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LEGO Star Wars 2021 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

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2 hours ago, Kdapt-Preacher said:

1999-2007: OT 55%, PT 45%. More OT than PT sets, but pretty even split. Probably works out to even if you control for the fact that not all the PT movies were out the whole time, but I'm not going to try to.
2008-2014: OT 32%, PT 24%, TCW 43%. As remarked in this argument already, TCW dominated the era when there wasn't any other new content coming out. But the big news is:
2015-2021: OT 42%, PT 18%, ST 35%, TCW 6%. This is the major takeaway from this graph, in my opinion. The influx of ST sets almost entirely replaced PT and TCW sets, while the rate of OT sets remained roughly constant. That, in my opinion at least, definitely is grossly disproportionate enough to justify people getting up in arms about it. PT and TCW combined don't even make up 25% of sets for the last seven years. That may not hurt too much for people who've been collecting for decades, but for anybody who likes those eras who's just getting into LEGO or coming back after a long break, it's a pretty rough spread.

Thank you for finding all the stats, though I think some of your conclusions aren't correct, and a bit of the way you distribute them is slightly askew (why are RO, solo, and Mando OT, but clone wars is it's own thing?) Namely, if you look at the distribution, we got massive prequel waves in 2013 and 2014, and the literal wave after the new films stop, we suddenly start getting a much more even amount of sets for each era. During the flux of new films, since about half their sets went to the new ones (And it's important to remember that two of the new films we got are classified under OT.), so with the remaining spots they took the safest possible bets in case the new films didn't do well. I might come back and crunch the numbers for it in a few hours, but I suspect if you pull out all new films and series from 2015-2019, classic OT sets aren't all that far off number-wise from classic prequel sets.

If anything, the major takeaways from the data are that lego leans heavily into new films, and that in "off-season" between them we tend to get a more balanced mix of eras.

2 hours ago, Kdapt-Preacher said:

And that's without even touching the PT UCS question.

I think the reasons for that are drastically different than those for the system sets, though. Adult collectors are the basis there, and they HATED the prequels (and clone wars, hellogreedo has a great video where he just goes back and shows all the hate the clone wars got in it's early days), so there was no money in prequel UCS. The gunship vote was a test to see if prequel UCS could sell, and if the gunship's selling well, maybe we'll get more prequel UCS.

1 hour ago, The Stud said:

I’m actually feeling somewhat optimistic about the future of Clone Wars sets. The two sets they came out with last summer were really popular at the start and both of the sets they came out with this summer seem to be doing really well (more so the Mandalorian Fighter but still.) There’s an entire wellspring of set potential in that show/era and I think Lego recognizes that by now. I think hoping for an entire wave full of Clone Wars sets is pretty unrealistic nowadays but I could see them continue doing a few desirable Clone Wars sets each year. 
 

The only thing potentially getting in the way of this is the several other shows we have coming out on Disney+ in the next few years. It depends if Lego follows the same approach as Mando and Bad Batch where they only do one set at first.

I agree, though more about clone trooper/Mandalorian sets than strictly clone wars. Lego is starting to see the demand for these characters, not just from some grown adults online, but from actual sales figures, so I think we'll be seeing them more frequently.

With the shows, lego got super cautious about them after the clone wars series ended and their mishandling of the rebels sets led to poor sales. I've gone over it before, but they also mishandled resistance, what with not releasing the MAIN HERO SHIP (I haven't seen much of the show, but the fireball was the most prevalent in the marketing and definately a nice design), which further reinforced the idea that animated series sets wouldn't sell well. Obviously that led to only the one mando set, which along with the baby yoda situation emblematic of 1977 star wars merch, was quickly resolved with a solid amount of sets, but it's status as not only live-action, but baby yoda's show assumedly is part of what kept them cautious about bad batch. The shuttle appeared to do well, so my guess is we'll get more sets in summer 2022 with season two, as while well-liked I'm not sure bad batch was popular enough to get sets 6 months between seasons when they could just wait until season 2 premieres and have sets out to ride the hype there. My guess is BoBf, due to it's mandalorian connections, will start with a couple sets, then have a mandalorian-like distribution after. Obi-wan and andor will probably get one set, if any, especially considering the tone of andor.

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24 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Thank you for finding all the stats, though I think some of your conclusions aren't correct, and a bit of the way you distribute them is slightly askew (why are RO, solo, and Mando OT, but clone wars is it's own thing?) Namely, if you look at the distribution, we got massive prequel waves in 2013 and 2014, and the literal wave after the new films stop, we suddenly start getting a much more even amount of sets for each era. During the flux of new films, since about half their sets went to the new ones (And it's important to remember that two of the new films we got are classified under OT.), so with the remaining spots they took the safest possible bets in case the new films didn't do well. I might come back and crunch the numbers for it in a few hours, but I suspect if you pull out all new films and series from 2015-2019, classic OT sets aren't all that far off number-wise from classic prequel sets.

