Darkdragon

I'm catching up with everything that's been posted today.

Either side. If you are scum because I didn't change my vote instantly and if you are town because you feel hopeless. I am happy to hear you didn't give up. I'm beginning to think Wesley spent nearly 24 hours not showing up because why bother since I had already voted for you.

I haven't decided what to do, I'm happy with the extra time to see what makes more sense and most honest with everyone's defenses. I am terrified of making the wrong choice here, this is the end no matter who is lynched. I want the win for Town and, no offence at all meant, but you know me pretty well and know my triggers and that I can be a softy at heart. Wesley on the other hand doesn't know me quite as well, but seems to know I appreciate concise facts. So the same thing you mentioned about being manipulated is what I'm trying my hardest not to fall into myself. When there were no replies for so many hours, I was afraid you had given up and wanted to see if you had any counters for what Wesley was talking about earlier.

I'm glad everything is alright in Pandoraland. Now that everyone is here do we still need the extended day? Do you have anything else to add@Hinckley?

I hope nothing ha gone wrong in Pandoraland. Vote: extend the day

@HinckleySorry to hear about the Day Three offline life stuff, sounds like what happened to me last game. I can see why you were so crazed that day. I hope M is doing alright now. You can rest assured I am reading and considering everything here, not ignoring it. You make some really strong arguments both for yourself as town and for Wes as scum. I was hoping Wesley would be around too, but we haven't seen hide nor hair of him yet today. The day is not over yet though, we still have a while left. I'm not sure if any of mental states could handle an extra 24hrs though, which is why I haven't voted to extended yet. It is still in the back of my mind though, especially if Wes doesn't come around soon.

