LEGO Hobbit 2014

[Krulis]

Can someone pm me pics or link to them? Thanks in advance.

[Darth Caedus]

Even though AFOLs are NOT LEGO's target demographic, I think they do their best to market their products to children like they should, but they also try to please us at the same time. They have to find a way to make both audiences happy, but when they slip up slightly with the figures, or put something little in to please their main customers ( For example, a tiny catapult) they always get torn apart by our communities.

"slip up slightly" "do their best" - sorry, no. I have no issue with catapults. The ballista is dumb but could have been forgiven. Lego has put ZERO effort into including appropriate minifigs ever since the first Hobbit wave hit. It's been a random shotgun blast where we've lucked out and scored some good figs (Gandalf the White, King Aragorn, Radagast, Galadriel, etc.) but by and large the choices have been highly counterproductive to Lego. This is not a KFOL vs AFOL issue here. Look at a couple set examples.

Mirkwood Elf Army: An overall fail because it included the wrong kind of Elves - boring green hooded ranger type. Thus, AFOLs barely army-built any. If Lego had swapped those 3 useless green elves for armored ones, AFOLs would have bought them by the truckload (myself among them). And there would be zero harm done to the KFOL interests: they're still gonna like the set since it's a cool little build, has Thranduil, orcs and wargs, etc.

Black Gate: The Mouth of Sauron is an incredibly cool character. But he should have been a Gondorian warrior. Kids would still dig the set - it's got Gandalf the White, Aragorn in his coolest outfit, an Eagle - and then Lego could release a Gondorian Warrior polybag. Switch the MoS helmet mold to a Gondorian warrior helmet mold - so simple. So very simple.

KFOL and AFOL satisfaction is by no means a mutually exclusive proposition. It worked in LOTR Wave 1. It worked in Hobbit Wave 1. But then Lego decided to drop the ball - no, not drop the ball. Douse the ball in gasoline, set it on fire and then throw it off a cliff. And here we have Hobbit Wave 3, where everything finally crashes and burns. I've outlined how simple it would have been to make everything work for both KFOLs and AFOLs - Smaug and Laketown in a $60 set with armored Bard (Lego has never cared about canon), $30 BoFA armybuilder, and big ticket BoFA set with lots of Dale structures or Erebor gates, and all the key main character leaders. It's not like Lego made anything iconic with the Erebor set - it's little more than a green turd rehash of the old Dwarves Mine. What a perfect wave that would have been - mid range affordable Smaug battle, big, awesome conflict with all the armored uber versions of the main characters, modular armybuilder expansion, and a little set for Dol Guldur with cool minifigs. 100% satisfying to KFOLs and AFOLs. AND it hits all the key BoFA movie scenes.

This is what kills me. This took me what, 10 minutes to type out? Lego designers are a team that gets paid to think this up. They have weeks and weeks to plan out the sets, the lines, the figures...and they lazily toss it together haphazardly with terrible minifig and scene distribution. And as a result, they lose out 10, 20 times the potential revenue from AFOLs. I mean, a $30 armybuilder here with 2 Armored Elves, an Iron Hills Dwarf, and some proper, awesome Dol Guldur Orcs? I know dozens of people in this thread who would have bought dozens of such a set. Instead, you have half the fandom wrinkling their nose up in disgust at Lego's pathetic output. Sigh.

I hate how many people are saying LEGO put extremely little time into their sets, or that the designers were "high", or even that the sets were done by their "accounting firm". That just...I can't stand it. It is my life's dream to become a set designer, and I hate thinking that however well I think I'll have balanced my set's figures, play features, build and appeal to both AFOLs and children alike, there are going to be AFOLs cursing my name because I didn't include one certain minifigure in the set.