If anything, the major takeaways from the data are that lego leans heavily into new films, and that in "off-season" between them we tend to get a more balanced mix of eras.

Oh, I can see how my post might have been unclear. All these numbers are only looking at sets for the nine numbered films and TCW. RO, Solo, Rebels, Mando, and the various smaller sub-themes aren't included in this data at all. If you included the other OT-era subthemes in the OT count it would be another 67 sets since 2014, skewing the distribution even further in that direction. In fairness, if you did that you should also count Yoda Chronicles, Bad Batch, and a couple other miscellaneous sets towards TCW, adding 10 to that count as well, but that doesn't remotely make up the difference.

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He mentions that even if you combine TCW and PT, the numbers don't look good. As for RO, solo, and mandalorian, many of the sets are simply OT sets (e.g AT-ST, light crusier), include OT figures or aesthetically/thematically OT themed. OT vehicles have enjoyed having their main variants re-released while also getting complimentary variants. An example would be the tie-striker, while a RO vehicle is aesthetically fits in with the OT tie fighters. For the PT it would be the  OT lamda class shuttle compared to the nu-class shuttle, or the republic y wing versus the rebels y wing. The PT variants appeared one time over 10 years ago and havent showed up since

 

8 minutes ago, Kdapt-Preacher said:

Oh, I can see how my post might have been unclear. All these numbers are only looking at sets for the nine numbered films and TCW. RO, Solo, Rebels, Mando, and the various smaller sub-themes aren't included in this data at all. If you included the other OT-era subthemes in the OT count it would be another 67 sets since 2014, skewing the distribution even further in that direction. In fairness, if you did that you should also count Yoda Chronicles, Bad Batch, and a couple other miscellaneous sets towards TCW, adding 10 to that count as well, but that doesn't remotely make up the difference.

Yikes, so the RO AT-ST and y-wing doesn't count as  OT vehicles in the dataset?

Edited by Bobbtom

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27 minutes ago, Bobbtom said:

Yikes, so the RO AT-ST and y-wing doesn't count as  OT vehicles in the dataset?

Correct. And neither do the Rebel and Imperial battle packs that are technically based on SW:Battlefront, or the TIE fighter sets with Legends vehicles, or Darth Vader’s Castle, and so forth. Only the ones that are specifically for the three OT movies. 

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3 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

 Well, not exactly. First off, if we're talking about the clone wars, it DOMINATED release-wise for years, because, like you said, there was no other media at that point. I don't think the examples you specifically chose are great, as the venator had been around for what, 3-4 years at that point? and the ARC-170 had been released beforehand. And really, especially in recent years we have gotten a fair amount of prequel era sets.

You're right about the CW dominating for a stretch but ever since TFA, outside of movie releases, the sets have been overwhelmingly OT compared to PT. X-Wings and Tie fighters are iconic so they're a given/must but we've had more variations on Luke's Landspeeder than the MTT, ARC-170, Venator, V-Wing, CW Y-Wing, Turbo Tank, AT-TE, and Gunship. That's dumbfounding if you actually think about it. I know the land speeder has about 5-10 minutes of screentime in ANH and the republic ships only have 2-3 minutes each but it's still ridiculous given the circumstance. We're not asking for one every few years but maybe do one every 5 instead of every 8 years. 

Now on top of that the Landspeeder is getting a UCS set before all of those PT ships which is the ultimate meme. I really hope the Landspeeder looks good and is done well cause I like collecting all the UCS models but that doesn't change the fact that the over saturation of OT sets over the last 5-6 years is dumb. Also the Venator might have only been 3-4 years old back then but it isn't now. It has possibly the most screentime of any PT ship, save the Gunship, across all media making it a prime candidate for a UCS version. 

Anyways, I hope the new wave isn't entirely Hoth and if it is I hope we get Home 1 or one of the Rebel Cruiser type ships. We've never got one of those before so that'd be nice addition. 

3 hours ago, Kdapt-Preacher said:

Instead of spending pages arguing opinions about this, why don't we argue about the actual numbers?

Z3AiGNX.png

Looking just at regular system sets, BrickLink shows 181 OT, 121 Prequel, 49 Sequel, and 74 TCW. There's a little bit of fuzziness with those numbers, since they include some polybag figures and miscellaneous other stuff that probably shouldn't count for these purposes, but they're good enough to save the work of going through every set manually. LEGO has been releasing SW sets for 22 years, but only the OT and TPM have been out that long; the average Prequel movie has been getting sets for 19 years, the average ST movie for 4 years, and TCW for 13 years. That works out to 8.2 sets/year for the OT, 6.4 sets/year for the Prequels, 12.3 sets/year for the Sequels, and 5.7 sets/year for TCW.