Four hours with no posts Unbelievable. My apologies for doubleposting, i just finished analyzing all the days. This is a long one. ---- I am utterly blown away that there's a Day 6 and not a conclusion. Why was he refusing to defend himself? "That's not the way I play" is not a defense. I just don't understand such lazy towniness. It's about 8am and looks like nobody else is awake yet, so I guess I'll get started with today's arguments. The simplest way I could think of is to just look at each day, what each person did and the result of those actions. Of course I won't look at myself since I know I'm Town and I hate when people pretend they are assessing their own actions. I'm sure you two will both assess my actions and nobody will be forgotten. These are of course just things that stand out to me and I am looking forward to see what everyone else has to say about each of us. Caveat: I'm ignoring everything that appears to be obvious role-playing which is quite a bit of Day One. Wesley Day 1 Wonders aloud why she's the only one that see the humor in Crusher's post, tears apart Picard's posts point by point, votes Picard. Result: Picard was not lynched Day 2 Answers all of Deanna's and Worf's concerns. Puts up a weak case against Geordie and votes him (first). Defends himself against a new barage of accusations from Worf. Counterpoints all of Geordie's defences after Deanna and after more posts from Geordie. Responds to concerns rasied by Worf and Deanna (again), appears to be uninformed about the night kill potential. Writes a play for Deanna to explain things. Result: Geordie is lynched - Town Day 3 Defends himself as votes start to pour on very quickly. Lays out a case against Picard and votes for him. Counters Picard's defence reply. Responds to more questions from Deanna, Worf and whatever it was Data was posting. Responds to more accusations from Deanna. Responds to post from new-Picard and Data, worries the last scum is Worf, but changes vote to Data. Responds to concerns from Worf. Result: Data lynch - Town Day 4 Appears to be very angry about the result and blames it on Worf. Votes Worf. Votes to extend. Responds to Deanna's concerns. Responds to Worfs concerns and defenses (was voted by Worf at this point as well) Responds to Worf's and Deanna's concerns. Responds to Worf's defences and Deanna's concerns. Defends his vote and appears to be convinced Worf is the last scum. Result: Worf lynched - Town Day 5 Responds to Deanna's concerns and worries that the game is rigged. Votes Q Responds to Deann'as concerns Responds to Deanna's concerns, asks Riker to provide a summary of why Picard seems like Scum. Responds to Deanna's concerns, votes Deanna and disagree's with Riker's summary and again explains why he's voting Deanna Responds to Deanna's concerns (regarding himself) and to Rikers's concerns (regarding Picard) Back and forth defenses between Deanna and Wes (no votes changed) Unvotes Deanna but doesn't re-vote yet Respnds to Deanna, votes Picard Various responses to Picard, Deanna, Riker Result: Picard lynched - Town Deanna Day 1 She's having fun, Worf points out that she must be scum because she's so laid back, she defends the attack. Is much more "normal"/hyper in posts after the accusation. Goes after Geordie pretty hard but then attacks Picard for voting Geordie while accusing OMGUS against Deanna. I agree this was strange behavior. After the Dr.Crusher scumpost and after Worf votes (as covered yesterday), she votes for Crusher as well. Three more votes dropped on Crusher in the last few hours of the extended day. Result: Crusher was lynched - Scum Day 2 A lot of talk about knowing nothing about Star Trek and drinking. Forgives Picard for the over-reaction he (Picard) had on the previous day. Doubleposting to begin accusing Wesley for the Crusher defences. Doesn't vote but apparently thinks voting isn't open yet, votes Wesley when clarified vote is always open. Counterpoints all of Geordie's defenses to eplain how scummy he is (even though Deanna didn't vote for him) Defends Wesley as not being scummy at all, eplains why Geordie is very scummy, unvotes Wesley and hammer-votes Geordie. Result: Geordie is lynched - Town Day 3 Starts the day by being upset Geordie was Town and votes for Wesley immediately. Worries that nobody wants to extend the game and the votes are split. Says she suspects Data. (interestingly Wes was one vote away from lynch at this point) Posts suspicions about everyone except Wesley but double-posts to get Wesley suspicions out there as well. Worries about starting bandwagons. Worries about Data's scumminess and Wesley's good-playing ability. Leaves vote on Wesley. Worries again but leaves vote on Wes. Worries some more, most conversation between Picard and Deanna at this point. Doesn't change vote. Hammer-vote for Data in the last few minutes (less than 9 min) of the day. Result: Data lynch - Town Day 4 Starts the day with no comment but vote for extension. Counters Wesley's arguments agains Worf. Appears to be gearing up to vote on Wes again but doesn't. Doublepost about confusion and cheesburgers. Responds to Wesley's defenses. Double post to respond to Picard's posts. Very long post that basically summarizes as "I have no idea who to vote for". Responds to Picard's post about how scummy it is to be that indecisive. Sits around at the end of the day with Picard (again) before voting. After a few back-and-forth with Worf and Wesley, puts in the hammer-vote for Worf Result: Worf lynched - Town Day 5 Votes Wesley immediately, citing the previously made case from other days and says he will not unvote Wesley. Responds to Wesley's game concerns Doublepost to say Riker was in PMs Appears to be upset that the posibility of a Day 6 could happen because Riker didn't vote for Wesley. Quotes himself, Wesley, and Riker and asks where Picard is. Gets a backup vote on Wesley from Picard but then calls him melodramatic and scummy. Couple more posts about how melodramatic Picard is acting. Responds to Wesley's concerns. Writes out what is scummy and townie about each person. Does not change vote. Apologizes for pointing out the same things Riker already pointed out and makes a case against Picard but doesn't change vote. Back and forth defenses between Deanna and Wes (no votes changed) Is taken aback about the unvote on herself. Keeps her vote on Picard. Disappears for a while, comes back at the last minute (12 mins) to hammer-vote Picard. Discusses with himself who Wesley or Riker would kill if he allowed a night kill. Result: Picard lynched - Town During analysis I did notice that many of Deanna's double-posts are separated by many hours of nobody else posting, so less concern to me. So who do I find most scummy? It's a real close one, this is what i find scummy from each. Wesley - managed to slip out of a lynch multiple days. Not by changing anyone's mind but by a Townie getting in the spotlight. Deanna - many times said she was set on lynching Wesley as the most likely last scum but always ends up voting for a townie instead. many hammer votes. Sorry Deanna, but I think all of this speaks more to your skill at keeping us guessing and confused. vote: Deanna (Hinck)

