bricks n bolts

HI Udo, thanks for taking the additional pictures at zero degrees and helping our understanding! Truly awesome! The new version looks even neater. BnB

There are so many great builders out there, this forum is just amazing and it's me who is honoured by any interest It's a real beauty, I held off on getting an EN as I would much prefer to build one of these. Funny, I was also thinking of using the medium BBB wheel for that back section. My whole base will be different because of the motor housing anyway. Also I will use a small BBB wheel for the front, I have some old red ones from the blue era but not the (likely rarer) red ones from the grey era as Thorsten has used, they look identical from the outside but the pins are different. There is also the version by Holger Matthes which uses the small BBB wheels, so I should be within the common variance. I love your pictures. Thank you!!, I don't know how I missed that. Now I must work out some orders. There is nothing else I can see red XL drivers would go so well with but a BR23

Hi Udo, That's a great MOD, great work and some nice trains in your collection!! I love stuff that bridges the train eras, I don't have any 9v track but may well get some ME Model track when it comes. I have some questions which I don't quite get from the pictures. 1. You say motor 8866, but that is the RC motor and not the PF motor which is 880002? The PF motor is preferable as that has much better torque. 2. Related to the above, I notice you are using the 9v decorative sides rather than the PF decorative sides, is it advisable to use the 9v ones or will the PF decorative sides do and did you shorten the axles to make this possible? 3. Can you give us some example brand/make/suppliers you are using for sourcing the brush wire as well as the screws? 4. It would be nice to see a picture from above the motor bogie so we can see better how you have spliced/attached the wire. Do the 5mm screws also attach the cable from the motor or is that solder? Thanks and Welcome to Train Tech! BnB

Thanks a lot guys! LT12V I saw your similar solution with the EN tender. I noticed you removed the curved decorative side, if you did that with one of the pickups on my bogie you can get the the buffer / magnet assembly one plate lower which would make it exactly the same height as most buffers. I didn't mind too much as it's on the front and it fits just fine under the loco but it's worth a mention. I just realised that both you LT12V and Toastie are exactly the people I need help with for my next project!! Which is to build a BR23! I've got the pdf instructions by Thorsten but am struggling on composing a list of parts so that I can order what I'm missing, I don't suppose you have any? Here is what's started me off, I noticed that the PF motor has two 1x4 sections of brick I could attach my modified pickups to, however the standard wheel height would make them too close to the track, the same for BBB middle drivers, the same for BBB large drivers, BUT the BBB XL drivers fit perfectly! Here is a mockup , just to house the motor/wheels/wires/lights : It runs fine even on even on the 12V switch tracks, as long as you don't try going backwards! 9v conductive brick does the job of joining the pickups as with the loco bogie.

I've no idea as don't have one but I saw this guys solution on brickshelf if that helps.

Thanks a lot Thorsten! It means a lot as this is my first major posting. I do find the idea cute as it bridges every train era to find a solution - it's one for us train heads. I don't have a PF Lipo to try charging it directly. But I know what you mean, and had considered it after reading about a similar idea using 9v pickups in Railbricks. It's cool and would mean that the train has a UPS system and can therefore run on any type of track, however the downside would be that the 12v interrupt rails / traffic lights would stop working, the expense of the Lipo box and you now have to find space for the Lipo box+receiver in the loco. It would be fun though, especially if you had multiple track systems (I currently only really have 12v grey, some half broken bits of blue track which I don't use and literally just a couple of bits of PF track which I just got out of curiosity). This one train would be able to cross all track systems and never need a recharge! I did order some bridge rectifiers which would mean with a bit of soldering I could complete the circuit for a such a system if I had a Lipo. My thought is that I can use the rectifiers for lighting up LEDs when the train is both in forward and reverse. You can get LEDs that already have the resistor built in for running directly on 12v so there's not much more you need to do with them (have used them on the new lamp posts without the rectifier as they are static). You still have to work out how to mount the LEDs on brick though, I do like the 9v light bricks as you can run those straight off the conductive plates, annoyingly though they are now also no longer produced by TLG and are becoming expensive. We should get TLG to at least keep the 9v conductive plates as they are so useful/tidy generally. Thanks a lot legomania That is the major flaw in the design is that these pickups are old in themselves, although will not break as easily as a motor. I would try to create my own if I could work out exactly how. The closet thing I can see is the guide here on converting a 9v motor to also have 12v pickups. Here he uses 7mm rivets for the pickups, some sheathing material and some very small springs. However he doesn't provide any links or any clue on where to start for sourcing this stuff. Does anyone know where to find rivets like that?