 So from the raw numbers, it looks like the OT gets more coverage than the PT but not by that much, while the ST is seriously overrepresented and TCW gets the shaft. But of course that's not the whole story, since set distributions don't remain even approximately stable over time. Movies are always (obviously) disproportionately covered when they come out and then get far fewer sets in later years--for example, more than half (25/49) of all TPM sets ever are from the first three years after the movie premiered. Furthermore, the total number of sets released has increased significantly over time, from a low of 12 sets in 2001 to a high of 67 in 2018, meaning that movies that got their premier bumps earlier got fewer total sets than newer ones. As a result, the better metric is the average fraction of total sets allocated to each era during the years that that era has been out. For that, we get: OT 44%, PT 30%, ST 35%, TCW 25%. (Those numbers don't sum to 100% because TCW and the ST aren't averaged over the whole time period--if we included the 0s for the years before those eras premiered, it would add up, but that wouldn't be very useful data).

That shows the OT consistently overrepresented, the ST doing a bit better than the PT, and TCW getting the shaft again. Now, the ST is still higher because it hasn't had the 'tail' yet; most of the years we're counting here are still the premier bump period, so we should expect that to even out over time as the rate of new ST sets in the next couple of years will be much lower than it was while the movies were coming out. To clarify that a bit, we should break the graph out into sections: the period from 1999-2007 when it was just OT and PT, the period from 2008-2014 when TCW was introduced, and the period from 2015-present when the ST was introduced. Conveniently, that separates the total period almost exactly into thirds.

 1999-2007: OT 55%, PT 45%. More OT than PT sets, but pretty even split. Probably works out to even if you control for the fact that not all the PT movies were out the whole time, but I'm not going to try to.
2008-2014: OT 32%, PT 24%, TCW 43%. As remarked in this argument already, TCW dominated the era when there wasn't any other new content coming out. But the big news is:
2015-2021: OT 42%, PT 18%, ST 35%, TCW 6%. This is the major takeaway from this graph, in my opinion. The influx of ST sets almost entirely replaced PT and TCW sets, while the rate of OT sets remained roughly constant. That, in my opinion at least, definitely is grossly disproportionate enough to justify people getting up in arms about it. PT and TCW combined don't even make up 25% of sets for the last seven years. That may not hurt too much for people who've been collecting for decades, but for anybody who likes those eras who's just getting into LEGO or coming back after a long break, it's a pretty rough spread.

 Of course, this doesn't take into account the fact that TCW and PT sets can often double for each other, or that there's a fair bit of overlap between OT and ST sets as well (yes, yes, they're different, but one X-wing or Falcon is much like another for many purposes). That's a matter of personal opinion for whether you'd want to count some sets as both PT and TCW or whatever, so you can shift these numbers around a bit if you like to compensate for that. But the point is that, even combined, the PT and TCW definitely are seriously underrepresented compared to other eras. And that's without even touching the PT UCS question.

 

 

Its Beautiful GIF | Gfycat

I hadn't read this when I posted the earlier bit but I guess the data proves OT is more than over-represented by Lego. 

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I’m going to go back looking for it through this thread considering how long most of the posts are, but shouldn’t Rebels, Solo, R1 count as prequel era sets? I mean r/prequelmemes counts them as such, and even though of them have very Ot inspired design, it would certainly change the percentage up? Mando would also count as st, but that could certainly change the proportions if you added those, and combining all the pre ANH and post ROTJ properties might outweigh Ot.

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No, they take place before the OT, so a literal interpretation would mean they are "PT," but the sets and figures are functionally, aesthetically or literally OT. It is not practical or reasonable to consider the  RO AT-ST as  a PT set. Similarly, it is not reasonable to  consider the stormtrooper in the rogue one y-wing to be a PT figure, that is just ridiculous-even when discounting that the fact that the exact same figure appears in the actual OT sets. A reasonable person is not going to look at the AT-ST on a shelf and say "on I know that, it's from the prequels"