The more Picard talks the more it looks like flailing scum. This is my most active day? That could be true. This is the end, the day we finally catch the last scum. This should be everyone's most active day, I see it is Picard's. I even made sure to keep my phone charged because scum like to pull voting shenanigans at the last couple hours of the day - just look at what happened to Data. I still find it laughable that you're calling my posts fluff when yours have nothing useful at all, you've even refused to elaborate or defend yourself. I'm over here trying to find the last scum and it seems clear I've found him days ago. Looking forward to the conclusion tomorrow if Deanna makes it back in time to vote.

Yes, this has been on my mind for two days now and other people have brought it up and I think "yes, that is a good point". It is the only thing that I see as pointing to Wes-scum possibility and it just isn't enough for me to vote on. I actually completely understand why you are not moving your vote, but I know you also see why we want you to. It takes all three of us and like you said, if the scum get a kill tonight we are guaranteed a Day Six and that's one thing we agree we don't want. As far as the host metagaming question (I think that's what you're asking), I think that the host would have to replace a player as soon as possible without considering the fact of what side they are on or what votes they made or had made against them. I don't agree with the vote removal that the host did, but I don't see it as major meddling either way - I'm sure he made the decision that seemed right at the time. I think that he would have done the same for any replaced player in the same circumstance, I don't see it as proof of alignment one way or the other.

There's still time for her to come to her senses.

Wow, that must have been a doozy of a headache. Those suckers are expensive.

Back from my meeting and my god the replies are not making this any easier at all. Every accusation is reasonable and makes perfect sense to me, almost every defense is reasonable and makes perfect sense to me. The only person I still don't see as having a good defense is Picard who Wes doesn't seem to find scummy at all and Deanna said was sorta scummy but didn't really agree with my reasons. There are a few hours left, I have no idea what happens if I don't vote at all, but I don't want to find out. I'm sorry, but I have to go back to my original vote here. Vote: Picard (Lind) Oh I see Wes has reconsidered and voted. Yes! Let's have a mafia-free weekend, please.

I have to say, going back over all these Deanna posts is a lot to take in. It seems like you're right about the waffling, even on Day One. She also seemed to have it out for you in mild ways even since the first day but definitely not mild since Day Three. What you point out about the Worf lynch does bother me, Deanna saying it was a bad idea - saying he would be scum killed even if not lynched - then voting for it anyway. It's not at all logical. There's a lot of talk about wanting the three of you (Wes,Troi,Worf) to work together but seeing it is impossible and yet she keeps mentioning it. I think the lack of PMing with y'all has gotten to her. Even though scum could PM with scum, she's only got herself in there now too since day one. Even though she's been after you almost every day, she suddenly has reasons for suspecting Picard and myself now that things are focusing on her. The case against Deanna is getting the stronger as I read back through posts without my Picard blinders on. I am starting to feel like her behavior is more telling compared to Picard, the scales are tiling in my eyes. I'm not ready to vote for Deanna, I'm honestly still trying to get back through the posts but it's taking a while - figured I'd give my thoughts so far up through mid Day Three. I can't at this point keep my vote on Picard because my belief that he is the last scum has been shaken. Unvote: Picard (Lind)

Not at all, I have been hoping someone would take a look at my reasoning for days and let me know if I seem to be onto something or am totally nuts. No ill will that you disagree, I think this is how we should be discussing instead of just fighting each other. Fighting has not been giving us the result we want so far, so why continue down that road? Though, fighting has been working very well for the last scum so there might be a reason s/he is contuing that way. You make some really interesting points in regard to Deanna. I was chalking most of it up to the normal MO. I may have been so convinced and tunnled on Picard that I let some obvious things slide right by. She does know your triggers and that can make it easy for her to keep the fighting going. On the other hand, I found her defences tonight to be fairly sound. I can't change my vote right now, but I am going to look back at the events you mentioned specifically and see if I agree with your assessment of things. This split vote is the worst thing we can do right now. I will be back in about 10 hours. Umm... I said this exact thing already and it was dismissed by everyone or ignored, I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. You don't usually parrot someone else's ideas.