They didn't balance these sets well. They didn't make builds of any great note. They generally failed to appeal to AFOLs and KFOLs when it would have been so easy to do. So yes. Until a Lego designer actually comes out and explains WHY they made the mind-bogglingly foolish, inane choices they made with (all of the Middle-Earth line after 2012, but specifically) Hobbit Wave 3, they will continue to be seen as crazy, inconsistent, and lazy creators. Lego IS a great company, and the greatest medium of tactile toys every created. So to put so little effort into set design and minifigure choices is doubly offensive.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Darth Caedus

[Deathleech]

because the Laketown set where Bard kills Smaug is a pivotal point of the movie (and book). You kind of can't set the stage for the black arrow and the Windlass without having Bard to actually do the shooting. Remember these are playsets. Not collectable figure packs. Each set lets the little kiddies play out some sort of story. Bard shooting the Dragon kind of needs Bard. They can get away with leaving Smaug out of this set as he is the big showstopper of the line, and this set is just to more or less give him something else to interact with. But if you have the black arrow you can't skip Bard.

No offense, but that kind of seems like cherry picking. So we get Bard and his black arrow in the smaller Lake-town set, but he can't use it or fight against Smaug unless you buy the $130 set? By that logic kids will also be able to afford the other bigger Lake-town set that includes Bard if they can drop $30 for the smaller Lake-town and $130 for Erebor so why have Bard in both? I mean it seems silly to include Bard and the black arrow when there literally is no dragon for him to use it against unless you buy multiple sets (and one of which is very expensive). It's made even more redundant by the fact Bard is in the other Lake-town set which I can only assume are meant to go together.

Examples of people freaking out when we first saw the cropped images of The Lonely Mountain set.

Ehh, I think they were more wondering if there was something on the left because the picture was cropped. It turned out there wasn't though, the conveyer thing just ends. I think most people still feel the set is over priced and the build is a little lacking.

They have to find a way to make both audiences happy, but when they slip up slightly with the figures, or put something little in to please their main customers ( For example, a tiny catapult) they always get torn apart by our communities. And honestly, I'm not entirely sure I like the AFOL community around these sets. With the normal LotR community, the fanbase is split between those who like the films and those who think they are terrible. Then the film fanbase is split between those who like both franchises and those who hate The Hobbit. But even with LEGO LotR and The Hobbit, which I thought had excellent sets and figures, people still get frustrated by LEGO because they do what probably makes the most sense from the business standpoint.

I think people are just frustrated. A lot of the decisions don't make any sense to us because we can't see the thought process or the reasoning behind Lego's decisions. By all accounts, why would Lego make Council of Elrond over a Witch King Battle set which could include the Witch King on Fel Beast, Eowyn, and maybe a few orcs and Gondor Soldiers? Why were no Gondor Soldiers or the Witch King in the Black Gate set? Why was there no bear form Beorn or armored elf/dwarf/orc soldiers? It's just things that make very little sense to us as costumers. Even from a kids perspective it makes little sense. Do kids really want the Council of Elrond over a Witch King Battle set with cool creatures and soldiers? I doubt it.

I think us as AFOLs give credit where credit is due. You say we tear Lego apart over little things like including catapults, but that is hardly true. Helm's Deep and Uruk-hai Army had catapults and people LOVED those sets despite the inaccuracies put in to give them play features. In fact people really loved the first Hobbit and LotR waves. It's just since then, it's as if like Lego hasn't put anywhere near the effort into these themes. While we did get a lot, the LotR line has some huge holes with an entire faction missing and two huge characters (Eowyn and the Witch King). The Hobbit line also is missing some armored soldiers and cool characters like bear Beorn, Bolg, and armored versions of the orcs/dwarves/elves. What makes all of this even more agonizing is, like Darth Caedus points out, this could have EASILY been rectified with a little more planning on Lego's part. I have said the same thing, Lego could of literally covered everything they are missing with the same set price points if they had just shifted some things around a bit.

[Mr. Cube]

The eagle in the minifig box looks weird...no eagle was shown in the box art of Orthanc and Black Gate...so I hope those sets are unfinished. There could be some another molded creature (according to PJ, there will be some big war monsters on the bad side).

[Maxim I]

Seriously, I understand you guys expect a lot of LEGO, but sometimes you really are in a bad overdrive.

Probably the sets are based on the 3 most important moments in the movie, so kids wants to buy these sets because that specific battle was so epic.

And yes, they could have slightley changed the minifigs to please the AFOLs but don't forget, the minifig still has to be a copy of the character in the movie. Kids are real experts in noticing these things...