Edited by Bobbtom

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PT sets 
Episode 1: 34 sets of which 17 were due to movie being released 1999-2002
Episode 2: 18 sets of which 9 were due to movie being released 2002-2003
Episode 3: 41 sets of which 17 were due to movie being released 2005-2007
PT total: 93 sets of which 43 are movie release + 5 UCS sets
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OT sets
Episode 4: 43 sets 
Episode 5: 35 sets
Episode 6: 36 sets
OT total: 114 of which 0 are due to movie release + 5 helmets + 2 master builder series + 28 UCS sets
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 11 legends sets: 8 are OT based, 1 is based of force unleashed and 2 are Clone wars based
Clone Wars: 60 sets
Rebels: 13 sets
Resistance: 2 sets
Rogue one: 9 sets
Solo: 8 sets
The Mandalorian: 9 sets
The Old Republic: 4 sets

TLDR: OT has: 157 sets not counting UCS AT-AT and all other rumored sets for next year
            PT has: 98 sets, but 43 were strictly movie releases that were made 1999-2007

*didn't count mini builds, microfighters, figure packs, polybags, magazine stuff, planet series, gwp, comic con....*

Last 2 years:
4 PT sets ( gunship included)
17 OT sets ( UCS AT-AT not included) + 2 comic con sets, 2 gwp and 3 microfighters.
4 PT vs 25 OT and we already have battle pack, AT-ST, helmets and microfighter rumored for OT next year and nothing for PT.

 

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15 minutes ago, Bobbtom said:

No, they take place before the OT, so a literal interpretation would mean they are "PT," but the sets and figures are functionally, aesthetically or literally OT. It is not practical or reasonable to consider the  RO AT-ST as  a PT set. Similarly, it is not reasonable to  consider the stormtrooper in the rogue one y-wing to be a PT figure, that is just ridiculous-even when discounting that the fact that the exact same figure appears in the actual OT sets. A reasonable person is not going to look at the AT-ST on a shelf and say "on I know that, it's from the prequels"

Right, right, but only 6-7 of those actually apply to the sets (I’m not really thinking about minifigs), and it’s not fair to discount all of them because a few are, and considering that one or two resemble pt too, I think it would be worth taking into consideration. 

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13 minutes ago, PreVizsla said:

<snip>

The difference between these specific numbers and mine is that I just used the number listed for each movie on BrickLink, which includes some foil packs, co-packs, reissues with new numbers, and so forth that shouldn't really be counted as sets, so your numbers are better than mine (for anybody else referencing this). But the basic idea that the OT gets a lot more sets is going to hold up no matter how you slice it.

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I’m of that all-too-uncommon breed of fan who enjoys each era (OT, PT and ST) and am content with enjoying them for what they are. Digging down into the nitty gritty and classifying which movie/show fits into which era and which era is getting the most representation is all superfluous to me personally (not to discredit anyone who’s interested in such things) because it’s all Star Wars at the end of the day. There’s sets I want Lego to make from each movie and show.

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26 minutes ago, Kdapt-Preacher said:

the basic idea that the OT gets a lot more sets is going to hold up no matter how you slice it.

I wasn't trying to slice it. I agree with you, they are getting way more sets and i personally hate it, but we are having the same conversation each year and nothing changes.

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13 minutes ago, PreVizsla said:

I wasn't trying to slice it. I agree with you, they are getting way more sets and i personally hate it, but we are having the same conversation each year and nothing changes.

The thing is, even many OT fans hate the OT sets that LEGO keeps putting out. Landspeeders, X-Wings, generic TIEs, snowspeeders, A-Wings, Y-Wings, AT-STs... it's the same damn designs over and over... dressed up in a new paint deco, or a slightly changed build, or with one new fig (yay!) or re-scaled to fit a new price point... and there's honestly only so many of any of these that any of us want.

Yes, there are always people who pop up right about now saying "but I'm happy for another landspeeder because I (somehow, inexplicably) missed the one that retired three months ago"... but for those of us that didn't just emerge from a dark age, or who have been collecting for more than the last 6 months, the repetition is really frustrating. And this isn't just OT... LEGO puts out the same half-dozen PT designs over and over (Jedi Starfighters, Interceptors, AT-RTs, etc.), and even the sets from the ST and anthology movies increasingly bypassed new designs (see: TIE Heavy, Cargo Shuttle, Exegol, Ochi's Ship, etc) in favor of well-worn, recycled "sure-seller" sets.

Honestly, I would not care what the mix of movies/shows was, so long as the mix featured more *unique* designs/builds to fill the many gaping holes across the entire SW timeline. Sadly, skimming through the last 7-8 years of sets on Brickset, it seems this number has dropped considerably over the last few years, at least as far as system sets are concerned (helmets, statues, etc... doesn't, doesn't count.)

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20 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

Landspeeders, X-Wings, generic TIEs, snowspeeders, A-Wings, Y-Wings, AT-STs... it's the same damn designs over and over... dressed up in a new paint deco, or a slightly changed build, or with one new fig (yay!) or re-scaled to fit a new price point... and there's honestly only so many of any of these that any of us want.