NOTE: I see you just voted yourself Picard, I guess you figured i'd bring that up. I'm not going to rewrite anything after hours of looking through all the days, I still find it scummy and nobody here agrees self-voting is a good idea. NOTE 2: I have not yet read the other posts that were made in the past 5 mins. --- Alright, so I've tried to include everything here. I had suspicion before the new Picard showed up, but i don't think it's fair to bring that into play now since it's not the same person. Interestingly though, the suspicions are pretty much the same - which one might expect since the role didn't change. It's one of the outlying things that makes me feel pretty confident about Picard being the last scum. Bullet points as asked, but explained more in detail below Parroting Double posting Posts that don't have any substance or useful reasoning/breakdowns Wasting time and space with long posts about pointless promises Calling things scummy and then doing the same scummy things Disappearing for half a game-day when called out about things Very first post by new-Picard. Saying that Deanna looks scummy for doing the exact same thing that Picard starts doing the next day. Yeah, scum sometimes will say "oh man, that makes you look so scummy" and then forget they said that and because they are scum they do the scummy thing later This not an example of why I think Picard is scum, just to mention to @Pandora that the two accusations against you from Picard were from different Picards so a massive change in opinion shouldn't really be looked at in that particular case. Parroting what I had said just a couple of posts previously, so that's not even a thought of his own. In all other later days he has since waited until the end and then jumped onto each bandwagon. His first post from Day Four, completely worthless post-for-the-sake-of-posting. Which is strange because he's calling out basically everyone else for doing the same thing he is doing or is about to do (AGAIN). This was followed up with another post, I see double-posting as scummy and the reason is that it shows a person is so eager to show their surprise or whatever that they just post something to be out there fast and not actually thinking anything through at all. The post itself is that bizarre list of "if we were each scum this is who we'd kill" which I still find unhelpful and pointless in a game where we can easily prevent a scum kill by just voting as a team. Then throughout the day he keeps talking about the promise to vote Wes out (even though he never really did because a vote/unvote a moment later is ludicrous). Talks about how willing he is to self-vote even though self-voting is basically the only thing the rest of us agree is just a bad idea. He never actually does self-vote of course, just says he's willing to do it This Picard wasn't even here during Day Two! If you want to claim you can't be scum because of something previous Picard said, then we can go back and look at all the other scummy things that one said too. After a couple days of me trying to point out his scumminess, Picard just gets really quiet and jumps on bandwagons late in the game-day. I'm guessing to not make any more missteps that allow more dissection of his posts.

Yeah, it's going to take a bit and I just got into work, but I'll get it laid out as succinctly as possible.

Yeah, I remember people were suspicious of him and then just suddenly not and then the craziness with Data. I put it up to hyperfocing on someone else, not just you I mean all suspicion was dropped by most folks. It makes some sense at first though since he was replaced and we can't judge the new Picard by what the old Picard did and said. I've been looking at current behavior and still find it suspicious enough for my vote to remain. His behavior after the Data lynch is bizarre. I mean making such a big deal about the promise? Acting as if he is suddenly proven as the towniest of townies because Data flipped town? It all just makes me very uneasy. I don't understand why Wes is so keen on that interaction clearing Picard. Then again, he was the same way with Bev and we know how that turned out. Death is truly the only way any of us are cleared in this game. Wesley's first reaction to the day was strange to say the least. Was it a cleverly crafted post by the last scum to look like an exasperated townie? Maybe. Was it a truly exasperated townie who really thought the game was over? Maybe. Wesley keeps saying to vote him and then we can see for ourselves - another scum plan or town sacrifice? I don't know, I don't have the solution to this. I see many of the points you've made today in regard to Wesley and I agree it is suspicious. Like you I am unsure it's enough to change my vote but we still have around 20 hours so no need to panic yet. If we choose the right person today then we can all finally be free to work on some MOCs, June is coming fast.

