness doesn't make a good story. It makes a terribly contrived, trite story that's been done to death already and exists purely for shock value and has little content and character.
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So, are you saying you want all the convoluted plots to be referenced, the characters that sat so far removed from the original direction Lego's trying to recapture with the new line to come back into this new story, or something? Since it seems more like Lego's rebooting what they had, which means starting over, which means going back to the beginning -- 2001 -- Six Toa Mata, island, with the unique tribal/mystic atmosphere they had in the early years (the stuff way later, or after this arch, wouldn't be seen yet?). I can't imagine them starting off in Metru-Nui with everything slowly devolving into unimaginative and uninspired science fiction, with dangerous islands, dangerous inhabitants, dangerous heroes, dangerous everything coming into the forefront. Since... yeah, I mean, for knowing nothing about the story aside from the six heroes and some villains... what more could you want out of that, right now? They all have their old names, old elements (besides for, perhaps, Lewa if the Jungle thing turns out accurate), some have tools that reference their old tools (Nuva or Mata) and their masks are derivative of the old masks in some ways (and more so in some than others). There's a lot of iconography that's referencing the old story.
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The Pakari looks... really gross, in my opinion. Really wide, really bulky, and I'm just not much of a fan of it. Then again, Onua's sort of a let down for me in general since they did away with his claws, which I will always miss. (The gold also seems kind of... weird, IMO they shoulda either gone with just the silver or just the gold and not try to shoehorn both into the same scheme).
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I'm wary of fully believing an unofficial source with regards to the story that's planned. It'd be weird for Lego to continue the old story, considering some of the major complaints new fans had with the old story (too large, too convoluted, too hard to follow, etc...) and to start off already in that pitfall would lead me to believe Bionicle wouldn't be back for all that long. 'Course, it can still be a reboot even with that information although post-apocalyptic settings are getting kinda old for me at this point. Either way, I'd rather wait for a more official source.
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I can, kinda, see where some resemblance is with the mask... but it's hard to see and it's hidden by all the stylistic changes they made, to the point where it doesn't really evoke the feeling of the original. I guess, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter to Lego whether or not the mask does capture an iconic resemblance to the old versions, since this line is being tailored to a new audience from what I understand (so the new audience probably won't care and, like you said, the mask looks fine as a mask). It kinda saddens me since I was sort of hoping to see a trans-blue mask again (I really liked that about the original Kaukau), especially with the old visor and breather thing the original mask had. Her Nuva mask still makes me think of a pig's face for some reason >.>; (Her mistika mask is just so far removed) On the flip side, Gali seems like one of the sets that has more of her elemental color scheme in it, which I do like. Pohatu is sort of letting me down with the sheer amount of silver he has. Odds are I'll likely still pick up Gali on the basis that Gali was the first set I ever bought, though maybe one of the other gold masks would look better or something (no idea which one, though).
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I'm not a huge fan of all the unnecessary little details a lot of the masks seem to have, especially the Kaukau. Like, all the ridges, indentations, little add ons here and there -- I actually preferred the simpler, smoother styles of the actual 2001 masks. These masks sort of make me think of... like, a cross between the 2001 masks and the Phantoka/Mistika ones with how they're stylized. Most of my disappointment, mask-wise, is in the new Miru and the new Kaukau, though. Kopaka's looks pretty nice, and I do like Pohatu's (although I'm going to miss his focus on kicking things), and I haven't seen Onua's yet so I can't say anything on that one. Kinda hoping that the new wave, one of them, brings back the idea of having Rahi as sets to some degree. Kinda missed that when it was done once and it wasn't really returned to. The level of silver in a few of them also puts me on the "eh" side, would've loved to see the chest pieces as their elemental coloration.
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Favorite Bionicle (or any constraction figure) Titan?