TLG need to keep pumping out these designs, not for AFOLs, but for children. The X wings, TIEs and snowspeeders, while monotonous, are the most iconic SW vehicles which most kids will want. The designs have to be updated or altered, either for the designs compatibility with other sets or to ensure it does not compete with other new sets, as well as to remain current design and technique-wise. Every couple of years a generation of children will grow out of Lego SW and a new generation will enter the market, and it important to have the iconic sets there to purchase for them.

Where the issue for me is, is the other main retail sets, (I see the X-wing and TIE spots as a sort of necessary reduction in product availability for the above reasons). The landspeeeders, A wings, Eta 2 interceptors and other generally uniconic vehicles really should be substituted with designs we haven't seen much of, like the ARC 170, just as an example.

Edited by Stuartn

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2 hours ago, PreVizsla said:

Last 2 years:
4 PT sets ( gunship included)
17 OT sets ( UCS AT-AT not included) + 2 comic con sets, 2 gwp and 3 microfighters.
4 PT vs 25 OT and we already have battle pack, AT-ST, helmets and microfighter rumored for OT next year and nothing for PT.

 

I'm just curious, what are you classifying as PT sets?  Of strictly prequel stuff, I would assume you mean Duel on Mustafar, Grievous' Fighter, Anakin's Fighter, and the Gunship, but I think the 501st set, AAT, Duel on Mandalore, Bad Batch Shuttle, and Mandalorian Fighters could also count.  They're prequel era and the shows tie in with the movies pretty closely.

Also, I would probably count Yoda's Lightsaber as a prequel GWP, since he doesn't use it in the OT.

Now, that doesn't the numbers even, I know, but there is a bit more stuff that I would classify as "prequel era."  

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3 minutes ago, Stuartn said:

TLG need to keep pumping out these designs, not for AFOLs, but for children. The X wings, TIEs and snowspeeders, while monotonous, are the most iconic SW vehicles which most kids will want. The designs have to be updated or altered, either for the designs compatibility with other sets or to ensure it does not compete with other new sets, as well as to remain current design and technique-wise. Every couple of years a generation of children will grow out of Lego SW and a new generation will enter the market, and it important to have the iconic sets there to purchase for them.

Yes, that's what I meant by "sure-sellers". These sets will always be there for the obvious reasons, but increasingly, they seem to be dominating the lineup in ways that they weren't, say, 5-10 years ago. This is largely down to LEGO scaling back the SW line, leaving less room for "new" given the core block of 20-odd sets will get recycled over and over no matter how small the line gets.

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5 hours ago, Kdapt-Preacher said:

Oh, I can see how my post might have been unclear. All these numbers are only looking at sets for the nine numbered films and TCW. RO, Solo, Rebels, Mando, and the various smaller sub-themes aren't included in this data at all. If you included the other OT-era subthemes in the OT count it would be another 67 sets since 2014, skewing the distribution even further in that direction. In fairness, if you did that you should also count Yoda Chronicles, Bad Batch, and a couple other miscellaneous sets towards TCW, adding 10 to that count as well, but that doesn't remotely make up the difference.

That does make the data a bit different, though I'd say if we count them it'd half to be on a set-by-set basis, nearly. A good number of the RO sets are very similar to OT ones, but many of the solo sets, for instance, are only connected to the OT through han solo, and since the main chunk of the film takes place almost exactly halfway through the ROTS-ANH gap, that's a pretty tenuous connection. Plus, yoda chronicles and the other lego-ip sets are weird to count. Jek-14's fighter isn't in the prequels or clone wars, but it comes with clone and mandalorian characters, so while I personally wouldn't count it as part of anything there's an argument to be made. Some of the mando sets are close enough to OT (imperial vehicles), but others honestly seem closer to PT (colorful mandalorians), and some really seem more on their own (Razor crest). Clone wars sets pretty much all fit as prequel sets, but rebels is a weird one. Sure, many sets are OT styled, so it'd be a boon to that count. But how do you count rex's AT-TE? It's a Clone wars vehicle with clone troopers, but it takes place closer to the OT.

TLDR it gets pretty subjective on a set-by set basis, but I think overall the OT did get a solid percent more sets in that 2015-2019 period of the new films, again because they were the safest bets to sell well.