Hi all, I want to share a technique I've been using to get 12v power to the new PF motor, also useful for loco lighting. My track is grey era 12v and I wanted a way to use the new motors and not be reliant on the old ones which are getting very expensive and which I have a bad habit of breaking. My layout is on a table and crashes tend to be catastrophic, breaking the pins off many a good motor By comparison the new PF motors are very cheap and if I do break some of these it's not that bad. I know over-voltage is an issue but so far I've haven't had any problems. The trick is to modify the type 1 pickup bricks from the 1969-1975 12v motors so they are compatible with the 9v conductive plates. Note I think the type 1 is better than the later 1976-1980 type 1 & 2 due to : 1. the side of the brick the pins are - they fit the right side of a standard wheel base. 2. the thick, 100% metal pins are better for this mod 3. the pickups themselves seem to be made of better quality metal (I don't know but it's more 'brassy' looking - things were made solid in those days!). Obviously using such an ancient brick is both the beauty and the flaw to this as they are becoming rarer and on top of that you can say I either bring them up to date or brutalise them depending on your point of view. At least I can spray Teflon lubricant at them without fear that I'll break the motor whilst doing so. The example I'm going to show you is to convert the 7745. I've also changed all the 7745 standard wheels to 9v/PF wheels as they are so much better from a friction point of view, which matters when using PF motors, and also look good in my opinion. I like the classics but also like to apply upgrades as it keeps things alive, plus some things I never liked such as the 7740 pantographs, so was happy to swap those for a modern design. The rough and ridged 12v track probably doesn't help that much either regarding friction and I have a feeling the the PF motor wheels spin slightly on the curves due to the ridge on the inside tracks, it's not a big issue but I'll probably replace them with ME Model curves if/when they come out. I would probably go all the way to 9v if there was a viable pickup option that didn't rely on using old 9v motors which are soon becoming as expensive as the 12v ones. Step 1 - Convert two Type 1 pickup bricks. Note that the base of the pins exactly match the size of a stud!! We need to cut and sand down the metal until we no longer have the pins but instead two metal studs. It took me a while to get fast at this, first I use some heavy duty cutters followed by sanding - be very careful not to accidentally sand off the top of the plastic studs! Here is a before and after : The bricks are now 9v conductive plate compatible!! Step 2 - Add a 1x2 conductive plate to one of the modified pickup bricks: Step 3 - Add a 9v/PF wheel set to the pickup brick with the 1x2 conductive plate. I did try using motor wheels but the technic axle hole meant that the pickups were about half a plate too far or too close to the track. Step 4 - Add a 2x8 conductive plate (these only seem to come in white) on top of what we have so far : Step 5 - Attach a 2x4 conductive plate to the 2x8 Step 6 - Add one plain non-conductive 1x2 plate : Step 7 - Add another 9v/PF wheel set on the other side : Step 8 - Fill in / reinforce the missing gaps in the middle with standard plate / any decorations : Step 9 - Add a bogie plate and magnet assembly : Step 10 - Add a 9V wire to the other side. Note a 9v plug is two plates thick, so we don't need any more conductive plates to complete the circuit to the other pickup brick. Step 11 - Add the second pickup brick so all elements are connected and we have a complete bogie! Now we can put it with the loco : Here it is on the track : Without the roof, there is a 'plug tower' consisting of the PF motor plug, 2 9v/PF conversion wire plugs, 9v bogie pickup plug and for a 9v plug for the lights (which I converted to end in 12v plugs so I can still use the 12v light bricks). I had to lose a couple of studs worth of the decorative motors, but all in all it's hardly noticeable. I did also add one more weight brick at the end to give the PF motor a bit of extra grip, which means this 7745 now has two weight bricks. From underneath, note the distance between the pickups is exactly the same as on a grey era 12v motor. I also gave the end buffet car carriage one pickup for the lights. You can use two pickups but one is fine for lights - I don't mind the slight flicker you get when the train crosses switch points. This avoids the old problem with the 7745, whereby you have to run a wire along the whole length of the train just to light up the end car. I got an extra carriage for it, so that would be an extra pain! Bear in mind that you may want to skip this if you are pulling more than 4 carriages as the additional pickup on the end carriage will increase friction. That concludes the guide, hope you found it useful! More coming soon. I should add this train is mega-fast!! I usually avoid over-charging it on 12v by the fact that at that speed it will derail. I find that as long as I have 2 trains running it's not a problem to whack it on full, but if the other train stops for some reason I'm in trouble. Plus, as I said, if I do break the motor I can still use the pickups and just get another cheap motor from S@H, a lot easier than trawling ebay for a good deal on an original 12v motor. Although I may try opening up one motor (probably when I break my first) and swapping out the internal model with a brand new 12v one (the same one mentioned in Railbricks used on model railways) and see how that runs.