Loki replied to TheGreatSpirit's topic in LEGO Action Figures
Axxon and his glorious, over sized, over exaggerated hands. I regret not buying him and taking a lot of pictures of super hands doing super hand things. -
Would you like to see Castle Action Figures again
Loki replied to ShadowWolfHount's topic in LEGO Action Figures
while i liked them a bit when they were out, the system sets that became more and more popular featuring those characters were nicer purchases in my opinion. if they went the route of design like HF it might seem a little off since the knights, at least in the previous line, were human and the HF bodies and builds generally lack human proportions and appear more mechanical in nature. but if they could make the design work, i think it'd be pretty cool (especially if they devoted time to the story behind the characters and towards the plot, to create something that stands a bit more apart from their other knight lines). and making them easier to customize than in the past would be a bonus. (oh and purple) -
To be honest, I don't hold too many issues with this type of approach. It makes writing fanfiction feel a little more rewarding and fun, promotes imaginative headcanons and for fan based input that sort of fits with Lego's emphasis on creativity and imagination. It's why I still feel rather heartbroken over a lot of little details that came to light through the canon of Bionicle, most of which come in the form of canonizing a bunch of minute details that really didn't need canonizing in the first place. But, an ending is a bit more important to a story than "This obscure mask does this, period" or "Makuta's name is Teridax" or "these are the official colors of this element which is now canon" and so on, however; since it's a Lego line I feel like it would make sense for the company to have some more open endedness in some stories (like Hero Factory where there wasn't really too much of an overarching theme and plot). Maybe less in stories where there is a clearly defined goal and theme and overall plot that connects and ties everything together, but having pieces of that story open to interpretation would be fun.
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Those Alternate Universes are still an alternate universe wherein a change to a primary character's gender occurred, while making that character congruent to the former male counterpart in terms of who they are to the new story. If this Bionicle is a complete reboot, it is essentially an Alternate Universe wherein characters will have different designs, will be written differently to some extent, and like Marvel, Lego can choose to alter the gender of some of the previous male characters to appeal to their female fanbase, as well. The change doesn't ruin the character, who they are, what they represent or even what they will do: it gives more characters an identifying quality for potential female fans ("If Tahu can be a strong, female leader than so can I" for example). IMO, it'd do Lego good insofar as they might be making some characters that can inspire young girls, just as male characters in media often inspire young boys -- and that is important. Also debating about something doesn't mean you're immediately correct. I could say the same thing if I said "By arguing about how this would be a bad idea, clearly means it's a good idea since people hold a different opinion to your own."
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A reboot would throw out the old Tahu and replace him with a new Tahu that fits and exists in the world of the reboot (This Tahu holds no memories, no development, no baggage, no anything in common with the old Tahu from the other universe the story took place in once upon a time). Difference is -- Stars Tahu, Tahu Nuva and Tahu Mata (And Tahu Phantoka) were all the same exact character with the same exact experience, the same exact writing, the same exact everything -- they were, altogether, effectively one single character. This would be an opportunity for the old six heroes to get a new story, a new development path, new experiences, new histories even -- these Toa were never Nuva, were never Phantoka, were never subjected to Vakama telling a long story about his childhood, they never encountered Makuta, they never did any of the things the 2001 versions of them did. They are all blank, clean slates that will likely just have the base archetype of their personality in common (and names). So... yes, they can alter the gender of some of them if Lego felt it appropriate to do so in order to balance the male/female ratio of the cast and to subvert the precedence of 1 girl per 6 male characters. It doesn't ruin Tahu, since old Tahu has no bearing in this universe as a force of character, and new Tahu hasn't even been written yet.