4 hours ago, kidtheboss611 said:

You're right about the CW dominating for a stretch but ever since TFA, outside of movie releases, the sets have been overwhelmingly OT compared to PT. X-Wings and Tie fighters are iconic so they're a given/must but we've had more variations on Luke's Landspeeder than the MTT, ARC-170, Venator, V-Wing, CW Y-Wing, Turbo Tank, AT-TE, and Gunship. That's dumbfounding if you actually think about it. I know the land speeder has about 5-10 minutes of screentime in ANH and the republic ships only have 2-3 minutes each but it's still ridiculous given the circumstance. We're not asking for one every few years but maybe do one every 5 instead of every 8 years. 

Now on top of that the Landspeeder is getting a UCS set before all of those PT ships which is the ultimate meme. I really hope the Landspeeder looks good and is done well cause I like collecting all the UCS models but that doesn't change the fact that the over saturation of OT sets over the last 5-6 years is dumb. Also the Venator might have only been 3-4 years old back then but it isn't now. It has possibly the most screentime of any PT ship, save the Gunship, across all media making it a prime candidate for a UCS version. 

 

So this is almost entirely focused on the landspeeder, so I'll just say: The landspeeder IS one of the most iconic vehicles in the saga. It's also a way to get luke, obi-wan, c-3po, and r2-d2 in a single, cheap set, but the main point is on the iconicity of the vehicle. Yeah, it's not in the series all that much, but it's more than slave one, almost all republic vehicles, etc. It is one of the definitive star wars vehicles. If you ask people on the street to name 5 star wars vehicles, I guarantee it would be "x-wing, tie fighter, millenium falcon, imperial walker, luke's speeder" a solid 90% of the time.

1 hour ago, Kit Figsto said:

I'm just curious, what are you classifying as PT sets?  Of strictly prequel stuff, I would assume you mean Duel on Mustafar, Grievous' Fighter, Anakin's Fighter, and the Gunship, but I think the 501st set, AAT, Duel on Mandalore, Bad Batch Shuttle, and Mandalorian Fighters could also count.  They're prequel era and the shows tie in with the movies pretty closely.

Also, I would probably count Yoda's Lightsaber as a prequel GWP, since he doesn't use it in the OT.

Now, that doesn't the numbers even, I know, but there is a bit more stuff that I would classify as "prequel era."  

Yeah, the idea that CW needs to be counted separately from prequels really doesn't make sense for many of these.

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4 hours ago, Brickroll said:

I’m going to go back looking for it through this thread considering how long most of the posts are, but shouldn’t Rebels, Solo, R1 count as prequel era sets? I mean r/prequelmemes counts them as such, and even though of them have very Ot inspired design, it would certainly change the percentage up? Mando would also count as st, but that could certainly change the proportions if you added those, and combining all the pre ANH and post ROTJ properties might outweigh Ot.

If you genuinely think Rebels, Solo, and R1 are prequel era then you need to rewatch the saga cause they all take place over 10 years after the ending of the prequel era (ROTS). The different eras aren't corresponding solely with the films but rather the ruling faction and story at that moment. The Prequel Era is the High Republic and the Fall of the Jedi. The Original Trilogy Era is the Reign of the Empire and Age of Rebellion. The Sequel Trilogy Era is the New Republic and Rise of the First Order. That's the official Disney breakdown from the start of this year so there's no arguing that. 

Now that that's established, the fact they weren't counted as OT for the graph is dumb cause they are all effectively imperial era shows just how absurdly high the OT era sets have been represented in Lego over the last 5 years. Many vehicles that probably didn't need remakes so soon after the movie version got remakes like the AT-ST after next year we'll have had 3 in 4 years, or the Tie Fighter which will have 5 (one being first order) in 6 years. The point is fans have a right to be annoyed as more of the 2022 rumors look bleak and overly OT.

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4 minutes ago, kidtheboss611 said:

Now that that's established, the fact they weren't counted as OT for the graph is dumb cause they are all effectively imperial era shows just how absurdly high the OT era sets have been represented in Lego over the last 5 years. Many vehicles that probably didn't need remakes so soon after the movie version got remakes like the AT-ST after next year we'll have had 3 in 4 years, or the Tie Fighter which will have 5 (one being first order) in 6 years. The point is fans have a right to be annoyed as more of the 2022 rumors look bleak and overly OT.

I'm not disagreeing with the breakdown of sets at all, nor with the fact that at least two of those three should probably count towards OT (RO for sure, Rebels with a lot of stuff, Solo I'd say is a bit more debatable, but if I'm counting CW towards prequels, then I'd say it's fair to count Solo towards OT :tongue:), but in fairness, the reason that we were getting those sets was because they were topical at the time, and none of those properties have gotten really any attention at all other than their initial waves.  I believe RO got a couple of sets released after the film wave, and then Rebels had a handful but nothing since, like, 2017.  So, believe me, I see where you're coming from, because I am a huge RO fan and absolutely want more sets from that movie, and same deal with Rebels.

