Kumbbl Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Hi all, just bought a quite old second hand technic set (studless) - the model is prebuild. Now i have the following challenge: some cross-axles are obviously more or less "cemented" in the cross-holes of the liftarms that is quite impossible to dismantle them - have already broken an axle... No my question: Anybody out there with an idea what i can do? maybe using some penetrating oil? but could this affect the plastic? Thanks in advance! Quote
Zerobricks Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 First time I heard of this...Maybe twisting the model a bit so the axles loose grip might work? Quote
EV3Noob Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 What about freezing the model in a closed plastic bag? Quote
Kumbbl Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 What about freezing the model in a closed plastic bag? sounds interesting... and would be the effect? why do you suggest this? Quote
EV3Noob Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I thought details would shrink because of the low temperature. Quote
Kumbbl Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 Hmm, very mysterious.... just checked some parts and it seems that a lot of liftarms are somehow affected by - by what is the question?! If i put one of my cross-axles in the pin-wholes of the liftarms then the axle can't spin free as it should but the "connection is so strong that the liftarm is spinned when i spin the axle... this happens in more or less all liftarms and in many of their pin-wholes.... has anybody an idea which environmental impact can cause this - is this heat or any deformation - never seen this before... at the moment i feel as if i should put a lot of the parts in the trash bin.... Quote
Kumbbl Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Maybe stuff is superglued together. this idea came already in my mind - but why should anybody superglue the parts of the enzo 8653 together?????? thank god that this is my third enzo and it was quite cheap (need the parts for some MOCs and the enzo is a good starting point for red supercar MOCs...;-) so i will survive this desaster but still very annoying... But the more important question: if it would be (super)glued - does i have any chance to clean the parts? Edited February 17, 2014 by Kumbbl Quote
DrJB Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) What about freezing the model in a closed plastic bag? I would not do that ... plastic tends to become much more brittle in the cold, you do not want to break more parts. However, what has worked for me, is a soak in soapy hot water. The heat makes the plastic slightly soft, and the soap, if it gets in the small opening, may make it easier to pull things apart. The last resort would be WD-40, but that tends to damage plastic if you leave it on for a long time ... I would separate as much as I can manually, then, for the stubborn connections, some WD-40 ... and be ready to wash it off very quickly in soapy water so the plastic does not degrade. Hmm, very mysterious.... just checked some parts and it seems that a lot of liftarms are somehow affected by - by what is the question?! If i put one of my cross-axles in the pin-wholes of the liftarms then the axle can't spin free as it should but the "connection is so strong that the liftarm is spinned when i spin the axle... this happens in more or less all liftarms and in many of their pin-wholes.... has anybody an idea which environmental impact can cause this - is this heat or any deformation - never seen this before... at the moment i feel as if i should put a lot of the parts in the trash bin.... Some of the older friction ins have the friction ridges that extend throughout the whole length of the pin, and the connections are a bit harder to undo. Edited February 17, 2014 by DrJB Quote
Hrafn Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 this idea came already in my mind - but why should anybody superglue the parts of the enzo 8653 together?????? thank god that this is my third enzo and it was quite cheap (need the parts for some MOCs and the enzo is a good starting point for red supercar MOCs...;-) so i will survive this desaster but still very annoying... But the more important question: if it would be (super)glued - does i have any chance to clean the parts? Rubbing alcohol might work, though I'd test it on one part first to make sure it doesn't melt the Lego. The same goes for acetone (found in some nail polish remover) and mineral spirits. Quote
peter_m Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Rubbing alcohol might work, though I'd test it on one part first to make sure it doesn't melt the Lego. The same goes for acetone (found in some nail polish remover) and mineral spirits. Alcohol is ok (e.g. to remove stickers) but acetone - NOT EVEN ONCE! I had a similar situation and I used a bowl of hot water with dishwashing detergent. Plastic was a bit more elastic (because of higher temperature) and also a bit more slippery (thanks to the detergent). It worked for me. Also you will have a set of clean bricks - double win :) Edited February 17, 2014 by peter_m Quote