Really nice trains, all of them, my favourite is the Stadler Flirt and great layout... Can't stop thinking about the catenary, so simple and effective, the way they are regularly spaced just gives them that added realism.

Thanks indeed! Very informative, I had looked at the bottom of the PF motors but couldn't work out how to open them, Torx T-6 driver ordered!

If the light is not working but you are getting a buzzing sound from the motor it could be because you have shorted the track some how. Check the connections and go around the track to see if anything could be causing a short.

Fantastic MOC, great detail and nicely proportioned. I love that the doors work too, can you say how you did the metallic looking detail near the driver cab, looks great but can't see what bricks are involved?

Yes, I see what you mean, any train wider than 6 studs on the plain 12v points can cause collisions. I believe having wide trains was a chief reason he (Jan Van Dijken) did this. Take a look at Railbricks page 20 and Veendam2008 as that shows the 9v solution for adding custom metal rails and also how I believe, just by looking at it, how Jan did the 12v conducting rails for Veendam2007. So the 12v conducting rails I assume are made from the same stuff as the 9v rails. This in turn was based on work by Ken Rice (see here) but Jan used a different brand for the metal rails but the same plate connectors. The holy grail to me (as it would enable the first 100% new 12v track since the 80s to be constructed in full as well as potentially being both 12v and 9v at the same time - you could even run 12v and 9v trains in opposite directions ) would be constructing a 12v version of his entirely custom 9v switch points from Veendam2008 (i.e. this with conducting rails): I imagine it would take a lot of time to work out, experiment and build and end in some very sore thumbs though. Which is why I would love to hear from anyone who has tried already.

Sorry to bump an old-ish thread but has anyone tried the 12v mods here : Veendam2007 ? There are custom made curves and spliced switch points!