So be happy with what you get!!

And if you aren't pleased with the sets, modify them yourself!! It still is LEGO

[Shroffy123]

Honestly these sets are great. I don't know why people are so upset about the minifig selection. People should remember that this is a licensed theme based on a movie that hasn't yet been released. And given the liberties PJ has had with the movies, we can't really expect what characters will appear and where. For example Bolg, he may not even be alive by the time of the bofa. RRemember toward the end of dos that fool was being chased by legolas so I am sure he'll pretty much be dead at the start of bofa.

[CastleDefender]

The battle of five armies set looks like battle of five minifigs...:p

[Alcarin]

The problem I have with the hate on the Bot5A set is that we only see part of it in the pictures. Everyone freaked out over the early images of the Lonely Mountain set because we only saw part of it but that turned out fine IMO. Plus the set comes with 7 figures for $50 so obviously the focus is on the mini figs rather than the build.

Focus is on the minifigs? WTF what kind of logic is that, if focus were truly on minifigs and repurchasing of the same set, we would get GENERIC troops not Bard, Legolas Azog and Thorin again........ its a crap set period!

As for discussion of Battle of the five (or six) armies.... Eagles came when the battle was nearly over!!!!!!! They are the 6th army, but their time in the battle is highly limited and they mostly chased down remnants of the orc and goblin armies...... so the 5 armies are wargs, orcs, men, elves and dwarves, the 6th army are eagles, but they came at the end of the battle, so they dont count under the battle of the 5 armies, since they came we could say, in the last 10% of the battle.......

[Deathleech]

As for discussion of Battle of the five (or six) armies.... Eagles came when the battle was nearly over!!!!!!! They are the 6th army, but their time in the battle is highly limited and they mostly chased down remnants of the orc and goblin armies...... so the 5 armies are wargs, orcs, men, elves and dwarves, the 6th army are eagles, but they came at the end of the battle, so they dont count under the battle of the 5 armies, since they came we could say, in the last 10% of the battle.......

Actually this is incorrect. The good guys were losing the battle until the eagles and Beorn showed up. The eagles were one of the big deciding factors in the battle and without them the orcs could have very well won...

[deskp]

Honestly these sets are great. I don't know why people are so upset about the minifig selection. People should remember that this is a licensed theme based on a movie that hasn't yet been released. And given the liberties PJ has had with the movies, we can't really expect what characters will appear and where. For example Bolg, he may not even be alive by the time of the bofa. RRemember toward the end of dos that fool was being chased by legolas so I am sure he'll pretty much be dead at the start of bofa.

Bolg is in the trailer at raven hill. Also its the generic soldiers we want. they have been set pretty much from the start...

___________________________

There was 7 figures we needed: Galadriel, Witch king, Elf soldier, orc soldier, dwarf soldier, Bolg and Dain....

In a wave that gave us 15 new figures. we only got 3 of those 7 we needed....

Repurposing the print and mold resources for wave 3 to better use:

new old bard print + thorin crown mold = Elf soldier Put 2 in bo5a instead of legolas and move throrin to erebor.

new hunter orc print + new orc hair = Dwarf soldier Put 1 in bo5a insetad of blue bard (he goes in laketown instead of brown bard)

new Tauriel print + old mold helmet = Orc soldier put 2 in bo5a and laketown insetad of other orcs

Dwalin print + current orc shoudler armor = Bolg (I believe his head metal would look better printed than with a strange mold) Put him in lake town set insetad of tauriel.

Galadriel

Dain

Witch king

If they had given us those 7 figs they would still have room for: Bain,Elrond,Thorin,Fili,Kili,Bard,Bilbo,Balin

new versions of brown Bard, Tauriel, hunter orc and Dwalin was unnessecary. New orc hair and thorin's crown was also unnessecary.

This is what we could of had with no additional cost to lego, had they been better at using their resources right: I would argue they would have earned more money this way!

Witch king battle : Galadriel, Elrond, Witch king

Attack on lake town: blue Bard, Bain, Bolg, 2 armored orcs (if they REALLY felt it didnt fit they could jsut put 2 orange orcs in there instead of armored ones..)