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I'm not really expecting TLG to change genders of characters, but I would be ecstatic if they did do so if this upcoming Bionicle is an actual reboot and not a continuation. My point is more that... these aren't the 2001 characters anymore. They have the same names, will likely hold same/similar personality archetypes, but their designs will be different, the writing for them may be different (actually it will be different as even if they re-hired Greg, his writing now likely isn't the same as it was then -- skills like that usually get better/worse over time pending on lots of factors), so it's not really too much of a stretch to think: Maybe TLG recognizes the poor ratio of gender representation in this popular line? Maybe some people from their company have read fan criticism, or received criticism of that nature, or have had focus groups with people who hold those opinions and will actually think about it. And if they're rebooting, there honestly isn't a better time to fix the 1 in 6 ratio they started (which would mean, for instance, making a female Tahu, or a female Kopaka, or a female Lewa -- or even more than one of them -- as at this point they aren't the same characters anymore and that's an important facet of this discussion). If they keep them all as they were in 2001, it wouldn't feel much like a reboot (assuming that's what they are doing).
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tbh when you wrote this it came off heavily as if changing some of the characters' genders to make them more relatable to a wider audience would ruin the story, ruin the characters for the old fans who want to remember them as they were; according to you it'd ruin the icons of the series and that any desire to see such a change is something that's silly and unworthy of the serious story of Bionicle. Like, those are the implications from your examples and statements. So I still stand by what I said. :/ emphasis is mine and is where it's more or less implied that desiring some gender alterations for a more balanced core team is a silly idea that ruins those characters for you (i didn't even touch the sarcasm nor comment on the poor analogy).
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Haha ok, I guess they're not my childhood heroes, too. :I Also, Vox, a lot of stupid things are controversial in the Bionicle fandom. It doesn't mean that you're right, or they're right, but saying "hey, they could even out the original team a bit more if they do reboot the series" isn't some offensive "I want to ruin your characters, your childhood, etc..." and saying so is doing a disservice to fans who have hopes for TLG to fix their gender representation problems since you're, essentially, saying that we don't deserve characters we can more easily identify with.
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Kinda tired atm, so sorry ahead of time if I butcher the English language (4AM is not a bed time, folks) Anyway, while I'm not 100% up to date on the specifics surrounding the new Thor (I don't really read comics and stuff, I just know what some articles bothered to cover), I still have a bit of a hard time seeing it as a completely unrelated instance. Like, if this is a true reboot... swapping character genders wouldn't drastically alter the old story, or need an over-complicated and likely poorly done explanation as to why: it's a new world, more or less, with different problems (and the heroes could be of varied genders despite having the same names of their predecessors). Personally, I would prefer it if TLG had more new characters introduced who were female -- I don't see it as too positive if they swap the genders of only previous characters, making all the new faces males. I really wouldn't want Lego pulling out more Roodaka's; I really couldn't stand the rahkshi head breasts, or the high heels (I also had a hard time standing her as a character, but that's a different critique). Keeping the character's form in theme with the other forms, aesthetically in the sets, doesn't really pose as much an issue from what I see? I mean, I bought Lewa in 2001 (okay, my parents bought Lewa in 2001) and I thought Lewa was female for the longest time (and Pohatu and Tahu, admittedly one of the Mata I thought male was Gali). I'm not even touching the posts with the pornography mentions. :/
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Marvel just did it with Thor, I don't see how that's unprofessional or how it would take away from the character or the series if Lego decided to do the same with some of their own characters, realizing it was a bad idea to make only one female character in the initial main cast. And sets don't... need to look like what you describe... ? Women have all kinds of body types and aren't all slim, short and with narrow shoulders. :/
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To be frank, though, whether or not the series was aimed at boys at the inception isn't why people critique it now. A lot of fans point out the terrible gender-ratio as a valid critique in hopes that, perhaps, more female characters would be introduced since there is a notable desire for it to happen. If nobody said a word, kept quiet, didn't make their desires for dimensional and interesting (and not the poor excuses that were handed out in the canon story) female characters then there would be absolutely 0 reason for Lego, or any writer, to even think about altering it. There's a lot of popular media out even now that features a healthy (sometimes unhealthy) male population/female population (Such as: Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Legend of Korra, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic -- even Young Justice, aimed at boys, drew in a much larger female audience than anticipated [Which lead to CN canceling the show, as they claimed "females don't buy product" despite that issue being more their marketing team's fault]). I can't say I entirely appreciate the strawmen erected in your post, granted critiquing Greg's beyond poor handling of female characters is completely warranted and necessary if the writing is ever going to improve (assuming they re-hire him for writing this new incarnation of Bionicle, and provided he listens to critique). And intention doesn't really matter when it comes to saying something, or writing something, that is sexist. And... Bionicle doesn't have to be marketed to only boys, it could easily be marketed towards any gender of person, but keeping it "boy-centric," in the manner so many describe on this site, would probably do more to hurt the selling potential of the line (as they're arbitrarily excluding an entire demographic within the target age-range).