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1 minute ago, Mandalorianknight said:

So this is almost entirely focused on the landspeeder, so I'll just say: The landspeeder IS one of the most iconic vehicles in the saga. It's also a way to get luke, obi-wan, c-3po, and r2-d2 in a single, cheap set, but the main point is on the iconicity of the vehicle. Yeah, it's not in the series all that much, but it's more than slave one, almost all republic vehicles, etc. It is one of the definitive star wars vehicles. If you ask people on the street to name 5 star wars vehicles, I guarantee it would be "x-wing, tie fighter, millenium falcon, imperial walker, luke's speeder" a solid 90% of the time.

2 points here:

1. The Landspeeder is not more iconic than a Venator or Gunship. That was true from 1977-2010 but it is not anymore. 

2. An average person on the street isn't buying Lego, a young SW fan or adult collector is. If I ask a child what their fav SW vehicles are the answers would be X-wing, Tie Fighter, Falcon, Gunship, and Razorcrest. We are not in 2010 anymore, the world doesn't hate prequels as much and fans are watching the new stuff far more than the old. The Gunship's appearance in animated shows and the Razorcrests' in the Mandalorian have catapulted them in popularity with younger audiences who are Lego's primary consumer base. If you think from the point of view of a 35-40-year-old then yeah the Landspeder and Walker are more iconic but if you have the point of view of a 9/14-year-old then you realize they probably want clones and Baby Yoda. 

I don't like to site Mandr in this forum cause that brings him hate but I think his videos and comment sections are an accurate representation of how children and young adults feel about Lego SW as of late. Young kids who grew up and still watch the CW era/ Mando era material want more of those sets rather than a new TIE or walker. Yeah, they might whine and complain but that's how the average fans of any fanbase popular on the interwebs acts. 

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Edit: Never mind, my arguments will be smarter in the morning.

Ignore my stupid unedited essay in your notifications @kidtheboss611

Edited by Brickroll

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28 minutes ago, kidtheboss611 said:

1. The Landspeeder is not more iconic than a Venator or Gunship. That was true from 1977-2010 but it is not anymore. 

 2. An average person on the street isn't buying Lego, a young SW fan or adult collector is. If I ask a child what their fav SW vehicles are the answers would be X-wing, Tie Fighter, Falcon, Gunship, and Razorcrest. We are not in 2010 anymore, the world doesn't hate prequels as much and fans are watching the new stuff far more than the old. The Gunship's appearance in animated shows and the Razorcrests' in the Mandalorian have catapulted them in popularity with younger audiences who are Lego's primary consumer base. If you think from the point of view of a 35-40-year-old then yeah the Landspeder and Walker are more iconic but if you have the point of view of a 9/14-year-old then you realize they probably want clones and Baby Yoda. 

This is not really a valid comparison, at least not when it comes to the number of releases these three ships see over the years. The Landspeeder is going to get release after release because it's a recognizable (and yes, iconic) $30 set, which is the sweet spot for the "birthday present" buyer... i.e., parents who need a cheap-but-not-too-cheap gift that their kid can give to their classmate at his/her birthday party... something every parent has to buy a dozen or more times a year (and speaking as a parent, it's invariably the parent buying these gifts... so the point of view of the 35-40yo does matter here, as much or moreso than the kid's). This is a big part of the reason why the Jedi Starfighter gets released over and over, and the snowspeeder, and the batmobile, and so on. 

LEGO slots just 1 or 2 sets per year at the price point of the Venator or Gunship... while I would agree that both are overdue for a rerelease, the Gunship has seen 2 or 3 System releases already, as well as a UCS release. And the Venator's design overlaps considerably with the ISD, FO SD, and now Gideon's Cruiser... so it's never going to see frequent releases... If your expectation is that sets like these (at the top of price pyramid) will see releases as often as $30 sets, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

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42 minutes ago, Brickroll said:

Well that’s just the thing—even though there are certainly many who agree with the people on his comments, MandR’s top video has 2.3 million views—a lot, for a a relatively small time youtuber, but not nearly enough to make a dent in lego’s market. Same deal with groups like r/prequelmemes as a whole.
  

The thing is, you can’t really measure lego’s target market, (and this isn’t just directed at you @kidtheboss611, lots of people here do it) it applies to a lot of people, because they aren’t online, at least not in large enough numbers, count as a good representation of lego’s largest fan group. 
  

Also, my point earlier about rebels/solo/r1 is that they are, by technical definition, not OT and if added to the survey could change the percentage. 