Thanks for posting the instructions, I like these a lot

Love the design, honest to the original 7777 . I still cherish my old copy from the '80s

Thanks must have been dreaming then, extension leads ordered

It's about time I introduced myself as I have been reading stuff on this forum for over a year now! It's great to see people more obsessed than I am My Lego train obsession started circa 1982 when I 'inherited' a pile of '70s blue track and rolling stock. I then got both 7740 and 7745, some switch tracks and a Shell wagon. After the '80s my dark age began and I didn't come out of it until a couple of years ago! Luckily my old sets and bricks were still in my parents attic but I had entirely missed the 9v and RC eras and had a lot of catching up to do!! I started by getting 7735, breaking it up, and using the spare parts to build a baggage car for the 7740 and an extra Shell wagon, ideally I would have wanted the sleeper car (still do) but they're hard to find and a bit pricey. I then also got more 12v track, the 4551 Hobby train (an excellent stock of parts) and the gold wagon from 4512, an extra carriage for my 7745, and recently the cow wagon from Blokbricks. When I first came out of my dark ages I didn't have a lot of room for a layout, but now have enough room on a largish table so can properly start to lay things out, I also got a City airport set to fill some of the central room of the layout (the airport building makes a good starting point for a largish station). The only compromise I've had to make is to allow some non-Lego farm buildings and animals to be next to the layout to keep the kids and wife happy, but am slowly integrating those (hence the cow wagon). I'm still not happy with my track design, I have one very long and complicated loop and some sidings, so it's tricky to run multiple trains even with the 12v signals, at the same time I have to make room for the farm and airport, so am working through that still. If 9v was still around I would probably have switched to that but as I have 12v already and 9v is getting just as expensive I decided to stick to 12v. I am however tempted by the ME metal rails and will probably get some if/when standard curves are produced. If I had more space I would also be tempted to try out Jan Van Dijken's idea for custom track (in Railbricks 3) as the pure metal track on brown sleepers looks fantastic. I'm generally also looking at upgrading electrics where I can, such as adding LED based lamp posts, looking at ways to add the latest/cheapest components, etc..

I read somewhere, can't remember where now, that 8870 Power Function lights had a 9v conversion built in. Looking at a picture of them I believed this was true as the middle black brick looked like it could have classic 9v contacts underneath so I bought two from the Lego online shop. Now that they have arrived I can see this isn't true as there are no metal contacts on the bottom of that middle black brick, or indeed under the PF plug like there is on the 8871 extension wire. So my question, was this ever true or have I missed something obvious? If it's not possible I need to buy some more conversion wires.... On a side topic the PF plugs do seem unnecessarily bulky and the fact you need a conversion wire on top of the lights if you want to convert to classic 9v means that the space saved with the light design fitting inside technic holes doesn't seem that great when you end up having a four plug tower and a bunch of additional wires that all have to fit inside the loco somewhere. So may just end up going with LEDs.

Like those old siderods, wish I had some... Also worth mentioning page 41 of Railbricks 6 which contains instructions on how to replace the old internal motor and other ideas. I tracked down the replacements at Conrad Electronic in case anyone is wondering where to get those. Those old '70s style motors were so versatile..

Guess you could pump 12v into 9v track and then develop a pickup mechanism although haven't tried. I'm currently developing the opposite approach, getting the new PF motors to run on 12v track. I'll do a proper write up and post it up soon I hope, largely working but still the odd thing to work out..

Thanks for the info! I'm running on 12v and have exactly this problem but my electronics skills are not that great, I can just about hold a soldering iron and can just about understand it if there no more than a couple of components.

Wow!, how does that work, is it hard to make?

Saw these LEDs that seem to have a built in resistor for 12v : http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=...O&U=Strat15

I've been having evil non-LEGO thoughts of combining that motor with these adapters : http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1001 and using that to the power the EN instead of a PF XL motor. Also as a way to to run 12v systems on the new PAB wheels.

Hi, I've been thinking of using the motors featured on page 41 of Railbricks 6 for 12v power, they have dual shafts. You can get them from conrad-uk.com. Due to the nature of the site you can't post direct links but navigate as follows : Home-> Hobbies-> Modelling-> Modelling engines-> Modelling Electric Motors-> Electric Model Motors, Mini->MOTOR RAILWAY X-TRAIN 263 H0 At least I think that's it, after zooming in on the tiny description on the Railbricks page. Howard