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It is about that, yes. Rumors and speculation. A part of Bionicle is the story along with the characters and upon this rumor and speculation fans were speculating (hopefully) that maybe there would be a much better cast of female characters, having them more prominent in the story, in the line, hope that the future Bionicle would distance itself from a lot of flaws it made during the first run through. It is discussion on the topic, completely. As for flame wars, the only people I see who get flame wars rolling are those who vehemently oppose any increase or attention paid to female fans, often saying ludicrous things like "they don't exist!" or that the line must and always will be marketed to boys when there's a very real possibility Lego could drop the gendered marketing to enrich the story and fanbase. If you don't like a discussion, don't join in on it. Especially if all you want to do is invalidate everyone else, put them down, come across as if you're somehow better than those people who "ooze tumblr SJWness" or whatever was said earlier. Either way, I still think it would be incredibly important for there to be more featured female characters and sets, more of a presence throughout the various tribes and in the various story positions that don't pigeonhole the characters in one way or another. It was a massive flaw that took away from the original story and cheapened it.
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If it bothers you so much, then don't read it? It's completely germane to the topic at hand and does have a valid place of discussion. You aren't the topic arbiter, where we all follow what you specifically want to talk about and ignore what other people want to talk about in relation to the return of a franchise that others adore. Quite disrespectful, really. :/ @Dorek: Invalidating other individuals feelings and opinions and desires for this line, presuming it does return and all is true, is a lot more disrespectful and rude than replying to it with snark and making an example of why it's really a crappy thing to invalidate others' opinions and hopes for a line's return. And as for someone criticizing condescension and a holier-than-thou attitude... er... read what you wrote?
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Monogender tribes being every single tribe pre-Bara Magna (barring like... two? Light and one other, but those tribes were never featured prominently and no actual characters came from them, really). You are also objectively incorrect on the BZPower front. Like, I know at least 13 non-male fans of Bionicle from there out a pool of maybe 20 or so people I know total and there are tons more than that over there -- probably even over here, too. (Official Girls Corner was also a thing) Either way, just because something is a "boys" line doesn't mean female characters can't exist in it (or will sell poorly), it might even bring in more female fans since they'll have actual characters they can identify with in the series, opening up the series to a wider audience. EDIT: @GreatSpirit: I'm not bringing in whatever tumblr thing you're on about, I just mentioned a preference for having a larger female presence in a series I enjoy as the series was lacking in a lot of female characters to identify with. (Which doesn't really matter whether something's aimed at boys or not? It's not like the majority of the fans of the previous series followed the story as much as the people on BZP, who were definitely not the majority of fans).
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Despite what gender it was specifically marketed towards (honestly, there are so many female fans of Bionicle I feel like this point really shouldn't be relevant), but yeah there is a reason -- For fans who are not boys to identify with characters, so that other boys can see female characters as just as worthy of praise and respect as male characters, so that there's some more balance to the incredibly uneven casts. Like, I'll say again that there are non-male fans of Bionicle and they're just as important as the male fans. (In the end, I don't see how, at all, it would be a negative thing in the least to add some dimensional, interesting and respectable and original female characters -- let alone just removing monogender tribes.)