 

35 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

This is not really a valid comparison, at least not when it comes to the number of releases these three ships see over the years. The Landspeeder is going to get release after release because it's a recognizable (and yes, iconic) $30 set, which is the sweet spot for the "birthday present" buyer... i.e., parents who need a cheap-but-not-too-cheap gift that their kid can give to their classmate at his/her birthday party... something every parent has to buy a dozen or more times a year (and speaking as a parent, it's invariably the parent buying these gifts... so the point of view of the 35-40yo does matter here, as much or moreso than the kid's). This is a big part of the reason why the Jedi Starfighter gets released over and over, and the snowspeeder, and the batmobile, and so on. 

 LEGO slots just 1 or 2 sets per year at the price point of the Venator or Gunship... while I would agree that both are overdue for a rerelease, the Gunship has seen 2 or 3 System releases already, as well as a UCS release. And the Venator's design overlaps considerably with the ISD, FO SD, and now Gideon's Cruiser... so it's never going to see frequent releases... If your expectation is that sets like these (at the top of price pyramid) will see releases as often as $30 sets, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Then my question is what is it. In this forum, the Lego SW market is sometimes adults and OT fans or sometimes young kids depending on the discussion or rumor of the day. IMO the market is kids for smaller sets priced at $15-$160, while the UCS/MBS models are meant for adult collectors and some young adults. While he doesn't have millions of views Mandr gets more views per SW video than his Lego counterparts and this IMO is representative of the younger generation of Lego SW fans.

From being on this forum for a while I'm gonna guess I'm one of the younger people here and so I have experienced the internet very differently from most. Most people my age (college/HS) were introduced to the internet through Youtube so for example Lego fans like myself will have similar opinions to the other people in the YT Lego SW community. My opinions on PT and CW sets will be reflected in YT videos like Mandr's or BrickWiz's. Youtube is immensely popular with young kids and they are getting online at higher rates so I think the people in YT communities are more representative of the collective than any forum ever could be. Also, this isn't an endorsement of Mandr and his fans before someone quotes me. 

I can't speak on buying for someone younger cause I buy for me but I'll take your word for it when it comes to gifting however I don't think the parents are making all the decisions on which sets to get. While parents are making the purchases I'd guess kids would make choices so if they recognize Captain Rex or Ahsoka from their favorite show then they're gonna wanna buy that set from CW and not the one from ANH that their parents think is iconic. Also in this scenario where $30 is the sweet spot, I don't see how the Lanspeeder is selling well at all-cause kids (who grew up w/clones and CW) would rather have a bunch of clones and battle droid in a BP rather than Luke, 3-PO and a speeder.

Anyway, I didn't mean to stray somewhat off topic but my larger point is still that PT sets are getting more and more recognizable and need more rep in Lego SW.

42 minutes ago, Brickroll said:

Edit: Never mind, my arguments will be smarter in the morning.

Ignore my stupid unedited essay in your notifications @kidtheboss611

Was typing when this was edited. Disregard my response to you.

Edited by kidtheboss611

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We won't ever know for sure what the market exactly wants or the data lego bases their decisiosn off of, but I'll say this: if lego's market research is supposedly always 100% correct then every line would be a successful blockbuster like ninjago and there won't be any cancelled lines like videyo.

Edited by Bobbtom

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36 minutes ago, Bobbtom said:

We won't ever know for sure what the market exactly wants or the data lego bases their decisiosn off of, but I'll say this: if lego's market research is supposedly always 100% correct then every line would be a successful blockbuster like ninjago and there won't be any cancelled lines like videyo.

Nobody thinks that LEGO's market research is 100% correct, but since nobody can think of any obvious logical reason for LEGO to release the same vehicles over and over when ones that are seemingly just as good get ignored, it seems like they must have something telling them to make some sets over others. The A-wing and the TIE interceptor are roughly equally prominent in RotJ, and they're similarly sized, so on the face of it one might expect them to receive similar coverage, but there have been seven A-wings released in the time since the last TIE interceptor in 2006. That's enough discrepancy that it's hard to believe that it's a produce of anything other than an intentional choice, and since nobody outside of LEGO gets any insight into why they might make such a choice, the best they can do is try to speculate about the data LEGO might be looking at that would produce such a skewed result. It's ultimately always pointless since we have absolutely zero ability to determine whether any given speculation is accurate, of course, but if people only talked about things that can be proven the world would be a less interesting place.

 

 

On a completely unrelated note, pictures of the next SW LEGO magazine foil pack are up on Rebrickable, and am I crazy, or is the Turbo Tank assembled backwards? I know they've got cockpits on both ends, so it doesn't really have a 'backwards' per se, but they've got the conning tower on the narrow end rather than the end with most of the guns.

Edited by Kdapt-Preacher

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