There doesn't have to be. Can you tell me why you have zero suspicion of Picard? I am open to the possibility of being wrong here, there is only one scum left so we don't have to worry that it looks like defending a scum buddy. I won't just fall blindly into a vote but I am willing to vote with people. I'd just like someone to to say why they think I'm wrong first. It feels like everyone has given up or trying to fly way under the radar today. I'm up for about another hour tonight.

Waiting on for voting? Well I was hoping Picard would show up and say something or anyone at all would either agree or disagree with me about his behavior. I thought I answered everything you've asked, what did I miss? As I mentioned yesterday when replying to you, I was on my phone and you know how quoting things goes with that I saw you pick apart a bunch of posts made by not-me before I got here and honestly that's something I won't answer to or for because I have know idea what that person was thinking or doing. It seems you are just grasping at straws here and I don't really see anything to respond to exactly. I've put my ideas out there as best I can, I've tried to explain why I suspect certain people. I've never been very good at explaining my way of thinking or getting people to see what I see, but that doesn't negate the fact that I try. It really feels like everyone is getting tired and ready to end it. Maybe even the last scum just wants to be lynched so it can end. The thing I was hoping for is we could all look at one person, if figured you know I want to vote the same as I have been for the same reasons I've gone over multiple times. Splitting the vote today won't help us at all though, it will cause a Day 6 and one of us will not be here for it. Though I'm wavering based on this day existing and things that have been pointed out by you and the strange posting today, I still don't feel right voting for Wes. I was thinking you were scum if Word was town, but in today's interactions I do not see that as the case at all. That leaves me with Wes and Picard and of the two my strongest suspicion is still the Captain. So I'll vote with what I feel is the way to go and you can keep yours where it is, move it to Picard or move it to me as you see fit. Vote: Picard (Lind)

Yeah, it's really all we have right now I suppose. Speaking of paranoid stalking, I noticed Picard around for a while earlier but didn't post anything in here. Maybe he is just waiting for two votes on someone so he can come hammer it with an easy excuse on Day 6 that he was just in agreement and had nothing to add. It's a pretty persistent pattern so far.

The PM with the address is from December, I don't know how that will help? Here's the datestamp on the image and the image (with addresses removed of course) Honestly, you're cracking me up with this level of paranoia. You can look elsewhere for a timestamp on when I said it would be arriving soon. Wes can too, for that matter if he cares to. I've played enough that if i was going to be talking a scum buddy I would have covered my tracks and you'd have never known I think the level of paranoia Deanna has shown today is proof enough for me that she is not scum. So at least there's that question resolved for me.

That's some real paranoid stretching and old-school stalking, almost as bad as what Wes came up with. Yeah, I was getting the mailing address for secret late Santa. You want proof, I can snap a pic of the box i just taped up (taking it to the post office in about an hour from now)?

Im a lot more active during the work day because I'm at the PC all day Any other time, I'm on my phone which truly sucks. I noticed, but no idea why it would. It's a rare weeknight that I wasn't sure I'd have any connection. It's spotty but sorta working at the moment. It seems scummy to ask how scummy it would seem. Worf seemed to be laser focused on Wesley, but threw a couple little accusations out toward the end basically hitting everyone. Like you said, we are all scum and we are all town. This is not what I wanted to quote but I can't do anything about that now. So what I'm wondering is why nobody but myself has even looked at Picard since Day 1? His posts havent been of substance and you accuse me of flying below the radar? I think everyone got so focused on the Wes/Worf show that nothing else mattered. I tried to point out scummyness a couple times but the walls of accusations drowned me out. Is it possible scum-Deanna or scum-Wesley thought Worf was a more important player to take out of play? That is very possible. I think he was the most dangerous one of us left in the game. His ability to see through cleverly crafted defenses was terrifying to one of you, obviously. Now that hurts.

I'm not expecting anything just letting folks know I might not be around for the last hour or two but if anyone had questions for me I'll answer