aol000xw Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If it is glued freezing can break some glue bonds (superglue becomes very brittle) Unless you freeze it at very low temperatures ABS will be ok. I had a glued (by Lego for showcase) model some years ago, and It was not superglue, they used some kind of glue for model kits, and that thing is closer to melting parts together than gluing. But the presence of glue was pretty obvious. If it is not glued I agree on the hot water with dishwashing detergent. Let the model soak a few minutes and see what happens then. Quote
Kumbbl Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Hmm, i'm not sure if any cleaning can help here - most of the parts seems somehow damaged, somehow bumped, somehow "translucent" - sorry, can not better describe - take a look: the right one is one liftarm of my parts assortment whereas the left one is a liftarm of this mysterious set - do you see the slight bumps? is this original lego? Or here: again on the right a normal good liftarm from me and on the left the "damaged" one: please take a look at the forth pinhole of the left liftarm (counted from bottom): do you see this odd pinhole with this obvious smaller diameter - in this hole never ever fits an axle.. how can this happen? again: is this original lego or can these be fake parts? Edited February 17, 2014 by Kumbbl Quote
peter_m Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Hmmm... I know that 8285 had some lower quality red liftarms - but I have never seen anything like this... Maybe this is not original Lego? Maybe it is some cheap Chinese clone ( http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=52834 ) Edited February 17, 2014 by peter_m Quote
Kumbbl Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) yes, now i'm quite sure that my second hand enzo 8653 is a bad chinese clone - i have found this post in your linked thread (thank you peter_m): http://www.eurobrick...50#entry1514280 He writes: "..About parts: - the worst are connestors-axeles (worst pair, axeles often stuck to death in connector) and beams (badly molded, some pins fall out, others stuck hard)..." This is exactly my observation... and furthermore he writes: "I have many of those fakes ... http://www.brickshel...y.cgi?i=4708854 8674 ... Also I have "BELA" 8289 and 8653..." And Paul Boratko writes in the same thread: "...There was some guy from China selling 100's of these fake sets on Ebay last week and they have all mysteriously disappeared. He had dozens of fake 8653 Enzo Ferrari sets and fake 8674 Ferrari F1 sets for $39.99. As someone mentioned before, these knock offs are absolute trash as I have come across these in the past. The quality is terrible..." Just found that in German ebay some of these Bela 8653 were sold (e.g. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lego-Racers-Enzo-Ferrari-110-8653-/221370895745?pt=DE_Allesf%C3%BCrdKind_Spielzeug_Lego&hash=item338abbcd81&nma=true&si=zFVcYlqu3DrPfPSLEs404bwTbHA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557) - ~ 50€ - quite expensive for this trash... well, all this together is quite a proof that my set is such a "BELA" clone... grrrrrr...annoying though it was a cheap deal on ebay... well, better no hard feelings - hang it all - or better up in the trash bin ;-) Edited February 17, 2014 by Kumbbl Quote
dr_spock Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Looks like a solvent was used on the plastic parts. Not sure if it is Crazy Glue. Maybe acetone type which can melt and fuse ABS. Crazy Glue will release its bond if run through a dishwasher or left in a water a long time. Quote
Front Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 The left one is a clone, it can be seen how the split line on the side of the beam is right in the middle. Quote
aol000xw Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Wow that looks awful. The narrower hole clearly points to a chinese fake. Quote
Lakop Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Here I was just starting to think if this was a fake set. Lego need think about catering for those who would like to obtain a discontinued set and maybe sell parts packs via it's customer service to combat the fakes. H Edited February 17, 2014 by Horace T Quote
jantjeuh Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 8653 isn't that hard to bricklink together. It's worth it too, beautiful model. Quote
kungpo Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 As an aside, if you bought this on somewhere like eBay and the seller claimed it was Lego, and it turned out to be fake....well it wasn't as described and you should be in a position to get your money back. After all, for genuine Lego it might have been a bargain. As a fake...probably not. Quote
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