The battle of five armie: Azog, 2 elf soldiers, 1 dwarf soldier, Dain, 2 armored orcs

Erebor: Thorin, Bilbo, Fili, Kili, Balin

Edited August 14, 2014 by deskp

[Lynx]

Does anyone else also notice for each set the banner at the top for the boxart is different. For BO5A it is erebor with mist, for dol guldur it is some white glowy structure and for laketown there is the sky with some forest nearby. Also for BO5A there has to be some other threat on the other side attacking legolas and bard as the only two orcs in the set are fighting Thorin and Dain. I reckon there is something else going on on the other side with another threat, a troll? a warg? Beorn?

Legolas could be fighting Bard for all we know. If another figure was included, I'm sure it would be visible on the box with all the other figures. I'd love to be wrong and would rejoice when finding a hidden black bear in the ruins but I think the odds of this are one in a bazillion.

I can't imagine what Bard and Legolas would be doing on the other side unless they are fighting each other LOL. I reckon theres something on the other side. They don't show the wargs as figures in the tree set from 2012. maybe theres a warg or another creature they aren't showing. Maybe something partially brick built so it is too big to be a minfigure.

Good point about the warg. Wouldn't be surprised about it. I'm certain Beorn (even as a bear) would appear on the mini fig image, though. Just dreaming of those two 'creatures' in the set…. it would completely change my perception of the Hobbit wave and I couldn't wait to purchase one.

[Alfadas]

What is the reason behind TLG putting the orcs from LOTR and the first wave in the sets? Not the orange Gundabad orcs? And why not give some of the orcs the shoulder spike armor? That would have been so much better.

[Alcarin]

Actually this is incorrect. The good guys were losing the battle until the eagles and Beorn showed up. The eagles were one of the big deciding factors in the battle and without them the orcs could have very well won...

Yes they were, but the time the battle lasting before eagle arrival was far longer than after they came.......

If we shorten the battle up, its a big battle between 5 armies, that took time and time, then The ''wall'' made by 13 dwarves fell Thorin attacked Bolg (and his guards) he was mortally wounded kili and fili fell Beorn came, got angry killed Bolg got double angry, they were still losing, Eagles flew in, they killed a few things the end!!!!!

See the time of the eagles in the battle while deciding factor was limited to small, but important part..... even Beorn had more time in the battle than Eagles..... and thats why they are the 6th army, but not part of the original battle of the 5 armies.

Bats are not an army because they never had a line in the story, unlike Eagles/wargs

Edited August 14, 2014 by Alcarin

[Lynx]

You know what would fix all this ... 1 more set like MEA ... an add-on to The Battle of the Five Armies set!

2x Dwarf Warriors, 2x Elven Warriors, 2x Armored Orcs, Bolg & a structure to add to the bigger set. $30 - everyone is happy. BAM! bam-bam!!

Just to show how different people's preferences are, I would trade all of the above for Beorn in bear form.

[Alcarin]

Just to show how different people's preferences are, I would trade all of the above for Beorn in bear form.

You would trade all above for the same brown bear you can get in City theme with a few paintings?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Alcarin

[Gibbon]

Yes they were, but the time the battle lasting before eagle arrival was far longer than after they came.......

If we shorten the battle up, its a big battle between 5 armies, that took time and time, then The ''wall'' made by 13 dwarves fell Thorin attacked Bolg (and his guards) he was mortally wounded kili and fili fell Beorn came, got angry killed Bolg got double angry, they were still losing, Eagles flew in, they killed a few things the end!!!!!

See the time of the eagles in the battle while deciding factor was limited to small, but important part..... even Beorn had more time in the battle than Eagles..... and thats why they are the 6th army, but not part of the original battle of the 5 armies.

Bats are not an army because they never had a line in the story, unlike Eagles/wargs

I agree with you on that. I simply can not find a better explanation for the eagles to be left out of the Five Armies but the fact that they just arrived much later when the Five were already fighting the battle for a while. Tolkien's sentence still means to me that he did not consider the eagles to be one of the five armies.

[Lynx]

While we did get a lot, the LotR line has some huge holes with an entire faction missing and two huge characters (Eowyn and the Witch King).

Excuse me?

And if you aren't pleased with the sets, modify them yourself!! It still is LEGO

Modifying the sets is half the fun. Unfortunately, there is one thing we cannot modify using LEGO: accurate representations of licensed minifigures.

[Deathleech]

See the time of the eagles in the battle while deciding factor was limited to small, but important part..... even Beorn had more time in the battle than Eagles..... and thats why they are the 6th army, but not part of the original battle of the 5 armies.

How long they were in the battle is irrelevant, they were still a huge factor. Do we not consider the U.S. as part of WWII since they came late to the war?

Excuse me?

Well there were several others as well, but many consider Faramir a more minor character. He didn't really do anything major in the battles.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Deathleech

[Lynx]

You would trade all above for the same brown bear you can get in City theme with a few paintings?

No. I would trade all above for a black bear with new head mold (teeth and shaggy fur) and new printing. I know this may sound weird to most people. However, I'm not interested in army building outside of Lord of the Rings. For any army building, I need a good 'home base' and some attachment. Iron Hill dwarves? So Some caves just won't do it for me. Mirkwood elves? Meh - I actually prefer the unarmoured 'ranger' types. Esgaroth? Not a fan of the uniform design. So yes, I'd greatly prefer to have my favourite Hobbit character LEGOlised.

[Blazej_Holen]

The eagle in the minifig box looks weird...no eagle was shown in the box art of Orthanc and Black Gate...so I hope those sets are unfinished. There could be some another molded creature (according to PJ, there will be some big war monsters on the bad side).

Or maybe thats a new thing, to show all the minifigs and thecreatures in the set on the boxart. Lonely mountain is the same with the Smaug...

[Alcarin]

How long they were in the battle is irrelevant, they were still a huge factor. Do we not consider the U.S. as part of WWII since they came late to the war?

You are going away from the point here, the point is 5 armies fought in the battle of the 5 armies and the 6th army came in took side (they were neutral afterall) and finished the battle of the five armies...... The battle of the five armies is about five armies that fought WHOLE battle and that were wargs, orcs, men elves and dwarves..... Eagles came in and finished the fight......

Its like saying Army of the dead was the 5th army in clash (on screen) between Gondor, Rohan and Mordor, Haradrims and Easterlings....... they were the five armies battling and then Army of the dead came and finsihed the fight, eagles are equivalent of Army of the dead (on screen)

[Blazej_Holen]

The battle of five armies set looks like battle of five minifigs...:p

What did u expect in 69 Dollars set? Real five armies? Dozens of figs or what?

[Alcarin]

No. I would trade all above for a black bear with new head mold (teeth and shaggy fur) and new printing. I know this may sound weird to most people. However, I'm not interested in army building outside of Lord of the Rings. For any army building, I need a good 'home base' and some attachment. Iron Hill dwarves? So Some caves just won't do it for me. Mirkwood elves? Meh - I actually prefer the unarmoured 'ranger' types. Esgaroth? Not a fan of the uniform design. So yes, I'd greatly prefer to have my favourite Hobbit character LEGOlised.

And if you had the chance of only same brown bear with print like i said or what you wanted to trade for?

[Lynx]

Well there were several others as well, but many consider Faramir a more minor character. He didn't really do anything major in the battles.

He did something far more remarkable than killing any foe in combat: he resisted the one ring. Without Faramir, Sauron would have covered the land in darkness. I would argue that his contribution to winning the war was greater than that of Legolas, Gimli and Boromir combined.

[Alcarin]

What did u expect in 69 Dollars set? Real five armies? Dozens of figs or what?

Well i expected figures to BUILD an army, not named characters really. Its like having a set of the Avengers and in you would have unnamed soldiers.... kinda weird dont you think?

He did something far more remarkable than killing any foe in combat: he resisted the one ring. Without Faramir, Sauron would have covered the land in darkness. I would argue that his contribution to winning the war was greater than that of Legolas, Gimli and Boromir combined.

hard to say that really, afterall, without them three, the ring might've never came to Faramir......